Vit. D deficiency - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 29 Old 11-28-2007, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Anyone been there done that?

I've been on thyroid meds for years that with a recent addition of some cytomel a few months ago, all is fine in that department.

I just completed saliva testing for the reproductive hormones and the adrenal hormones. Still waiting for results.

In the meantime for the last year, my Vit D levels have been low, despite taking 1000 to 2000 a day supplement.

I don't go out in the sun really even in the summer and up in MA the non Vit D synthesizing season is long.

One of the things mentioned on the quick little report I got was supplementing with presciption Vit D up to 50,000!! and monitoring every 6 weeks.


We are also suspecting adrenal fatigue, hence the saliva testing. Stay tuned.

I'm assuming the repro hormones are going to be out of wack given the fact that I have about a week every month without symptoms.

I ahve a cool PCP who has a good handle on the endocrine stuff and I see her next week to go over all this.

Any insight?
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#2 of 29 Old 11-29-2007, 01:41 AM
 
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no insights, although you may want to consider good quality cod liver oil. not sure the bioavailability on those vit D supplements so the cod liver oil may do wonders.
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#3 of 29 Old 11-29-2007, 10:27 AM
 
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No personal experience, but the cod liver oil may be a good idea (as part of the D supp, I mean, doesn't seem like it could be enough alone) because the A & D seem to work together, and thyroid problems cause problems converting beta-carotene to A. This will sound weird, and I don't mean it as insulting, but my dog is on thyroid meds and although I think her dosage is right (only a T4 supp, like Synthroid, no T3), I still seem to need to feed her a lot of beef liver to get the vitA to avoid hyperkeratinization on her paws, a skin condition in dogs (and people) from lack of vitamin A. So even with proper thyroid supplementation, I'm not sure (haven't seen data either way) whether beta-carotene is converted to A as efficiently as in adults not needing the thyroid supp.

A long, roundabout ramble that really doesn't address your concern. Although the A & D interaction may help your body absorb more D. There are longer articles on westonaprice.org about A & D.
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#4 of 29 Old 11-29-2007, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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: I have a fevering kid home today. I will go look more into this in a bit!
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#5 of 29 Old 12-04-2007, 04:36 PM
 
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Find some UV lights and spend some time under them, or outside on sunny days. The sun is the best way to get Vit. D. Without it, you cannot convert the precursors of Vit. D into Vit. D, not matter how much of it is in your body. 15 minutes a day will be plenty.
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#6 of 29 Old 12-04-2007, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Everything I've read about the Sun and sythesizing D is that it isn't possible for at least half the year this far north (MA). I have an appt tomorrow and I will ask about the lamps. Aren't these like tanning lights and therefore bad skin cancer-wise?
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#7 of 29 Old 12-04-2007, 05:27 PM
 
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I found out I had hypothyroidism after my daughter was born 2.5 years ago. I am on Armour, and it has lowered my level from 13(!) down to 4, but its still not low enough for me to feel good.
My ND just did some blood work and it came back really deficient in Vit D. as well.
Can you tell me more about the adrenal fatigue?
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#8 of 29 Old 12-04-2007, 05:38 PM
 
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There's a great thread, called THE Adrenal Fatigue thread, that's really helpful (I hadn't heard of adrenal fatigue before, found lots of helpful real-life stuff here). Two years ago, I became hypo and had adrenal fatigue, and found a really helpful HCP knowledgeable about mercury--it's related to the mercury in my fillings. In case it could be an issue for you, I wanted to mention it (my HCP said my symptoms were really, really typical of mercury problems, fwiw). Check out www.noamalgam.com and http://www.mercuryfreenow.com/mercurydetox/poison.html to read about how mercury can cause stuff like this.

Sorry for the aside, but figuring out what's going on with my health has been a huge thing for me, and if it's possible that the same is going on with others, I wanted to bring it up as a possibility to explore.
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#9 of 29 Old 12-04-2007, 05:42 PM
 
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I had my levels tested early this summer. it was at 15 : my ND had me take monthly vit d shots for 3 months, and I was supplementing with d daily as well (2000). Since then, I've switched to an ANP in the same practice, and she has suggested using 5000 a day (apparently even the 2000 a day is not enough, and 'they' are in the process of readjusting guidelines for D requirements since the rda is a joke). Also, northern climate, so I'm in the same (or worse) boat as you as far as the sun not being an available source.

good luck!
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#10 of 29 Old 12-04-2007, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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CK,
Re: the injections...are they administered in the docs office, once a month or are they something you do at home on a regular basis? Are there any side effects? I've heard something like 50,000. that sounds insane given the 4000 I've been taken by mouth.
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#11 of 29 Old 12-04-2007, 06:49 PM
 
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what are the symptoms of vit d deficiency? How would one know to test for that issue?
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#12 of 29 Old 12-04-2007, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Info about Vit D def. is raelly easy to find, with google anyways. Just search for Vitamin D deficiency. It shares a lot of symptoms in common with hypothyroid and adrenal fatigue too.
My doc ordered testing for it I think primarily for the fatigue and sleep issues, although I have most of the other symptoms as well. It's just a basic blood test. Not the fancy out of pocket expensive saliva testing for adrenals.
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#13 of 29 Old 12-05-2007, 05:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Golden View Post
CK,
Re: the injections...are they administered in the docs office, once a month or are they something you do at home on a regular basis? Are there any side effects? I've heard something like 50,000. that sounds insane given the 4000 I've been taken by mouth.
In the office, once a month. I didn't experience any side effects.

One site I read (http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec01/ch004/ch004k.html and also the mayo clinic website) said that toxicity can occur in adults when taking 50,000 iu PER DAY for months. I don't know the dosage of my shots, but am quite sure I was not getting (let's see, 50k x 30 days) 1,500,000 iu
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#14 of 29 Old 12-05-2007, 08:16 AM
 
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Any experience out there with those lights?
I definitely feel my mood change and my usual high energy decrease with the shorter days!

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#15 of 29 Old 12-05-2007, 09:39 AM
 
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Tanya Lopez, I had no idea that Vit A conversion was a problem for hypothyroid sufferers. I am chronically Hypo myself. Thanks for the info.
As for Vit D, I get out in daylight for about 20 minutes a day during week and longer at weekend. Irish weather is pretty bad but even on a dull cloudy day you'll still absorb the rays you need.

Arimama, re: your Hypo, did you know that the recommended range (in the U.S. - American Assoc of Endo's) is now 0.5 to 3.0 rather than the old range of 0.5. to 5.0 so you are still hypo according to the new range. The about.com thyroid website has some great info on this.
It has always puzzled me tho because it is such an individal thing. Here any reading above 4.0 or even 5.0 would be treated and anything anywhere near 13 would set off a serious alarm bell even for a GP (family physician). Personally I don't feel normal (like my old self) on any reading higher than 1.27. Bear in mind tho that many people need a higher replacement dose in Winter.

Am lucky, don't have adrenal fatigue but have weird stuff going on with my cortisol levels ( part of the adrenals are on strike and don't produce adrenalin and cortisol isn the right balance so I end up on corto-blockers to prevent the stuf doing nasties to my poor liver.
And yep, I have a liver function test regularly (people seem to ask me that).

Re: the lights.I personally have never used a light box but I know several people in Sweden (diagnosed with S.A.D as it is further North) who have found them terrific.
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#16 of 29 Old 12-05-2007, 06:08 PM
 
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As far as I know what you are looking for with the UV lights is a different spectrum or kind of UV ray emitter than used in tanning beds. The sun, and UV, is not the devil, as the mainstream med community warns and avoiding it can be far worse for you than getting UV. You don't want to burn obviousle as that is where the problem arises, but sunblock and tanning lotions IMO cause much more physical damage and cancer concern than the good ol sun. So I really wouldn't worry too much about the light boxes in that respect.
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#17 of 29 Old 12-08-2007, 05:31 AM
 
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You didn't specify which Vitamin D you were taking, so if you're not taking Vitamin D3, maybe you'll find this blog post interesting:

Vitamin D2 vs. vitamin D3
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/20...itamin-d3.html

It's written by a cardiologist that reverses heart disease with dietary changes, supplements, and drugs if totally necessary.

As far as him and Vitamin D3, in addition to how much it helps patients with heart disease, he's also watching other ways Vit D3 helps with things like cancer, and even aging (might some 'conditions' of aging actually be a Vitamin D3 deficiency instead?)

Dr. Cannell on "How much vitamin D?"
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/20...vitamin-d.html

End-stage vitamin D deficiency
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/20...eficiency.html

The last time I went Vitamin D shopping, I paid real close attention to the labels and noticed that the D3 (or Cholecalciferol, which is Vit D3's scientific name) were more expensive than the bottles labeled as Vitamin D (so assuming those were the inferior Vitamin D2).

And IIRC, there's a lot of posts or comments in his blog about how other doctor would prescribe an expensive prescription Vit D to a patient with low Vit D blood levels, and the prescription kind turns out to be VitD 2, and the patients wonder why their Vit D blood levels remain low.

If it turns out you've been taking the D2, and want to try D3, he very strongly states that only the GEL caps work, that VitD3 tablets do not work.
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#18 of 29 Old 12-08-2007, 09:47 PM
 
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Carlson makes a D3 from fish oil, which is the only form I would trust. Personally I do high vitamin cod liver oil. Vitamin A *from natural food forms* only approaches danger at 100,000IU/day over some time. Vitamin A is toxic and teratogenic at lower levels based on studies done with the synthetic form (such as retinyl palmitate) and caused modern medicine to tar all vitamin A with the same brush. It's a travesty. But I digress...

Studies have shown some adults need upwards of 4,000IU/day all winter to maintain sufficient D blood levels.

I think vitamin D deficiency is one of the biggest health crises of our day. The sun is not sufficient. Studies in Hawaii show that adults can be deficient!! Study after study clearly shows that vitamin D levels and cancer are correlated. More cancer as you go up in latitude (live farther from equator).

Vitamin A deficiency is also rampant and the two work in tandem, read Chris Masterjohn's articles at www.westonaprice.org.
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#19 of 29 Old 12-08-2007, 09:48 PM
 
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D2, the vegan form, is also toxic.
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#20 of 29 Old 12-08-2007, 09:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kezra View Post
If it turns out you've been taking the D2, and want to try D3, he very strongly states that only the GEL caps work, that VitD3 tablets do not work.

Yes this is because the gel capsules are from fish oil and thus D3 in a natural form. The D3 in white tablets is synthetic even though it is technically D3. Our bodies run on food sourced vits, not synthetic!!
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#21 of 29 Old 12-08-2007, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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well now.....

Let's see....actually when I went and looked at the bottle I had been taking, it was in fact D3 (powdered capsules from pure Encapsulations, and I wasn't taking 1-2000, but 2-4000...so more than I thought.

However, this gel form of d3 vs. powdered d3 has me intrigued....

And...so that doctor's appt I was waiting for....the saliva testing for adrenals didn't reveal much. I will be tracking down some adrenal support nonetheless.

And she did recommend the 50,000 of Vit E one pill a week for 6 weeks...which is in gel form, but the bottle says that ergosomething which I think is actually d2, not d3.

Sooooooo, where does one find this gel form of d3 and how much would it be a month and volume wise how much a day are we talking here?
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#22 of 29 Old 12-09-2007, 01:18 AM
 
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The gel form is so much more expensive than the powdered. That's yet another hardship to add when under stress from a low income. They need to have a special fund for lower income people to get decent supplements!

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#23 of 29 Old 12-12-2007, 11:18 AM
 
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Getting more sun would probably help, as long as it's not enough to cause a burn. If I understood the articles linked below, tanning beds may, or may not help; it depends on whether they put out enough UVB (the womentowomen article said most tanning salons set their tanning lights to UVA to lower the risk of burns from UVB, but it's the UVB that raises vit D levels).

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/6/1645
http://www.womentowomen.com/nutritio...nningbeds.aspx
http://www.tanningtruth.com/page.php?pid=11

This article goes on and on about how dermatologists don't like the new VitD/sun recommendations, but it does list some things that might hinder getting VitD from the sun:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ine-good_x.htm

I'm going outside to get some VitD on my arms before the front blows in and it's too cold. Good luck!
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#24 of 29 Old 12-15-2007, 01:25 AM
 
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Carlson makes a gel form , it says fish liver oil source on label. Has 1000IU in one pill too, tiny.

And depending on where you are located, you can only make vit. D from the sun a few months out of the year, the late spring, summer, early fall here in Massachusetts for example. And sometimes only around noontime. Krispin Sullivan's website, "Naked At Noon" talks about this. Also have to expose most of your body.
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#25 of 29 Old 12-15-2007, 01:28 AM
 
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250 caps of Carlson's here, not bad price:
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...ci_sku=CL-1467
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#26 of 29 Old 12-15-2007, 01:30 AM
 
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Oooh, 120 caps of 2000IU for $5
http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-Vitamin-D
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#27 of 29 Old 12-15-2007, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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JaneS,
thanks for pointing out the liquid/gel forms of D3. Any thoughts thought about the 50,000 prescription D2 I am taking? I was taking 2-4000 powdered capsule d3 for a very long time and the numbers never budged. Thus the rec for the 50,000.

I guess I am wondering if I should finish out this month on the 50,000 (once a week, 3 more left), re test levels and then get some the Carlson's to maintain it.

I am also in MA. : AND I have hard time in the heat so I am NEVER out in the middle of the day in the summer.

And what about my docs rec. to take 1000mg of cal citrate a day with the Vit D. Isn't there some synergistic thing there. Do you take the cal with the Carlson brand?

Thanks!
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#28 of 29 Old 12-15-2007, 02:37 PM
 
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D2 is the toxic artifical form, to be avoided. Many side effects have been documented, in mainstream scientific literature. Personally I wouldn't go back to a doctor that doesn't know this. Also Chris Masterjohn's articles at the WAPF document the need for vitamin A when taking high vitamin D and vice versa... they prevent toxicity in the other.

I do raw milk and 24 hr. bone broth for calcium. And I'm taking more high vitamin cod liver oil (Radiant Life) to get my D levels up.

Yes, vitamin D (and magnesium and K2) are vital for proper calcium absorption. Most people are magnesium deficient as well.

The study I mentioned re: Hawaiians...

Low Vitamin D status despite abundant sun exposure
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

Quote:
OBJECTIVE: The aim was to document the 25(OH)D status of healthy individuals with habitually high sun exposure.

SETTING: This study was conducted in a convenience sample of adults in Honolulu, Hawaii

PARTICIPANTS: The study population consisted of 93 adults (30 women and 63 men) with a mean (sem) age and body mass index of 24.0 yr (0.7) and 23.6 kg/m(2) (0.4), respectively. Their self-reported sun exposure was 28.9 (1.5) h/wk

...51% of this population had low vitamin D status.

CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest that variable responsiveness to UVB radiation is evident among individuals, causing some to have low vitamin D status despite abundant sun exposure.
So average of over 28 hours of sun/week in Hawaii and half still had low vitamin D levels!

Also I think is a factor is cholesterol in the skin. I have seen mentioned that a diet high in vegetable fats will effect body's ability to synthesize cholesterol.
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#29 of 29 Old 12-15-2007, 04:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Carlson makes a D3 from fish oil, which is the only form I would trust. Personally I do high vitamin cod liver oil. Vitamin A *from natural food forms* only approaches danger at 100,000IU/day over some time. Vitamin A is toxic and teratogenic at lower levels based on studies done with the synthetic form (such as retinyl palmitate) and caused modern medicine to tar all vitamin A with the same brush. It's a travesty. But I digress...
I have a bottle of the Carlson's D, it's fairly inexpensive too!

I second (or third?) the CLO recommendation, I take Blue Ice CLO, which is also cheaper than Nordic which uses synthetic vitamins in some of their formulas!

I think the sun is SO, SO important! I am a garden designer & live in PA. I had my D levels tested last February & they were great!! I think that being outside in the summer without sun block, in a tank top, can really build up stores for the rest of the year.

So if you can manage more sun time (without sunblock! & lots of skin exposure) in the warmer months & good quality CLO AND some Carlsons D gel caps, I think you'd notice a difference.

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