HTG - Healing the Gut September/October 07 - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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#181 of 254 Old 10-18-2007, 11:54 PM
 
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Papaya and pineapple do have alot of enzymes, and raw food in general has a ton more than cooked food. Unfortunately, eating fruit with any other food group is not helpful to your gut. And to be sure you're getting everything you need to process the variety of foods in our diet it helps to use a supplement. I like the Rainbow Light EnzyMend. It has the wide range of different specific enzymes plus healing agents and helpful herbs.

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#182 of 254 Old 10-19-2007, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by mtn.mama View Post
Unfortunately, eating fruit with any other food group is not helpful to your gut.
why not? do you have a source i can read?

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#183 of 254 Old 10-19-2007, 02:00 PM
 
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I don't have a specific source that you can read, but it was my chiropractor who turned me on to the concept of food combining so I'll ask him today if he has a source to recommend... The idea is that your gut cannot properly breakdown more than a couple food groups at a time. Basically you can successfully combine protein and veggies, or starch and veggies, but not protein and starch. And fruit is to be always eaten alone.
L

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#184 of 254 Old 10-19-2007, 02:10 PM
 
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the suzanne sommers diet speaks of food combining.

You could check her website.
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#185 of 254 Old 10-19-2007, 03:34 PM
 
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I take Rainbow Light prenatal vitamins as a recommendation from my old acupuncuturist in Hawaii. I'll check out their enzyme supplement.

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#186 of 254 Old 10-20-2007, 01:06 PM
 
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My issue with eating fruit alone is, what about the blood sugar problems that would cause? I have been told that because I have blood sugar issues, I should always eat protein every time I eat. Under food combining, this would mean I could never eat either starches or fruit. That sounds pretty limiting to me.

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#187 of 254 Old 10-20-2007, 01:23 PM
 
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I'm not a doctor or nutritionist and I don't have any reference other than my own brain for this so take it for what it's worth. My thinking on eating fruit is that it won't cause the spikes and crashes and blood sugar issues like desserts or processed carb foods would because you get all the fiber and water that naturally occurs with the fruit when you eat the whole thing. I have been told I may have blood sugar issues. It seems to depend on which doctor I talk to. I don't necessarily buy the idea that a natural food like fruit is a bad thing like they say. I really think it's more the processed and refined stuff that's really bad.

Do you check your blood sugar levels? If you do, maybe you could do your own experiment if it's not too dangerous. Eat some fruit alone as a snack and check your sugar levels at an hour and 2 hours. What I've noticed for myself is that when I take those glucose tests at the doc's office, my sugar levels are too high, but when I eat a regular meal or natural fruit or foods at home my sugar levels are always low. Makes me wonder how accurate the glucose test really is.

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#188 of 254 Old 10-20-2007, 02:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mtn.mama View Post
I don't have a specific source that you can read, but it was my chiropractor who turned me on to the concept of food combining so I'll ask him today if he has a source to recommend... The idea is that your gut cannot properly breakdown more than a couple food groups at a time. Basically you can successfully combine protein and veggies, or starch and veggies, but not protein and starch. And fruit is to be always eaten alone.
L
I have issues with food combining...the groups that Dr. Price studied didn't do food combining

And fruit alone does cause blood sugar issues for me if I don't eat something soon after (like in a hour or less usually).
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#189 of 254 Old 10-20-2007, 05:40 PM
 
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Dannic, this sounds very similar to an elimination diet I did last month from "The False Fat Diet". I felt really good on it, after the first 4 days or so of feeling horrible (some people call this die-off?) but when I got my food allergy test back and had so few reactions, I sort of abandoned it and didn't follow through on food challenges and such. I think I'm going to go back on the elimination diet and then start over with food challenges. I'm sad that I may have to give up dairy, but I'm going to give homemade raw yogurt a try. I've read about 24-hour-cultured yogurt that's supposed to be better?

What extra flora did you take? What's gse? I'm taking a cleanse formula ("Multi-Cleanse") and a fiber supplement called Super Seed which has lots of probiotics (although I left it in my hot car for a few hours on the day I bought it, so who knows if the living goodness is still living) along with CLO/BO and prenatal vitamin. I want to do this right this time. Thanks for the help!
Oh, sorry it's been so long! (Limited Computer TIme)...GSE is grapefruit seed extract. I really dont recall which flora I took then...now, I get all my supps from my nutritionist at Optimal Health Systems, but am looking to begin making my own yogurt if I can figre out a non-dairy/soy way to do so...I really think a HUGE thing is to severely restrict--ELIMINATE-- all sugars, esp refined and dairy (lactose) which is what yeasts feed on. This is also hard because of the addictive nature of sugars and dairy proteins as well. I've found _THe Diet Cure_ and _The Mood Cure_ both by Julia Ross to be helpful in my general quest for health. The Diet Cure goes into yeasts, specifically. IMHO, unless one changes their eating habits, they'll just fall back into the trap, eventually. Hence, why I am here...:

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#190 of 254 Old 10-20-2007, 05:59 PM
 
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An update on my family...I've been wondering if our yeast issues have caused all the food sensitivity issues for dd...I didn't realize how yeasty she was! (And myself) It's been really easy in some ways and so HARD in others! It seems we do well at home, but out and about is hard as dd doesn't understand why everyone else is eating what she wants and can't have. Even with substitutes, she can tell the dif. And with a nb, it's hard to go shopping but DON"T RUN OUT OF GROCERIES!!! I've been making lots of soups and I'm looking into making yogurt. I'm lloking for an infant/toddler probiotic source that is dairy, gluten, soy, ect free for the girls and another for my husband and I. Finally, I 'll have the $ to get everything this week!
My infant dd has some excema splotches on her elbow and thighs...sigh.
But I feel like just knowing that we are yeasty gives me a better point of reference!
I'm a bit worried about Thanksgiving and Christmas with the families...somehow I think I'll be making a duplicate meal to take...
So, HTG and Holidays...I've gone thru it before (eliminating dariy and sugar) but never with children.
I'm doing lots better, but dd is still very up and down. And if I could just get rid of those dark circles under her eyes COMPLETELY, it'll so be worth it!

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#191 of 254 Old 10-20-2007, 07:49 PM
 
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Are the dark circles a sign of yeast? I read it was a sign of allergies in general.

I'm having a real hard time cutting out all sugar. I can do without the bread and pasta and rice. No big deal. But I want something sweet so badly! I was searching my cupboard for anything I could put some honey on after dinner tonight.

I'm also trying to find a dairy free yogurt recipe. I found on the SCD site recipes for goat's milk yogurt, which is supposed to be better than cow's milk for various reasons, and also some nut milks. I'd like to make mine with coconut milk, if that's at all possible. I'm still trying to make a chicken stock, though, so probably won't get to the yogurt for a while.

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#192 of 254 Old 10-20-2007, 09:09 PM
 
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No, you're right. The dk circles are from allergies, which we're trying to eliminate. But I'm sure the candida doesn't help-and adds to- the problem. BOth books by Ross give a list of supps that aid with sugar cravings. I'm actually going to buy both just as soon as I have the $. I borrowed both from the library...

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#193 of 254 Old 10-20-2007, 11:18 PM
 
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Yeah, I can't buy anything right now, either. My ds just got those circles under his eyes in the past week. Never had them before. I checked the pollen levels in our area and grass and weed are both moderate. I've learned since moving here that I'm allergic to both of those. I've been having symptoms the past few days, probably because 2 at moderate is like 1 at high. I'm hoping to get some local, raw honey to help with that.

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#194 of 254 Old 10-21-2007, 02:10 PM
 
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Yeah, I can't buy anything right now, either. My ds just got those circles under his eyes in the past week. Never had them before. I checked the pollen levels in our area and grass and weed are both moderate. I've learned since moving here that I'm allergic to both of those. I've been having symptoms the past few days, probably because 2 at moderate is like 1 at high. I'm hoping to get some local, raw honey to help with that.
We love raw honey...how does it help?

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#195 of 254 Old 10-21-2007, 03:51 PM
 
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It has to be raw honey local to your area. My grocery store sells raw honey but it's from Iowa so it does me no good with allergies in North Carolina. I'm not exactly sure how it works. It has something to do with the bees carrying pollen from local plants. Maybe it's sort of like a homeopathic thing. Since you ingest small amounts of the pollen in your area from the raw honey, it helps your immune system handle it better.

My mom's boyfriend raises bees. He told me one year he lost all his bees so had no honey. He had the worst allergies ever that year. Usually, when he has plenty of his own honey to eat he has very minimal allergies if any at all.

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#196 of 254 Old 10-21-2007, 07:17 PM
 
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That's interesting. Ours is local, yay.
It really is so frustrating to be wanting to do everything and have to wait on cashflow, eh.

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#197 of 254 Old 10-21-2007, 11:49 PM
 
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hi, just joining this thread. ds is 16 mos and is allergic (gets face (and sometimes torso) rash) to eggs, milk, and beef, and gets the rash when i eat eggs and beef and bf him (but not milk). SIL told me to google "gut healing" to help him heal and hopefully outgrow these allergies, so here i am.

i've done a few hrs of reading now and have gotten the idea that i at least should be eating some probiotics of some sort, and possibly that he should, but it's not quite clear to me which, how often, how much, how to make sure they haven't got any milk (which he reacts to) in them if he needs to take them, whether he should be taking any or will somehow "get" them from me, or what.

i've read through the "healing your gut tribe" sticky and it's kinda greek to me; can someone help me with a crash course for someone who's never heard of this stuff before? FWIW, we eat lots of fruits and veggies, mostly organic, don't eat much processed stuff, and don't restrict meat or grains or sugar (we do use unrefined sugar, though, and mostly whole grains).

feel free to pm me if you feel like "idiot's guide to gut healing" doesn't belong here.

tia!!!!!!
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#198 of 254 Old 10-23-2007, 01:13 PM
 
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I"ve just been reading a little bit more about traditional foods on this site and the Weston A. Price site. Now I'm thinking I should give my kids who can drink cow's milk whole milk instead of skim or fat free. I still have not been able to find any raw milk in my area. Is organic, pastuerized whole milk better than nothing or should I just not bother with milk at all if I can't get it raw? Also, is it possible my BF baby could tolerate my consumption of cow's milk if it's whole instead of fat free?

On a slightly other note, I am now very disturbed and upset with the Weston A. Price Foundation for their comments on breastfeeding. They seem to take the position that it's better for our babies to feed them homemade "formula" from our milk with some added nutrients in a bottle rather than nursing them directly from the breast because the American diet is so deficient. : I could understand if they said, if you are going to bottle feed, use your breastmilk, but that's not what they appear to say. I could also understand strongly encouraging women to eat a more nutritious diet for thier breastfeeding baby. I just can't believe that any reputable organization would promote bottle feeding of any kind rather than breastfeeding. :

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#199 of 254 Old 10-23-2007, 01:40 PM
 
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Me again. Can you all tell me more about sprouted or fermented grains and breads? I really don't have the time to try this myself yet. How do I tell if I'm getting the right stuff at the store? If it says sourdough bread, is that enough or does it have to say something special?

I'm sorry. I keep thinking of more questions. Can I buy regular oatmeal from the grocery store and soak it overnight to get this effect?

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#200 of 254 Old 10-23-2007, 08:00 PM
 
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I found a place where you can get free sourdough starter. Carl's Friends

I got some mason jars so I'm ready to start trying to make my own fermented vegies. Wish me luck.

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#201 of 254 Old 10-23-2007, 10:02 PM
 
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MarineWife: I know what you mean about WAPF's stance on bf. I have great respect for Sally Fallon and all that she has to say, but she has tweaked a lot of people (including me) with her anti-bf stance. I heard that she had a difficult time bf'ing herself. I have no idea if that's true, but if it is, I can see how her personal experience might get in the way of sound advice. Still, I think you'd have to be crazy to say that any kind of formula is better than bf'ing!!! There's so much great info from WAPF that when something like that really tweaks me, I just set it aside as NFM - Not For Me!

Dannic: Thanks for the response. I feel so confused at this point that I've gone back to the Health Recovery diet prescribed by Sally Fallon and Mary Enig in "Eat Fat Lose Fat". I'm actually doing okay so far, although I suspect the cow's milk still isn't great for me and I keep using it because my sensitivity is manifesting an addiction. My plan is to go solely on goat's milk eventually, but the milkshare I found only has cow's milk until January or so. Maybe I should just scratch milk altogether for a while? I can still buy goat's milk yogurt and cheese. Thoughts?

I just got turned on to a naturopath in town that does Nutritional Response Testing (muscle testing for foods, basically) so I'm hoping to get some very clear-cut answers from him. We'll see.

It seems like when I eat wheat (only sourdough bread, really) I tolerate it better when it's with fat. Does anyone else experience this?

Sorry, I'm babbling now. Dannic, I'll check out the books you recommended. Hopefully my library will have them. Thanks again!

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#202 of 254 Old 10-23-2007, 10:44 PM
 
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Hi there, I hate to change the subject but I feel I need a little remedial help. Feel free to just pm me if you feel this is a hijack. I've also posted in the allergy forum, but so far no replies...

I'm trying to understand the connection between gut microflora and allergies. I've read quite a bit here, including the HTG cheat sheet and Traditional Foods stuff, but I'm still not quite clear on how it all works. Maybe if I spent a lot more hours reading I would finally get it, but right now my head is spinning.

What I do understand (but correct me if I've got it wrong):
As the theory goes, allergies can be caused by leaky gut syndrome, where bits of (undigested?) food escape through small openings of the lining of the gut which exist due to an imbalance of microflora. These particles are absorbed into the bloodstream, and the immune system interprets them as foreign invaders and mounts a counterattack which is manifested by allergic symptoms such as (in our case) eczema.

What I don't understand:
1. How does gut microflora imbalance cause the openings of the wall of the gut?
2. Is this gut permeability the same as that which exists in an infant under six month, whose gut has yet to "seal up?" So are we saying that normally, a baby's gut would be sealed by six months or so, but some of them aren't, due to the microflora imbalance?
3. I know that gut permeability is the reason the mainstream now advises delaying solids till 4 to 6 months (which I know from our perspective is still very early), instead of sending babies home from the hospital with cereal in their bottles like they used to. Now, almost everyone agrees that the early introduction of solids can lead to food allergies. But am I understanding correctly that damage to the gut can occur at any age, and it isn't necessarily caused by early introduction of solids?
4. And while we're on the topic of introducing solid foods, I know there are some here who believe rice cereal is the evil of all evils. I'm not saying I disagree, but just wondering if someone can explain a little more about why it's evil. Does it cause gut damage?
5. How is candida/yeast related to all of this? If we had a candida problem, would we for sure be seeing yeast rashes / yeast infections, or could it be an underlying cause of eczema even if we don't have the other symptoms? (for the record I've never had a yeast infection, despite occasional courses of antibiotics growing up and I think quite a bit of antibiotics during/after both childbirths, first time related to HELLP syndrome and second time because I was GBS positive :---but DS1 did have what I believe was a yeast-related diaper rash around 6 months and BOY was it nasty...)
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#203 of 254 Old 10-23-2007, 11:20 PM
 
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I know one way that leaky gut can happen is if you have yeast overgrowth, and the yeasties burrow through your intestines and that makes holes. Also, it can happen from the toxins the bad buggies cause, that erode your intestinal lining. I know, too, that food sensitivities can actually cause it -- but I'm not sure under what circumstances.

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#204 of 254 Old 10-24-2007, 02:13 AM
 
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ChilliePepper: Two books that I highly recommend for understanding what you are asking about are Bacteria for Breakfast and Digestive Wellness for Children. Bacteria for Breakfast really goes into the science of the connection between intestinal health and immune response.

As for your questions (according to my understanding so take it as you will):

1. Microflora imbalance means that the parts of the immune system that function in the gut will not work correctly. Thus, if the microflora is imbalanced, it gives the chance for pathogens to grow and flourish- yeast, bad bacteria, and/or parasites. It is these pathogens that eat holes in the intestines. My DD had a c. difficile infection that did it to her.

2. I think the main difference in gut permeability from imbalance versus an infants is that an infants gut is permeable due to natural processes and specifically so mom's immunoglobins can get through. So how the gut is permeated may be different. Yes, normally an healthy infant would have a sealed gut but some don't due to medications or mom's gut problems that are passed on through breastmilk.


3. Gut damage can happen at any age. As for introducing solids, if you introduce before baby is ready then it can shift their gut flora unfavorably and they can be invaded by bad bacteria/yeast/ and/or parasites. Undigested food ferments in the gut and when it does this it feeds the bad bacteria rather then the good, which leads to a snowball of problems. Which leads into #4

4. Rice cereal is looked upon as "evil" because humans do not make amylase until the age of 2 (amylase is the digestive enzyme that would digest the rice). Thus, rice can ferment in the gut and lead to the unbalance again that allows bad bacteria to grow. Rice is also very high in phytase which is an nutrient-inhibitor that blocks the absorption of nutrients in the gut (I know zinc is one of them and there are others). Since my oldest DD has had so many gut problems we are avoiding all grains for a while, and will start with fermented grains (I'm thinking amasake), and then with grains that have been soaked to reduce the phytase. Breastmilk also contains amylase so I'd suggest mixing grains with breastmilk if you do feed them.

5. Yes, it is possible to have yeast without clinical symptoms of a yeast infection or thrush. If you are concerned about this I'd suggest having a comprehensive stool sample done to check for yeasts/bacteria/parasites all at once. Then you'll know what you are fighting. The treatments for the different overgrowths are different. For example, many here follow the Simple Carbohydrate Diet, but for my DD's c. difficile infection the Simple Carbohydrate Diet does not work. We had to treat her with a super strong probiotic (VSL#3) and she went from having eczema over 95% of her body (that oozed and scabed) to being almost 100% clear within a month.

Hope that helps and isn't just more confusing :

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#205 of 254 Old 10-24-2007, 07:13 AM
 
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Tempestjewel, thanks for sharing. This helps a lot. I hope you don't mind me quoting you in the allergy forum. I'm impressed with your success with clearing dd's eczema! I wonder if we should try the probiotic you mentioned? Or would it only be appropriate for someone recovering from a c. difficile (never heard of it) infection?

My kids' eczema is (so far) not too severe. It sticks mostly to the areas on the ankles and feet, behind the knees, and in the crease of the elbows. When I read the posts from so many folks who deal with almost full-body coverage and weeping, oozing patches, I count my blessings. At the same time, I sure would love to get to the bottom of why we have it in our family, and give my boys the gift of clear, itch-free skin! Especially since it has seemed to disturb ds2's sleep lately.

I am also beginning to venture into traditional foods, particularly culturing raw milk, but it's slow going for me because it's hard to find the time and money to buy the raw milk.

Thanks...
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#206 of 254 Old 10-24-2007, 08:40 AM
 
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tempestjewel: We have just found out that my son has c. difficile and we opted to begin with flagyl and s. boulardii. His manifests in loose stools and I just panicked and did the flagyl.
I am wondering about retesting the stool. When did you do it after doing the medicine? I am also considering testing for yeast and basically anything else under the sun just to be sure what we are dealing with.
I am going to get Bacteria for Breakfast TODAY and look into the Digestive Wellness for Children.

Thanks in advance for you expertise!

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#207 of 254 Old 10-24-2007, 02:54 PM
 
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tempestjewel ~ thanks so much for that in depth explanation. i especially appreciate the explanation on infant rice cereal and amylase. i never knew that but now i have one more reason in my arsenal for not using it when anyonr asks.

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#208 of 254 Old 10-24-2007, 02:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by brookescott88 View Post
tempestjewel: We have just found out that my son has c. difficile and we opted to begin with flagyl and s. boulardii. His manifests in loose stools and I just panicked and did the flagyl.
I am wondering about retesting the stool. When did you do it after doing the medicine? I am also considering testing for yeast and basically anything else under the sun just to be sure what we are dealing with.
I am going to get Bacteria for Breakfast TODAY and look into the Digestive Wellness for Children.

Thanks in advance for you expertise!

Brooke
C. difficile often comes back with conventional treatments (like more then half of all cases return and can become chronic). Just a warning. It can take up to 6 months to clear from stool tests, so we are waiting the full 6 months to retest for the toxins. The S. Boulardii should help (we used this too), but I full-heartedly recommend VSL#3 for treating it if you want it to clear forever. It would help stop the diarrhea too. In the book Bacteria for Breakfast this is the product that the author used to treat her son's c. difficile infection, and it worked for my DD as well.

The cheapest place to get VSL#3 that I've found is straight from the manufacturer. They ship 2-day UPS for free with ice packs (so it does not lose potency coming through the mail). Some pharmacies carry it as well (you don't need to have a prescription to get it, but since it has to be refrigerated it's kept behind the counter)- the VSL#3 website has a search function for pharmacies. Each packet contains 1 tsp of the probiotic (we measured it out) and for my DD it takes 1/2 a packet (we give her a 1/4 tsp 2 x a day). She is 3 years old and 28 pounds. Here is the product website if you are interested:

http://www.vsl3.com/VSL3/default.asp

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#209 of 254 Old 10-24-2007, 03:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chilliepepper View Post
Tempestjewel, thanks for sharing. This helps a lot. I hope you don't mind me quoting you in the allergy forum. I'm impressed with your success with clearing dd's eczema! I wonder if we should try the probiotic you mentioned? Or would it only be appropriate for someone recovering from a c. difficile (never heard of it) infection?
I think VSL#3 is an awesome probiotic for anyone dealing with severe gut damage. Some people have luck helping the gut heal with the Simple Carbohydrate Diet 24-hour goat yogurt, but for us this wasn't an option because DD is VERY allergic to all dairy. We trialed goat's yogurt and it resulted in the worst 24 hours of DD's life as far as eczema, attitude, and even sleep (she woke up screaming several times that night).

A lot of people try to heal the gut through diet first, and if eczema isn't severe this may be sufficient for you (and cheaper). Digestive enzymes would be my first recommendation (there is info on this in the HTG tribe sticky), followed by a diet and probiotics (either through food or supplementation).

If you have a good health care provider running a stool test is something else I again highly recommend because then you know what you are fighting. This is how we knew DD had c. difficile and that she does not produce enough enzymes from her pancreas. We also knew her immune system was not functioning well because they did an IgA count and it was almost nothing (her count was 14 and it should have been at least 400). She also had a high eosinophil blood count which showed her immune system was dealing with severe allergic problems.

Naomi, mama to Faith (12/03) and Hannah (12/06) and Kai, a homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg on 5/15/10
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#210 of 254 Old 10-24-2007, 03:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
tempestjewel ~ thanks so much for that in depth explanation. i especially appreciate the explanation on infant rice cereal and amylase. i never knew that but now i have one more reason in my arsenal for not using it when anyonr asks.
I just remembered that solid foods (including rice cereal) interferes with iron absorption from breastmilk- hence why a lot of children become anemic when they start solids and why they fortify infant rice cereal with iron (though its not well absorbed at ALL from the rice cereal).

Naomi, mama to Faith (12/03) and Hannah (12/06) and Kai, a homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg on 5/15/10
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