healing the gut -- april - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 268 Old 04-05-2007, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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hola! i guess we're all so busy healing our guts that we didn't notice the month rolled over!

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#2 of 268 Old 04-06-2007, 03:17 PM
 
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Can you all recommend a liver support/cleanse product? (and where to get it)

Thanks,
Jen

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#3 of 268 Old 04-06-2007, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i think my dh is using http://www.luckyvitamin.com/015794016113.html -- his only comment was that he took it this morning and by lunchtime he was stinky despite TWO applications of deodorant (one at home this morning and then one again at work).

locally, we have an herbalist who has a line of products (Green Turtle Botanicals) and she has a liver support blend. surprisingly, it doesn't contain milk thistle though most other support blends do.

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#4 of 268 Old 04-06-2007, 11:48 PM
 
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Moneca recommends LiverLife, go over to Dental Forum and find "Chelating Mamas" thread where she posts about it. (Do a thread search it's several pages in.)

Milk thistle by itself is very good too, I like the brands Gaia or HerbPharm or Oregon Wild Harvest.
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#5 of 268 Old 04-07-2007, 12:34 AM
 
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I am just filled with questions tonight ladies.

I read through some of the older posts, and I am going to focus on the diet aspect before I start doubting/believing the NAET. So if you do SCD, can you or should you do a rotation diet with it? I am a bit confused, because SCD doesn't seem as hard to implement as the rotation diet would seem.

On to the yogurt question: when do you know that your yogurt is done? I was reading that in Europe they don't add powdered milk like they do here in the US, hence why it is runnier. One batch turned uber sour, which I have had in the past, but I am a bit more concerned with what I give a child since they are more sensitive to bacteria. I am just concerned that I will have killed off the good bacteria and let the bad ones overgrow when it goes sour? I had never had Kefir until recently, but that is what the yogurt tastes like.
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#6 of 268 Old 04-07-2007, 03:17 PM
 
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Here's an interesting link about lectins...http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...n&ct=clnk&cd=9
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#7 of 268 Old 04-07-2007, 03:19 PM
 
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I am just filled with questions tonight ladies.

I read through some of the older posts, and I am going to focus on the diet aspect before I start doubting/believing the NAET. So if you do SCD, can you or should you do a rotation diet with it? I am a bit confused, because SCD doesn't seem as hard to implement as the rotation diet would seem.

On to the yogurt question: when do you know that your yogurt is done? I was reading that in Europe they don't add powdered milk like they do here in the US, hence why it is runnier. One batch turned uber sour, which I have had in the past, but I am a bit more concerned with what I give a child since they are more sensitive to bacteria. I am just concerned that I will have killed off the good bacteria and let the bad ones overgrow when it goes sour? I had never had Kefir until recently, but that is what the yogurt tastes like.
You would probably want to start with just the SCD, and then if you think you need more or your DC reacts to many of the foods, consider doing a rotation along with that.

I think I read somewhere that homemade yogurt needs to culture at least 6 hours. The longer it goes the mor sour it will get. It should smell okay, just taste sour. You will know by the smell or taste if it is bad.
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#8 of 268 Old 04-07-2007, 03:55 PM
 
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My understanding of the Rotation Diet is that you include foods that the kids are sensitive/reactive to, but switch’em before kiddo has reactive symptom, such as eczema. If my assumption is correct, I didn't think the RD will give the bad gut a time to heal, but to leave undigested foods for yeast, parasites and bad bacteria.

SCD can be hard for people who have to do without eggs and nuts. I had to start with no eggs (but there are egg substitutes you can use for baking), along with other long list of food that we couldn't eat within the legal foods of SCD lists, such as honey and sugary fruits like ripe banana, grapes, coconut flakes, etc.

Another thing with SCD that may work in the idea of roation is that, if you cook small portions, you can always cook different things. Or, freeze the rest.

If you are trying to make SCD yogurt, it is done after incubating 24hr for cow or goat's milk. I've seen recipes (not SCD) where you add power milk to the milk, but SCD yogurt is about the probiotics and the lactose contents.

One of the main thing you can do to avoid culturing the bad guys is the temperature of the incubation, and using clean spoons, tools and cooking utensils (out of the dishwasher or boiling for 10mim.) I never questioned about other starters, but I went with Pro-Gurt since it was DF.

The home made yogurt does need to be incubated for 6hr. or so. Otherwise, it'll be runny. However, again, if you are making the SCD yogurt, you culture it for 24hr. to get the lactose out. The yogurt will turn tarter as you leave it incubated, and you will see more whey.
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#9 of 268 Old 04-07-2007, 04:17 PM
 
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Hmmm. Rotation. Maybe I could do 24 hour yogurt every 4 days and see how it goes....Off to read more about rotation.......
Thanks for the liver recs. I think I will try Herb Pharm since I have treied their formulas and it is available locally.

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#10 of 268 Old 04-07-2007, 05:47 PM
 
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My understanding of the Rotation Diet is that you include foods that the kids are sensitive/reactive to, but switch’em before kiddo has reactive symptom, such as eczema. If my assumption is correct, I didn't think the RD will give the bad gut a time to heal, but to leave undigested foods for yeast, parasites and bad bacteria.
Yes, foods are included that you are sensitive/reactive to.

That is what I thought too until we tried the 4 Day Rotation Diet. DS is having the most perfect poops now eating many foods, including grains and potatoes and sugars, and he is much much better off than doing SCD. We are doing digestive enzymes too of course, but we were also doing that with SCD as well.

The idea of healing with rotation of foods is that you are not constantly giving the same foods... so if any are causing inflammation reactions, the effects are minimized. An inflamed gut cannot allow good bacteria to attach either. Plus I think if you have a leaky gut, if you are eating the same foods all the time it increases chance of developing an allergy...especially in kids where their immune system has not matured yet.

If anyone knows the age where oral tolerance is generally reached, I'd love to know.

I now think healing goes well beyond the approach of SCD. Not that SCD doesn't make valid points. But it might not be the answer for everyone, or the answer for young kids.
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#11 of 268 Old 04-07-2007, 07:43 PM
 
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If anyone knows the age where oral tolerance is generally reached, I'd love to know.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was around 6 or 7, but I have no idea where I found that.
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#12 of 268 Old 04-07-2007, 08:01 PM
 
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An inflamed gut cannot allow good bacteria to attach either.
Aaah! I didn't know this! So the $165 probiotics I've been taking probably aren't doing anything...: : And dd's isn't either? I was under the impression that mucus in poop means the gut is inflamed. She has lots of mucus!

In other news, I just got my hair analysis results in for nutrient/toxic elements. It's all very interesting and I'm not quite sure if the leaky gut can cause high levels of these, or if high levels can cause leaky gut/poor digestion.

Anyway, here is my post about it. If anyone has any input, I'm all ears!!

Mama to DD 06' Partner to Sasa
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#13 of 268 Old 04-07-2007, 08:21 PM
 
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Aaah! I didn't know this! So the $165 probiotics I've been taking probably aren't doing anything...: : And dd's isn't either? I was under the impression that mucus in poop means the gut is inflamed. She has lots of mucus!

In other news, I just got my hair analysis results in for nutrient/toxic elements. It's all very interesting and I'm not quite sure if the leaky gut can cause high levels of these, or if high levels can cause leaky gut/poor digestion.

Anyway, here is my post about it. If anyone has any input, I'm all ears!!
Have you looked into lectins at all as a possible cause of some of your issues? I was just reading today that one of the symptoms of lectin intolerance can cause is mucus in the stool.
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#14 of 268 Old 04-08-2007, 02:17 AM
 
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I don't think it is SCD's intention to keep you on SCD for ever, but re-introduce food as your guts heals. How long you need to stay on SCD would vary depends on your condition, healing rate, compliance, family/medical history, and other variables. I can not compare if SCD is better healing than Rotation Diet since I put both of my kids on SCD, and never did RD. I think SCD should be followed in stages, in which the book seems to lack explaining the intro stage, what to look for, and re-introducing the foods and how. The book also never explains about the use of digestive enzyme, either (but the web site does, and I strongly believe you should not look over the benefit of enzymes with or without SCD.) To even go further about SCD, I don't agree with its use of honey or ripe banana in the later stage of SCD, at least. It is too high of sugar for leaky, yeasty people. You can also easily eat too much protein and baked food on SCD, too, which you definitely need to avoid. SCD is also difficult to follow because you don't know which food is legal or illegal until you look them up: It takes a while to get a hang of it. So, it'll take about three to six months to show an improvement. And, I don't have any comparison to show if RD or SCD will cure the inflamed, damaged, clogged GI better. However, I do believe your body will respond better to other treatments after your guts are healed a bit, either via SCD or any other gut healing diet.

Here is a chicken or the egg question, though. It is somewhat hard to eat the same thing everyday with SCD because you are cooking everything from scratch, and food doesn't last like it would processed food. Besides, people with yeast overgrowth should not be eating the leftovers anyway. So, do you develop allergy because you have eaten the same thing, let's say peanut butter everyday? Another words, do you develop allergy because you have 'over exposed' yourself, or you had developed a dysfunctional immune system due to a lack of digestion/absorption of other nutrients? The thing about allergy is that you can over come the allergy, or develop a higher tolerance once you strengthen your immune system/digestive sys. And, one can develop an allergy at any age. It will be depending on how strong one’s immune function is. So, how do we do that is everyone's quest here. But, I'll say one important factor here is a use of enzyme(s). I think Jane would agree to that : )

Now, with our long list of 'flair up foods,' we are talking about food sensitivities, and not allergy. I assume it can develop into an allergy, let's say, if you keep eating a lot of peanut butter everyday. I think that is not the case with SCD. I still think SCD is a good place to start. Then, you can add new foods slowly, (like, in the RD manner) after you see improvements; such as good BM.

And, here is a good thing to remember. There isn’t the one good diet that will fix all of our bad gut. It’ll be depending on how bad, and what is causing the bad GI which could include multiple causes. That is why it's a "Viscious Cycle."

So, having said that: Mum2be--I don't think leaky gut and toxicity level is caused by one or the other, but both. And, I think you need to keep working at healing the gut and bringing the toxicity level down together.

Jane: Have you looked into PRE-biotics? And, I do agree that the healing goes way beyond SCD.
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#15 of 268 Old 04-08-2007, 06:03 AM
 
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LOL, just dawned on me it's not March anymore!

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#16 of 268 Old 04-09-2007, 12:01 AM
 
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Need to sub.

We are still not having any success (I've been no wheat, dairy, egg, soy, nuts, shellfish, tomatoes and beans along with probiotics x2 qd) and dd is still having typical reaction poop.

I am starting TED first thing tomorrow (wanted to make it through Easter dinner first). Just curious if anyone has any ideas when we might see an improvement? With wheat it tooks us right around a month before I saw the major, major turn around. I was going to do TED x2 weeks and then starting adding in 1 food at a time q 4 days...but was wondering if maybe I should try for longer? For those of you who have done this, how long did it take to see an improvement?
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#17 of 268 Old 04-09-2007, 01:41 PM
 
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Some interesting thoughts on food allergies vs. food chemical sensitivity from this website: http://wisewitch.blogspot.com/search...max-results=50

There's a ton of interesting info on this blog if you have some free time.

" Some time ago I mentioned briefly that the only way to diagnose food allergies correctly is to use skin prick tests and blood tests, and that even these methods have problems. I want to expand on the problems a bit more.

The problem with skin prick tests is they just measure the redness of the skin when a food or chemical has been applied to it. This means that if you are given a skin prick of something that stimulates a histamine release or contains histamine, your skin will respond by reddening. Skin prick tests can therefore be dangerously misleading.

For example, if you are sensitive to salicylates, you may respond with a reddening of the skin when high-salicylate plant foods (such as spinach, tea, asparagus) are tested on your skin.

Serotonin can also stimulate inflammation, so if you are sensitive to serotonin, you may experience the same thing from various foods such as cheese, bananas, or beans.

Sensitivity to histamine will obviously result in skin reddening when things like beans, some cheeses, fish, or aged meats are tested on the skin.

Sulphites, folic acid, and a number of other food chemicals, vitamins, and minerals stimulate histamine release. Lectins in wheat, beans, potatoes, and various other plant foods also stimulate histamine release. You may react to these chemicals.

If you have high histamine levels to begin with and are prone to urticaria, you are likely to react to having your skin pricked in and of itself, whether food chemical irritants are added or not.

This means that you will be diagnosed with "allergies" to various random foods, when in fact you are not experiencing an allergic reaction at all, but food chemical sensitivities.

We know from the RPAH data that the majority of food reactions are actually caused by non-allergic food chemical sensitivities. The only way to correctly determine whether you have a genuine food allergy is to perform a specific, quantitative blood test of IgE levels when challenged. Immunoglobulin E is a subclass of antibodies produced by the immune system.

To complicate matters further, high histamine levels can actually raise IgE levels. This is why it is important to establish a baseline while one is not reacting to anything.

To clue you in to whether you are actually experiencing a genuine allergy or food chemical sensitivities, an allergy will usually be distinct and to only one or rarely two foods. Food chemical sensitivities will usually appear as multiple positive skin prick test results from different species, genera, or family - such as a test with positives for peas, asparagus, and beef."
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#18 of 268 Old 04-09-2007, 01:58 PM
 
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Writing a food journal is recommended for checking any food allergy/senstivities. This may also give you a clue for other health condition.
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#19 of 268 Old 04-10-2007, 09:13 PM
 
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hi everyone, a friend of mine is having trouble, so i thought i'd run things by you all.

her ds2 (3rd child) was fussy from birth, never went to sleep nursing, and spits up "flourescent green" (?bile), copious amounts. she eliminated wheat and dairy from her diet ~2mos ago (but using spelt for homemade bread/noodles, and recently bought a goat, so she's now adding in a bit of raw goat milk), and he improved a lot (can be put down a bit, can nurse to sleep, doesn't cry all day). they "homestead," so eat mostly whole foods (lots homegrown, including chickens, have a cow and now a goat and get local meat ?grassfed, etc.), home cooked, homebirth, no vax. when their cow went to get bred, they started to buy milk from the store, and the 2.5yo dd went back into diapers and got a bit of eczema, so she's a bit "atopic" as well. i think her dh had a history of eczema, but she hasn't had any indications of problems herself, although giving up wheat/dairy was excruciating, so maybe not as ok as she thought. i think baby is not eating yet, but scrounges from the floor (crawling since 4.5mos), and reacted very badly last month to eating a cheddar bunny he found, so all wheat is now banished from the house.

i suggested probiotics for all, trying to make kefir with the new goat's milk if she adds it back in, and mineral supplements. not sure if she's followed up, as $ are a big issue. she does keep him upright when carried (mostly on her back).

she's read up recently on reflux, and is getting worried because she saw that some babies deal with reflux by eating constantly and get big (which hers does/is), rather than the "failure to thrive" type. she's worried he may get "permanent damage" from the reflux if she doesn't get him on meds (?prilosec), but she's very western med averse, treats most things homeopathically, and her homeopath (not near her: she's in the boonies in the midwest) has been unavailable.

any thoughts i can pass on to her? links, especially, and are there options besides drugs? which supplements are most effective?

TIA!

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#20 of 268 Old 04-10-2007, 09:39 PM
 
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About eating the same foods and developing an allergy--- Reading NandPD there were groups that had dairy everyday (for example) so it seems like you could eat the same food everyday as long as you had a healed gut.

I am thinking of rotating in 2 of my allergy foods-dairy and eggs. I would only do dairy in the form of 24 hour yogurt though. I am trying to add more variety to my diet also. I cannot have gluten/wheat so I got some amaranth and buckwheat to try out so I don't overdo the brown rice. Along with some canned wild salmon and herring so I don't just eat chicken and beef. (I also got some pastured chicken livers!!) My inflammation in my joints seems to keep decreasing and my overall health inceasing even though I ate chocolate on Easter . I just added 1t of butter oil a day for the anti-stiffness factor, ginger for inflammation and Herb Pharm Garlic for anti-fungal.

Off to read about digestive enzymes!
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#21 of 268 Old 04-10-2007, 09:48 PM
 
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newcastlemama: I'm assuming you are aware of night shade veg with joint inflamation.
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#22 of 268 Old 04-10-2007, 10:02 PM
 
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newcastlemama: I'm assuming you are aware of night shade veg with joint inflamation.
Yep. Though I am not sure if taking those out has helped or the other stuff.

Do you have a good place to buy enzymes? I am interested in Houston Peptizyde and a protese one.

Thanks,
Jen

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#23 of 268 Old 04-10-2007, 10:37 PM
 
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I know what you mean by : I like to do one thing at a time, in stages. This is what I did for my gut. I took probiotics first thing in a morning, then Candadese (the same company of Candix, different dose,) and ViraStop three times a day between meals while I was detoxing (are you with me, so far?) By the time my accute sy of yeast was gone, I went with the Intro stage of SCD to get back on SCD fully.

Now, I am on Digest with meals and take fish oil, Vit C, CoQ10, garlic (cap and raw on my green salad with flaxseed oil), green juice, lots of lemon water, herb tea, etc.

This was for me to get my constipation out of the way, and get the regular BM, which I am now.

I keep food diary of when I took what, to avoid eating food with Candix, or take probiotics with enzyme, etc. I know it is : , but I thought I would write what I did, so you can compare.

You may also want to read "Complete Candida Yeast Guidebook" by Jeanne Marie Martin, if you haven't.
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#24 of 268 Old 04-10-2007, 10:39 PM
 
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Oh, about the enzyme; I bought Huston's from original source. We did not do well w/ Huston's, so my kids and I are on Enzymedica. I buy it from anyone who has free shipping.
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#25 of 268 Old 04-10-2007, 10:40 PM
 
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Thanks greencat! I just erased my post because I decided to do:
1) Liver detox for about a month because I already have the Milk Thistle and my Naturopath thought this was important for me.
2) Candida Issues probably with Candex
3) Any food sensitvity issues after that with with peptizyde.

It can get crazy in my supplement cabinet! I am alo trying to use prationers as little as possible and try and figure it out myself so I can afford the supps!

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#26 of 268 Old 04-10-2007, 11:42 PM
 
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[U] am trying to add more variety to my diet also. I cannot have gluten/wheat so I got some amaranth and buckwheat to try out so I don't overdo the brown rice. Along with some canned wild salmon and herring so I don't just eat chicken and beef. (I also got some pastured chicken livers!!)
millet is also good for variety. it cooks up like rice, about 1c millet to 2.5c water. my kids like it, too, more than the buckwheat. we rotate breakfast: eggs, oats, buckwheat, millet, and occasionally grits/polenta (corn) if we haven't had a lot of other corn products recently. we also eat millet as a dinner grain, to rotate with rice, barley, cassava (the root they make tapioca from, aka "yuca" to latinas) and potatoes/sweet potatoes. dh is indian: it's hard to skip rice around here, especially since we use rice pasta (tinkyada/TJ's).

i've never been very successful getting anyone to eat amaranth, unless i mix it with other grains or put sugar (=maple syrup/honey) on it. but then i'm not much of a cook. got any tasty amaranth recipes to share?

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#27 of 268 Old 04-10-2007, 11:47 PM
 
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I have never had amaranth. I have it soaking on the counter and I was going to ass coconut oil, nuts, flaxseed, ect for breakfast. I can't have millet, but thank you for the suggestion...I reacted to many grains on my blood test.

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#28 of 268 Old 04-11-2007, 02:10 AM
 
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I tried millet once, and it tasted like yuck to me.

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#29 of 268 Old 04-11-2007, 04:31 AM
 
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Millet is kinda strange: cook too much it is mushy, too little and it is crunchy. But you can make a fabulous coconut millet pudding out of it. Give it another try, I think they are so different from what we are used to eating that it might just take time to adjust to it.

Amanrant was too small and grainy, not good for my DS until he gets older.

I LOVE quinoa, both the white and red kind. Easy to cook, and picks up flavors pretty well.

All these grains + removing all wheat/traditional flours/carbs has pretty much fixed my DH's GI symptoms, but his eczemas is whole other story...hence why I am so thankful for ALL the wonderful help on this forum.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greencat View Post
This is what I did for my gut. I took probiotics first thing in a morning, .
What did you take specifically? I am curious because I had a LONG discussion with our pediatrician about the Jarrow probiotics -- she is a fan of them, even though I and I think JaneS? didn't have good experiences with them.

Did you do any testing before you went with a certain product?
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