The Power of Probiotics - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 567 Old 02-13-2004, 12:26 AM
 
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I made my first attempt at home made yogurt a few days ago.

I used whole milk,
heated it to 185 degrees
let it cool to 115 and added the Yogourmet starter
Put it in a quart mason jar and put in in a cooler with water at 115 degrees.
I let it sit for 4 1/2 hours as the directions say.
It tastes good but has a weird texture, its kind of lumpy. I usually eat Stonyfeild farms yogurt and its very creamy and smooth.
Is lumpy just the nature of homemade, or did i do something wrong?
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#62 of 567 Old 02-13-2004, 01:26 AM
 
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arimama, if it tastes fine, it should be good. You might incubate longer for firmer yogurt. Also, if you use this as starter, the second generation is usually firmer, more uniform. Another thing- did you wisk the powder in? I find a wisk gets it mixed up better than a spoon.

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#63 of 567 Old 02-15-2004, 06:34 PM
 
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I finally got around to using my new yogurt maker that I got for xmas last night! It's a Girmi and has glass jars.

This is what I did: heated a quart of unhomogenized (but pasteurized) organic whole milk up to the boiling point. Let it cool. Whisked in 5 Tbsp organic whole milk yogurt plus 2 tsp. Country Life MaxiBabyDophilus just for kicks. Poured into glass jars that had just been through dishwasher. Put in yogurt maker and plugged in it. Let them do their thing for about 10 hours. Couldn't have been easier!

The result - yummy yummy yogurt! I mixed some organic blueberry preserves (sweetened with grape juice) into it to get ds to eat it, as he wasn't interested in it plain.

Question - why exactly is it necessary to heat and then cool the milk, if it's already pasteurized when you buy it? Anyone know?

And goodpapa, I'd love to see that article from amnesiac about yogurt and kefir counteracting each other? I consume both, and don't know why that would be bad (if it is).

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#64 of 567 Old 02-15-2004, 08:48 PM
 
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Quirky- from what I've read, heating the milk and cooling it helps the yogurt "set" better. It also kills any bacteria or yeasts that got in there while it was sitting around.

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#65 of 567 Old 02-16-2004, 04:23 PM
 
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we have now been making our own yogurt for over one week, and we love it! my husband remembers eating homemade yogurt with a layer of cream at the top. does this mean anything to anybody? how would we produce that?
thanks
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#66 of 567 Old 02-16-2004, 04:30 PM
 
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loloo, if you use whole milk, you should get a layer of cream on top!

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#67 of 567 Old 02-16-2004, 05:06 PM
 
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Cream-top yogurt is the best. I can't wait to crack open a new batch of homemade yogurt. I like it best cold -- I like the cream part to set up a bit in the fridge.

You need *non-homogenized* whole milk fo the cream to be on top.

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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#68 of 567 Old 02-17-2004, 10:28 AM
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#69 of 567 Old 02-17-2004, 12:28 PM
 
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#70 of 567 Old 02-18-2004, 02:28 PM
 
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Amnesiac- Hey hon, your confusing an already confused momma! :LOL

What would you not like to be where???
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#71 of 567 Old 02-18-2004, 02:57 PM
 
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Melissa -- She's referring to EBM's link in the deleted post, so it's irrelevant now.

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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#72 of 567 Old 02-22-2004, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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... in the first post.

L. reuteri and Cryptosporidium--- good vs. evil (at least for us humans)

and a general info link that looked short and sweet.


Procreate, Lactate, Disseminate!



Ray
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#73 of 567 Old 02-23-2004, 08:37 PM
 
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Hey there, here is a question for Goodpapa and anyone else you may know the answer! Can you grow Lacto. salvarius? It is dental specific probiotic and I have only ever seen it in the Udo Erasmus Super five chewable probiotic that also contains 4 other strains of probiotics. Anyone ever heard of this strain? I would love for my dd to have this from a food source everyday to help prevent early decay. (She is statistically at higher risk although so far no decay!)
Thanks for the advice
Colleen
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#74 of 567 Old 02-23-2004, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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...I'll include it here:


Let's clarify for a minute...
All of the bacterium that are called "probiotic" are originally soil-based bacterium.

There are approximately 40,000 different TYPES of bacteria in a teaspoon of soil.

Now, some of them should be in the human body and of course some not.

The first step in culling out the bacterium that we as human animals need is the plant and animal world. Just about every culture and civilization has derived bacterium from animals-- whether directly through animal husbandry or , for instance, in the case some Native Americans, eating the intestines of bison directly after a kill. Most likely, when I can get the raw milk that I should be able to soon, I will take the milk from the healthy animal and culture it simply by heating to 110-115, without the additon of anything. Now, this animal will have to be a grazing animal, and most likely the best bacteria will come in the fall after plenty of grass grazing.

When I start making sauerkraut, should I choose to do it the completely "natural" way, I will put the cabbage in the brine (inhibiting bad bacteria) and wait for the natural lactobacillus that are in the cabbage to start breeding. At this first stage all sorts of bacteria will be breeding (even with the brine) and this is why some culturings fail. In a successful culturing the lactobacillus will take over in time, becoming the predominant bacterium and resulting in a good, tasty sauerkraut. To ensure success I will separate out the whey from my yogurt and add it to the cabbage FROM THE BEGINNING to give the inherent lactobacillus a head start.

What are called "Probiotics" have all been derived from humans--- these are the sources. Thus, they have survived the high-acid stomach conditions.

Without any specific names--- actual scientific names-- I view these HSOs with a great degree of scepticism.

It was the same with KEFIR--- they always compare themselves with "Probiotics"-- claiming greater everything, yet there are never enough details to distinguish them in any meaningful way from "Probiotics."

If someone actually takes these HSOs and reports even feeling "better", as I have with my experience, then I'd be more curious.

So far, everything I've seen claimed about "HSO"s here, can also be said for what are called "Probiotics"---- everything.

So far, HSOs are simply a marketing gimmick.


Ray

PS mountain mom, I have seen L. salvarius kickin' around in my research, though I don't think it's the only one that combats tooth decay.

From what I remember the important thing is to fight Streptococcus Mutans--- the primary cause.

Regular yogurts with just about any Lactobacillus will help.

Why don't you break a tablet and see if it'll culture. I'm very curious. BTW, what are the other strains in the tablet?
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#75 of 567 Old 02-23-2004, 08:48 PM
 
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well, I just got some new Stonyfield "moo-la-la" yogurt, brought it home, looked up the website and found it had L.reuteri ... Cool! But expensive, even on sale.

http://www.stonyfield.com/HealthyFoo...aranteed.shtml

I still can't get my jarrow based milk to culture. Can it be that I got a "bad" bottle of jarrow??

Do you *have* to add powdered milk? I haven't.

thanks
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#76 of 567 Old 02-23-2004, 08:56 PM
 
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Hey good papa thanks for writting back so quick. Here is the website: http://www.udoerasmus.com/products/p...r5_lozenge.htm

We also use the infant blend powder for our dd and I take the adult super 8 daily. In addition to these supplements we culture out own youghurt and make fermented veg every fall such as cabbage, beet carrot ginger "craut".

dinnertime gotta run.....
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#77 of 567 Old 02-23-2004, 10:33 PM
 
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here goodpapa- http://www.kefir.net/kefir4.htm


and this:

Both kefir and yogurt are cultured milk products, but they contain different types of beneficial bacteria. Yogurt contains transient beneficial bacteria that keep the digestive system clean and provide food for the friendly bacteria that reside there. But kefir can actually colonize the intestinal tract, a feat that yogurt cannot match.
Kefir contains several major strains of friendly bacteria not commonly found in yogurt, Lactobacillus Caucasus, Leuconostoc, Acetobacter species, and Streptococcus species. It also contains beneficial yeasts, such as Saccharomyces kefir and Torula kefir, which dominate, control and eliminate destructive pathogenic yeasts in the body. They do so by penetrating the mucosal lining where unhealthy yeast and bacteria reside, forming a virtual SWAT team that housecleans and strengthens the intestines. Hence, the body becomes more efficient in resisting such pathogens as E. coli and intestinal parasites.

Kefir's active yeast and bacteria provide more nutritive value than yogurt by helping digest the foods that you eat and by keeping the colon environment clean and healthy.
Because the curd size of kefir is smaller than yogurt, it is also easier to digest, which makes it a particularly excellent, nutritious food for babies, invalids and the elderly, as well as a remedy for digestive disorders.
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#78 of 567 Old 02-24-2004, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've seen that site before, though I appreciate your posting it to discuss.

In the case of MY yogurt, the following simply isn't true:

"Yogurt contains transient beneficial bacteria that keep the digestive system clean and provide food for the friendly bacteria that reside there. But kefir can actually colonize the intestinal tract, a feat that yogurt cannot match."

The two different yogurts that I make have bacteria that actually have come from the GI tracts of human beings. They are extracted, purified, and cultured. So they in fact DID colonize the GI tract of the donating individuals and are naturally found in humans.

On other KEFIR sites I have seen them emphasize, in fact, that Kefir must be eaten every day or the bacteria will dissipate. Quite confusing. Ultimately, if Kefir were permanent all that would be necessary would be one serving.

As far as this claim:

"Kefir's active yeast and bacteria provide more nutritive value than yogurt by helping digest the foods that you eat and by keeping the colon environment clean and healthy."

MORE "nutritive value" , where are the details? This type of commentary is one of the reasons for this thread. I think I've documented quite extensively the specific bacteria and their extensive nutritional and health aspects.

I still haven't seen any info on the need to supplement our diets with yeast. I get so much in the natural breads I eat and if anything yeast seems to be more of problem from what I've seen on these boards. And yes, I know there are different yeasts but I want to see clear info that the type of yeast in kefir is distinct from the types in my breads and beneficial.

I still am going to try Kefir. Amanda (Gale Force) has generously offered her grains--- I'm just waiting for her to finish moving (I'm sure she's got more than enough to do--- I'm a veteran of the moving wars myself).

What bothers me about most of the Kefir sites is that they are all very similar to the one you posted.

It turns into a pissing contest, without any hard facts.

Can't we all just get along?

:LOL


Everyone get Cultured!

PS Colleen---don't know why but I can't get the PDF informational file to load yet from the website. I'll keep trying.
As far as making " fermented veg every fall such as cabbage, beet carrot ginger "craut"."

I'll be asking you for more details once I get started fermenting. The beet carrot ginger craut sounds fantastic--- what a nutritional powerhouse!

Barbara-- it's time to test your yogurt maker to see if it's holding the right temp. Heat plain water, pretend your making yogurt, and test the temp of the water after a few hours to see if it's still in the target zone. I'm sure your Jarrow is just fine. I have two yogurt makers when I do my batches. One runs hotter, one runs colder. I set them both for 2 hours and then switch them out to even out the culturing temp. I'm pretty sure the one time I lost my culture was by overheating and essentially cooking them. They have to be at 110-115 F for optimal breeding. One interesting factoid I came upon recently in researching enzymes is that temps higher than 118 F destroy them. Remember cultured products are rich in enzymes. The lactose (sugar) in milk is converted by our little friends into the enzyme lactase. This is why my wife is no longer lactose intolerant as she was when I met her. She now has the necessary internal bacteria to digest the milk.
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#79 of 567 Old 02-24-2004, 01:13 PM
 
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I thought my ears were burning.

Ray -- my life has been crazy for two years and will be crazy for at least six more months with this move. We've actually got the house and are moving into it slowly and will list our house in the next two weeks. Who knows how long the move will actually take. The weather is decent now for a shipment, so we should do it soon. I don't plan to dehydrate them, just send them as-is, so it's important that we do it this winter.

This is an interesting discussion and I look forward to fermenting more foods in the future. The new house has a very big kitchen, so we've got all kinds of space for kitchen experiments. The book "Wild Fermentation" is on my wish list. Perhaps I'll wait on it, though, and get it at the new address.

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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#80 of 567 Old 02-24-2004, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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....thanks for checking in.

I PM'd you.


I've got the Wild Fermentation book and it's full of detailed info on all kinds of culturing.

As I get started in the next couple of weeks, I'll be disseminatin' all of the stinky details.

Get started looking for crock pots. Apparently they're not so easy to find anymore. There are alot of potters here in central NC so I'm looking for a good supply.


Ray the soon to be Kefir King
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#81 of 567 Old 02-24-2004, 04:33 PM
 
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So I've been packing the car and thinking about my summer. My mom and I are going to go on our super-strict anti-candida diet this summer when the mvoe is over and the garden is in full swing. I think we've learned enough that we might be able to lick it. When I've been on the diet before, I've been very food-sensitive because the diet is so clean. So, I am going to try both of Ray's yogurts this summer while on the diet (the bacteria is going to be key to success anyway). And just to make it more interesting, I am going to have my chiro muscle test Ray's yogurt, my (probably) crappy yogurt, and my kefir. I don't know if we'll be able to distinguish too much -- it may just be "this is good, this is bad" as opposed to some scale of bacteria paradise. And the results also will be specific to my body, but I think it will be interesting nonetheless.

I've also got a glass gallon jar for you Melissa if you want to size up.

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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#82 of 567 Old 02-24-2004, 07:00 PM
 
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WOOO HOO!!!! You betcha! THANKS Amanda!!
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#83 of 567 Old 02-25-2004, 02:54 PM
 
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How about amasake? Anyone make their own amasake? It is a staple in our house but is so darn expensive. Yet another way to have a daily dose of probiotic through food source. My dd loves it, especially the almond flavour!
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#84 of 567 Old 02-25-2004, 03:35 PM
 
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Elaborate pleeeease!!
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#85 of 567 Old 02-25-2004, 04:47 PM
 
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Amasake is fermented rice milk. Here are the ingredients: Filtered Water, organic brown rice, organic almonds (or other nuts or fruit such as blueberries, this ingredient can be left out), vanilla, culture, celtic sea salt.
It is sooooooo yummy, tastes like a milk shake, thick and creamy.
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#86 of 567 Old 02-25-2004, 05:07 PM
 
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ohh that looks good. have you made your own?
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#87 of 567 Old 02-25-2004, 05:11 PM
 
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No I have never made amasake. I wonder if you would make milk out of the rice first then ferment it with the culture or would you ferment everything then strain. I can't imagine it would be too hard just wondering if anyone out there has a recipe. I would assume one could find the recipe in a macrobiotic cook book or website.
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#88 of 567 Old 02-26-2004, 05:48 AM
 
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http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/15066

Analisa, Mama to Meg 12/12/01, Patrick 12/24/03, Catherine 12/24/03, Ben 2/26/06
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#89 of 567 Old 02-26-2004, 02:02 PM
 
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Thanks megs mom you rock!!!
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#90 of 567 Old 03-03-2004, 03:16 PM
 
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Just thought I'd come tell someone who cares...

DH made his very first batch of homemade yogurt last week and boy is it yummy!! No yogurt maker he rigged up his own system and we both found it to be much easier than we anticipated!!

Dd loves it too.

How do you all flavor? We do sometimes add fresh fruit, but we love the vanilla flavor of the Stoneyfield stuff we *use* to buy. Can I just add some vanilla extract?

Tonight we are meeting a local person who has some kefir grains they are going to share with us.

I am so excited that we are going to have our own homemade yummy probiotics. The expense of this was really getting to us (almost $4 per container of Stoneyfield in this area and the the three of us could easily take out three containers of week + kefir)

Anyhow, just wanted to share! Hope ya'll are having fun "getting cultured" :LOL
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