Healing the Gut Tribe--January 2007 - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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#181 of 390 Old 01-11-2007, 11:19 AM
 
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Anyone want to weigh in here?

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
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#182 of 390 Old 01-11-2007, 02:07 PM
 
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Does anyone know if there are any studies on whether eating low levels of known allergens which don't cause obvious symptoms actually causes an immune response or not?
this is the basis of desensitization using oral tolerance and elimination diets.

one eliminates the food for some period of time. then the offending food is reintroduced - a little experimentation takes place to find the oral tolerance dosage but then the desensitization process occurs over a long period of time using that dosage. presumably, the dosage is low enough to NOT provoke an immune response.

food allergies are dependent largely on both the integrity of the gut mucosa (i.e., the lining of the gut) and the quality of the microbial flora. food allergies arise because of damage to the gut mucosa (and disruption to "gut homeostasis") and failure to achieve oral tolerance. diseases like IBS/IBD arise because of failure to achive tolerance to the microbial flora (but still a type of disruption to "gut homeostasis").

here's a real gem...
BRANDTZAEG Current Understanding of Gastrointestinal Immunoregulation and Its Relation to Food Allergy Annals of the NY Acad Sci. Volume 964, 2002, pp 13-45

abstract:
Tolerance to food antigens induced via the gut ("oral tolerance") appears to be a rather robust adaptive immune mechanism. However, the neonatal period is particularly critical in terms of mucosal defense, with regard to infections and priming for allergic disease. This is so because the intestinal barrier function provided by secretory antibodies, as well as the immunoregulatory network, is poorly developed for a variable period after birth. Notably, the postnatal development of mucosal immune homeostasis depends on the establishment of a normal commensal microbial flora and also on adequate timing and dose of dietary antigens when first introduced. In this context, breastfeeding apears to exert both shielding and positive regulatory effects. Altogether, the intestinal immune system normally seems rather fit for tolerance induction against innocuous antigens because most children with food allergy "outgrow" their problems, whereas airway allergy tends to persist.

-- inducing oral tolerance requires an intact gut lining
-- a recent Finnish study should that atopic infants had more clostridia and tended to have fewer bidifidobacteria in their stool compared to nonatopic controls
-- it appears that mixed feeding (rather than abrupt weaning) appears to promote tolerance to food proteins and avoidance of potentially harmful of cross-reactive auto-antibodies
-- cow's milk allergy is more likely to develop in infants whose mothers have relatively low levels of milk IgA antibodies (the antibodies that are specific to mucous linings of mouth through to gut) to bovine proteins; allergic mothers appear to have decreased levels of ovalbumin-specific IgA and elevated levels of Th2-promoting IL-4 in their breast milk (interleukin-4; b-cell stimulatory factor; one of the many genes involved in the cascading reactions of allergy and asthma) (Th2 part of the immune system is the allergic part of the reaction whereas Th1 responds to microbial/viral attack)

the best part of this article is (finally!) a picture of how the interaction schematically works between mama's immune system, her mammary glands, and the child. it seems to suggest that if mama's gut is compromised and her immune system fails to mount a reasonable IgA response to food antigens, then nursing baby will not receive the necessary antibodies to achieve full oral tolerance

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#183 of 390 Old 01-11-2007, 02:32 PM
 
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this is the basis of desensitization using oral tolerance and elimination diets.

one eliminates the food for some period of time. then the offending food is reintroduced - a little experimentation takes place to find the oral tolerance dosage but then the desensitization process occurs over a long period of time using that dosage. presumably, the dosage is low enough to NOT provoke an immune response.

food allergies are dependent largely on both the integrity of the gut mucosa (i.e., the lining of the gut) and the quality of the microbial flora. food allergies arise because of damage to the gut mucosa (and disruption to "gut homeostasis") and failure to achieve oral tolerance. diseases like IBS/IBD arise because of failure to achive tolerance to the microbial flora (but still a type of disruption to "gut homeostasis").

here's a real gem...
BRANDTZAEG Current Understanding of Gastrointestinal Immunoregulation and Its Relation to Food Allergy Annals of the NY Acad Sci. Volume 964, 2002, pp 13-45

abstract:
Tolerance to food antigens induced via the gut ("oral tolerance") appears to be a rather robust adaptive immune mechanism. However, the neonatal period is particularly critical in terms of mucosal defense, with regard to infections and priming for allergic disease. This is so because the intestinal barrier function provided by secretory antibodies, as well as the immunoregulatory network, is poorly developed for a variable period after birth. Notably, the postnatal development of mucosal immune homeostasis depends on the establishment of a normal commensal microbial flora and also on adequate timing and dose of dietary antigens when first introduced. In this context, breastfeeding apears to exert both shielding and positive regulatory effects. Altogether, the intestinal immune system normally seems rather fit for tolerance induction against innocuous antigens because most children with food allergy "outgrow" their problems, whereas airway allergy tends to persist.

-- inducing oral tolerance requires an intact gut lining
-- a recent Finnish study should that atopic infants had more clostridia and tended to have fewer bidifidobacteria in their stool compared to nonatopic controls
-- it appears that mixed feeding (rather than abrupt weaning) appears to promote tolerance to food proteins and avoidance of potentially harmful of cross-reactive auto-antibodies
-- cow's milk allergy is more likely to develop in infants whose mothers have relatively low levels of milk IgA antibodies (the antibodies that are specific to mucous linings of mouth through to gut) to bovine proteins; allergic mothers appear to have decreased levels of ovalbumin-specific IgA and elevated levels of Th2-promoting IL-4 in their breast milk (interleukin-4; b-cell stimulatory factor; one of the many genes involved in the cascading reactions of allergy and asthma) (Th2 part of the immune system is the allergic part of the reaction whereas Th1 responds to microbial/viral attack)

the best part of this article is (finally!) a picture of how the interaction schematically works between mama's immune system, her mammary glands, and the child. it seems to suggest that if mama's gut is compromised and her immune system fails to mount a reasonable IgA response to food antigens, then nursing baby will not receive the necessary antibodies to achieve full oral tolerance
That's a fascinating article! It scares me though because of the connection between dairy allergy and asthma.
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#184 of 390 Old 01-11-2007, 03:03 PM
 
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Hey Gut Healing Mamas. I hope you don't mind my posting my question here. I think you can help me. I've tried to read through your cheat sheet and this thread to glean some information before posting my question, but it was kinda overwhelming...so...

My younger DD seems very suseptible to stomach bugs. I started a thread about it, then I noticed your thread. Maybe some of you could chime in on how to heal her tummy and build back up some immunity in her stomach?

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=593161

Or maybe this is just normal for some kids?
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#185 of 390 Old 01-11-2007, 03:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aprildawn View Post
Hey Gut Healing Mamas. I hope you don't mind my posting my question here. I think you can help me. I've tried to read through your cheat sheet and this thread to glean some information before posting my question, but it was kinda overwhelming...so...

My younger DD seems very suseptible to stomach bugs. I started a thread about it, then I noticed your thread. Maybe some of you could chime in on how to heal her tummy and build back up some immunity in her stomach?

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=593161

Or maybe this is just normal for some kids?
okie... i posted my 2 cents worth in your thread.

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#186 of 390 Old 01-11-2007, 04:55 PM
 
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Are any commercial brands worth trying or is this something that needs to be made at home? I saw some at WF the other day (don't remember the brand, though). Which ones have beneficial bacteria? I also need to find one that doesn't contain corn derivatives like citric acid or added vitamins and things like that. Suggestions?
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#187 of 390 Old 01-11-2007, 07:04 PM
 
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Hi! I was told to check this thread out so here I am

My son (19 months old) was just diagnosed with an anaphylaxis peanut allergy. The doctor also suspects soy and dairy allergies/intolerances. He tried to do the special immuno lab test that tests for 88 different allergens, but poor DS's veins did not cooperate. So now we are doing an intensive food diary for the next 8 weeks and going back to have it reviewed. It is to include types and amounts of food plus DS's reactions - sleep patterns, behavior patterns, skin conditions, diaper rash, etc. I was thinking that I might as well do an elimination diet while we are at it - eliminate all dairy, eggs, soy, and wheat from our diet (he is still BF so I have to do it too) for 2-3 weeks and then reintroduce a group each week. Does this sound like a good plan?

What can I do during this time (and after) to "heal the gut" for us both?

I have a history of IBS since HS. I have been able to manage it with diet - more grains, fruits, veggies, etc less red meats, fats, sugars, etc and by trying to manage my stress - it definitely is linked primarily to stress for me. There is a huge family history of IBS, especially in the women on my mother's side. Plus there is a huge milk allergy/intolerance from my dad's side. Not a big fan of milk, but love cheese and yogurt.
DS has had a "sensitive system" since shortly after birth - first he reacted to the antibiotic I was on for a PP UTI - I inisisted he was reacted, only to be told no, it's normal for babies to be colicky. Two weeks later it got to the point that he went 12 hours without nursing, sleeping, and just cried and cried and cried. FINALLY they listened to me, saw him, and decided he was reacting to the macrobid I was taking, and switched me to amoxicillin, which made him feel slightly better (enough to nurse and sleep anyway) and finally kicked my UTI. But it butchtered his stomach. Resulting in months and months (until about 8 months old) of severe colic like symptoms. I treated him with gripe water and probiotics and watched my diet carefully, eliminating anything that seemed to make it "worse" - it seems that his tummy troubles have gotten "better" over time, but he (and I) are still prone to very very sensitive tummies.

We held off on introing dairy products, when he did he seemed okay with cheese and yogurt but got tummy troubles with anything else dairy. his eczema got worse over time though, then the runny nose started and hasn't stopped - "it's just from teething" I was told. The sleep disturbances and irritability, "it's just teething" the diarrhea off and on "its just teething" Finally after reading, I decided to eliminate dairy and switched to soy products. It made things worse. He ended up with worse diaper rash, diarrhea more on than off, a constant runny nose, never sleeping soundly, "its just his molars, they are always the worst" Then the ear infection that lasted almost 2 full months. After kicking twice, only to get it back within a few days (using chiropractic care, homeopathic remedies, and finally anitbiotics) I threw out all the soy in my house - it cleared up within a few days and hasn't come back since!

Since my ped is an idiot as far as I am concerned at this point, when he reacted to peanuts and she refused to even call in an epipen or get on the phone and answer a few question for this panic stricken but fairly knowledgable mama - we switched. We started with a new doctor that is ancient but wonderful. LOL He doesn't believe in vaxing, was so proud that DS is still BF, proud to hear we do organic foods, and just the doctor of my dreams at this point. He specializes in food and environmental allergies, nutritional medicine, and treating vax damaged kids.

He wants an extensive food diary to help us pin point intolerances, allergies, and nutritional concerns.

What else can I do in the meantime? what exactly is "healing the gut" - it seems like diet based and supplements like probiotics from what little I have gotten a chance to read so far, can anyone give me a quick summary or some good links?

thanks - and sorry it is so darn long!
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#188 of 390 Old 01-11-2007, 09:47 PM
 
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I'm starting diflucan today. I can't take the itchyness anymore and I don't thinkt he herbal stuff I was doing is doing a darned thing.

I'm just so sick of dealing with this nightmare. I wanna go pretend it doesn't exist.:

Sorry I'm just a downer today. DD didn't nap and I'm stressed out about our health.

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
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#189 of 390 Old 01-11-2007, 10:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sorry I'm just a downer today. DD didn't nap and I'm stressed out about our health.
Me too
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#190 of 390 Old 01-11-2007, 10:23 PM
 
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Caedmyn and Pattyla-we all have those days. Hang in there, mamas. You're both doing so great-think of how many people have no idea and let the damage just continue? I know it sometimes feels like ignorance would be bliss, but you have done so much good already.
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#191 of 390 Old 01-12-2007, 01:44 AM
 
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What can I do during this time (and after) to "heal the gut" for us both?
cutting the allergens would help in healing because you'll cut back on the inflammation. perhaps supplement with EFAs - Cod liver oil, flax seed oil, borage oil, evening primrose oil - any combination of them. some of us here require about 3g/day of EPO, so we're not talking RDA amounts of these EFAs.

some of us have had success with a variety of probiotics - either from a bottle or from homegrown cultures of kefir (cow milk, goat milk or coconut milk), yogurt, or kombucha. you might try doing some healing first before introducing these. if using probiotics from a bottle, you'll need to look for one that does not contain contaminants of the allergens you are eliminating.

i personally had success with glutamine - within a few days of use, my allergic reactions stopped completely. turkey contains natural occurring glutamine.

i think many of us are taking a whole foods vitamin C supplement, like amla or acerola.

Quote:
I have a history of IBS since HS. I have been able to manage it with diet - more grains, fruits, veggies, etc less red meats, fats, sugars, etc and by trying to manage my stress - it definitely is linked primarily to stress for me. There is a huge family history of IBS, especially in the women on my mother's side.
i just read that IBS is indicative of an imbalance in the gut with its microbial flora. probiotics probiotics probiotics.

Quote:
Plus there is a huge milk allergy/intolerance from my dad's side. Not a big fan of milk, but love cheese and yogurt.
you'll need to stay far away from dairy for at least 6 weeks to clear it out of your system. i am able to tolerate cultured dairy only - homegrown at that. though lately (9 months or so without cheese) i discovered i can tolerate some goat cheese.

Quote:
DS has had a "sensitive system" since shortly after birth - first he reacted to the antibiotic I was on for a PP UTI - I inisisted he was reacted, only to be told no, it's normal for babies to be colicky. Two weeks later it got to the point that he went 12 hours without nursing, sleeping, and just cried and cried and cried. FINALLY they listened to me, saw him, and decided he was reacting to the macrobid I was taking, and switched me to amoxicillin, which made him feel slightly better (enough to nurse and sleep anyway) and finally kicked my UTI. But it butchtered his stomach. Resulting in months and months (until about 8 months old) of severe colic like symptoms. I treated him with gripe water and probiotics and watched my diet carefully, eliminating anything that seemed to make it "worse" - it seems that his tummy troubles have gotten "better" over time, but he (and I) are still prone to very very sensitive tummies.
probiotics for ds should be on your list - again make sure that they do not contain the foods you are eliminating. call the manufacturer if you can't find easy information.

Quote:
We held off on introing dairy products, when he did he seemed okay with cheese and yogurt but got tummy troubles with anything else dairy. his eczema got worse over time though, then the runny nose started and hasn't stopped - "it's just from teething" I was told. The sleep disturbances and irritability, "it's just teething" the diarrhea off and on "its just teething" Finally after reading, I decided to eliminate dairy and switched to soy products. It made things worse. He ended up with worse diaper rash, diarrhea more on than off, a constant runny nose, never sleeping soundly, "its just his molars, they are always the worst" Then the ear infection that lasted almost 2 full months. After kicking twice, only to get it back within a few days (using chiropractic care, homeopathic remedies, and finally anitbiotics) I threw out all the soy in my house - it cleared up within a few days and hasn't come back since!
have you tried bodywork? some of us have had good experiences with craniosacral therapy. my ds responds to it particularly for constipation and for his head congestion (the former is our current problem though we initially started going for the latter).

Quote:
Since my ped is an idiot as far as I am concerned at this point, when he reacted to peanuts and she refused to even call in an epipen or get on the phone and answer a few question for this panic stricken but fairly knowledgable mama - we switched. We started with a new doctor that is ancient but wonderful. LOL He doesn't believe in vaxing, was so proud that DS is still BF, proud to hear we do organic foods, and just the doctor of my dreams at this point. He specializes in food and environmental allergies, nutritional medicine, and treating vax damaged kids.
yup - we dumped the ped and the allergist. i now have a family doc who knows what "leaky gut" means and offered to run tests if i needed them. i also added an ND to my list of practitioners (even though they aren't licensed here nor are they covered by insurance).

Quote:
He wants an extensive food diary to help us pin point intolerances, allergies, and nutritional concerns.

What else can I do in the meantime? what exactly is "healing the gut" - it seems like diet based and supplements like probiotics from what little I have gotten a chance to read so far, can anyone give me a quick summary or some good links?
there is a healing the gut cheat sheet sticky that JaneS created - it is daunting so don't hesitate to ask questions here. some suggested reading: "Breaking the Vicious Cycle", "Bacteria for Breakfast", for starters.

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#192 of 390 Old 01-12-2007, 01:27 PM
 
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nm, found what I was looking for.
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#193 of 390 Old 01-12-2007, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I keep reading that eczema can be a sign of an omega 6 fatty acid deficiency. Now I know most people's diets are too high in omega 6's, but I just wonder if DD's eczema could possibly be related to this, as nothing I've done seems to help it. Thoughts on this? And what would be a healthy nut & soy free source of omega 6's?
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#194 of 390 Old 01-12-2007, 03:31 PM
 
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And I was just wondering, on the topic of EFAs, if I should be taking evening primrose oil. All I am currently taking is CLO and very little CO. Remind me, if you will, what EPO is good for? Skin problems, among other things, I believe.
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#195 of 390 Old 01-12-2007, 09:56 PM
 
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I'm 5mths preggo and a history a bad stomach problems all my life (indiagnosed.) I've managed to control my bad stomachaches more and more with diet- haven't had debillitating pain in about a year.

However, my descending colon feels very, very bruised all the time and is getting worse as pregnancy progresses with the baby displacing it. My diet is basically whole foods- no sugar or honey. I do eat dairy. I try not to eat wheat unless it is sprouted or sourdoughed. We base most of our meals around protein and veggies (little grains- no pasta, etc.) So...that's where I've stopped. But now that I realize I have constant, chronic colon pain, I'm motivated to figure out what the heck is going on. Where do I start. I have an appt w/ a gastroenterologist, but I lack faith there- haven't taken antibiotic in years, blah, blah. Do I shell out the money for weird allergy tests or what??

Aspiring midwife-mama to 2 beautiful homebirthed boys ages 3 and 6...
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#196 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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mamalex--have you looked at the HTG cheat sheet stickied at the top of the forum? That might get you started. A couple of people with gut issues have had good success with the Specific Carbohydrate Diet. You definitely want to emphasize probiotics or probiotic foods (homemade yogurt, kefir, water kefirs, kombucha, sauerkraut, etc) and it would probably be a good idea to only eat easy-to-digest foods for a while, too (maybe eliminate grains for a bit).
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#197 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 12:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Anyone know if olive leaf extract is safe while BF'ing? Or any suggestions on other anti-fungals? CO is out right at the moment, so is garlic, GSE kills good bacteria too I guess, and OOO isn't safe for BF'ing.
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#198 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 12:44 AM
 
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There is little safety information available on the effects of herbs in breastfeeding. In general, we look at the actions of herbs to see whether the herb's action would have a negative effect on the health of the mother or baby. Some of the herbal actions that you want to avoid in breastfeeding are the following: herbs that decrease the milk supply (e.g. sage); herbs with hormonal actions that may affect your hormones and therefore your breast milk supply (e.g. licorice); herbs that are stimulating (this may cause overstimulation or sedation of the baby's nervous system or of a particular organ (e.g. bladderwrack stimulates the thyroid gland); herbs that cause digestive distress (e.g. lots of garlic); herbs that are toxic in large doses (e.g. wormwood); herbal laxatives (e.g. senna, Cascara sagrada); herbs that cause an allergic reaction in the mother.

In olive leaf, you do not want the blood pressure lowering or blood sugar lowering actions transmitted to your baby. Without any safety information on the use of this herb with breastfeeding, it may be best to avoid it because of these actions.
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#199 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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There is little safety information available on the effects of herbs in breastfeeding. In general, we look at the actions of herbs to see whether the herb's action would have a negative effect on the health of the mother or baby. Some of the herbal actions that you want to avoid in breastfeeding are the following: herbs that decrease the milk supply (e.g. sage); herbs with hormonal actions that may affect your hormones and therefore your breast milk supply (e.g. licorice); herbs that are stimulating (this may cause overstimulation or sedation of the baby's nervous system or of a particular organ (e.g. bladderwrack stimulates the thyroid gland); herbs that cause digestive distress (e.g. lots of garlic); herbs that are toxic in large doses (e.g. wormwood); herbal laxatives (e.g. senna, Cascara sagrada); herbs that cause an allergic reaction in the mother.

In olive leaf, you do not want the blood pressure lowering or blood sugar lowering actions transmitted to your baby. Without any safety information on the use of this herb with breastfeeding, it may be best to avoid it because of these actions.
I suppose considering I tend to have low blood pressure anyway OLE's probably not a good choice. Any suggestions on other anti-fungals? What's the oxygen therapy you've done with your kiddos?
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#200 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 01:30 AM
 
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Too much detoxing? This morning it seemed I was finally over the hump with this latest face rash. It wasn't completely gone, but the end was in sight. Then this afternoon/evening it appears to be coming back. : I did get a homeopathic cream to help with rashes, inflammation, etc, and it seems to be helping, thank goodness, but I did wondering if this would be my die-off? The other possibility is that I am reacting to the dairy I had today -- raw milk kefir. Goodness, I hope not.

I have been taking epsom salt baths and I am now thinking I should get pascelite clay to help sop up toxins. I now also have glutamine and EPO and more SA. Any other ideas?
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#201 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 01:49 AM
 
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Too much detoxing? This morning it seemed I was finally over the hump with this latest face rash. It wasn't completely gone, but the end was in sight. Then this afternoon/evening it appears to be coming back. : I did get a homeopathic cream to help with rashes, inflammation, etc, and it seems to be helping, thank goodness, but I did wondering if this would be my die-off? The other possibility is that I am reacting to the dairy I had today -- raw milk kefir. Goodness, I hope not.

I have been taking epsom salt baths and I am now thinking I should get pascelite clay to help sop up toxins. I now also have glutamine and EPO and more SA. Any other ideas?
What if you detoxed for a couple of days and didn't take any supplements? Any extra supplements that aren't getting used by your body have to be cleaned out by the liver and kidneys.

We create our own reality.
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#202 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 04:04 AM
 
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Too much detoxing? This morning it seemed I was finally over the hump with this latest face rash. It wasn't completely gone, but the end was in sight. Then this afternoon/evening it appears to be coming back. : I did get a homeopathic cream to help with rashes, inflammation, etc, and it seems to be helping, thank goodness, but I did wondering if this would be my die-off? The other possibility is that I am reacting to the dairy I had today -- raw milk kefir. Goodness, I hope not.

I have been taking epsom salt baths and I am now thinking I should get pascelite clay to help sop up toxins. I now also have glutamine and EPO and more SA. Any other ideas?
What about enzymes?

I've finally found supplements that are free of our allergies, so as soon as a few more arrive in the mail, we'll be doing vit C + quercetin, broad spectrum enyzme, acidophilus/bifidus, high vitamin CLO, flaxseed oil and glutamine.

About your face rash, how often do you have dairy products? Have you noticed any ill effects from dairy before?
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#203 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 04:49 AM
 
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About your face rash, how often do you have dairy products? Have you noticed any ill effects from dairy before?
I haven't had any dairy since starting the detox diet, which is now a week. I didn't really have any ill effect before that I specifically knew of, but I have wondered if my incessant nose blowing all my life is related to dairy.
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#204 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 05:34 AM
 
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I haven't had any dairy since starting the detox diet, which is now a week. I didn't really have any ill effect before that I specifically knew of, but I have wondered if my incessant nose blowing all my life is related to dairy.
When I went off dairy over a year ago, I was amazed at how my congestion cleared up. I'd lived with the phlegm so long, I thought it was normal.
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#205 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 12:54 PM
 
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I've pm'd both JaneS and firefaery about this. JaneS suggested I post here

I don't know if you've stumbled upon threads explaining our situation, but we are at the point where we're not sure what to do anymore. Dh desperately wants to put dd on a hypoallergenic formula so that I can eat again. I am going to include as much information as possible in my explanation about what's been going on. I'm wondering about Leaky Gut issues in myself, but don't know how to find out if that's exactly what's going on. There is so much information out there that it's overwhelming, and with a high-needs baby who can never be put down (I can't even sit down with her...she needs to be walked around CONSTANTLY!) I can't do too much researching at once. Basically, if you could let me know your opinions on all of this, that would be helpful. I'm going to include as much information about myself as I can, incase it makes a difference:

Let's start back to when I was a teenager...I had moderate acne and was put on antibiotics for about 2 years. They didn't help. Then I developed depression and an eating disorder and was hospitalized for anorexia for a year. I'm since fully recovered, but pretty much starved myself and ate crap (all fat free, low cal food) for about 5 years. After that, I started eating a vegetarian (mostly vegan) diet. Dairy began bothering me, so I didn't eat it anymore, was never a fan of meat, didn't eat eggs, so I was pretty much vegan for a couple of years. After starting to eat healthy foods and really loving the whole food diet I was on, my body seemed to thrive. I also started acupuncture to treat my depression and insomnia. I rarely got sick, looked great, felt good and had lots of energy, but had horrible migraines. During this time I was on birth control for a year before TTC dd. Then I get pregnant (was off the pill for 4 months) and my health deteriorates. After I stopped the pill, I started getting acne again, but it was mild. Once pregnant, the acne was HORRIBLE. Big welts all over my face, back, chest, upper arms...it was insane! It is still bad, although gone from my upper arms and chest. Around the 5th month, the eczema started on my hands and progressively got worse. My midwife (also a ND) suggested I be tested for allergies. (IgG) A bunch of things came back as positive, although cow's milk was the only really bad one. I was supposed to do a rotation diet, but didn't get any explanation or help with that and didn't know anything about it, so I just eliminated everything it said to: wheat/gluten/soy/dairy/yeast and certain fruits and spices. It was hard. I wasn't eating much and was probably lacking nutrients in many areas. This was most likely a big mistake while pregnant...I now realize that. Well, the acne got slightly better, but the eczema continued getting worse and worse. It eventually got to the point where I would wake up at night itching and have it bleeding by morning. I wouldn't be able to sleep because the itching was so intense, so I would lay awake and cry
So dd was born in September. She is high-needs and very fussy, but she would also have these bouts of screaming like she was in incredible pain. She has had horrible mucousy poops/runny/STINKY, etc. No visible skin rashes except the cradle cap. She has horrible gas, especially at night which keeps us up for about 4-5 hours at a time. She doesn't nap (20 minutes about 3 times a day...that is it!) Wakes up every 45 minutes to an hour to eat at night. We met with a kinesiologist who said dd was extremely sensitive and couldn't tolerate many things in my diet (keep in mind I was still on the restricted diet!). So I was down to organic chicken, carrots, kale, sunflower seed butter, basmati rice, yukon gold potatoes and peas. That's it. For 4 months I have been eating that. She is getting worse too. I stopped eating the chicken that was okay with her, and she slept great two nights in a row. I am so limited on protein options right now. I had salmon the past two nights and she was okay with that, but I don't want to eat salmon every night as she will grow intolerant to that too.
I had some blood tests done to see how my body was coping and turns out my liver is actually starting to produce fat for my body. My cholesterol was way too low as well. Surprisingly, my iron was okay.
My eczema is getting worse and worse and spreading down my hands. They have me on cod liver oil, a digestive enzyme, EPA and DHA and probiotics. I have been on probiotics for about 3 years now, BTW. Dd is now taking a neonate probiotic too.

So, seeing as how I have not slept more than 4 hours a night total since her birth, the days are horrible, and she is steadily getting worse and growing intolerant to the little variety in my diet, I have no clue what to do. I don't want to go to formula...I feel that will be bad for us both. But my hair is falling out in clumps, I am weak, tired and hungry. I don't know what else to do. I am starving and losing weight rapidly. I get barely 1,000 calories a day. FYI: CO gives her reflux. My only fat is olive oil, but I over do that everyday so I wonder if she's now reacting to that too :

I've read about the SCD and such, but how can I eat foods she reacts to? I don't know what to do!

If any of you have suggestions or advice, please share! We are at the end of our ropes and I fear that either dd or I will suffer greatly from what we are doing now.

I've looked at the cheat sheat, but there is just so much information and our situation seems to be kind of unqiue (can't do a rotation diet, etc.) that I don't know what to do or where to start.

Mama to DD 06' Partner to Sasa
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mum2be--the first thing that popped into my head when I read your story was "rotation diet". It sounds to me like your situation is similar to that of JaneS's DS, who reacted to everything. You could eliminate her major allergens and then come up with a 7 day rotation plan for everything else. That will allow you to eat a wider variety of foods and get more nutrients which will help both of you. I would also recommend really focusing on high-nutrient foods like meats, bone broth, eggs (assuming they're not a major allergen), homemade goat or sheep's milk yogurt if possible, and coconut milk and coconut oil. You could also try herbal infusions that are high in nutrients like nettle, red raspberry leaf, red clover, and alfalfa.

What probiotics are you two taking and what are the doses (how many billion CFU's)?
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#207 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 02:54 PM
 
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I've pm'd both JaneS and firefaery about this. JaneS suggested I post here

I don't know if you've stumbled upon threads explaining our situation, but we are at the point where we're not sure what to do anymore. Dh desperately wants to put dd on a hypoallergenic formula so that I can eat again. I am going to include as much information as possible in my explanation about what's been going on. I'm wondering about Leaky Gut issues in myself, but don't know how to find out if that's exactly what's going on. There is so much information out there that it's overwhelming, and with a high-needs baby who can never be put down (I can't even sit down with her...she needs to be walked around CONSTANTLY!) I can't do too much researching at once. Basically, if you could let me know your opinions on all of this, that would be helpful. I'm going to include as much information about myself as I can, incase it makes a difference:

Let's start back to when I was a teenager...I had moderate acne and was put on antibiotics for about 2 years. They didn't help. Then I developed depression and an eating disorder and was hospitalized for anorexia for a year. I'm since fully recovered, but pretty much starved myself and ate crap (all fat free, low cal food) for about 5 years. After that, I started eating a vegetarian (mostly vegan) diet. Dairy began bothering me, so I didn't eat it anymore, was never a fan of meat, didn't eat eggs, so I was pretty much vegan for a couple of years. After starting to eat healthy foods and really loving the whole food diet I was on, my body seemed to thrive. I also started acupuncture to treat my depression and insomnia. I rarely got sick, looked great, felt good and had lots of energy, but had horrible migraines. During this time I was on birth control for a year before TTC dd. Then I get pregnant (was off the pill for 4 months) and my health deteriorates. After I stopped the pill, I started getting acne again, but it was mild. Once pregnant, the acne was HORRIBLE. Big welts all over my face, back, chest, upper arms...it was insane! It is still bad, although gone from my upper arms and chest. Around the 5th month, the eczema started on my hands and progressively got worse. My midwife (also a ND) suggested I be tested for allergies. (IgG) A bunch of things came back as positive, although cow's milk was the only really bad one. I was supposed to do a rotation diet, but didn't get any explanation or help with that and didn't know anything about it, so I just eliminated everything it said to: wheat/gluten/soy/dairy/yeast and certain fruits and spices. It was hard. I wasn't eating much and was probably lacking nutrients in many areas. This was most likely a big mistake while pregnant...I now realize that. Well, the acne got slightly better, but the eczema continued getting worse and worse. It eventually got to the point where I would wake up at night itching and have it bleeding by morning. I wouldn't be able to sleep because the itching was so intense, so I would lay awake and cry
So dd was born in September. She is high-needs and very fussy, but she would also have these bouts of screaming like she was in incredible pain. She has had horrible mucousy poops/runny/STINKY, etc. No visible skin rashes except the cradle cap. She has horrible gas, especially at night which keeps us up for about 4-5 hours at a time. She doesn't nap (20 minutes about 3 times a day...that is it!) Wakes up every 45 minutes to an hour to eat at night. We met with a kinesiologist who said dd was extremely sensitive and couldn't tolerate many things in my diet (keep in mind I was still on the restricted diet!). So I was down to organic chicken, carrots, kale, sunflower seed butter, basmati rice, yukon gold potatoes and peas. That's it. For 4 months I have been eating that. She is getting worse too. I stopped eating the chicken that was okay with her, and she slept great two nights in a row. I am so limited on protein options right now. I had salmon the past two nights and she was okay with that, but I don't want to eat salmon every night as she will grow intolerant to that too.
I had some blood tests done to see how my body was coping and turns out my liver is actually starting to produce fat for my body. My cholesterol was way too low as well. Surprisingly, my iron was okay.
My eczema is getting worse and worse and spreading down my hands. They have me on cod liver oil, a digestive enzyme, EPA and DHA and probiotics. I have been on probiotics for about 3 years now, BTW. Dd is now taking a neonate probiotic too.

So, seeing as how I have not slept more than 4 hours a night total since her birth, the days are horrible, and she is steadily getting worse and growing intolerant to the little variety in my diet, I have no clue what to do. I don't want to go to formula...I feel that will be bad for us both. But my hair is falling out in clumps, I am weak, tired and hungry. I don't know what else to do. I am starving and losing weight rapidly. I get barely 1,000 calories a day. FYI: CO gives her reflux. My only fat is olive oil, but I over do that everyday so I wonder if she's now reacting to that too :

I've read about the SCD and such, but how can I eat foods she reacts to? I don't know what to do!

If any of you have suggestions or advice, please share! We are at the end of our ropes and I fear that either dd or I will suffer greatly from what we are doing now.

I've looked at the cheat sheat, but there is just so much information and our situation seems to be kind of unqiue (can't do a rotation diet, etc.) that I don't know what to do or where to start.
first of all, hugs to you. It sounds like things are really, really tough. I think the hardest part about all of this is that every person/child is unique, and all the research is really hard to fit in with a child needing constant attention.

Have you heard about the special foods rotation diet? You can read about it here:
http://www.specialfoods.com/rotationdiet.html

I had someone suggest it to me from these boards. I haven't actually done it yet - our case is not as severe as yours and I am trying a few other regimens first, but reading your story reminded me of it. I do think that we can create issues by just eating the same things (my dd was fine with cinnamon, and then it turned into a problem because I ate it all the time - it was the only flavor she could tolerate, so I overdid it), which makes it even harder because then you start chasing a moving ball.

My husband was pushing the hypoallergenic formula, too, until I really figured out how much it would cost (our insurance won't pay for it even with a dr. rx). And once I shared that with him, he became so much more supportive and hasn't said another word about how much I spend on supplements or time I spend researching!

Good luck!
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#208 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 05:34 PM
 
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Thanks for the support

I guess what I would like to know is, how do I know that I am dealing with leaky gut for sure?

And...

If I am, and it's ME that's causing dd's problems, would she be better off on a formula?

See, I am all for BF'ing and know that it would be very hard to give it up, but if I keep damaging her gut by eating things that she can't tolerate, how on earth is she going to start to heal?

I am taking pharmax HLC high potency powder. There are 8 billion viable cells in 1 gram, and I take 3-1/4 teaspoons a day now. She takes the same brand of the neonate with 1 billion viable cells. I dip my pinky in it and stick it in her mouth about 3 times a day.

Also, I am taking L-Glutamine and just started the L. Reuteri today after all those studies came out about colic, etc.

Mama to DD 06' Partner to Sasa
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#209 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the support

I guess what I would like to know is, how do I know that I am dealing with leaky gut for sure?

And...

If I am, and it's ME that's causing dd's problems, would she be better off on a formula?

See, I am all for BF'ing and know that it would be very hard to give it up, but if I keep damaging her gut by eating things that she can't tolerate, how on earth is she going to start to heal?

I am taking pharmax HLC high potency powder. There are 8 billion viable cells in 1 gram, and I take 3-1/4 teaspoons a day now. She takes the same brand of the neonate with 1 billion viable cells. I dip my pinky in it and stick it in her mouth about 3 times a day.

Also, I am taking L-Glutamine and just started the L. Reuteri today after all those studies came out about colic, etc.
There really isn't any way that I'm aware of to be sure, scientifically speaking, that you are dealing with leaky gut. Basically it works like this: if your gut is working properly the foods you eat will be properly broken down into their respective components and your BM will reflect that. If your gut is not working properly and is "leaky", the foods you eat don't get broken down properly and food proteins make their way into places they shouldn't be, like your bloodstream and BM. Because your DD's body isn't designed to handle BM like this, she reacts.

IMO your DD will not be better off on formula. The kids of people on this board who weaned have been worse off after weaning, no matter how poorly the child was doing while nursing. Your DD may very well react to formula, too, and then where would you be? The trick is to find a diet for you that will not keep aggravating her immune system, either by eating unusual foods that she doesn't react to or by rotating foods so that her system isn't constantly bombarded by the same foods over and over.

You may want to look at getting probiotics from www.customprobiotics.com They will probably be cheaper and much stronger than what you are taking now--1 gram of the one my DD is on contains 260 billion CFU's. How old is your DD? She should probably be getting a probiotic that only contains bifidus infantis and I know the pharmax neonate contains other strains.
She probably also needs way more probiotics than she is getting right now. My DD is getting 100 billion CFU's a day at this point.
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#210 of 390 Old 01-13-2007, 07:03 PM
 
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Thanks for the support

I guess what I would like to know is, how do I know that I am dealing with leaky gut for sure?
there is a test that you can do through genova diagnostics... costs about $65.
Quote:
And...

If I am, and it's ME that's causing dd's problems, would she be better off on a formula?
no.
Quote:
See, I am all for BF'ing and know that it would be very hard to give it up, but if I keep damaging her gut by eating things that she can't tolerate, how on earth is she going to start to heal?
breastmilk contains good things too which surpass the bad things.
Quote:
I am taking pharmax HLC high potency powder. There are 8 billion viable cells in 1 gram, and I take 3-1/4 teaspoons a day now. She takes the same brand of the neonate with 1 billion viable cells. I dip my pinky in it and stick it in her mouth about 3 times a day.

Also, I am taking L-Glutamine and just started the L. Reuteri today after all those studies came out about colic, etc.
ah. i would also add evening primrose oil... probably at least 3g per day. perhaps MSM (organic sulfur) to help strengthen connective tissue.

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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