Am I the only crunchy person who doesn't "get" homeopathy? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 85 Old 02-19-2008, 04:13 PM
 
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I don't go for it either. Placebo. At least people are making money.
If this was true, my animals wouldn't have responded to it. They have no clue as to how to create a placebo effect, and they were on no other supplements BUT homeopathic. I've seen it work on my son who is now 2 and has no clue how to create a placebo effect. If it's only a placebo, how do you explain this? I know what I've seen with my own eyes, and it was NOT a placebo effect.

I've seen it work more often then not, and once I chose to take an in-depth study of it, I learned more about the whole system. Not everyone is into it or thinks it works of course, but I personally have seen it work in myself and in the above mentioned cases.


"yep, I think it's a crock. Teething remedies never worked at all for my kid."
Odd reasoning....so if it dosn't work on your child it means it never works at all for anyone?
"Vibrations? Please don't make me laugh." Try learning about it from a trained homeopath before you knock it...if you actually try to do an in-depth study and review you would learn that it's more then that. "I have to believe in it for it to work? Uh, then it's a placebo, not really working." Uh no, you don't have to "believe in it," I've used it on the husband who thinks I'm a loon, and it most cases it's worked on him.

"I want to know why homeopathic remedies are so expensive if they are basically water."
Expensive? I pay around 7 bucks for remedies at the health food store....heck of a lot cheaper then my 20 buck co-pay for a doctor and then 20-30 bucks more to pick up my prescription! I don't think I've paid more than 10 bucks for any remedy.

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#62 of 85 Old 02-19-2008, 04:38 PM
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But 10 bucks for a tiny vial of water (or sugar water, or alcohol) that may have one molecule of arsenic in it seems pretty steep, considering that water comes from the tap for almost nothing and one molecule of arsenic (or whatever is in the remedy) would cost a tiny fraction of a penny. I dount the raw materials would add up to more than a nickel, honestly.

I have not seen any peer-reviewed, double-blind studies demonstarting the effectiveness of homeopathy. Anecdotes really mean nothing. There's no way of knowing whether the person or animal would have recovered anyway, or whether the water/sugar/alcohol in the homeopathic remedy was really the curative agent.

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#63 of 85 Old 02-19-2008, 04:39 PM
 
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"yep, I think it's a crock. Teething remedies never worked at all for my kid."
Odd reasoning....so if it dosn't work on your child it means it never works at all for anyone?
This is the exact same reasoning as "it worked once on my cat therefore it must be great."

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"I want to know why homeopathic remedies are so expensive if they are basically water."
Expensive? I pay around 7 bucks for remedies at the health food store.
That is an awful lot of money to pay for 2 ounces of water or 5 grams of talcum powder. It's not like anyone could even make the argument that there are any R&D costs to recoup. lol
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#64 of 85 Old 02-19-2008, 04:51 PM
 
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I am a total believer in homeopathy and plan on eventually getting my homeopathic training in order to be able to help others (it isn't as easy as just saying "oh, this mixture says it's for allergies...that's the one I should take). There are MANY variables (which is why some remedies work for for some people and not for others despite seeming to have the same symptoms)). I consider myself a homeopathic snob because I do a lot of research before trying a certain remedy (single remedy...I don't do premade mixes). Talk to me again in 5 years and I'll be able to give you significantly more information.

MANY hospitals in Europe use homeopathy and I feel we are so behind the times on this matter.
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#65 of 85 Old 02-19-2008, 07:46 PM
 
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Why in the world is anyone saying you have to believe in it for it to work? That is ABSOLUTELY not the case.
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#66 of 85 Old 02-19-2008, 07:50 PM
 
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But 10 bucks for a tiny vial of water (or sugar water, or alcohol) that may have one molecule of arsenic in it seems pretty steep, considering that water comes from the tap for almost nothing and one molecule of arsenic (or whatever is in the remedy) would cost a tiny fraction of a penny. I dount the raw materials would add up to more than a nickel, honestly.

I have not seen any peer-reviewed, double-blind studies demonstarting the effectiveness of homeopathy. Anecdotes really mean nothing. There's no way of knowing whether the person or animal would have recovered anyway, or whether the water/sugar/alcohol in the homeopathic remedy was really the curative agent.

Dar
You are inflating that cost. I know I pay about $7 for 100 or so doses. If I buy them in water it's a one ounce bottle generally-not a "tiny vial."


Do you have any idea how much effort goes into making that remedy? Quite a bit. You're not paying for the material in this instance, but in the effort behind the development. How much does an actual cup of coffee cost at starbucks? It costs them less than 5 cents to make. People happily pay it, though I have NO idea why. You do, of course realize that EVERYTHING has a mark up, right?
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#67 of 85 Old 02-19-2008, 10:11 PM
 
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This recent thread "double-blind placebo-controlled studies on Homeopathy?" might be of interest:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...light=classica

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#68 of 85 Old 02-19-2008, 10:57 PM
 
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I am not reading the whole thread... I thought I would just pipe up and say, I don't get homeopathy. I am not against it though. I see an ND, and homeopathy is one of the tools many of them use. I have had homeopathic remedies work, but they would not be enough, nutrients and probiotics etc are more important for me.

I once took a homeopathic arsenic anti-parasitic remedy given to me by an ND that hurt so much I panicked and thought I was having internal bleeding. So I don't think they're always so mild. However I would not recommend that particular remedy!
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#69 of 85 Old 02-19-2008, 11:15 PM
 
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There is no reason on this earth that a homeopathic would work. Any improvement after taking a homeopathic is due to other reasons - therefore, the homeopathic is a waste of money and effort to find it.
There can be a harmful effect from thinking that one's normal body needs to be propped up with remedies - often at substancial cost.

I have seen positive effect from homeopathics in two instances - waiting for a breech to turn and an ear infection to resolve. Doing "something" allows people to await the natural process. That is a positive when the alternative is freaking out & scheduling a c-section or giving antibiotics. But I wouldn't recommend them.

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#70 of 85 Old 02-19-2008, 11:38 PM
 
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There is no reason on this earth that a homeopathic would work. Any improvement after taking a homeopathic is due to other reasons - therefore, the homeopathic is a waste of money and effort to find it.

Yep. I believed this also. Until I saw the benefits with my own eyes.


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#71 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 02:24 AM
 
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Frankly, I don't believe in allopathic medicine!
Me neither! I think there is a placebo effect going on with most of the medications that people take.

The placebo effect is nothing to cough at, by the way. It's a wonderful way to heal ourselves and our loved ones because our bodies can make all the chemicals we need to heal just by believing that we are healing. The placebo effect is also what's happening when we heal our children and pets because they believe they will feel better because that's what we the caretakers believe.

I have to admit, though, that I don't "get" homeopathy either--and I was raised on homeopathy! I never really noticed that homeopathy did anything amazing for me. These sorts of things are very subjective: Did the swelling go down a little? Does my throat feel a little less sore?

We had the extensive homeopathic kit, and we went to see homeopathic doctors. There were no miracles or cures for health problems such as asthma or menstrual cramps. After minor injuries or during the flu, it seemed like homeopathy made some people feel a little better via the placebo effect.

I'm into more tangible forms of alternative medicine like herbs and nutrition.
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#72 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 04:28 PM
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It's a wonderful way to heal ourselves and our loved ones because our bodies can make all the chemicals we need to heal just by believing that we are healing.
Our bodies can't heal cancer just by believing we're healing.
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#73 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 04:34 PM
 
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Our bodies can't heal cancer just by believing we're healing.
This makes sense. And I think this because our bodies are amazing, but our brains (collectively-not individually) have created an environment far more complex and devistating to ourselves that sometimes- nature cannot combat. (perhaps it can, but not in the way we would like- kwim?)
Some cancers (from what I understand) are not a natural occurance but an environmentally created illness that may not be curable by nature.
Nature can heal- but can it heal the un-natural?

And, faith alone may not be enough for ANY treatment of illness or injury- but it doesn't hurt either- right?

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#74 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 04:36 PM
 
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I think it's a terrible con, but if people want to spend their money on it then it's none of my business - same as people who believe in astrology or fairies, I might roll my eyes a bit but it's up to them.
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#75 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 05:15 PM
 
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Our bodies can't heal cancer just by believing we're healing.
Yes they can. They don't because we do not believe it is possible.

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#76 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 06:40 PM
 
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I get so tired of this, yeah, my mind is keeping my body from healing my diabetes. Uh huh. And I have a bridge to sell you.

My biggest concern about all of this, is the folks who use this stuff and then recommend it to others who are facing serious illness, illness that really does need allopathic medicine. It's one thing to treat a fever from the flu with homeopathic remedies, another to treat something like a child's leukemia, asthma, or something else equally as serious. People die from lack of treatment while using quack cures. If it's someone alone doing this, well, that's their choice, but using it on children and the child dies? I draw the line there.
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#77 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 07:27 PM
 
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If only we could all just live forever believing we'll never die. Of anything.
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#78 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 07:51 PM
 
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I get so tired of this, yeah, my mind is keeping my body from healing my diabetes. Uh huh. And I have a bridge to sell you.

My biggest concern about all of this, is the folks who use this stuff and then recommend it to others who are facing serious illness, illness that really does need allopathic medicine. It's one thing to treat a fever from the flu with homeopathic remedies, another to treat something like a child's leukemia, asthma, or something else equally as serious. People die from lack of treatment while using quack cures. If it's someone alone doing this, well, that's their choice, but using it on children and the child dies? I draw the line there.
With respect. This is your reality not mine. I choose not to live in your fear-based world. I have a totally different understanding of what dis-ease is but I respect your right to believe what you believe and for you to take (and give your children) whatever medication you wish. However, well over 100,000 people are killed a year by allopathic doctors and their medicine, including many children. Who's to say, that they wouldn't have lived, if their parents had taken another approach?

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#79 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 08:02 PM
 
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With respect. This is your reality not mine. I choose not to live in your fear-based world. I have a totally different understanding of what dis-ease is but I respect your right to believe what you believe and for you to take (and give your children) whatever medication you wish. However, well over 100,000 people are killed a year by allopathic doctors and their medicine, including many children. Who's to say, that they wouldn't have lived, if their parents had taken another approach?
ITA. You don't have to believe it for it to be the truth. I know people who have healed major illnesses with no intervention whatsoever. I have witnessed true healing and know that is what I want for my family.
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#80 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 08:18 PM
 
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I get so tired of this, yeah, my mind is keeping my body from healing my diabetes. Uh huh. And I have a bridge to sell you.

My biggest concern about all of this, is the folks who use this stuff and then recommend it to others who are facing serious illness, illness that really does need allopathic medicine. It's one thing to treat a fever from the flu with homeopathic remedies, another to treat something like a child's leukemia, asthma, or something else equally as serious. People die from lack of treatment while using quack cures. If it's someone alone doing this, well, that's their choice, but using it on children and the child dies? I draw the line there.
My mother, uncle and grandfather all had leukemia. The ones who went the allopathic route lived 6 months from the day of diagnosis to a little better than a year. My mom treats it homeopathically and nutritionally and has been around for 10 years post diagnosis. Not because she is lucky. They all had the same kind of leukemia. They were all diagnosed within a year or so of each other. My mother's numbers have been fantastic with homeopathy and even better with nutrition. I wish the others had been willing to try.

I have used alternative medicine very successfully with my kids when allopathy had nothing to offer. Not just for minor things either. I walk my path very confidently and my kids are well taken care of.
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#81 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 08:24 PM
 
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FF, Would homeopathy and nutrition work along side of traditional therapies or would allopathic medicine hinder the benefits? I'm really trying to learn about all of this and get to a place of understanding.
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#82 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 09:48 PM
 
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Different people would have different answers to that question. Some do combine them. I do not. I think that the core beliefs are polar opposites and incompatible. Using both you are simply straddling the fence and hedging your bets. You cannot believe that the body is inherently capable of healing itself, IMO and throw drugs at it. That is contradictory.

If you view it from a nutritional/biological perspective the drugs are harmful and foreign and you are just giving your body more crap to fight against.

If you look at it from a homeopathic perspective then you are creating even more of an imbalance and muddying the waters. You don't know what symptoms the drugs are creating and therefore cannot properly treat the person.

Energetically and spiritually if you use allopathic medicine you are still telling the body you have no faith in it's ability to heal. From where I'm sitting it is just never beneficial.

It is my experience (and noone needs to agree here) that everyone who uses alternative modalities until they can't-meaning until the infection gets too bad, or until the fever gets to high, or whatever it is was never really using it properly to begin with. You either understand the way the body heals or you don't. We all do what we are comfortable with and what makes sense to us at the time. I would never suggest someone who doesn't have inherent belief in the body's ability to heal to abandon allopathy, not in a million years. I am very happy, however to share my beliefs on the subject. If you end up looking at things differently-great. IF not, that is fine too. It's not going to change my experience of being in the world.

If you don't have faith in the body's ability to heal then it makes sense that you would use allopathic approaches. Also, it is a journey. Not everyone on it is in the same place. Not everyone is willing to even take the journey-and that's okay too. Homeopathy is just one modality and one way of doing it. It works for my family.

It's always hard it seems to start because it requires alot of reflection and introspection. It was not easy for my mom to think about the fact that she got leukemia for a reason. But she did. It wasn't easy for me to realize that the autoimmune disease that I have lived with has served me and again, is there for a reason. These are hard things to think about. But it is a part of the healing process.
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#83 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 10:43 PM
 
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Our bodies can't heal cancer just by believing we're healing.
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If only we could all just live forever believing we'll never die. Of anything.
You have both misinterpreted my comment on the placebo effect. I was just trying to say that the placebo effect is a good thing (although people usually speak of it with negative connotations) that we should all utilize as much as we can. The placebo effect exists--look up any double blind controlled study for any drug. The estimate of 30% of patients being affected by the placebo effect is conservative. Some researchers say that 70% of patients experience the placebo effect. It is simply a scientific fact that our attitudes and thoughts can produce chemicals in our bodies that are similar to the chemicals in common pharmaceuticals. For example, researchers are saying that none of the anti-depressants out there can beat the placebo effect for healing depression.

Don't worry, I'm not into faith healing. I'm an atheist after all! But the placebo effect has been proven to exist, so we might as well try to use it as one of many tools for healing. I would never try to heal cancer, for example, just with the placebo effect. Of course, I'm not one for chemo and radiation either. If I had cancer, I would try to heal with nutrition, herbs, acupuncture, exercise, the placebo effect, and other alternative therapies. I would also look at my environment to see if I was being exposed to an inordinate amount of carcinogens on a daily basis.
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#84 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 11:33 PM
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You are inflating that cost. I know I pay about $7 for 100 or so doses. If I buy them in water it's a one ounce bottle generally-not a "tiny vial."
An ounce of water costs a fraction of a penny more than a tiny vial of water.... and the $10 cost came from a user of homeopathy who paid that much for a remedy, not from me.

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Do you have any idea how much effort goes into making that remedy? Quite a bit. You're not paying for the material in this instance, but in the effort behind the development. How much does an actual cup of coffee cost at starbucks? It costs them less than 5 cents to make. People happily pay it, though I have NO idea why. You do, of course realize that EVERYTHING has a mark up, right?
What effort are you referring to? I mean, most homeopathics are the equivalent of generic medications, so the company selling it didn't necessarily do any R&D. The raw materials are cheap. They manufacturing process isn't complicated.

I mean, I can buy 100 doses of aspirin for a dollar... that seems more relevant to the price of homepathic remedies than the price of a cup of Starbucks coffee.

And anecdotes about cancer survival are just anecdotes... and blaming people for their illnesses and their deaths from those illnesses is really troubling to me.

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#85 of 85 Old 02-24-2008, 11:46 PM
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I have never understood why people who are so good at applying critical thinking to birth, vaccine, etc issues don't do the same to homeopathy. As far as I can tell, homeopathy is placebo. And I've read a LOT of the studies of homeopathy, and they are universally horribly badly designed.

I just don't buy it. At all.
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