Everyone taking your D? NO vitamin D is being made in northern latitudes right now. - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 84 Old 11-18-2008, 10:24 PM
 
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According to their calculator thing on a sunny day in November, I only need 25% of my body exposed for 14 minutes to get 1000IUs.
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#62 of 84 Old 11-19-2008, 04:35 PM
 
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Shelled hemp seeds have 956IU of Vitamin D in 4 heaping tablespoons.

http://www.healing-source.com/about_HempFoods.htm
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#63 of 84 Old 11-19-2008, 06:47 PM
 
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According to their calculator thing on a sunny day in November, I only need 25% of my body exposed for 14 minutes to get 1000IUs.
That's the one I linked earlier, right? With lots of inputs like latitude, longitude, skin type, all that?

I feel guilty because Jane cited a study that showed that there's a vitamin D winter (no vitamin D production, I mean) in the northern US--Boston was included, not sure what latitude the cut-off was. But I put in Boston and my lovely calculator does not reflect that, so I'm not sure where the error is. Since the study measured real people in the sun not making D, I think the calculator doesn't show the real drop-off in the winter at higher latitudes. May not affect things so much where I am (Houston area) but it sounds like at least the top third of the continental US in winter is wrong.
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#64 of 84 Old 11-19-2008, 07:30 PM
 
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I have been talking to a friend IRL this week who had LOTS of sunshine during summer without sunscreen. We live in MA. And she had been taking 850 IU of D per day in CLO plus other amounts of D from food.

And her blood levels are very deficient right now, at 20.
So supplementing with vitamin D didn't get rid of her deficiency? That makes me suspect that her intake isn't the problem.
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#65 of 84 Old 11-19-2008, 08:52 PM
 
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So supplementing with vitamin D didn't get rid of her deficiency? That makes me suspect that her intake isn't the problem.
so what do you suspect is the problem?

I'd love to use hemp seeds (esp being off dairy for allergies and a lot of meat maked me sick--it would be great protein too) however too much moolag to dish out--sheesh!
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#66 of 84 Old 11-19-2008, 09:08 PM
 
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so what do you suspect is the problem?

I'd love to use hemp seeds (esp being off dairy for allergies and a lot of meat maked me sick--it would be great protein too) however too much moolag to dish out--sheesh!
What's is that? Moolah? Money. It's not that expensive if you compare it to a quality piece of organic free range meat.


Direct Orders - Way cheaper than buying at your HFS.

http://www.healing-source.com/orders_10.htm
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#67 of 84 Old 11-20-2008, 02:19 AM
 
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What's is that? Moolah? Money. It's not that expensive if you compare it to a quality piece of organic free range meat.


Direct Orders - Way cheaper than buying at your HFS.

http://www.healing-source.com/orders_10.htm
that's true--I hadn't thought of it that way!!!
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#68 of 84 Old 11-20-2008, 02:21 AM
 
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everyone:Carlson's vitamin D drops--dairy free? used them?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been trying to figure out this vitamin D supplementation thing and have been pretty stressed out about what to do.

honesty (and maybe I'm wrong) but right now I don't feel I like to take synthetic vitamins--I try to get us all we need through our diet (and green smoothies)--and kind fo don't believe in supplementation (in a small sense)

anyway I am starting to feel that maybe the only exception is Vitamin D--do I need it? do my kids? and my BFing daughter? (PLEASE don't attack me--it seems everyone around here supplements everything and so I'm sure you all disagree)

anyway--I've looked into a couple--and think I like the idea of these carlson liquid (one drop) kind---derived from coconut oil- I think

this link lists the ingredients but doesn't say dairy free---are we to assume they ARE diary free and that's why they don't state it--or do we know they have dairy? (i think someone around herr called or emailed the company and got an asnwer and I can't find it!) THANKS!

http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-Vita...ngredientFacts


JANES--do you think carlsons are natural enough and good--or do you stick to thining CLO is best?
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#69 of 84 Old 11-20-2008, 05:49 AM
 
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What's is that? Moolah? Money. It's not that expensive if you compare it to a quality piece of organic free range meat.


Direct Orders - Way cheaper than buying at your HFS.

http://www.healing-source.com/orders_10.htm
Those bars are SO VERY YUMMY!!!! And I felt so much better physically and mentally when I was eating them...I need to order some

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#70 of 84 Old 11-20-2008, 11:15 AM
 
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everyone:Carlson's vitamin D drops--dairy free? used them?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been trying to figure out this vitamin D supplementation thing and have been pretty stressed out about what to do.

honesty (and maybe I'm wrong) but right now I don't feel I like to take synthetic vitamins--I try to get us all we need through our diet (and green smoothies)--and kind fo don't believe in supplementation (in a small sense)

anyway I am starting to feel that maybe the only exception is Vitamin D--do I need it? do my kids? and my BFing daughter? (PLEASE don't attack me--it seems everyone around here supplements everything and so I'm sure you all disagree)

anyway--I've looked into a couple--and think I like the idea of these carlson liquid (one drop) kind---derived from coconut oil- I think

this link lists the ingredients but doesn't say dairy free---are we to assume they ARE diary free and that's why they don't state it--or do we know they have dairy? (i think someone around herr called or emailed the company and got an asnwer and I can't find it!) THANKS!

http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-Vita...ngredientFacts


JANES--do you think carlsons are natural enough and good--or do you stick to thining CLO is best?
I do not take any supplements. I would rather spend my money on high quality foods. Try the hemp seeds in yogourt or sprinkled on a salad if you are worried about not enough VitD
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#71 of 84 Old 11-20-2008, 04:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LBMarie9 View Post
everyone:Carlson's vitamin D drops--dairy free? used them?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been trying to figure out this vitamin D supplementation thing and have been pretty stressed out about what to do.

honesty (and maybe I'm wrong) but right now I don't feel I like to take synthetic vitamins--I try to get us all we need through our diet (and green smoothies)--and kind fo don't believe in supplementation (in a small sense)

anyway I am starting to feel that maybe the only exception is Vitamin D--do I need it? do my kids? and my BFing daughter? (PLEASE don't attack me--it seems everyone around here supplements everything and so I'm sure you all disagree)

anyway--I've looked into a couple--and think I like the idea of these carlson liquid (one drop) kind---derived from coconut oil- I think

this link lists the ingredients but doesn't say dairy free---are we to assume they ARE diary free and that's why they don't state it--or do we know they have dairy? (i think someone around herr called or emailed the company and got an asnwer and I can't find it!) THANKS!

http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-Vita...ngredientFacts


JANES--do you think carlsons are natural enough and good--or do you stick to thining CLO is best?
I've been using the Carlson's drops for about two weeks now. The bottle specifically states that it is sugar-free, soy-free, wheat-free, corn-free, and gluten-free. I find it odd that it doesn't mention dairy-free. Do we assume that it isn't dairy-free? Other ingredients listed are fractionated coconut oil. I remember from a previous post that this vitamin d was derived from lanolin.
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#72 of 84 Old 11-20-2008, 06:38 PM
 
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I've been using the Carlson's drops for about two weeks now. The bottle specifically states that it is sugar-free, soy-free, wheat-free, corn-free, and gluten-free. I find it odd that it doesn't mention dairy-free. Do we assume that it isn't dairy-free? Other ingredients listed are fractionated coconut oil. I remember from a previous post that this vitamin d was derived from lanolin.
I also need to make sure egg free now too--just got my son's allergy test back.
can you get hemp seeds in a normal HFS? or are they a way better price online? THANKS
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#73 of 84 Old 11-20-2008, 09:57 PM
 
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Still looking for someone to suggest how much A you should be getting with all this D. I think we're going to have to do something besides CLO. Our 'high vitamin' capsules only has 2500IU of A & 200IU of D. Even the liquid stuff I give ds1 only had 300IU of D. There's no way we can afford the really good CLO right now. Of course, if we spring for the Carlson's drops...what do we do for Vit A?:

mom to all boys B: 08/01ribboncesarean.gif,  C: 07/05 uc.jpg, N: 03/09 uc.jpg, M: 01/12 uc.jpg and far too many lost onesintactlact.gifsaynovax.gif

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Still looking for someone to suggest how much A you should be getting with all this D. I think we're going to have to do something besides CLO. Our 'high vitamin' capsules only has 2500IU of A & 200IU of D. Even the liquid stuff I give ds1 only had 300IU of D. There's no way we can afford the really good CLO right now. Of course, if we spring for
the Carlson's drops...what do we do for Vit A?:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...-oil-menu.html
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The ratio of A to D in cod liver oil should be 10 to 1 or less.
NOW makes vitamin A fish oil caps that comes in 10,000 iu and 25,000iu doses (I think) at www.iherb.com for pretty cheap. http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails....038977863&at=0

One place said that primitive people at 20,000iu A per day and WAPF says 50,000iu per day. I see 50,000 iu as my upper limit for A. Remeber that vitamin D and A together reduce the chances of toxcity.

You can also eat liver, milk, eggs ect for A as well...

I take a combo of HVCLO and Carlson D3 to equal about 5,000 iu in the winter and eat liver

Jen

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What do you all think about Garden of Life CLO? I take 2 tsp a day, but that means I am only getting 400 iu. I thought that was enough.

What is the best natural source and affordable? I never bought the fermented CLO since I thought it was so pricey.
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#76 of 84 Old 11-21-2008, 10:24 AM
 
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I also need to make sure egg free now too--just got my son's allergy test back.
can you get hemp seeds in a normal HFS? or are they a way better price online? THANKS
You can get them at my HFS. You will probably have to check yours for price and compare with some online stores. When I figure it out, if I buy from the website above I end up getting 9 containers for the price of 6 at my HFS.

Your welcome
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#77 of 84 Old 11-29-2008, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What are the side effects of D2? DD drinks lots of hempmilk which is fortified with D2.
Quote:
Synthetic vitamin D2 added to milk actually has the opposite effect of naturally occurring vitamin D complex, causing decalcification of the hard tissues and calcification of the soft tissues, including the soft tissues of the arteries.18 For this reason, D2 has been quietly dropped as an additive and replaced by D3, but there is evidence that synthetic D3 is poorly absorbed.19

Buist RA. Vitamin Toxicities, Side Effects and Contraindications. International Clinical Nutrition Review 4(4), 159-171, 1984
Barnes DJ and others. Comparative Value on Irradiated Ergosterol and Cod Liver Oil as a Prophylactic Antirachitic Agent When Given in Equivalent Dosage According to the Rat Unit of Vitamin D. American Journal of Diseases in Children 39, 45, 1930
http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/hd.html

Quote:
Some studies have shown that D2 is not utilized as well as D3 in animals (19) and clinicians have reported disappointing results using vitamin D2 to treat vitamin D-related conditions (20).

19. RL Horst and others. Discrimination in the metabolism of orally dosed ergocalciferol and cholecalciferol by the pig, rat, and chick. Biochem J, 1982, Apr 20:4:185-9.

20. Krispin Sullivan, CN, personal communication on January 3, 2002.
http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstru...tarianism.html

Quote:
One group of researchers led by Cynthia Rhode investigated the interaction of dietary vitamins A and D2 in rats.33 Vitamin D2 is a type of vitamin D that is synthesized from ergosterol, a chemical found in plant fats, and is not normally found in significant quantities in the diet. It is worthless in birds because it has no affinity for the protein that stores and carries vitamin D in the blood; it effectively treats rickets and severe vitamin D deficiency in mammals, including humans, but it is up to 10 times less effective than vitamin D3 at maintaining long-term vitamin D status in humans, which is necessary for a variety of other parameters of health.34a

33. Rhode, et al., "Vitamin A Antagonizes the Action of Vitamin D in Rats," J. Nutr., 129 (1999) 2246-2250.

Rhode and DeLuca, "All-trans Retinoic Acid Antagonizes the Action of Calciferol and Its Active Metabolite, 1,25-Dihydroxycholecalciferol, in Rats," J Nutr, 135 (2005) 1647-1652.

34a Armas, et al., "Vitamin D2 Is Much Less Effective than Vitamin D3 in Humans," The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, Vol. 89 No. 11 (2004) 5387-5391.
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...ina-osteo.html
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#78 of 84 Old 11-29-2008, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just wanted to mention a few things.

#1) When taking high doses of Vit D, you need to be careful because it can cause your body to produce excess calcium which can cause problems. I asked my doctor to test me for Vit D deficiency, which she did quite hesitantly because I wasn't the typical candidate for it, but my mom (who lives in Southern FL, by the way) and my husband both came up Vit D deficient. When I turned up with a rating of 12, she prescribed 50,000 IU per week and for me to be tested every 4 weeks for calcium to make sure I wasn't producing excessive levels of calcium. Someone mentioned they were consuming 50,000IU/week as well AND taking calcium supplements so I would check with your doctor before continuing!

2) Since I'm still nursing my ds, I checked with my pediatrician regarding such high dosages of Vit D and how that could affect him. She was not comfortable for him nursing more than once a day since his body could also produce excessive calcium. The nurse told me that even 5,000 IU was on the high side. So, please check with your pediatricians if you're nursing and consuming more than 5,000 IU of Vit D.

By the way, as I mentioned earlier, I had no symptoms and my doctor was shocked when my Vit D came back so low. So, it may be worth asking for if you're at the doctor anyway.

Thanks for bringing this up!
This is because mainstream medicine hasn't caught on to the interrelation of vitamin A with vitamin D (and E and K too). Vitamin D toxicity is prevented by consuming enough vitamin A. Which is why high vitamin cod liver oil makes sense as a whole food supplement.

See this article:

Vitamin A On Trial:
Does Vitamin A Cause Osteoporosis?
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...ina-osteo.html
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#79 of 84 Old 11-29-2008, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I looked at the multivit and the CLO I'm taking and it seems to be pretty low considering the 3,000 IU recommended for adults.

What is the best "form" of Vit D to take? I'm assuming D3 and not in powder form, right?

Also, what is the ratio of D to A that should be taken?

It seems like this is all so much information. I take a multivitamin so that I can get everything I need in one shot and I still have to take all sorts of "extras" to get what is needed. How does one go about making sure you're not overdosing on certain vitamins between taking multivitamins, CLO, and other single vitamins?
I feel like D from fish oil is the one to take but that's just me. D3 from lanolin could be just fine as well.

I go by approx. up to 50,000 IU of A per day and at least 3-4000 IU of vitamin D supplemented by CLO or D pills (I do eat other D foods) in winter b/c that keeps my blood levels up. I don't worry about A and D exact ratios of 10:1 if I'm getting it all from food, but I try to keep that ratio in mind. I have to admit reading the above Vitamin A on Trial article has me ask more questions than have answers re: correct ratio. But then I realize that traditional people didn't know all this, they just ate foods high in vitamins!! So that is how I try to focus, but realizing D is a hard one to get sometimes and I especially need it.

Sorry for rambling a bit... I don't think there exists a hard and fast rule.
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#80 of 84 Old 11-29-2008, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So supplementing with vitamin D didn't get rid of her deficiency? That makes me suspect that her intake isn't the problem.
Possibly, but she has no other major health issues so I took it to mean her intake just wasn't high enough. She also breastfed for many years, not sure how that effects your D levels. Or calcium. Or other fat soluble vits. And their irrelation.
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#81 of 84 Old 11-29-2008, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Shelled hemp seeds have 956IU of Vitamin D in 4 heaping tablespoons.

http://www.healing-source.com/about_HempFoods.htm
That is in the form of D2 though, correct?

I'm wary of eating hemp myself since I believe in a traditional diet. Plus it's much higher in omega 6s than the omega 3s we really need to supplement.
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#82 of 84 Old 11-29-2008, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by LBMarie9 View Post
everyone:Carlson's vitamin D drops--dairy free? used them?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been trying to figure out this vitamin D supplementation thing and have been pretty stressed out about what to do.

honesty (and maybe I'm wrong) but right now I don't feel I like to take synthetic vitamins--I try to get us all we need through our diet (and green smoothies)--and kind fo don't believe in supplementation (in a small sense)

anyway I am starting to feel that maybe the only exception is Vitamin D--do I need it? do my kids? and my BFing daughter? (PLEASE don't attack me--it seems everyone around here supplements everything and so I'm sure you all disagree)

anyway--I've looked into a couple--and think I like the idea of these carlson liquid (one drop) kind---derived from coconut oil- I think

this link lists the ingredients but doesn't say dairy free---are we to assume they ARE diary free and that's why they don't state it--or do we know they have dairy? (i think someone around herr called or emailed the company and got an asnwer and I can't find it!) THANKS!

http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-Vita...ngredientFacts


JANES--do you think carlsons are natural enough and good--or do you stick to thining CLO is best?

I agree re: our nutrients should come from natural foods. Chemical forms of vitamins do not act the same way in the body.

I think that CLO makes sense as a supplementary "food" because we also need omega 3 fatty acids in a much larger amount than most people get from their food. Foods high in omega 3 without containing an even higher amount of omega 6, is very hard to find in our modern diet to balance out the omega 6s already in abundance in our nuts, seeds, meats and vegetable oils. Especially if you are consuming a lot of vegetable oils and conventionally raised meat and dairy which most people do.

I still use Carlson's capsules from fish oil to supplement my CLO intake sometimes...I stocked up. It seems like they are being phased out though. I'll have to find out more about D3 from lanolin from people who know more than me! (like Chris Masterjohn and the rest of the crew at Native Nutrition for ex.)

I didn't ask about the Carlson drops containing dairy. I would assume it doesn't contain any other source than coconut and sheep lanolin, but you could call and ask, they answer the phone right away. I wouldn't recommend emailing them, they never got back to me several times!
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#83 of 84 Old 11-29-2008, 11:26 PM
 
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Just wanted to chime in to add my support to some kind of supplement for vitamin D for those of us up north.

I was diagnosed with a severe Vit. D deficiency in May of this year (my levels on the reliable test were only 13!) and am slowly rebuilding my levels of D and B12, which was very low also. I have chosen laboratory supplements for their cost and availability in addition to food-based (green smoothies with raw sunflower seeds for magnesium, raw milk and cheese) supplements because my levels were so low, and I have had amazing results. My levels are rising gradually, and every month I feel exponentially better. I'm pretty sure absorption is not an issue for me. I'm so glad my doctor understands about vitamin D and B12, and that Medicaid pays for the blood work. As a result of all the research I did here and online elsewhere, I strongly believe the combination of my vegetarian diet and poverty (lower quality food) can no longer support my health; I've started to eat fish again and mostly enjoy it.

I highly recommend lots of sun exposure, as well as a D supplement in the cloudy cold months.

rural mama to DD1 DD2
unschooling, non-vaxing, writing, gardening, co-sleeping, critter-loving family :
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#84 of 84 Old 11-30-2008, 12:18 AM
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or if you live in Florida and sunbathe once a week, year-round, do nothing.
Score!

So nice to know since I am lazy We don't seem to have any of the symptoms of deficiency-- I have been encouraging dh to wear less sunscreen (he is very fair but geez you don't need it to take a short walk lol) and dd and I get plenty of sunshine -- we just went to the beach all day today all day in fact.
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