Support for treating strep/scarlet fever without antibiotics - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 22 Old 02-03-2008, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
momofmine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,087
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know there has been a lot of talk on the forum, both for and against using abx for strep, but I would just like to talk about the idea of not using them, with those who are in that camp.

My first question is, for those who have treated without abx: If you have taken abx in the past for strep, and you get it again, do you think you can try to skip them again the 2nd time? I guess what I am getting at is do you think the body can heal from the abx and then overcome the strep the second time? I feel that the reason I had strep repeatedly as a child is because of the anitbiotics. My body never had a chance to fire up an immune response.

I know people believe you must treat strep with abx to eliminate the risk of complications like rheumatic fever, but I wonder if treating strep with abx might actually make you more susceptible, because you may later be vulnerable to a strep infection that goes unnoticed, etc. Does that make sense?

I also wonder if you do go through it without abx, can you still get it again? In the past, when people got scarlet fever, they did not get it again. But there are many strains of strep (not all that cause scarlet fever), so does getting it once, if not treated with abx, give you immunity to the other strains?

I am really just curious about this. Also because there is a difference between not treating it at all, and just treating it with something other than abx (like homeopathy, or natural remedies).
Thanks for any opinions!
momofmine is offline  
#2 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 12:23 AM
 
Gitti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ready to move on...
Posts: 14,805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Good points.

Here is something I had written about it before -

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...87&postcount=4


And here is how I would treat it -

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...03&postcount=2

I raised three kids and never used abx. They all had most of the childhood disease. When they went to college two out of three did use abx at some point (they regret it now). DD age 36 still has her virgin gut.
Gitti is offline  
#3 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 12:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
momofmine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,087
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh, Gitti, thank you, but I wish I had read that earlier and felt more confident and shown it to my husband, because he wanted to use the abx after what the doctor said about the "scare" of rheumatic fever. So, if you use abx once for strep, do you think you can just overcome it the next time?
momofmine is offline  
#4 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 12:42 AM
 
runes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i had scarlet fever when i was younger, and have never had strep since, despite being surrounded by people with diagnosed cases of strep.

once at a school that i worked at, another therapist and i both had had scarlet fever as children, and were the only 2 in our department to not get extremely ill with strep.

my own personal anecdotal experience.
runes is offline  
#5 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 12:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
momofmine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,087
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's so interesting, kidspiration! Do you know if you were treated with abx? Or were you just allowed to recover naturally?
I am anxious to know!
momofmine is offline  
#6 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 01:18 AM
 
Panserbjorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Great North
Posts: 12,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Momofmine-did you get my email? I had a weird email back, but couldn't tell if it went through...
Panserbjorne is offline  
#7 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 01:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
momofmine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,087
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi! No, I didn't get it! Can you PM me?
momofmine is offline  
#8 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 01:43 AM
 
Panserbjorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Great North
Posts: 12,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yup.
Panserbjorne is offline  
#9 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 04:44 AM
 
grisandole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidspiration View Post
i had scarlet fever when i was younger, and have never had strep since, despite being surrounded by people with diagnosed cases of strep.

once at a school that i worked at, another therapist and i both had had scarlet fever as children, and were the only 2 in our department to not get extremely ill with strep.

my own personal anecdotal experience.
Me, too! I'm pretty sure I did get abx for the scarlet fever, but I'm not totally sure. I've never had strep, and in fact rarely get sore throats.

"Have faith in yourself and in the direction you have chosen." Ralph Marston

grisandole is offline  
#10 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
momofmine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,087
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's interesting! I think someone told me that their child got scarlet fever twice, but I wonder if maybe it's related to the timing of the antibiotics? I read that delaying treatment a few days for strep throat decreases your chances of it recurring.
momofmine is offline  
#11 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 10:52 AM
 
Panserbjorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Great North
Posts: 12,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That would make sense as the bodies naturally healing mechanisms (the antibodies and such) would then already have kicked in. Allowing the body to fight is what creates immunity.
Panserbjorne is offline  
#12 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
momofmine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,087
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So here is what I don't understand about strep, then. I thought that the reason why complications like rheumatic fever happen is because of the antibodies, something about how the antibodies react in a weird way in the body, like some kind of auto-immune reaction, so it would seem like the reason they want to give abx is to prevent the body from forming the right antibodies. However, if you DON'T form the right antibodies, it seems to me you will be more vulnerable to strep infections your whole life, even some that would go "undetected" and "untreated" which would supposedly be bad. So, maybe the rheumatic fever thing is just one of those weird random things that you can't control anyway. Plus, only a small percentage of those who do develop rheumatic fever have any lasting damage. So, it seems kind of crazy to treat every strep infection with abx.
momofmine is offline  
#13 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 12:04 PM
 
Gitti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ready to move on...
Posts: 14,805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by momofmine View Post
So, if you use abx once for strep, do you think you can just overcome it the next time?
imo - if you have an overall healthy immune system, yes.
Gitti is offline  
#14 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 05:42 PM
 
wannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitti View Post
DD age 36 still has her virgin gut.
Crikey!! When do you plan to introduce solids?
wannabe is offline  
#15 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 05:47 PM
 
wannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Momofmine - That's interesting, I found this on wikipedia

Quote:
Group A streptococcus pyogenes has a cell wall composed of branched polymers which sometimes contain "M proteins" that are highly antigenic. The antibodies which the immune system generates against the "M proteins" may cross react with cardiac myofiber protein myosin[6] and smooth muscle cells of arteries, inducing cytokine release and tissue destruction.
I had no idea!
wannabe is offline  
#16 of 22 Old 02-04-2008, 05:52 PM
Spy
 
Spy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,227
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by momofmine View Post
So, maybe the rheumatic fever thing is just one of those weird random things that you can't control anyway. Plus, only a small percentage of those who do develop rheumatic fever have any lasting damage. So, it seems kind of crazy to treat every strep infection with abx.
It's definitely NOT random. There is a strong link to malnutrition, not surprisingly (when you're not fed properly, anything can be a problem, strep included).

And it's not autoimmune, I don't think. It's actually the opposite - failure to develop proper defense *at the entrance* makes it possible for the bug to get that far. This is why it is stated that abx should be started within the first 48-72 hours of the very first symptoms, otherwise they may not even prevent anything (perfect excuse, considering it takes about 2-3 days to figure out it's not a common cold and make it to the doctor and probably another day or two for the test results).

Quote:
So, if you use abx once for strep, do you think you can just overcome it the next time?
I don't see why not. Worst case scenario, your body will not remember what strep is - abx have aborted the natural [long!] process of immunity building. So (again, worst case scenario) next time will be back to square one - like the very first time. Which is IMO unlikely, it is more likely to have a somewhat milder process next time. But yes, of course you overcome it, there is no point dying from strep when you're young and strong.

Antibiotics is only a matter of a quick fix, no matter what happens long term.
Spy is offline  
#17 of 22 Old 03-20-2008, 07:05 AM
 
alilu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: leonardo's labyrinth of canals
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i hope those of you who contributed to this thread are still out there... i found it doing a search in google because my dd was prescribed abx for a throat infection. even after a wonderful homebirth, not vaccinating and never filling a prescription for abx in the past, the ped managed to scare me enough for me to consider it this time. but it went against my better judgment, so yesterday i followed a couple tips here plus things i do on my own and my dd's throat looks a bit better today!!!
the point of this thread is to thank you all for being out there. your discussion here and a few posts in particular gave me the support to follow my gut feeling (no puns intended!)
thanks!

mother to marvelous 5yo DD
my dryer:
alilu is offline  
#18 of 22 Old 03-20-2008, 08:14 AM
 
Panserbjorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Great North
Posts: 12,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's always a harder situation when a baby is involved. Congratulations on finding what worked for you!
Panserbjorne is offline  
#19 of 22 Old 03-20-2008, 11:31 AM
 
alilu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: leonardo's labyrinth of canals
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
It's always a harder situation when a baby is involved. Congratulations on finding what worked for you!
thanks firefaery -- it does seem harder with a baby; i guess it's harder to hide from yourself when you have the huge responsiblity of caring for someone else. i have a lot of clear ideas, which include a profound belief in our body's ability to heal itself (with a little help sometimes) but the nasty CULTURE OF FEAR is so strong.
anyone know if we can vaccinate against THAT? seems like the most aggressive and pervasive "dis-ease".

mother to marvelous 5yo DD
my dryer:
alilu is offline  
#20 of 22 Old 03-27-2008, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
momofmine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,087
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alilu View Post
thanks firefaery -- it does seem harder with a baby; i guess it's harder to hide from yourself when you have the huge responsiblity of caring for someone else. i have a lot of clear ideas, which include a profound belief in our body's ability to heal itself (with a little help sometimes) but the nasty CULTURE OF FEAR is so strong.
anyone know if we can vaccinate against THAT? seems like the most aggressive and pervasive "dis-ease".
I totally agree! I felt the exact same way. I also have a profound, clear belief in our ability to heal, but I felt very UNclear when that culture of fear came into play. It is very pervasive, indeed. I'm glad you were able to follow your gut!
momofmine is offline  
#21 of 22 Old 03-28-2008, 11:41 AM
 
tanyalynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TX, but anticipating one more move
Posts: 11,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I'm glad you were able to follow your gut!


That just struck me, since we're discussing (you're discussing, I'm lurking) skipping antibiotics and the effect on the gut.

Good job!
tanyalynn is offline  
#22 of 22 Old 03-28-2008, 11:46 AM
 
Panserbjorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Great North
Posts: 12,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
come for the information, stay for the comedy!
Panserbjorne is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off