The Power of Probiotics - Page 9 - Mothering Forums
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#241 of 567 Old 11-17-2004, 01:31 PM
 
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Ray, I'm doing much better, thanks so much for thinking of me.


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Originally Posted by goodpapa
Soup bones for stock, chunks of beef, carrots, celery, root veggies, mushrooms (this is the very expensive part) like shitake, maitake, matsutake, oyster, etc. But even with minimal or simple button mushrooms, this is dynamite nutrition, and as cheap as it gets.
this is what we live on in winter
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#242 of 567 Old 11-18-2004, 01:16 PM
 
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Hi!
I am ready to make yogurt!!

I have Maxi baby-dophilus by Country Life at home right now. It has 3 strains of lactobacillius and 3 strains of bifidobacterium. Can I use this alone as a starter? I am planning to get the "good stuff" like goodpapa recommends but I thought this might work for now. Also this probiotic is a powder so I am not sure how much to use. I figured the recommendation of 6 capsules per 6 oz would translate to 6 "servings" and each serving is 1/4 tsp.

Thanks!
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#243 of 567 Old 11-18-2004, 04:56 PM
 
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Hi all,
This has been a fascinating and inspiring thread! Because of it, I bought a yogurt maker and am preparing to make my first batch this weekend.

I have a Eurocuisine, which is quite similiar to the Girmi. I was reading the instruction booklet and it mentioned that it can be made without heating the milk. Make sure that the milk warms to room temperature before adding the culture and incubate. What would happen, it states, is that the yogurt would be less firm.

Is there any other reason why one might not want to try making it this way? I didn't know if by not heating the milk much of the beneficial properties would be lost.
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#244 of 567 Old 11-19-2004, 02:19 AM
 
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heket, I have the girmi yogurt maker (the flat wide one) and one thing I do to increase the quantity is to substitute four pint canning jars + one of the yogurt maker's small jars to get a half gallon of yogurt (plus the extra from adding starter).

I set the lid on top of the jars- it sits up high, then throw a dish towel over the whole thing and this always works.

I always scald the milk to kill any yeasts or bacteria that got in there while it sat on the shelf, but you'd probably be fine without. Maybe some of the experts will check in.

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#245 of 567 Old 12-05-2004, 11:47 AM
 
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I always scald mine as well because 1) same reason monnie said AND 2) the heat does something to the proteins that will give you a firmer product as your instructions mention. I also add milk powder to mine.
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#246 of 567 Old 12-05-2004, 01:06 PM
 
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Just want to post my favorite sweetener...
Stevia Plus with FOS to help the probiotics grow and colonize:
http://www.sweetleaf.com/products/sw...steviaplus.htm

Something Goodpapa said jogged my memory about powdered milk, that it was very bad for you... does anyone have any links on this?
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#247 of 567 Old 12-05-2004, 07:01 PM
 
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I didn't find what Ray said about powdered milk, but I don't see how powdered skim milk would be any worse for you than fluid skim milk. If you buy powdered milk that has fat in it though, the lipids will oxidize which isn't good for you.
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#248 of 567 Old 12-05-2004, 11:48 PM
 
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babe asleep in arms

hello! I am very new to healthy eating : but am really trying to learn. i read all 13 pages here and all ray's links- to be honest the links were too scientific for me so I'm going to get dh to read all this. I'm sure I'll have a million questions- but one main one noe. I had read about the probiotics helping to eliminate mecury- is this safe while breastfeeding? I have 4 fillings and once got the flu shot 3 yrs ago : (stupid.stupid). Would the elimination of mercury be passed into breastmilk?
Thanks so much
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#249 of 567 Old 12-06-2004, 12:08 PM
 
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As far as I am aware, the probiotic bacteria are going to only be able to detoxify mercury as it passes through the GI tract. Say you eat some tuna with mercury in it or maybe trace amounts of mercury from fillings is swallowed, the bacteria will act on that. They cannot have any effect on liberating mercury that is stored in tissue elsewhere like brains & bones. So you wouldn't expect them to increase mercury content of your milk because they aren't liberating stored mercury into the bloodstream like you might see with chelation.
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#250 of 567 Old 12-06-2004, 01:00 PM
 
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THank you so much
I have another question, I live in Canada, in a small rural part, so access to a lot of whole food stores is pretty much limited. We have a Nutrition House, and on there website is probbiotics. They have one listed: http://www.nutritionhouse.com/page79.html

Is this a good one? I really don't know anything about probiotics except from this thread that I read yesterday. Also, since I've very new at all this, I won't be making my own yogurt- in fact I'm just learning how to cook :
The yogurt we've started to buy is "Liberty Mediterranee with Active Acidophilus and bifidus cultures" I was getting fruit flavoured, but will look for plain. Is this an ok yogurt? And I just realized is has the acidophilus and bifidus culture, so will the one at Nutrition House plus this be too much?
Thanks again everyone, I'm learning so much from you guys
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#251 of 567 Old 12-06-2004, 03:16 PM
 
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Hi all,

Please advise. My dd is 21 mos old, healthy as a horse (by the doc's admission in two recent and very expensive office visits! grr) but has had diarrhea for over two months now. In late September, she and I both had colds. I noticed at the end of our illness, while she was bf'ing (still bf's on demand and eats inconsistently in the way of solids) that she had white patches in the corners of her mouth. I looked further and saw what I felt must be thrush; neither she nor I had ever had this since her birth. It seemed to go away w/in a week's time, though. Not long after that (early-mid Oct) her poops went from bf+solids type stool to total squirty diarrhea. She did not have a fever or vomiting; was not acting unlike herself. I figured maybe it was some food she tried that didn't agree with her. The diarrhea continued; thought I might be pregnant, since hormonal changes in mom can cause this; tested negative. Finally went to doc and they suspected yeast; told us to give her a capsule's worth of Florastor (which is absolutely nasty and was torture to try to make her swallow it, no matter what form). We persisted but no improvements. Thrush, meanwhile, would sort of appear and then disappear over the weeks. Second visit to doc ($140 later!!) and doc wants tests done for parasites, blood, etc. My gut feeling was that it isn't these things, so I eliminated virtually all sugar from my diet and hers for a week, and I started eating yogurt daily and taking acidophilus daily, AND we got some jarrodophilus (not baby version but another that says 1/8 t. for babies) and gave that to her every day, hiding it in something. By week's end we saw her stools "seem" to firm up just a bit -- went from explosive watery stuff to a pile of stuff with the heft of applesauce, maybe (sorry to be graphic). Then we went out to a kid's museum and within hours of returning she got a fever of 102.8 and fell asleep for most of the evening, woke up totally normal and fever free the next morning (related to diarrhea or just a bug she beat b/c she's so darn healthy??? I don't know!!) But we missed one day of jarro and her poops are watery again. Sometimes she holds the lower part of her tummy like something hurts, and it often seems to end up being gas. We want this to GO AWAY. What else can we try? B/c of the concurrent thrush, it seems like it is all yeast related. Should we get parasite tests done or not bother? Should we be giving her more than 1/8 teaspoon daily? My gut tells me it is yeast but if so, it seems to have a very strong grip on her system and we need to know what to do to "knock it out of the park". ANY SUGGESTIONS would be much appreciated!! Sorry for the long post.

THANK YOU!
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#252 of 567 Old 12-06-2004, 03:46 PM
 
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Expect it to take several months of consistent dosage to really fix messed up flora. Whatever dosage she tolerates is good. Sometimes if there's a problem it can take a bit higher dosage to be effective. I also like to use supplemental zinc for yeasty beasties.
http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/3-nut/411-zinc.htm


Hbbg, whatever you can get your hands on is good -- something is better than nothing, right? Whatever you tolerate is fine. If you start feeling too gassy/bloated etc, just back off the amount until you are comfortable. If you just want to do the yogurt alone, that's good too.
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#253 of 567 Old 12-06-2004, 06:49 PM
 
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Wow -- that long? The doc ordered over $800 of tests and we have to pay entirely out of pocket so, while we want our dd to heal from whatever is going on, we are not big on the idea of unnecessary tests either. Does this definitely sound like yeast though? I was reading on another board about milk protein allergies & diarrhea and I began to wonder if that could be a possibility also, but I thought something like that would have popped up with dd long before now, if she was reacting poorly to dairy proteins in my diet via breastmilk.

Claire
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#254 of 567 Old 12-06-2004, 07:17 PM
 
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Yes, you notice improvement sooner, but to really get the balance under control it takes much longer. Anything that causes disruption of mucosal integrity (yeast or other infection) can result in food sensitivity. That's a lot of tests & being that I don't carry insurance right now, I totally feel your hesitation. I think you have to go with whatever feels right to you.

I think perhaps if it were me.... if I gave her the probiotic & it was helping, and symptoms worsened when I slacked off, I'd give that a bigger try before I went for more testing. I'd probably give my dd a dose first thing in the morning with a full glass of water/juice/whatever (dilutes stomach acid which is at the lowest level first thing in the morning) and another couple of doses throughout the day with one being at bedtime and see how she tolerated it. I'd give her as much as she could tolerate without becoming too gassy or uncomfortable. And if I saw no improvement after a couple of weeks, then I might think about some testing or re-evaluating my plan.
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#255 of 567 Old 12-06-2004, 07:36 PM
 
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Claire,

I have been going through the same thing with my dd who is 33 months old. Almost a year ago she started having diarrhea. Lots of tests later, I am figuring out many of her intolerances. She had a persistent yeast rash when she was a baby. I think the yeast destroyed her system. RIght now she has several food intolerances. She may have Celiac disease but that is not definite (gluten intolerance). Please try to get control of the yeast before it gets really bad. I am sorry I am not much help.

I am feeling really upset about this right now. I now have a 3 month old and she has started having persisent yeast rashes now as well. I am treating her with nystatin 3 x a day but in between applications, the yeast creeps back. I am trying to do an antiyeast diet and I am taking probiotics and trying to get the baby started on some. I am so depressed about this. I went through so many tests and heartache with my other dd, I do NOT want my baby going through the same thing.
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#256 of 567 Old 12-06-2004, 08:28 PM
 
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Mel, that's terrible! How awful for your dd. And for you! Well, given that my dd doesn't eat a LOT of solids (seems interested some days, but not on others) I feel at least partly to blame via bf'ing. And when I thought back, I remembered I actually had a yeast infection on my skin (and not even in a "skin fold" or whatever) in the summer so my system was out of whack anyway. Cutting back severely on sugar last week I ended up getting headaches for several days which made me also think I was too dependent on sugars in my diet!

--Claire
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#257 of 567 Old 12-06-2004, 08:52 PM
 
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The headaches are probably from yeast dying off. It should get better after a week or two. Check out the recent thread on yeast. You should be taking probiotics yourself too. My 33 mo was slow with solids too. Maybe just a coincidence.. maybe not! The allergist said something like, she probably nursed so long without solids because it was healthiest for her damaged system. My dd did not eat solids much until I was pregnant last January.
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#258 of 567 Old 12-06-2004, 09:22 PM
 
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How interesting -- I'd heard of yeast die-off before but didn't realize that's what was happening -- what might symptoms be for my dd if I am giving her probiotics every day and she is also experiencing die-off, I wonder? I am taking acidophilus every day and eating yogurt (which I love anyway -- we "made" our first batch at home last week and it was easier than I thought it would be!) every day as well. If I try to eliminate dairy from my diet and see if that eases her situation, I wonder if yogurt can be an exception that I can keep in my diet, since it is cultured?

Sometimes I get frustrated with doctors; I know some really try but others seem so quick to order rounds of tests (at Christmas time no less -- $$!?) without really trying to be more of a detective about the situation/concern, working WITH you.

--Claire
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#259 of 567 Old 12-06-2004, 09:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesiac
I always scald mine as well because 1) same reason monnie said AND 2) the heat does something to the proteins that will give you a firmer product as your instructions mention. I also add milk powder to mine.
Amnesiac, what is your yogurt recipe that includes powdered milk? Do you find that the powdered milk creates a different texture? Do you use it instead of reg. milk or in addition to? When my dh and I made yogurt last week, the taste was great but it was sort of grainy somehow -- we used lowfat reg. organic milk + organic plain yogurt as starter. Is it better to use acidophilus powder?

Claire
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#260 of 567 Old 12-06-2004, 11:03 PM
 
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In a large saucepan I whisk together whole milk, powdered milk, vanilla & sugar then heat it until you see steam rising from the surface. Remove from heat, cool, then add starter as you did & probiotic powder. I culture mine in a yogurt machine for 5 hours.
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#261 of 567 Old 12-06-2004, 11:28 PM
 
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If you have any lactose sensitivity, it's good to culture the yogurt for at least 24 hours to eat up the lactose. Someone probably already said that but I haven't looked at the earlier pages in awhile. The yogurt is more tart, though- but we all tolerate it better.

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#262 of 567 Old 12-07-2004, 12:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesiac
In a large saucepan I whisk together whole milk, powdered milk, vanilla & sugar then heat it until you see steam rising from the surface. Remove from heat, cool, then add starter as you did & probiotic powder. I culture mine in a yogurt machine for 5 hours.
I really have to step in and caution about the sugar. I hope I don't step on any toes, but if one is using youghurt to help flood the system with healthy bacteria, compat yeast, improve food sensitivities, eliminate ezcema etc. then it is vital to elimate sugar all together.

If anyone is battling yeast/candida/thrush then not only should refined sugars such as white sugar, brown sugar etc be eliminated but so should things like honey, molasses, date sugar, maple syrup etc.

It is redundant to use sugar with youghurt, the sugar feeds the candida which will overpower the probiotice, if the system is overridden with it(candida).

As well as the 'turf' war that occurs when you consume sugar with probiotics, you literally shut off the immune system when consuming sugar thus the body has a hard time digesting due to the mucousal lining of the digestive system being partial comprised of immune tissue.

I could go on and on but I won't :LOL

Again, I just wanted to issue a caution in regards to sugar.
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#263 of 567 Old 12-07-2004, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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...I've recently returned from the land of "Sheer Curiosity".

I'd been pondering how we can best feed the intestinal flora once they set up shop inside and discovered that there are in fact "sugars" in the form of soluble fiber called "oligosaccharides" that our flora feast on. There's an amazing amount of info out there:

"Human digestive enzymes have little or no effect on raw starch and polysaccharides such as cellulose, pectin, hemicellulose, and pentosan; and oligosaccharides such as melibiose, raffinose, stachyose, fructo-oligosaccharides, isomalto-oligosaccharides, and galacto-oligosaccharides. These substances are hydrolysed to varying degrees and digested by colonic bacteria with the production of organic acids, mainly volatile fatty acids (acetate, propionate, and butyrate), and gas (carbon dioxide and hydrogen). Small amounts of lactic, formic and succinic acids are also produced. Methane may be produced in some people.

Most Bifidobacterium species metabolise a wide rage of indigestible polysaccharides and oligosaccharides to acetic and lactic acids and subsequently act as effective scavengers in the large intestine, when many oligosaccharides are ingested in the diet, while E. col 1000 i and C. perfringens do not."


http://www.healthyeatingclub.org/APJ...1/mitsuoka.htm


So if we eliminate processed sugar, ie, simple sugars which easily feed the bad bacteria (as mountain mom wisely advises) and increase the complex sugars that support the friendly, we dramatically enhance the intestinal environment. To me it's now easy to see how destructive the modern diet is to our flora.


http://ific.org/foodinsight/2003/ma/...ybugsfi203.cfm


Also, my wife and I now eat our probitic yogurts in the wee hours of the morning when the digestive system is basically shut down. Pregnant and lactating women have enhanced stomach acids to derive as much nutrition as possible from food. This increases the difficulty of getting the bacteria through the stomach and into the intestines. We eat one or two yogurts with two bananas for the oligosaccharides, drink a good deal of non-tap water (non-chlorinated--Evian is the choice here) and head back to bed.


With a huevos rancheros breakfast-- corn tortilla, farm fresh eggs and especially BLACK BEANS (another supreme source of oligosaccharides) the previous nights new inhabitants have plenty of food to set up shop.


Today's the day for sauerkraut!-- freshly picked cabbage from Periwinkle Farms (it's soooo sweet--but that sugar WILL already be digested when we eat the cabbage), prepared whey sittin' in the fridge, and a couple of jars, I'm ready to GO!

Looks like we're gonna......


.....GET CULTURED!




Ray
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#264 of 567 Old 12-07-2004, 12:12 PM
 
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Quote:
It is redundant to use sugar with youghurt, the sugar feeds the candida which will overpower the probiotic
I'm afraid I disagree. It's much more complex than that. We have found our recipe (using 1/4-1/3 C rapadura per 1/2 gal milk) to successfully assist in correcting eczema, allergic rhinitis, food hypersensitivity, thrush and post-antibiotic dysbiosis.



Ray, are you telling me that you set your alarm clock to eat yogurt & bananas in the middle of the night? That cracks me up! :LOL
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#265 of 567 Old 12-07-2004, 12:27 PM
 
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I culture my yogurt for 24 hours as well to reduce the lactose content. I sweeten it with stevia after it's cultured if I want it sweet.

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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#266 of 567 Old 12-07-2004, 12:32 PM
 
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I don't know Ray, with depression that comes with yeast problems and with pregnancy in general, getting up in the middle of the night seems like a bad idea. I can see something like that towards the end of recovery, but good sleep is so dear to new moms that I couldn't see actively disrupting it even for good bacteria. Probably the most important variable for us gals here, and probably your wife as well, is time. It's taken 18 months making a concerted effort to have some glimpse of my pre-pregnant self healthwise. I think it was the overall effort and consistency all of those months that have finally paid off.

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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#267 of 567 Old 12-07-2004, 12:36 PM
 
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Oh, definitely report back on the kraut. I haven't done any yet. ANd so far with what I have attempted, I am about 50/50.

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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#268 of 567 Old 12-07-2004, 01:05 PM
 
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Ray, the catch phrase for what you described is "prebiotic". Preparing the digestive tract to handle the probiotic.

Chicory is very high in these factors too.
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#269 of 567 Old 12-07-2004, 01:16 PM
 
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Amnesiac, I am glad you have found success with your recipe.

I am concerned that the new people on board will assume from your original recipe that called for 'sugar' that its okay to include white sugar in the process of youghurt making. Which is isn't. Including unrefined sugars such as the rapadura or brown rice syrup or barley malt is borderline dodgy in my opinion.

Sugar of all kinds feed the bacteria (not just candida) that the probiotic is trying to overcome. Thus balance to the intestinal tract is slowed down when sugars are involved.

Ray's post sheds good light on the way to prepare the intestinal tract to absorb the probiotic more successfully.

When there is chronic digestive issues sugars in the refined state should be elimated. The body's immune system is fighting hard enough to maintain balance without being shocked into a non-response by sugars.

Some types of sugars are better than others but if there is a history of digestive illness and weakness why stress the body furthur.

I only wanted to bring this up due to the high number of new posters recently so there would be no confusion regarding the hazards of sugar and the digestive and immune systems of the body.
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#270 of 567 Old 12-07-2004, 02:30 PM
 
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And when I've been out of rapadura I've even added sinful white sugar. For new folks to avoid yogurt all together just because they dislike the flavor of plain would be a far greater sin. Things don't have to be done hardcore to still be effective -- something is better than nothing. Not that a lot of sugar is a great thing, mind you.


Quote:
Sugar of all kinds feed the bacteria
Including probiotic bacteria.
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