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Healing The Gut Tribe!

29K views 456 replies 61 participants last post by  tournesol 
#1 ·
If there is no current thread for this, I think we need to start one. Hopefully there are still some mamas around working on healing and we can get a good chat going.

DH and I are both in the need of some gut healing so I've been doing lots of reading. He has IBS, seems to be developing arthritis & is in constant joint/muscle pain. I have all kinds of bizarre problems and I feel like too much of a hypochondriac to list them all
but I do think it all originates in my gut. I also have begun to suspect that ds is reacting to foods through breast milk. I only realized yesterday and dropped dairy right away, but it's too soon to see improvements. From my reading it seems that if he is reacting to foods through me, I almost certainly have a leaky gut -- which would confirm my earlier thought.

So is there anyone else still out there? Come on in!
 
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#379 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
If the T3 is time released capsule then do not give Candex with it as the cellulase interferes with the coating, otherwise it seems it would be fine with the rest of your supps.
Oops. It is time released. I bet the virastop isn't a good thing to take at the same time then.
 
#380 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by momofmine View Post
Hi friends,
I am feeling so stuck and need some advice. I really and truly believe that there is something I need to be doing for my son to help him, and that I just need to figure it out. When I went to the homeopath, he said, his stools do not sound problematic, and that he is just getting too much fructose in his diet, and that I should switch the balance to more vegs and less fruit. I really do not think this is it. I have tried just cutting back fruits, and it did not change things. Besides, why would this have been the case only AFTER the abx? Why would he have had normal poops before and poops that come out formed but separate in the water after?

The other day I decided to completely stop the probiotics, because I thought that maybe the probiotics were just not helping, and maybe pelting his body with them was not what he needed. So I stopped them. Since, then, he started having more gas (he usually does not pass gas much, but for the last two days he has been passing quite a bit, no pain, just passing gas.) He had a couple of normal poops, but they seem to be getting looser the past two days.

And the really strange thing is the eye thing. I posted about this a while back. But now it is more clear. At first, it seemed he was possibly doing it on purpose, but now it does not seem that way. It has been much more noticeable, but when he focuses on something really close up, his eyes turn inward, but one eye turns inward a lot more than the other. Looking at things far away, there is no problem. The strange things is that this has seemed more noticeable after I stopped the higher dose probiotics.

But the reason I stopped them is because he had begun to have a bit of blood on the tp every time he pooped and he was starting to have anal itching. I had worked my way up to that high does very slowly. I tried giving him even just one dose of it after stopping it and he had diarrhea.

I don't know what to do. For my first child, the SCD is what ultimately helped him. I have resisted going that way with him because of not doing nuts. However, I feel like maybe he needs that.

What would you try as your first next step? Enzymes? A different probiotic? What about something with S. boulardii? Or Threelac?

The eye thing has me worried now, because I have noticed it increase since reducing the probiotics, so it makes me think maybe we were staving something off.
Based on my many experiences with "odd" behaviors in my DS when his gut was bad, this is a symptoms of something going on. Whether it is something serious or not my experience would say no, but it is an indication of what is going on.

If I were in your shoes, with the benefit of living through this with my DS I would first start with his diet. Certain high fructose fruits do indeed do this to my DS. Even now when his stool is perfect and consistent all the time now, one apple (even sadly Golden Delicious which are supposed to be low in phenols, boo hoo!) and he will get loose stool and slight (only a mother would realize) behavioral issues. Or peaches or pineapple. But he can eat an entire quart of strawberries over one day and this will not happen to his stool. Learning what my DS can tolerate perfectly has been a long journey but at least we found the benefit of it now.

The reason your son cannot tolerate some things after the antibx is that they disrupt digestion and gut flora.

I would then add enzymes with meals and then between meals with a slow step by step approach. I would definately try to find a probiotic which helps. I cannot tell you which one is best for your situation, only that we have been helped by Natren, Culturelle and Pharmax and homemade kefir and yogurt and other ferments.

Vitamin C is essential for ameliorating detox symptoms, several times/day.

For visual issues, cod liver oil is indeed key. I would be giving at least 10,000 IU of A and 1,000 IU of D per day and bumping that up for a short time if he has not been consistently getting at least 5,000 IU of A for the last year, or had multiple fevers.
 
#382 ·
Momofmine,

Has the only probiotic you tried have FOS? Have you tried an FOS free one?

There are so many positive studies on FOS... but whether it shifts things too fast or whether you have predominently yeast or bacteria as your major bad guys... some people just really cannot tolerate it.

I wish I knew exactly what the criteria is so we could have some general guidelines but I would take your experience as a sign he needs an FOS free one.
 
#383 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by gilamama View Post
for those who have successfully reintroduced foods into their own or their kid's diets: how did you know when to do it?

I'd really like to try to reintroduce chocolate (cocoa powder in something i bake) to my dd1 as that would expand our desert options sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much. she is much less sensitive to sugars than she once was (she can have raisins bananas a weekly lolly with cane sugar in it, gasp! ) but other wise we havenot tried any foods that ever caused digestive disturbances (wheat, dairy except butter, corn, soy, chocolate). Chocolate isnt a protein like the others (right?) so it seems less likely to still be a problem (to me).

we'd do it this coming week b/c she has all week off from school.
dd1 had mystery diarhea today. i really have no clue wlhat it could have been caused by at all. she has been so stable for so long.
i tend to over analyze things. but maybe this is not an allergy thing? doesnt this "just happen" sometimes?
 
#385 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by SAmama View Post
I have had dd on Nystatin for a week now (with enzymes and a lot of probiotis). I think I remember somewhere needing to rotate anti-fungals. Does that go for Nystatin as well?
Yes. Our doc had dd on 1 tab nystatin 3x/day for 10 days, then 2 tabs 3x/day for 10 days. Then onto another anti-fungal for 10 days, switching them every 10 days. I have used OoO, GSE, and he also recommended goldenseal and propolis. When ready to stop the anti-fungals, start taking S. Boulardii instead.

ETA: You can also do ten additional days on a double dose of whichever anti-fungal you're using, like with the Nystatin. How's your dd?
 
#386 ·
Another couple questions:

1. Starting candex with my 28 month old. According to their site it says to give 1/2 a capsule for 40pds. My daughter is 27 pounds, does this mean 1/4 of a capsule? How am I going to measure 1/4 of a capsule
: ? However, according to the website that sells them my ND wanted me to order from they say: Children: 1 to 2 capsules one-time daily one hour before meals or two hours after meals. Capsules can be swallowed or opened up and mixed into a small amount of liquid. What do you think?
2. When is the best time to give the VSL#3, and what to give it with?
2. Also, what do you think of Taurine for liver support?
3. Anyone here heard of Pyluria?
 
#387 ·
How do you heal a babies gut? My DD is 6.5 months old and I want to try to cleanse us both.

I know I can give her probiotics directly, but what about the other things that are recommended...

enzymes- should I just take them?

cod liver oil?

fermented foods?

We are struggling with her ability to eat any solids without getting really bad gas.
 
#388 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by joybird View Post
Yes. Our doc had dd on 1 tab nystatin 3x/day for 10 days, then 2 tabs 3x/day for 10 days. Then onto another anti-fungal for 10 days, switching them every 10 days. I have used OoO, GSE, and he also recommended goldenseal and propolis. When ready to stop the anti-fungals, start taking S. Boulardii instead.

EAT: You can also do ten additional days on a double dose of whichever anti-fungal you're using, like with the Nystatin. How's your dd?
Thank you! We are working towards 2 tabs of Nystatin 3x/day and will do that for a while before I switch to something else. GSE would be nice, but dd has now decided to chew the tablets I give her and apparently the GSE is horrible. I might do OoO after the Nystatin - just rub it on her feet.
Dd is doing better than last week when she flared up. She also isn't fussy anymore and sleeps a bit better. Her skin looks good, but we are still far from it being completely clear. Her legs seem to be very itchy, even though it looks so much better. I am confused about that.
Oh, and her poops seem to be either very nice and formed or a bit mushy. Sometimes it smells like cow dung! Anyone know why that would be? (she eats a lot of meat and fat, so it cannot be diet alone, I don't think)
 
#389 ·
I haven't been on this thread for a while, but I just got back from an appointment with my new ND and wanted to see what you guys thought about this treatment plan.

I had a stool & saliva test done, and here are my results:
  1. chymotrypsin (marker enzyme for pancreatic output) - 5, low (normal is >9)
  2. ameba histolytica - equivocal
  3. alpha anti-chymotrypsin - 105, high (normal is <60)
  4. free cortisol rhythm (only checked once, first thing in the am) - 12, low
Here's the plan (I added links so that you can see the ingredients for each supplement):
  1. Gastric Complex for enzymes + gut support
  2. The ND says that she treats an equivocal ameba test as positive, but that the usual course of treatment isn't necessarily safe while BFing. She said she's done an essential oils treatment that has about a 50/50 success rate. So she gave me a mix of: savory, thyme, cinnamon, clove, bay laurel, rosemary, tea tree, and lemon. I'm supposed to do 8 drops (mixed with some honey or a sugar cube or something), twice a day. DD tested positive on her ELISA to both cinnamon and lemon, so I'm a little nervous about using this.
  3. no treatment for this- hopefully the irritation will resolve by treating the other issues.
  4. Adren-Plus for adrenal support
What do you smart mamas think?

And what about parasites? Has anyone else dealt with them (as opposed to yeast) as the root cause of your gut issues? If so, did you have to treat your LO too (if you were BFing)? I'm curious if we should be running these same tests for DD too.
 
#390 ·
Where did all my gut-healing mamas go??

I have already decided that I'm not going to do the EO treatment, since 1) we don't know for sure that I have parasites or not, 2) the treatment might not even work if I did have parasites, and 3) DD will most likely react to at least 2 of the ingredients.

I put a call in to the company to see if the veggie caps have corn in them (even though the bottle says contains no corn, etc.) and I'm still waiting to hear back.... I also just noticed that the Adren-Plus has a warning to check with your HCP if pregnant, nursing, etc. I'm curious why??

I would love to get some input on all this.... I hope to start trialing one of the supplements over the weekend- probably the Gastric Complex. (I can only trial one at a time since DD reacts to almost everything.)
 
#391 ·
Hi changingseasons,
Sorry you haven't gotten any replies yet. I don't know if I can offer much advice, but tell you what I think I would do.

About the EO and the parasites. Is there some other test you can do to check for parasites, like a stool test? I would probably call the HCP back and ask if an EO would be different from ingesting the actual substance. If your LO doesn't have an anaphylactic allergy to it, I might try it. I mean, I think those tests can sometimes give false positives and negatives. I don't know how accurate they are.

I think the best you can do is just jump in and try something. It sounds like, from others' experience, that small reactions did sometimes give way to greater healing. Of course you don't want to give anything that she would be dangerously allergic to, but I do think that it sounds like you need something to jumpstart your gut healing. Can you just pick one your ND recommended that you feel most comfortable with and try that? Don't change anything else. Also, have you considered seeing someone who does constitutional homeopathy as their only thing, and getting a constitutional remedy for both of you? The constitutional remedy my first ds had when he was young really helped with his eczema reactions to things.

Good luck! I am sure others will have good advice for you too.

ETA: Sorry, I just saw that it WAS a stool test you did already. I just saw the part about the saliva. Does your ND think it is a clear indicator that you have parasites? It seems like they would be able to at least guess what chance it is that it's parasites. It seems like we probably all have parasites in one form or another at different times, that may just be the nature of the universe, and it may not necessarily be bad. I think you have to just find what you think is going to most helpful for your health and that of your LO, to support your vital force and get back to balance. I need to take my own advice, so I understand this is really hard.
 
#392 ·
Yeah, it was a stool test.

And I probably should have mentioned- I am actually supposed to ingest the EO's for this treatment (yuck). Which makes it a much higher possibility that DD will react, because they will be in my BM.
 
#393 ·
Could you ask her to just mix you a new batch of it without the cinnamon and lemon? Seems like it might still help, even it might not be as effective. but with that many different things in it anyway.

I don't know, a 50/50 success rate sounds kind of hit or miss. But, if you could get it without the things she is allergic to, and it wouldn't hurt, then it might be worth trying.

Maybe try one of the other ones first? Are you taking any supps now? CLO or other enzymes besides what you listed in that post?
 
#394 ·
Nope, the only thing I'm taking right now is Vitamin C. The next thing I'm going to trial are the enzyme complex she gave me, and then the adrenal one. But I'm still waiting for a call back from that company to see if there is corn in the veggie caps.

ETA: I'm also wanting to (eventually) trial a HVCLO, but DD has reacted to every type of fish and fish oil I've tried (haven't tried straight CLO though) so I'm not very hopeful...
 
#396 ·
Speaking of trying supplements, I just tried something new today. Something that a doctor recommended I give to my child, but I thought I'd try it first, because I really thought it seemed strong. I mentioned it earlier on this thread, it is called Candida Yeast Formula, by Kids Wellness. I only took the child's dose today, 3 times, as directed, and it is giving me pains like I need to have a bowel movement, but I already did. And some slight stomach cramps. It has quite a few strong herbs in it, like pau d'arco, and uva ursi, and others. You are supposed to take high dose probiotics along with it. But that just seems kind of backward. Take something to kill everything off, then take something to put everything back in. That still just seems like the conventional medicine paradigm. I am thinking that instead we need something that will simply help our bodies get back in control, to have the good guys flourishing in there, but living along with the potential bad guys, just kept in check. I don't think I will keep taking this.
 
#397 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by chambom View Post
How do you heal a babies gut? My DD is 6.5 months old and I want to try to cleanse us both.

I know I can give her probiotics directly, but what about the other things that are recommended...

enzymes- should I just take them?

cod liver oil?

fermented foods?

We are struggling with her ability to eat any solids without getting really bad gas.

Enzymes, yes you can take them first if you are bf'ing to help prevent food proteins from going into your bloodstream/milk. I have never used then on DS when he was a baby but the author of Digestive Wellness For Children recs them. What kind of solids is she reacting to? Have you seen the thread in Allergies forum : Introducting Solids to An Allergenic Baby.

I would take the CLO yourself at least a tablespoon or more of Radiant Life which is the high vitamin one with no flavor if you are thinking there are food sensitivies going on (can put in juice).

What probiotics are you using?
 
#398 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by BeingMe View Post
Another couple questions:

1. Starting candex with my 28 month old. According to their site it says to give 1/2 a capsule for 40pds. My daughter is 27 pounds, does this mean 1/4 of a capsule? How am I going to measure 1/4 of a capsule
: ? However, according to the website that sells them my ND wanted me to order from they say: Children: 1 to 2 capsules one-time daily one hour before meals or two hours after meals. Capsules can be swallowed or opened up and mixed into a small amount of liquid. What do you think?
2. When is the best time to give the VSL#3, and what to give it with?
3. Also, what do you think of Taurine for liver support?
4. Anyone here heard of Pyluria?

1. I would do a half capsule.
2. What does their instructions say, with or between meals?
3. Dunno but milk thistle is excellent
4. Yes, it's spelled Pyroluria and it's mentioned briefly in Julia Ross's most excellent book The Mood Cure and lots more info online. Anything the Pfieffer Center says is great source of info. Chief supplements to deal with are B6 (although all B's should be taken as well I think, brewers yeast and liver are great sources) and zinc.
 
#399 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by gilamama View Post
dd1 had mystery diarhea today. i really have no clue wlhat it could have been caused by at all. she has been so stable for so long.
i tend to over analyze things. but maybe this is not an allergy thing? doesnt this "just happen" sometimes?
In our experience if it's not a food reaction it's too many sugars (fruit can be a cause, esp high fructose fruits) or a virus.
 
#400 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by SAmama View Post
Oh, and her poops seem to be either very nice and formed or a bit mushy. Sometimes it smells like cow dung! Anyone know why that would be? (she eats a lot of meat and fat, so it cannot be diet alone, I don't think)
Incomplete digestion of any food can cause smelly stools, including proteins and fats. Super bad smell is usually bacteria related as I understand it.
 
#401 ·
Not sure what to tell you CS since we've never gone that route! But whenever I am stuck I remember that whatever choice I make will at the very least reveal more information to me one way or the other. I will say that momofmine's suggestion for homeopathics sounds interesting to me. I feel we never really gave that a chance due to inability to find good practitioner and DH being against it. I do have regrets about that.
 
#403 ·
I have often wondered that about probiotics. I have read both, empty stomach and with meals, so maybe it depends on the brand. I would call teh company of the specific one you are taking and ask. This says that you should take probiotics on a full stomach, because an enpty stomach is acidic, and so on a full stomach they have a better chance of surviving the gastric acids.

http://drbenkim.com/blog/2005/11/whe...robiotics.html

That makes sense to me. Especially because I have also read that whne you eat probiotics foods, you have a better chance of the probs colonizing your gut, so maybe that is in part because the food reduces the acid. Just speculating there.
 
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