Healing The Gut Tribe! - Page 13 - Mothering Forums

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#361 of 457 Old 10-07-2008, 04:20 PM
 
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coconut inhibits yeast reproduction.
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#362 of 457 Old 10-07-2008, 07:03 PM
 
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coconut inhibits yeast reproduction.
yes but i know personally my candida flares from eating coconut with anything sweet...as in macaroons. i love jennie's macaroons, they're only sweetened w/ honey but they make me have the worst gas if i eat more than one or two of them. i don't have problems with coconut if i'm not eating it sweetened.

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#363 of 457 Old 10-08-2008, 01:49 AM
 
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Yes you can take and then stop. Your body in no way becomes dependent on them. Whether your intestinal inflammation retreats and your own intestinal villi are repaired, your gut flora balanced, and your stomach acid strengthened, is the test of healing.

Ideally, one can learn to craft a diet filled with enzyme rich food: raw animal foods and fermented grains/fruit/veggies/beverages to save your own enzymes for body repair and your pancreas from overworking on processed food, as much research on traditional diets have shown. In fact, eating enzyme rich foods is the same as popping digestive enzyme pills, it's just harder and not our modern way of eating.

I was just reading Dr. Tom Cowan's book again the other day and came across a suggestion for a pineapple fast (pineapple has huge amount of protein digesting enzymes) and thought that was interesting. Of course for us who are intolerant of large amounts of salicylates that would be a nightmare. But similarly there are other raw food diets that one can learn the background theory of enzymes and healing from: The Milk Cure or The Primal Diet.

There is some evidence of Food Chemical Intolerance (salicylates, amines) and eczema which I'm researching now.
http://www.cs.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allergy/

That could be the reason for the previous poster with a baby reacting to large amounts of veggies.
I am glad to hear this! I'm looking for as much assistance as I can to help get our bellies back in order. Will I find the same enzymes in the juices as I would in the whole fruit? Our grocery store carries the fruit so I can get it, but the juice is so much more convenient (and somehow cheaper). It would be easy to get a few ounces of juice into my family at each meal. I'll do more research into the other enzyme rich foods you suggested.
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#364 of 457 Old 10-08-2008, 10:04 AM
 
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I would personally highly discourage healing with fruit juices. I did the primal diet strictly and think that was the best thing for me, so I know it's really possible to heal with raw foods. However I would definitely suggest seeking out enzymes from veggies rather than fruit. I think too much sugar could cause just as much problems as too little enzymes.

What I do for my kids is juice an entire head of organic celery and an entire bunch of organic parsley and use that (about 3 cups of juice) as the base for their smoothies. I add some whole fruit, coconut oil and raw almond butter to it. That way they are getting their greens, enzymes, amino acids etc. in a form that is tasty and provides fat so metals don't get mobilized too quickly (a problem in many kids with gut issues.)

All raw foods will have enzymes so yes, eating raw fruit will deliver them but only enough, I suspect to deal with the fruit itself. If you want to do any killing of bacteria/pathogens I do think you need to supplement. JMHO.
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#365 of 457 Old 10-08-2008, 12:44 PM
 
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coconut inhibits yeast reproduction.
This is why I was wondering about us both reacting to the coconut. (We both had some blood in stool and looser stool. I wondered if it could mean that he actually has some yeast issues, and so it was like die-off? The weired thing is that he ate coconut fine before. In the past, he has had Jennie's macaroons, or shredded coconut in things like chicken salad. The odd thing is that everything I read says that coconut actually helps with diarrhea. So the only thing I can think of is that, if his gut is inflamed, the fiber in the coconut is irritating it.

So, then how do I figure out what is causing it to be inflamed?
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#366 of 457 Old 10-08-2008, 12:45 PM
 
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If you want to do any killing of bacteria/pathogens I do think you need to supplement. JMHO.
Do you mean supplement with enzymes? Or supplement with other things that kill off the bacteria/pathogens?

Thanks everyone.
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#367 of 457 Old 10-08-2008, 02:20 PM
 
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I'm not sure he has anything to kill off, we're doing probiotics. I just want something else to ease the pressure on his digestive system while we get it healed. This is all brand new to me. Should I just find a supplimental pill?
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#368 of 457 Old 10-08-2008, 05:02 PM
 
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Do you mean supplement with enzymes? Or supplement with other things that kill off the bacteria/pathogens?

Thanks everyone.
yes, I meant with enzymes. Sorry
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#369 of 457 Old 10-08-2008, 05:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GoddessKristie View Post
I'm not sure he has anything to kill off, we're doing probiotics. I just want something else to ease the pressure on his digestive system while we get it healed. This is all brand new to me. Should I just find a supplimental pill?
The enzymes will help with inflammation and healing of the gut. You can check out www.enzymestuff.com for more info.
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#370 of 457 Old 10-10-2008, 02:40 AM
 
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Hi friends,
I am feeling so stuck and need some advice. I really and truly believe that there is something I need to be doing for my son to help him, and that I just need to figure it out. When I went to the homeopath, he said, his stools do not sound problematic, and that he is just getting too much fructose in his diet, and that I should switch the balance to more vegs and less fruit. I really do not think this is it. I have tried just cutting back fruits, and it did not change things. Besides, why would this have been the case only AFTER the abx? Why would he have had normal poops before and poops that come out formed but separate in the water after?

The other day I decided to completely stop the probiotics, because I thought that maybe the probiotics were just not helping, and maybe pelting his body with them was not what he needed. So I stopped them. Since, then, he started having more gas (he usually does not pass gas much, but for the last two days he has been passing quite a bit, no pain, just passing gas.) He had a couple of normal poops, but they seem to be getting looser the past two days.

And the really strange thing is the eye thing. I posted about this a while back. But now it is more clear. At first, it seemed he was possibly doing it on purpose, but now it does not seem that way. It has been much more noticeable, but when he focuses on something really close up, his eyes turn inward, but one eye turns inward a lot more than the other. Looking at things far away, there is no problem. The strange things is that this has seemed more noticeable after I stopped the higher dose probiotics.

But the reason I stopped them is because he had begun to have a bit of blood on the tp every time he pooped and he was starting to have anal itching. I had worked my way up to that high does very slowly. I tried giving him even just one dose of it after stopping it and he had diarrhea.

I don't know what to do. For my first child, the SCD is what ultimately helped him. I have resisted going that way with him because of not doing nuts. However, I feel like maybe he needs that.

What would you try as your first next step? Enzymes? A different probiotic? What about something with S. boulardii? Or Threelac?

The eye thing has me worried now, because I have noticed it increase since reducing the probiotics, so it makes me think maybe we were staving something off.
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#371 of 457 Old 10-10-2008, 05:51 AM
 
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for those who have successfully reintroduced foods into their own or their kid's diets: how did you know when to do it?

I'd really like to try to reintroduce chocolate (cocoa powder in something i bake) to my dd1 as that would expand our desert options sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much. she is much less sensitive to sugars than she once was (she can have raisins bananas a weekly lolly with cane sugar in it, gasp! ) but other wise we havenot tried any foods that ever caused digestive disturbances (wheat, dairy except butter, corn, soy, chocolate). Chocolate isnt a protein like the others (right?) so it seems less likely to still be a problem (to me).

we'd do it this coming week b/c she has all week off from school.
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#372 of 457 Old 10-10-2008, 09:50 AM
 
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for those who have successfully reintroduced foods into their own or their kid's diets: how did you know when to do it?

I'd really like to try to reintroduce chocolate (cocoa powder in something i bake) to my dd1 as that would expand our desert options sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much. she is much less sensitive to sugars than she once was (she can have raisins bananas a weekly lolly with cane sugar in it, gasp! ) but other wise we havenot tried any foods that ever caused digestive disturbances (wheat, dairy except butter, corn, soy, chocolate). Chocolate isnt a protein like the others (right?) so it seems less likely to still be a problem (to me).

we'd do it this coming week b/c she has all week off from school.
I don't have an answer for when to introduce new foods, but if you try chocolate and it doesn't work, consider carob. It is a legume though, so keep that in mind if you have problems with beans. I love carob.
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#373 of 457 Old 10-10-2008, 12:56 PM
 
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The only answer I can give is this;

If your dd has severe or life threaghtning reactions to a certain food I would be very hesitant to re-introduce it.

On the other hand if the reactions are not so severe, go ahead and try.

We did some things by accident, like bananas, ds still won't touch one, but when they are baked in muffins he loves it and he has no reactions, we forgot once and gave him muffins with bananas and then when we realized we saw he was fine.......that doesn't mean he wouldn't react ot a fresh banana though.
The same with egg, I had made a fruit/milk smoothie for my older kids with raw egg yoke in and one of his sibs shared with him........no hives. wow I realized that if he didin't react to raw egg yoke he probably wouldn't ot cooked egg yoke and so it was ....and then one day I just made him and egg with the eggwhite too and he was fine......
but that is just our personal experience.
dd 7 would react ot pineapple and I havn't re-tried him on that one, although I have been thinking about it for a while since he has been on "no phenol" enzymes for a quite a while now. I will let you know how it goes.
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#374 of 457 Old 10-10-2008, 01:47 PM
 
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Question...
Getting ready to start the candex. I take a thyroid pill(T3) in the morning that has to be given 30 min away from food, some Isocort, and the Virastop. Where should I put the candex?
Thanks!!!
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#375 of 457 Old 10-10-2008, 09:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by momofmine View Post
And the really strange thing is the eye thing. I posted about this a while back. But now it is more clear. At first, it seemed he was possibly doing it on purpose, but now it does not seem that way. It has been much more noticeable, but when he focuses on something really close up, his eyes turn inward, but one eye turns inward a lot more than the other. Looking at things far away, there is no problem. The strange things is that this has seemed more noticeable after I stopped the higher dose probiotics.

But the reason I stopped them is because he had begun to have a bit of blood on the tp every time he pooped and he was starting to have anal itching. I had worked my way up to that high does very slowly. I tried giving him even just one dose of it after stopping it and he had diarrhea.

I don't know what to do. For my first child, the SCD is what ultimately helped him. I have resisted going that way with him because of not doing nuts. However, I feel like maybe he needs that.

What would you try as your first next step? Enzymes? A different probiotic? What about something with S. boulardii? Or Threelac?

The eye thing has me worried now, because I have noticed it increase since reducing the probiotics, so it makes me think maybe we were staving something off.
I don't have a definitive answer for you, but I do think that you should read this. I found it very, very interesting.

http://mindd.org/serendipity/uploads...le-McBride.pdf

Laura - Mom to ds (10) and dd (7) "Time stands still best in moments that look suspiciously like ordinary life." Brian Andreas.

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#376 of 457 Old 10-11-2008, 02:28 PM
 
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Question...
Getting ready to start the candex. I take a thyroid pill(T3) in the morning that has to be given 30 min away from food, some Isocort, and the Virastop. Where should I put the candex?
Thanks!!!

If the T3 is time released capsule then do not give Candex with it as the cellulase interferes with the coating, otherwise it seems it would be fine with the rest of your supps.
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#377 of 457 Old 10-11-2008, 02:34 PM
 
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Jane, do you think getting enzymes from food can be just as effective as taking enzyme pills? Or, do you think if you are trying to right some wrongs, then the pills work better first?

What are the best foods for that? Just anything fermented?
Yes certainly. But enzyme caps can be easier to do and more well rounded/specialized.

Anything raw has enzymes: such as raw fruit and animal products. Fermenting increases enzymes such as soaking grains and nuts, culturing veggies and dairy and making lacto fermented beverages.

The key is which enzymes are present too. Papain and pineapple are the only fruits I'm aware of that have high proteases. Animals foods such as raw milk, meat, fish, have protease and lipase. I think avocado has lipase too. The WAPF folks rec fermented beet kvass (which is excellent for your liver) and lacto fermented ginger ale for their enzymes, take 1-2 oz with every meal. (Recipes in Nourishing Traditions).
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#378 of 457 Old 10-11-2008, 02:37 PM
 
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I am glad to hear this! I'm looking for as much assistance as I can to help get our bellies back in order. Will I find the same enzymes in the juices as I would in the whole fruit? Our grocery store carries the fruit so I can get it, but the juice is so much more convenient (and somehow cheaper). It would be easy to get a few ounces of juice into my family at each meal. I'll do more research into the other enzyme rich foods you suggested.
Only if you juice yourself. Juices that have been packaged are pastuerized and have no enzymes at all. I have heard excellent stories IRL on juicing and allergies. Natasha Campbell McBride talks about in her GAPS book with some recipes.
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#379 of 457 Old 10-11-2008, 02:40 PM
 
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If the T3 is time released capsule then do not give Candex with it as the cellulase interferes with the coating, otherwise it seems it would be fine with the rest of your supps.
Oops. It is time released. I bet the virastop isn't a good thing to take at the same time then.
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#380 of 457 Old 10-11-2008, 02:50 PM
 
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Hi friends,
I am feeling so stuck and need some advice. I really and truly believe that there is something I need to be doing for my son to help him, and that I just need to figure it out. When I went to the homeopath, he said, his stools do not sound problematic, and that he is just getting too much fructose in his diet, and that I should switch the balance to more vegs and less fruit. I really do not think this is it. I have tried just cutting back fruits, and it did not change things. Besides, why would this have been the case only AFTER the abx? Why would he have had normal poops before and poops that come out formed but separate in the water after?

The other day I decided to completely stop the probiotics, because I thought that maybe the probiotics were just not helping, and maybe pelting his body with them was not what he needed. So I stopped them. Since, then, he started having more gas (he usually does not pass gas much, but for the last two days he has been passing quite a bit, no pain, just passing gas.) He had a couple of normal poops, but they seem to be getting looser the past two days.

And the really strange thing is the eye thing. I posted about this a while back. But now it is more clear. At first, it seemed he was possibly doing it on purpose, but now it does not seem that way. It has been much more noticeable, but when he focuses on something really close up, his eyes turn inward, but one eye turns inward a lot more than the other. Looking at things far away, there is no problem. The strange things is that this has seemed more noticeable after I stopped the higher dose probiotics.

But the reason I stopped them is because he had begun to have a bit of blood on the tp every time he pooped and he was starting to have anal itching. I had worked my way up to that high does very slowly. I tried giving him even just one dose of it after stopping it and he had diarrhea.

I don't know what to do. For my first child, the SCD is what ultimately helped him. I have resisted going that way with him because of not doing nuts. However, I feel like maybe he needs that.

What would you try as your first next step? Enzymes? A different probiotic? What about something with S. boulardii? Or Threelac?

The eye thing has me worried now, because I have noticed it increase since reducing the probiotics, so it makes me think maybe we were staving something off.
Based on my many experiences with "odd" behaviors in my DS when his gut was bad, this is a symptoms of something going on. Whether it is something serious or not my experience would say no, but it is an indication of what is going on.

If I were in your shoes, with the benefit of living through this with my DS I would first start with his diet. Certain high fructose fruits do indeed do this to my DS. Even now when his stool is perfect and consistent all the time now, one apple (even sadly Golden Delicious which are supposed to be low in phenols, boo hoo!) and he will get loose stool and slight (only a mother would realize) behavioral issues. Or peaches or pineapple. But he can eat an entire quart of strawberries over one day and this will not happen to his stool. Learning what my DS can tolerate perfectly has been a long journey but at least we found the benefit of it now.

The reason your son cannot tolerate some things after the antibx is that they disrupt digestion and gut flora.

I would then add enzymes with meals and then between meals with a slow step by step approach. I would definately try to find a probiotic which helps. I cannot tell you which one is best for your situation, only that we have been helped by Natren, Culturelle and Pharmax and homemade kefir and yogurt and other ferments.

Vitamin C is essential for ameliorating detox symptoms, several times/day.

For visual issues, cod liver oil is indeed key. I would be giving at least 10,000 IU of A and 1,000 IU of D per day and bumping that up for a short time if he has not been consistently getting at least 5,000 IU of A for the last year, or had multiple fevers.
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#381 of 457 Old 10-11-2008, 02:51 PM
 
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Oops. It is time released. I bet the virastop isn't a good thing to take at the same time then.
No time released meds have a cellulose coating, proteases shouldnt have an effect.
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#382 of 457 Old 10-11-2008, 02:56 PM
 
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Momofmine,

Has the only probiotic you tried have FOS? Have you tried an FOS free one?

There are so many positive studies on FOS... but whether it shifts things too fast or whether you have predominently yeast or bacteria as your major bad guys... some people just really cannot tolerate it.

I wish I knew exactly what the criteria is so we could have some general guidelines but I would take your experience as a sign he needs an FOS free one.
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#383 of 457 Old 10-12-2008, 10:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by gilamama View Post
for those who have successfully reintroduced foods into their own or their kid's diets: how did you know when to do it?

I'd really like to try to reintroduce chocolate (cocoa powder in something i bake) to my dd1 as that would expand our desert options sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much. she is much less sensitive to sugars than she once was (she can have raisins bananas a weekly lolly with cane sugar in it, gasp! ) but other wise we havenot tried any foods that ever caused digestive disturbances (wheat, dairy except butter, corn, soy, chocolate). Chocolate isnt a protein like the others (right?) so it seems less likely to still be a problem (to me).

we'd do it this coming week b/c she has all week off from school.
dd1 had mystery diarhea today. i really have no clue wlhat it could have been caused by at all. she has been so stable for so long. i tend to over analyze things. but maybe this is not an allergy thing? doesnt this "just happen" sometimes?
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#384 of 457 Old 10-12-2008, 11:24 PM
 
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I have had dd on Nystatin for a week now (with enzymes and a lot of probiotis). I think I remember somewhere needing to rotate anti-fungals. Does that go for Nystatin as well?
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#385 of 457 Old 10-12-2008, 11:30 PM
 
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I have had dd on Nystatin for a week now (with enzymes and a lot of probiotis). I think I remember somewhere needing to rotate anti-fungals. Does that go for Nystatin as well?
Yes. Our doc had dd on 1 tab nystatin 3x/day for 10 days, then 2 tabs 3x/day for 10 days. Then onto another anti-fungal for 10 days, switching them every 10 days. I have used OoO, GSE, and he also recommended goldenseal and propolis. When ready to stop the anti-fungals, start taking S. Boulardii instead.

ETA: You can also do ten additional days on a double dose of whichever anti-fungal you're using, like with the Nystatin. How's your dd?
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#386 of 457 Old 10-13-2008, 03:12 AM
 
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Another couple questions:

1. Starting candex with my 28 month old. According to their site it says to give 1/2 a capsule for 40pds. My daughter is 27 pounds, does this mean 1/4 of a capsule? How am I going to measure 1/4 of a capsule : ? However, according to the website that sells them my ND wanted me to order from they say: Children: 1 to 2 capsules one-time daily one hour before meals or two hours after meals. Capsules can be swallowed or opened up and mixed into a small amount of liquid. What do you think?
2. When is the best time to give the VSL#3, and what to give it with?
2. Also, what do you think of Taurine for liver support?
3. Anyone here heard of Pyluria?
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#387 of 457 Old 10-13-2008, 02:19 PM
 
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How do you heal a babies gut? My DD is 6.5 months old and I want to try to cleanse us both.

I know I can give her probiotics directly, but what about the other things that are recommended...

enzymes- should I just take them?

cod liver oil?

fermented foods?

We are struggling with her ability to eat any solids without getting really bad gas.

Meghan, Married to Scott, Mother to Audrey- 2, and Expecting Nov 10th
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#388 of 457 Old 10-13-2008, 11:05 PM
 
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Yes. Our doc had dd on 1 tab nystatin 3x/day for 10 days, then 2 tabs 3x/day for 10 days. Then onto another anti-fungal for 10 days, switching them every 10 days. I have used OoO, GSE, and he also recommended goldenseal and propolis. When ready to stop the anti-fungals, start taking S. Boulardii instead.

EAT: You can also do ten additional days on a double dose of whichever anti-fungal you're using, like with the Nystatin. How's your dd?
Thank you! We are working towards 2 tabs of Nystatin 3x/day and will do that for a while before I switch to something else. GSE would be nice, but dd has now decided to chew the tablets I give her and apparently the GSE is horrible. I might do OoO after the Nystatin - just rub it on her feet.
Dd is doing better than last week when she flared up. She also isn't fussy anymore and sleeps a bit better. Her skin looks good, but we are still far from it being completely clear. Her legs seem to be very itchy, even though it looks so much better. I am confused about that.
Oh, and her poops seem to be either very nice and formed or a bit mushy. Sometimes it smells like cow dung! Anyone know why that would be? (she eats a lot of meat and fat, so it cannot be diet alone, I don't think)
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#389 of 457 Old 10-15-2008, 08:46 PM
 
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I haven't been on this thread for a while, but I just got back from an appointment with my new ND and wanted to see what you guys thought about this treatment plan.

I had a stool & saliva test done, and here are my results:
  1. chymotrypsin (marker enzyme for pancreatic output) - 5, low (normal is >9)
  2. ameba histolytica - equivocal
  3. alpha anti-chymotrypsin - 105, high (normal is <60)
  4. free cortisol rhythm (only checked once, first thing in the am) - 12, low
Here's the plan (I added links so that you can see the ingredients for each supplement):
  1. Gastric Complex for enzymes + gut support
  2. The ND says that she treats an equivocal ameba test as positive, but that the usual course of treatment isn't necessarily safe while BFing. She said she's done an essential oils treatment that has about a 50/50 success rate. So she gave me a mix of: savory, thyme, cinnamon, clove, bay laurel, rosemary, tea tree, and lemon. I'm supposed to do 8 drops (mixed with some honey or a sugar cube or something), twice a day. DD tested positive on her ELISA to both cinnamon and lemon, so I'm a little nervous about using this.
  3. no treatment for this- hopefully the irritation will resolve by treating the other issues.
  4. Adren-Plus for adrenal support
What do you smart mamas think?

And what about parasites? Has anyone else dealt with them (as opposed to yeast) as the root cause of your gut issues? If so, did you have to treat your LO too (if you were BFing)? I'm curious if we should be running these same tests for DD too.

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
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#390 of 457 Old 10-17-2008, 10:52 PM
 
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Where did all my gut-healing mamas go??

I have already decided that I'm not going to do the EO treatment, since 1) we don't know for sure that I have parasites or not, 2) the treatment might not even work if I did have parasites, and 3) DD will most likely react to at least 2 of the ingredients.

I put a call in to the company to see if the veggie caps have corn in them (even though the bottle says contains no corn, etc.) and I'm still waiting to hear back.... I also just noticed that the Adren-Plus has a warning to check with your HCP if pregnant, nursing, etc. I'm curious why??

I would love to get some input on all this.... I hope to start trialing one of the supplements over the weekend- probably the Gastric Complex. (I can only trial one at a time since DD reacts to almost everything.)

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
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