The Power of Probiotics - Page 10 - Mothering Forums

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#271 of 567 Old 12-07-2004, 02:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by amnesiac
For new folks to avoid yogurt all together just because they dislike the flavor of plain would be a far greater sin.
I agree. Savory youghurt dishes may solve that. Adding diced garlic and cucumber, shredded with a bit of oregano and a tablespoon of olive oil is a wonderful dip.

Or adding cumin and serving with curry dishes.

If it is a sweet taste one desires adding a bit of frozen berries, or diced apples, or raisins or currents, or diced date to the finished product should offer a taste of sweetness with the tart yougurt.

(Not dissing you, Amnesiac, just offering alternatives. )
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#272 of 567 Old 12-07-2004, 02:41 PM
 
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Adding diced garlic and cucumber
That really is good. I like to drain my yogurt through cheesecloth & then stir in garlic, and cucumber that has been salted & drained. Super yummy with veggies & pita bread.
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#273 of 567 Old 12-08-2004, 12:30 AM
 
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I have a question about ordering Jarro-dophilus. I'm assuming my whole foods would have it, but vitaminlife is much cheaper. If Jarro needs to be refrigerated (the capsules and the baby powder), how does it survive shipping?

TIA!
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#274 of 567 Old 12-09-2004, 04:35 PM
 
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Hi everyone,

My dh and I started making our own yogurt a couple weeks ago after reading this thread and both batches seem to come out sort of grainy in texture -- is that normal for homemade yogurt that doesn't have the weird additives that commercial yogurt uses to get it creamier? Or are we doing something wrong? Any thoughts? The taste is great but the texture leaves a LOT to be desired. Also: how much probiotics do you put in -- what's the ratio of probiotics in teaspoons or whatnot to the amount of milk used, for example?

I am also going to re-post something about an ongoing problem with 21 mos old dd, to this board, to get any more helpful thoughts.

Thank you!

Claire
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#275 of 567 Old 12-09-2004, 05:12 PM
 
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Sorry, I forgot to talk about that before. I've only ever noticed a more clumpy type texture in 2 situations- when using lower fat milk & at a higher incubation temperature. I have a Donvier machine but I think sometimes the temp is a little too high. Seems that a lower temp, slower fermentation gives you a creamier product. As for the probiotics, I must admit I'm not very scientific. I guess to my half gallon of milk I usually put about ... maybe 1/2 t green label Jarro.
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#276 of 567 Old 12-09-2004, 05:32 PM
 
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Thanks -- our oven is very tricky -- an electric, and the lowest possible setting still brings the temp up to 150 according to an oven thermometer we bought; the only way we can do 110 is by keeping the oven door ajar (which is horrible waste of energy) -- is there a range of acceptable temp? We could keep the oven on but closed and set the yogurt on the stovetop, which gets warm when the oven is being used --

?
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#277 of 567 Old 12-09-2004, 06:20 PM
 
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Usually 110 +/- 5 degrees. That may be the problem -- it may be going too fast in the oven. A couple of other things to try (which I have done before) that may slow it down a bit & give you more of the texture you're looking for:

I tend to do laundry most of the day on Sunday so it's handy to put the yogurt on top of my drier & that keeps it warm. Another thing is that if you have a heating pad like you'd put on your back or something, you can turn it on low, set the yogurt container on top of it & invert a large mixing bowl over the top -- I think Alton Brown suggests lining an ice bucket with the heating pad & placing the yogurt container inside. Also, you can put warm water in a "cooler" like you normally put ice & drinks etc. and put the yogurt container inside there.
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#278 of 567 Old 12-15-2004, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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..out of the abyss for friend.


While I'm at it let me just straighten out the misconception that I awaken anyone-- let alone a lactating mama-- to have wee hour yogurt.

This is catagorically NOT the case. We are well hydrated and often have an early morning pee.

Good that's settled.

And well, since I'm at it, mountain mom, it's pre-biotic, post-biotic and everything in between that I'm looking at that provides the dietary oligosaccharides for the beneficial flora.

The fact is that these indigestible sugars are indigestible to OUR digestive systems, but are then available once they hit the intestines for the flora to feast on. The beans, legumes etc. of most indigenous cultures (I mean just about any traditional culture but the US) have far greater supplies of these soluble fibers than our "modern"-- ie, debased--diet.

There's some great biochemistry in this piece:

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?p...trient&dbid=59


Procreate, Lactate, Disseminate!



Ray

PS If you gotta have sweetener in the yogurt, use a fruit smoothie to mix in it. We make an organic strawberry, banana, mango and papaya (last two not necessarily organic) that is loaded with nutrients-- everything from minerals to digestive enzymes.

PPS Did everyone have their mucilage today? :LOL
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#279 of 567 Old 12-16-2004, 09:32 AM
 
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I take Probiotics and so does dd. Would I need to lower the doage since I am nurisng and she would be getting some from me and her's? Probably not, just want to make sure. We just started them right before I found this thread and she has had looser stools.
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#280 of 567 Old 12-16-2004, 06:01 PM
 
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Whatever she tolerates.



I also got this in my e-mail today in case you haven't seen it before:

Quote:
"To our knowledge, this is the first careful documentation of intake of live bacteria over any extended period of time in any population. The intakes studied can be used as a benchmark for well-tolerated, safe intake of these bacterial agents," the authors write. "Long-term consumption of formulas supplemented with B. lactis and S. thermophilus was well tolerated and safe and resulted in adequate growth, reduced reporting of colic or irritability, and a lower frequency of antibiotic use."
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/468412
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#281 of 567 Old 12-19-2004, 06:47 PM
 
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bumping for Melinda...
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#282 of 567 Old 01-05-2005, 02:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by amnesiac
The shelf stable Jarrow (EPS I think?) has some sort of enteric coating made out of hard to pronounce junk plus each capsule is blister wrapped to protect from air & moisture. It does say on the label that the fridge is preferable though.
It might be a little late to reply regarding the shelf stable Jarrow but oh well. I would only trust that the capsule is protected from air and moisture is the blister is aluminum. Plastic blisters will only slow the permeation of air and moisture into the capsule. I work in pharma (*gasp*) on the stability of tablets and capsules and I know of no coating that will completely protect a capsule from air or moisture. Even if I bought shelf stable Jarrow I would keep it in the fridge. The fridge will always be the best place for those wonderful little organisms.

On a different note, this thread inspired us to buy a yogurt maker and try some on our own. We have always loved yogurt so after reading this thread it was a natural step. We used:
~40 oz. of The Organic Cow of Vermont whole pastuerized milk
1/2 cup of Trader Joe's Organic Cream Line Plain (S. thermophilus, L. bulgaricus, L. acidophilus and bifidus)
1 tsp of Baby Jarrow
I mixed the Jarrow in with the yogurt and then whisked this into the milk after heating to 180 and bringing it back down to 110. I took three bottles from the Girmi after 8 hours and left the other four go until 18 hours. The 18 hour yogurt was firmer but the taste wasn't a whole lot different. Texture was smooth and taste was fantastic! I might have gone overboard with both the Jarrow and yogurt starter but I wanted to make sure it worked.

Unfortunately for my wife, our son has a dairy sensitivity when she eats dairy so I am left to enjoy the yogurt myself for the time being. Our son gets his Jarrow every night before bed though. He is BF already but we thought some more little guys setting up shop in his GI tract probably won't hurt.
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#283 of 567 Old 01-05-2005, 04:47 PM
 
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Thanks for the info on shelf life. I think it is great that you made yogurt. I made all my dd's baby food except the yogurt because the recipe the The Baby Food Book took much time and effort which I did not have enough of at that time.

I made some in College which multiple times which was very easy since we had the heated rooms. I guess I could trythe yogurt thing at home now.
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#284 of 567 Old 01-07-2005, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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...I'm glad that this thread inspired you.

The degree to which your wife's GI flora is able to colonize your son is a question that I think no one has the answer to.

Any conventional meats in the house will bring antibiotics with them to some degree. Other problematic aspects of modern diets have profound,deleterious effects on our GI flora. Although I don't have the proof, lately I've been thinking that any disturbance to the GI flora at any time in a human organisms life creates slight, though permanent damage. Thus the need in our house to regularly consume bacteria that should have established residence.

When I first started making probiotic yogurt I also used some conventional yogurt starter, but decided that I didn't want to take any space away from the most significant bacteria-- those in the powder. Both Jarrow and Ethical Nutrients Acidophilus and Bifidobacteria make perfect, delicious yogurts. In fact, prior to these my wife would not eat plain.

Food allergies which seem to be epidemic in children these days involve a syndrome called "leaky gut." I recently found this info-- the best ever that I've read:

http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.asp?ID=425

This sentence was particularly striking in a clearly unbiased piece:

"A single dose of bacterial endotoxin, administered by injection, increases the gut permeability of healthy humans [87]."



Good luck,


Ray
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#285 of 567 Old 01-07-2005, 01:19 PM
 
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Goodpapa, thanks for that article link --

This is very interesting; a month or two ago I posted about my 22 month dd who suddenly started having persistent diarrhea. She lost her appetite (which wasn't much to begin with) for many of the solid foods she used to enjoy and just nursed even more than usual. Aside from the diarrhea she acted normally but occasionally would grab her lower tummy and wince -- we thought it was gas.

Then one day she got a fever which went away overnight. Then another fever (without any other accompanying symptoms) 2-3 weeks later, again disappearing overnight. Our docs speculated that it could be teething or a UTI. She tested neg for UTI and they tested for parasites, infections, etc. Everything came back neg but there were red AND white blood cells in her stool.

All this time, we'd been giving her Jarro and had started making our own yogurt using Jarro, thanks to this thread. (It was delicious). The doc suggested I avoid gluten for a week or so to see if that changed anything; it didn't. We were then referred to a wonderful naturopath who tested (noninvasive) our dd and dairy and gluten came up as the main offenders that she was showing sensitivity to; and for the most part, coming from my diet as the bf'ing mom.

We're continuing the Jarro for dd, and my dh is finishing off the most recent batch of yogurt (sniffle, sniffle -- I miss it badly) while I try to find dairy free and gluten free things to eat. The article was the first time I had EVER seen (and I've been scouring the Internet for two months trying to figure out what is wrong with dd) that associated fever (with no apparent cause) with food sensitivities. It also seemed to suggest to me that, even though we were giving dd Jarro directly and I was consuming Jarro live cultures via yogurt, that her little digestive system is just too ripped up to deal with any dairy right now.

I am assuming that somewhere down the line, the first (and possibly only) dairy type products I can introduce into her or my diet would be cultured varieties. We've gone totally organic with our meats and fruits and veggies and have learned a lot through this -- the toxins that are everywhere. When I was talking with the naturopath, commenting on how it is interesting how prevalent food allergies, environmental allergies (and all the "drugs" for them) behavioral-related drugs, etc. are in the media and in our culture as a whole, I guess it comes as no surprise when you consider the 24-7 assault on our systems from all sides: the foods we eat, the air we breathe, the way we clean, the plastics, etc. I had already picked up a book by Doris Rapp, "Is This Your Child?" -- re. allergies and related physiological and behavioral issues -- it has been very helpful. Apparently she has a new book out, "Our Toxic World."

Anyway, thank you for the link to that article. I saw things in it that really made sense as far as the "vicious cycle" my little one has been subject to these past few months. Now I'm off to try my hand at soy yogurt...anyone have any luck with such a thing????

Claire
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#286 of 567 Old 01-07-2005, 01:34 PM
 
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weegift: this also might be helpful for you -- I know moms who have used it for babes with GI problems & it has helped:
http://osiris.sunderland.ac.uk/autis...m95.html#fatty
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#287 of 567 Old 01-07-2005, 01:52 PM
 
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Thank you very much for that article Ray.

Has anyone used Saccharomyces boulardii ?

Quote:
Saccharomyces boulardii is a non-pathogenic yeast originally isolated from the surface of lichee nuts. It has been widely used in Europe to treat diarrhea. In France it is popularly called "Yeast against yeast" and is thought to help clear the skin in addition to the gut. Clinical trials have demonstrated the effectiveness for S. boulardii in the treatment or prevention of C. difficile diarrhea, antibiotic diarrhea and traveler's diarrhea[132, 133]. Experimental data suggest that the yeast owes its effect to stimulation of SIgA secretion[134]. SIgA is a key immunological component of gut barrier function.
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#288 of 567 Old 01-07-2005, 01:56 PM
 
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Thanks for the link, Amnesiac! -- though my dd is not autistic, I have noticed that g-f/d-f dietary recommendations for children in the autistic spectrum; which reminds me to write my aunt about that, see if she was aware of it. She works with autistic kiddies and (ironically) is married to someone with celiac.

Forgot to mention in my last post, in the event anyone reads it and sees similarities to their child, and thus finds it helpful, that the naturopath did recommend giving dd jarro daily while we do the elimination diet. Does anyone know if "maltodextrin" has anything to do with gluten? The jarro bottle I have already says it is dairy-free --
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#289 of 567 Old 01-07-2005, 02:06 PM
 
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Hi Jane, I used it (Florastor http://florastor.com/) -- it was recommended to us by our doc office -- it was very yeasty in taste to try to give to our dd (22 mos old) and she fought it tooth and nail. They wanted me to take some since I'm bf'ing and her to take some at the same time. We thought we noticed some very slight improvement in dd's problem (diarrhea) but I think by that point her gut needed healing through eliminating food culprits which we didn't know about at the time. It was highly recommended, though, by the midwife who treated dd, for yeast infections (instead of topical / suppository stuff) and supposedly what it does it sweep out all the bad stuff in the gut. If I had been off of dairy and gluten at the time I used it, we might have made better use of it, but I'm sure my gut benefitted from it anyway :-). If you look on the florastor site it is surprising how much this little organism can do....
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#290 of 567 Old 01-07-2005, 02:37 PM
 
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Maltodextrin is made from corn starch & doesn't have gluten.

I've never used the S. boulardii because I don't think it's as safe as the probiotic bacteria. There are really quite a few cases of fungemia in patients being treated with it -- seemingly moreso than infection with the probiotic bacteria I am aware of -- and that wierds me out. I might use it if good dosing with a bacterial product failed with something like C dif but I'd have to have a really good reason.
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#291 of 567 Old 01-07-2005, 03:57 PM
 
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Thank you Weegift and Amnesiac...
Some reports on s. boulardii does make one think twice:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=262466
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#292 of 567 Old 01-07-2005, 06:44 PM
 
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Another study fresh out this month:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/496959?src=mp
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#293 of 567 Old 01-08-2005, 01:41 PM
 
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Goodpapa,
I'm going to buy a yougurt maker and try to use almond milk as a base. I currently buy baby jarro for my dd who has multiple food allergies and massive yest overgrowth on her skin (4 locations), never had thrush. Could you send the best recipe you know using almond milk? Thanks so much for sharing your yougurt making wisdom.

Moneca mom to Sierra Bear 1/01/04
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#294 of 567 Old 01-08-2005, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've only used goat milk as an alternative to cow and it worked fine. I have no idea about almond milk.

There is, however, a supremely superior food for those little flora friends, you guessed it, mama's milk.

When my son was 3 days old, after my wife's C section (HAD to have the antibiotics) I started taking a little probiotic powder (at that time we had Ethical Nutrients Acidophilus and Bifidorum) on my finger and gently pressing it into his mouth while he nursed. Worked like a charm.

The key, as unpleasant as it may sound, was paying very close attention to the quality of his poops.

When they smelled like yogurt I knew he was gettting enough powder.

Of course Mama was also eating plenty of probiotic yogurts for her intestinal rebuilding as well.

The fact is, without these little bacteria we would most likely have never had our wonderful little boy. The miscarriages due to bacterial vaginosis just wouldn't stop.


Good luck,


Ray

PS I don't necessarily recommend Sacc.Boulardii. We have some, but haven't used it. I would always recommend Lactobacillus and Bifidorum first.

After I experiment on myself and research more I'll share the info.


PPS Again for emphasis: BREASTMILK, BREASTMILK, BREASTMILK ! for those little friendly flora.
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#295 of 567 Old 01-08-2005, 03:15 PM
 
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Goodpapa,
My dd is still breastfed (after pumping every 2 hours for a month to get it back after a bout with the flu left me dry-I absolutely believe in the power of breastmilk!) After reading the whole probiotics thread, I really want to get my dd started on good yogurt in addition to the breastmilk. I'm limited since she is allergic/sensitive to dairy, soy, goatmilk (even the raw version),and wheat :Puke . I have a TON of extra breastmilk in the freezer since she only drinks max 20 oz. per day due to her injured GI system. This may sound horrible, but could I make the yogurt from breastmilk - I know, I know, it sounds like a waste. What do you think? Also, I'm thinking of taking papaya enzyme to increase my enzyme load. Do you think the extra enzymes would make it to my breastmilk to benefit her?

Moneca
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#296 of 567 Old 01-08-2005, 03:21 PM
 
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What an enlightening article. The possible links between various disorders, sensitivities and LGS is an important one for this family. My wife doesn't have any food sensitivities herself but her mother and our son does. My wife however was diagnosed with PCOS but doesn't exhibit any of the outward symptoms normally associated with the disease. Some might even argue that PCOS is an auto-immune disorder, a possible side-effect of LGS. I see some more investigation coming...

Our diet is healthy overall, no meats, few refinded foods, lots of organic beans, grains, vegetables and whole wheat pastas. Though I am tempted every once in a while to eat regular meat while out I remind myself as I look at it that it is probably full of antibiotics. We may go back to meats someday but it will be organic beef. However, since I'm getting ready to head back to grad school (possibly at UNC, btw) organic beef is probably out of the question on my pawltry stipend.

Thanks again for the info.
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#297 of 567 Old 01-08-2005, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I say start culturing the breastmilk.

The culture temp is about 110 F and enzymes don't break down till 118 F so the full nutrient content should be in the yogurt as well.


No point in keeping the milk in the freezer when it can be consumed.

Papaya enzyme is great too. We eat here. I buy papayas to make smoothie (organic strawberry, organic banana, papaya, mango--the last two don't have to be organic and anyway organic for them is almost impossible to find)

I clean the seeds in the papaya, dry them gently (don't want to cook those enzymes) in the oven and put them in a pepper grinder. They're slightly peppery, quite delicious.

ANYTHING you can do to enhance your physical being will enhance your daughter's at this point. We recently went to grassfed beef and cheese to increase Omega 3 and CLA (conjugated linoleic acid-- anticancer compound) among other health benefits. One of which is less saturated fat.

I do believe that high quality animal flesh is important to human health.

Dr. Mercola is a great source of detailed dietary info:

http://www.mercola.com/beef/health_benefits.htm


Procreate, Lactate, Disseminate!


Ray
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#298 of 567 Old 01-08-2005, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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..didn't know what PCOS is but I do now:

http://www.4woman.gov/faq/pcos.htm

Excess insulin sounds like insulin resistance. This is something that I discovered (in the course of researching my wife's borderline hypothyroidism brought on by "excessive" nursing, ie mineral loss, on the part of my son) can be linked to Vit. D deficiency. Here's a sample of what you can read with a "insulin resistance Vitamin D" search. This one mentions PCOS:

http://www.wdxcyber.com/ngen10.htm

Here are the subtleties of getting enough Vit.D from the sun-- the most bioactive form:

http://www.westonaprice.org/nutritio..._vitaminD.html


Do what you like, I'm just giving feedback, but the no meat diet cocnerns me.

Check out the above link to Dr. Mercola. I've recently found a source of grassfed beef that is fantastic and seems relatively inexpensive at least when compared to fish (I've been a grad student and am fully sympathetic to those low income issues):

http://www.lasatergrasslandsbeef.com/

Now, we've bought the family sampler (those grad school years are 10 years back) and it's fantastic. But on the last order I bought some of the stock/soup bones for $2/lb. There's alot of meat on them--it's a small circle of bone with a large ring of meat around it. VERY tasty and I can't think of a more nutritious meal than my whole grain barley (NOT pearled), beef veg soup made with them.

What the conventional food industry has done to beef is simply a crime.
Grassfed beef, as Nature intended it, is life-promoting goodness, plain and simple.

If you do move to the Triangle, let me know. We're in Chatham county just south of Chapel Hill where the livin' is much cheaper and more spacious and beautiful than any area around us. There is a sustainable agriculture movement that promotes a great farmer's market in Carrboro as well as a food coop-- Weaver St. I've met the chickens whose eggs we eat, and as soon as I can get it arranged, will meet the cow for our milk.


Procreate, Lactate, Disseminate!


Ray
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#299 of 567 Old 01-08-2005, 05:05 PM
 
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Hey Ray,
When are you coming over to the NT thread? Sounds like you have lots to offer there too!

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#300 of 567 Old 01-08-2005, 05:58 PM
 
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Goodpapa,
Thank you, thankyou for starting this thread and continuing to provide lactation education. I'm determined to make breastmilk yogurt for my little one. Can I eat yogurt made from cow's milk since I'm still nursing her? If I eat cheese or drink milk she vomits upon drinking my next pump. What do you think?

Moneca
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