Israel - Page 17 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#481 of 1781 Old 07-30-2007, 03:41 AM
 
elmo&zoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: I wish I knew
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The LLL picnic isn't next week in the end, it got postponed.
It's on the 15th at Park Raanana, starting at 3:30 in the afternoon. I'm still not sure I'll make it, but I'll definitely try.
elmo&zoe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#482 of 1781 Old 07-30-2007, 05:21 AM
 
jul511riv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Israel
Posts: 2,499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
mazel tov!!!

 http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Wise-Woman-Fertility/182752565080597
jul511riv is offline  
#483 of 1781 Old 07-30-2007, 07:13 AM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mazal tov, anon! And to the new dad ... and to your father, too, for really meeting the challenge.



(That laugh was just from picturing my dad in a similar position ... and I love my dad the most, we're very close and he's a highly advanced human being in all sorts of ways, but can only see him being totally a deer-caught-in-the-headlights in a homebirth scenario )
merpk is offline  
#484 of 1781 Old 07-30-2007, 02:09 PM
 
anon7799's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Starting to feel tired these days, and having problems with breastfeeding. I had a bad case of engorgement this morning, at least that's what I think it is, though it could be developing into mastitis - I've been pretty much in bed all day, hand expressing, putting warm compresses, and trying to nurse on it (though it's very uncomfortable).

I think baby isn't latching on well; my nipples are killing me and he likes to "motzetz" a lot while on the breast - takes 40 minutes to finish a feeding. I saw a lactation counselor and will see another tomorrow to try and work on it - I know it's not supposed to hurt so much but nothing I do seems to be working. I might also give a call to the Jerusalem Breastfeeding Clinic - anyone have any experience with them?

I bought a hand pump today (Avent Isis) to express some milk and hopefully reduce the swelling, but the darn thing doesn't work! No suction! DH put it together and swears he followed the directions exactly. I guess I'll be back in the shower hand expressing.....

About the US consulate - I totally sympathize, it's a zoo. Soon I'll have to go to register the baby's birth and apply for a passport for him. You can't even get through on a phone line - always super busy. Maybe we should all write some letters to them and see if it makes a difference..........

PS - Joyce DOES give the best back massages! And I know the smell of her oil that you are talking about; I also will always associate that with my baby's birth.
anon7799 is offline  
#485 of 1781 Old 07-30-2007, 02:50 PM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
anon, I used an Avent Isis here & there, too, and found it kind of difficult to get much going.

Have you found a LLL leader to talk to? There are a lot of them though I've got no clue where or any numbers to give you ... remember to check for the lip-flaring thing, pulling the top lip totally up and bottom totally down ... and that as much of the aereola as possible is in the latch ...

Remembering how hard it was with my first to get the hang of BF'ing (and to get to the point where it was painless), am sending a lot of easy-nursing light your way ...
merpk is offline  
#486 of 1781 Old 07-30-2007, 03:45 PM
 
3daughters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Land of milk and honey
Posts: 1,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I love the Avent Isis! Take it apart and put it back together. Make sure the white disc is facing up. Also, try it without the "massage petals". It worked way better that way for me.

Good luck with improving the nursing. Make sure he opens WIDE and tip your nipple up towards the roof of his mouth. It also helps to make a "nipple sandwich": U hold. Support the breast with your hand in a "U" position, then squeeze gently to form a "sandwich" for the baby. Use a "U" hold for positions where your baby is across your lap (cross-cradle or cradle hold). http://www.leron-line.com/handouts/P..._and_Latch.htm

Have you ever Dr. Jack Newman's videos on his site?

LLL leaders in Israel http://www.lllisrael.org.il/active.asp?subCat=6. PM me if you need help finding an English speaking leader in Jerusalem.
3daughters is offline  
#487 of 1781 Old 07-30-2007, 03:49 PM
 
Can Dance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
use cabbage. I did it for two nights after dd2 was born in my bra and I never had to deal with engorgement again. however, I have never head to deal with undersupply either. so that might be a consideration.
sorry for butting in. I just love Israel and dream about going back some day so here I am snooping around this thread.
Can Dance is offline  
#488 of 1781 Old 07-31-2007, 06:49 AM
 
elmo&zoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: I wish I knew
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
anon, a couple of things you can try with the ISIS.
If you want to use the massage petals, try putting them in when they're a little wet, it sticks better to the plastic.
In order to create suction, try pumping fast for a few seconds, until you reach proper suction.

As for the clinic, I've heard mixed reviews. There's an English speaking LLL group, and there are a number of English speaking leaders. Here's info on the english speaking group http://www.lllisrael.org.il/active.asp?subCat=2 (look for English and an 02 phone number).

I finally renewed my passport. Took me only 3.5 hours. :P
elmo&zoe is offline  
#489 of 1781 Old 07-31-2007, 11:18 AM
 
3daughters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Land of milk and honey
Posts: 1,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmo&zoe View Post
I finally renewed my passport. Took me only 3.5 hours. :P
We just did the girls Israeli passports at the Israeli Consulate. We got there when it first opened so we didn't have to wait. Their passport photos that we did at Target were rejected for poor quality so we had to go retake their photos which took a long time.

I don't ever remember having any trouble at the US Consulate. It helped that we didn't live far from Tel Aviv so it was fairly convenient.
3daughters is offline  
#490 of 1781 Old 08-01-2007, 04:49 AM
 
Liba613's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Israel
Posts: 728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3daughters View Post
We just did the girls Israeli passports at the Israeli Consulate. We got there when it first opened so we didn't have to wait. Their passport photos that we did at Target were rejected for poor quality so we had to go retake their photos which took a long time.

I don't ever remember having any trouble at the US Consulate. It helped that we didn't live far from Tel Aviv so it was fairly convenient.
See that is the difference, you went to Tel Aviv.

The American Consulate in East Jerusalem has a terrible reputation. It is so bad that people travel on multiple buses or hire cabs to get from Beitar, which is SOUTH of Jerusalem, to go to the US Consulate in Tel Aviv.

I dread the process either way, to the extent that my 13 month old isn't a US citizen yet and his great grandmother can't/won't set up his trust fund until he is. Argh.
Liba613 is offline  
#491 of 1781 Old 08-01-2007, 07:25 AM
 
elmo&zoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: I wish I knew
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Somebody must have been listening. Just saw this posted on JANGLO. New appointment system for US citizens.
http://jerusalem.usconsulate.gov/upl...Sheet_ACSF.pdf

Let's hope it makes a difference and you don't end up with an appointment that's months away.
elmo&zoe is offline  
#492 of 1781 Old 08-01-2007, 07:46 PM
 
insahmniak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Have I been here all this time?
Posts: 1,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
May I butt in here for a quick question?

This may sound a bit off the wall, but I'm currently living in an area with horrible air pollution. Ozone from cars/industry and particulate pollution from all the wildfires. I've been able to find adult respirators but I can't find one for my 4 year old. I've called 3M and one other such company and they don't make them for children.

I'm a little concerned that in the U.S. parents cannot get this safety equipment for our children.

DP claims that Israel issues masks for children. So someone, somewhere must be making these....yes?

I'd really like to have something for my daughter so that we can all bike safely and be a part of the solution to the pollution, rather than contributing to it. Also, geeze, in case of some accident or whatnot - how awful to be able to protect yourself but not your children! Gads!

Anyhow, DP may be way off in his claim. Set me straight if you can. Or share any thoughts you might have.

Thanks in advance!
insahmniak is offline  
#493 of 1781 Old 08-02-2007, 12:02 AM
 
3daughters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Land of milk and honey
Posts: 1,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmtaretu View Post
DP claims that Israel issues masks for children. So someone, somewhere must be making these....yes?

I'd really like to have something for my daughter so that we can all bike safely and be a part of the solution to the pollution, rather than contributing to it. Also, geeze, in case of some accident or whatnot - how awful to be able to protect yourself but not your children! Gads!
It is true that Israel distributes gas masks to all citizens. However, they are big, ugly and uncomfortable and would not be suitable for casual use.
3daughters is offline  
#494 of 1781 Old 08-02-2007, 12:43 AM
 
insahmniak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Have I been here all this time?
Posts: 1,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for the information, 3daughters.

Isn't it sad that it's come to this -- such measures to protect ourselves from each other and from our self-polluted environment.

We are planning to move out of the dirty air soon so that we can bike without masks and live without a car. But in the mean time and in case of an emergency, I'd like to be able to protect my daughter.
insahmniak is offline  
#495 of 1781 Old 08-02-2007, 05:50 AM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
merpk is offline  
#496 of 1781 Old 08-02-2007, 07:04 PM
 
Liba613's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Israel
Posts: 728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merpk View Post
Liba613 is offline  
#497 of 1781 Old 08-03-2007, 08:40 PM
 
BelovedBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HOME!! Northern Israel
Posts: 3,195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mazal Tov Anon!!!!!!!

My boy was born on tues, at 3 am. In the tub at the brooklyn birthing center.

I hope to write a birth story sometime soon. I don't have internet at home so its a bit hard to do...

But it ws awesome.

Mom of 5 boys- 13, 10, 8, 2 : and newbie Aug. 24th, '09 . babywearing advocate . Cook, baker, homemaker, wife to a man with another woman's kidney (live altruistic, unknown donor).
BelovedBird is offline  
#498 of 1781 Old 08-05-2007, 04:04 AM
 
jul511riv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Israel
Posts: 2,499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
call me again when you feel up to it...i'll call u right back.

MT!

 http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Wise-Woman-Fertility/182752565080597
jul511riv is offline  
#499 of 1781 Old 08-05-2007, 08:26 AM
 
anon7799's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
First of all - CONGRATS BB!!

As for me, I ended up going to the Jerusalem Breastfeeding Clinic and worked with a lady named Fran. She helped me a lot and suggested some medicines, cold compresses, and showed me proper latch-on. I sat with her twice for 2 hours each time, going over everything. I've also called her like a million times on the phone. I think finally things are going ok; I'm healing (nipples were so painful; cracked, sore and bleeding from improper latch, and my breasts were hard, red and hot to the touch). DH has been so supportive and helps me out a lot, talking to the baby to get him to open his mouth wide and take the breast properly. I really couldn't be doing this without him. It's proof that fathers can be crucial in the breastfeeding success of their children! I think having support in general is really important, and I will check out the links you mention about the English LLL groups.

I did have some mild success with the pump (got 17 ml once! - popped the white wheel in further and wet the thing and my breast to get suction). Right now I'm not so focused on pumping because I want to get the BF technique correct before I even think about expressing milk and giving it via bottle.

I think baby is having gas and/or intestinal cramps. We were interpreting this as hunger, and I was so worried he was coming off the breast hungry and that I didn't have enough milk. It also doesn't help that whenever he cries, everyone says "he seems hungry - you should feed him," even if I just fed him (and he's still getting the hang of feeding - he takes 20 minutes on each breast, so it means I am feeding him for like 40 or 45 minutes). But since he's gaining weight and having the proper amount of wet and dirty diapers daily, I'm not so concerned. Though I do have this obsession about needing to weigh him every three days.
anon7799 is offline  
#500 of 1781 Old 08-07-2007, 10:32 AM
 
Dahlia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Israel
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I' haven't been active in this forum in a very long time, but i'm back. I had a hectic year (especially with my oldest son who was diagnosed with NLD and of course ADD, and my daughter who was diagnosed with celiacs). Anyhow we have gotten everything under control for the time being at least and I am finally getting myself organized. At the end of August myself and Hagit from Siach Teva are going to have our first workshop (or Sadna) for cloth diapers. There will be samples of all cd's that you can buy in Israel with a full explanatioin of all the types of cd's out there, how to use them and of course why they are better than disposables. You will be able to try them on for size. There will also be diapers there for sale.
I don't have the final date of the Sadna, but the first on will be held in TA.
The sadnaot will be run in hebrew but if there are enough people interested (between 3-6) I will do one in English as well . (regardless I am running them and every fifth word is in english). WE are also planning to travel around with these sadnaot so if you would like to have us come to you let me know.
Any way I am also here if you have any questions you can pm me or e-mail me at [email protected].

Nice to be back, hope to catch up with what's been going on here.
Dahlia
Dahlia is offline  
#501 of 1781 Old 08-07-2007, 11:35 AM
 
elmo&zoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: I wish I knew
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Good luck!
elmo&zoe is offline  
#502 of 1781 Old 08-07-2007, 11:42 AM
 
Dahlia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Israel
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
elmo & zoe,
are you the Neva that gave Moran Hen my name??
Dahlia
Dahlia is offline  
#503 of 1781 Old 08-07-2007, 11:48 AM
 
elmo&zoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: I wish I knew
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yup.
I'm the one who spoke to her about the set up for the workshop, and what's available in Israel, before she started.
elmo&zoe is offline  
#504 of 1781 Old 08-07-2007, 01:49 PM
 
anon7799's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Past few days have been difficult.

My mother's intuition is working, despite the fact that my breasts aren't. My insistence on weighing the baby turned out to be right - yesterday the scale showed that he's not gaining weight. Very scary and frustrating because we're trying to do everything right, but it doesn't seem to be working. The doctor said we need to weigh him again in 2 days and if he hasn't gained, will need to supplement.

I went again this morning (my third visit) to the Jerusalem Breastfeeding Center, and they confirmed that I'm doing everything right - latch is good, frequency of feedings/stimulation of breasts is good, etc. They determined that I'm not making enough milk. We have been giving him a bit of formula every day or 2nd day, just because he comes off the breast so hungry and unsatisfied (he had gas before, but there is still the underlying hunger there), and we can't starve the poor little guy (and they said that a hungry and upset baby is not the goal, so not to feel guilty about giving formula if needed). It's not a significant amount to affect my supply (anyhow I BF him before and after the formula and I've been trying to pump), and we feed him via feeding tube to avoid nipple confusion. They gave me a prescription for some medicine to increase my supply. Hopefully it will work and we will see some weight gain by Thursday.

Yesterday I was a wreck, crying all the time, feeling guilty that I can't feed my baby and just worrying myself sick about his well-being. It's so scary that at 2 weeks old he has just gained his birthweight back but no more. I never thought that I would have such problems with breastfeeding - after a totally healthy pregnancy and natural homebirth, I just thought that the BF would follow suit.

I'll post another update in a few days.
anon7799 is offline  
#505 of 1781 Old 08-07-2007, 03:41 PM
 
Liba613's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Israel
Posts: 728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)


I had heard that at two weeks the goal was to have them back to their birth weight.

Did the prescribe Motillium? If they did it has done wonders for my supply and I hope it does for yours as well!!

I am sorry that you are having such a hard time!!
Liba613 is offline  
#506 of 1781 Old 08-08-2007, 03:40 AM
 
elmo&zoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: I wish I knew
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

The most important thing is that your baby be healthy and thrive.
From what I know they're supposed to be back at birth weight at 10 days, so you're fine. You seem to be doing all of the right things, and I hope things get better in a few days.
elmo&zoe is offline  
#507 of 1781 Old 08-08-2007, 06:11 AM
 
jul511riv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Israel
Posts: 2,499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dalia,

I tried to contact you a few times over the past year. Sorry to hear about the drama over there.

I'd love for you to do a workshop here in the north somewhere. Tzfat is a GREAT place to do something like this, as there is a "ripe" audience over there. And it's only a half hour away from me!

Let me know.

 http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Wise-Woman-Fertility/182752565080597
jul511riv is offline  
#508 of 1781 Old 08-08-2007, 09:11 AM
 
anon7799's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes, they prescribed Motillium. How long did it take for it to work for you? I started it yesterday. What will I feel when it kicks in?

I've also been doing fennel tea and fenugreek tablets for a week - saw some small difference but it's still not enough.

We weigh him tomorrow and I hope he will show some gain, at least not loss.

He had been gaining weight well for the first week or so, and then stopped and even lost a tiny bit, which is what is making us worried.

I've read good things about Motillium though, so I'm hoping it will help.
anon7799 is offline  
#509 of 1781 Old 08-08-2007, 11:14 AM
 
3daughters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Land of milk and honey
Posts: 1,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Have you tried breast compression a la Dr. Jack Newman? http://www.drjacknewman.com/index.ph...d=18&Itemid=42

You are great mom! Breastfeeding doesn't always come easy. Out of my three kids only one was a 'natural' and I had to work to get it right with the other two.
3daughters is offline  
#510 of 1781 Old 08-08-2007, 01:35 PM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
anon, before you start down the supplementing/formula route ...

... in your previous post you said something about him taking 20 minutes on each breast.


When mine were newborns I didn't time them. I just sat there for literally hours breastfeeding. I didn't ask if they were done, and I didn't encourage them to be done. I just. sat. there. YKWIM? For hours at a time. Got up to go to the bathroom, maybe make something to eat, and then sat down again. And nursed some more.

(And stayed like that for the next six months ... okay, only kidding)


But anyway ...


It's the reverse of supply and demand ... it's demand and supply. So maybe before you start cutting down the demand by supplementing maybe you can try and force more demand by more nursing and making an effort to keep him awake by nudging his feet and tickling and just keeping him at the breast until you can't take it anymore, IYKWIM. Just keep it going and keep it going and keep it going. If he nods off, well, you nod off, too. And then wake up in a bit and get him latched on again, and if he's not waking up so much to nurse then just nudge constantly, just tickling fingers and squeezing feet (gently yet insistently, IYKWIM) and tickling cheeks and just getting him to keep nursing as much as possible.



Heck, you got somethin' else to do? Sit down & put your feet up.









Editing to add also that at a week my kids' weights were *all* down, and none of them got back to birthweight till at least two weeks, in one case three. So it sounds like the information I was given was very different than the information they're giving you. Can you express milk with your hand? Like when you do that little bit of supplementing, before you do that, can you express milk? If you can, then why would you have to do the little bits of formula? Every little bit of it cuts into the demand for your milk, you know?


I'm sorry to be skeptical and adding to your distress ... it's just that the medical world (yes, even lactation consultants, many of whom are nurses ... well, in the US, anyway) there's no reason to exclusively nurse. So there's no reason to push for exclusive nursing. You know?
merpk is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off