Anyone not giving newborn Vit. K inj - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 50 Old 10-17-2008, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just wondering others opinions on Vit K inj for newborn.
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#2 of 50 Old 10-17-2008, 05:26 PM
 
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We won't be doing the vitamin K injection, the vaccine, the antibiotic eye drops, or the newborn bath.
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#3 of 50 Old 10-17-2008, 05:27 PM
 
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We're in the "absolutely not" camp and have no intention of giving Vit. K.

And, as Larissa mentioned, we'll be declining everything else, too....though there isn't much to decline at a homebirth. Gentle, non-interventive birth and no circumcision makes the Vit. K particularly unnecessary.

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#4 of 50 Old 10-17-2008, 05:50 PM
 
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No vitamin K for us ... we might consider the oral dose, perhaps. No eye goop either. And as for the bath, we'll (hopefully) be doing a homebirth, so that won't be an issue.

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#5 of 50 Old 10-17-2008, 07:04 PM
 
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Since I'll be having another unassisted birth, definitely won't be having any of the standard newborn stuff. We turned down Vit K & eye goop for our oldest, too.

I do plan to increase my own Vitamin K intake (with alfalfa & nettles) in the third trimester, though.

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#6 of 50 Old 10-17-2008, 07:36 PM
 
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Unless something goes wrong (ex- premature, forceps, etc...), we are not doing the vitamin K. Won't be doing the Hepatitis B shot either. I guess I got to get my birth plan put together.

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#7 of 50 Old 10-17-2008, 11:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Red_Lil_Mamma View Post
Unless something goes wrong (ex- premature, forceps, etc...), we are not doing the vitamin K. Won't be doing the Hepatitis B shot either.
Same here, along with no eye ointment, delayed bath, etc. We did this with Evangeline too, at the hospital, but with mw at home this time there's hardly a question.

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#8 of 50 Old 10-17-2008, 11:17 PM
 
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I'm not sure about Vitamin K yet.

But we absolutely will NOT be allowing hep B again. I also plan to decline the eye ointment again too.
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#9 of 50 Old 10-18-2008, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Devaskyla View Post
I do plan to increase my own Vitamin K intake (with alfalfa & nettles) in the third trimester, though.
Ditto. I will consider the injection if there is a tramatic birth (bruising etc) otherwise no.
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#10 of 50 Old 10-18-2008, 09:33 AM
 
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nope, unless there is some reason to. I plan on upping my intake of Vit K before baby is born.

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#11 of 50 Old 10-18-2008, 09:43 AM
 
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no vit k unless it is a traumatic birth.
dd1 was vacuumed out and had the vit k shot.
dd2 was born un-assisted and did not have the vit k shot.
we'll see how dc3 goes! we're planning for another UC, but like all plans made, no one knows till they get there.
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#12 of 50 Old 10-18-2008, 10:30 AM
 
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i'd just like to ask why not vit K shot besides that its an shot? and about the eye goop- it is for what? with a hospital birth -particularly c-section- i believe these are routine so how do you get them not to do it (besides saying lets not and hope they don't claim they didn't get the message). is there a way to replace the benefits of these things? i noticed some of you are planning to up vit k intake in the 3rd trimester -how? and i think i read somewhere there is some sort of risk in increased intake (i'm interested in increased intake for dental health too) is there any truth to it? perhaps it was from taking it pill form? i'm not sure. lots of questions thanks
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#13 of 50 Old 10-18-2008, 11:00 AM
 
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We are not going to do anything- vit. k, eye drops, vax, circ- either. We haven't told the doctor yet....

mommabear: I am not an expert by any means and I get everything all mixed up, but heres my 2 cents. Vit K is given in case your baby has a vit k deficiency and has blood-clotting problems. I personally don't think it's necessary unless the birth is somehow traumatic and there is a cahce that the baby is going to be bleeding a lot(in which case we will be allowing the vit. k). The eye drops are to "protect" the baby from going blind if the mother has an std (chlamydia and gonorrhea). IF the mother knows she doens't have these things, there is no reason (as far as I know) to have the eye drops. I have also heard that you put a couple drops of your breastmilk in their eyes and it will perform the same function, without being so harsh.....

I feel the same way I think you do- I have no idea how I will know for sure that the hospital won't do these things. I am going to ask for the baby to never leave m y sight but... I don't trust nurses or doctors or hospitals. This is my first try at an informed natural birth and I am not happy with the doctors attitude about the things I want for MY birth. If everything goes normally, my next baby will be born at home where I can control everything. Geez... it makes me so mad. It's MY freakin' body and MY baby.

Sorry... I've just been dealing with this a lot lately.

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#14 of 50 Old 10-18-2008, 11:46 AM
 
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Crap. I just lost a big post with all my reasons why not. I'll try to come back to this when I have time to start over.

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#15 of 50 Old 10-18-2008, 01:14 PM
 
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Actually all babies are born without blood clotting abilities. The blood starts clotting on the 8th day of the baby's life. I do agree that it's not necessary. (unless you intend to circ a son . . . in which case I would have it the vitamin K shot done, or wait until the baby is 8 days old) We don't circ our sons, so the vitamin K was not necessary.

The other reason to consider vitamin K would be in case of a traumatic birth. We actually ended up having the vit. K injection for our 3rd son, because he was wedged and stuck in the birth canal for about 12-15 hours. It was such a traumatic delivery, that after he was born, our midwife, who is supportive of NOT giving the vit K, suggested we have it done. So, in that case we did. However, if it had just been a normal delivery, I would have never had it done.
We didn't do the eye drops, Hep B, or bath. If you refuse the bath(which is not necessary, imo, they won't have a reason to take your baby away). When they bathe the baby, they not only wash away your scent that helps with the bonding, but they also have to put the baby in a warmer for a couple hours afterward to warm them back up. So, we don't do the bath either.
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#16 of 50 Old 10-18-2008, 01:20 PM
 
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My two oldest had vit k and two youngest didnt. The two oldest had jaundice and the two youngest didnt! Unless you have some reason to suspect the baby is bleeding, might have a brain bleed or something, you dont need it. Baby will start producing on his or her own in eight days, as mentioned above. I think it became routine because of routine forcepts and circumcision.

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#17 of 50 Old 10-18-2008, 01:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mommabear207 View Post
i'd just like to ask why not vit K shot besides that its an shot? and about the eye goop- it is for what? with a hospital birth -particularly c-section- i believe these are routine so how do you get them not to do it (besides saying lets not and hope they don't claim they didn't get the message). is there a way to replace the benefits of these things? i noticed some of you are planning to up vit k intake in the 3rd trimester -how? and i think i read somewhere there is some sort of risk in increased intake (i'm interested in increased intake for dental health too) is there any truth to it? perhaps it was from taking it pill form? i'm not sure. lots of questions thanks
The vitamin K shot has been linked with childhood cancers. You can actually administer an oral vitamin if you want to give it to the baby (it's safer).

The eye goop I think is for STDs, but it's just one more stressful thing to do to a newborn who has already just had a scary big change.

Bathing is unnecessary and it just takes more time away between mother and child—as it can drop the baby's temperature and make it so the baby has to stay under a heat lamp. There is also a lot of argument that vernix exists to protect that delicate skin.

Whether or not you are required to have any of the procedures done depends on the state you live in. Most are pretty easy-going about regulations but there are a few (like NY) that require you to get the shots or CPS gets called. The best way to find out is to check your tribal area and then come up with a birth plan that you go over with your OB/birth center/hospital before the kid is born.

Also, it really helps to have a clause that the mother or father are always in the same room as the baby.

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#18 of 50 Old 10-18-2008, 07:18 PM
 
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We didn't do the eye goop last time and we don't vaccinate. Since he was born in the water, there was no need for a bath.
We did do the vit. K shot though because my children are so wild, I was worried about an injury. This time, i'm skipping the vit. k shot, antibiotics and labor and the genetic/pku testing. Luckily I have a midwife who's ok with whatever and I don't have to fight for any of this.

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#19 of 50 Old 10-19-2008, 09:55 AM
 
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Same here, along with no eye ointment, delayed bath, etc. We did this with Evangeline too, at the hospital, but with mw at home this time there's hardly a question.
Same with me. With a homebirth, these choices are easy. My midwife doesn't give the vitamin K shot routinely, only if the parents want it or if she thinks there's a good reason to give it (bruising after birth trauma or circumcising a boy right away, for instace). We didn't get it last time nor did we elect to give the eye ointment or start vaccines right away. And I think the baby was at least five days old before we did the newborn screening state health dept. heel prick thing.
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#20 of 50 Old 10-19-2008, 10:58 AM
 
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We do hospital birth, but it's easy for us to refuse anything we wish to refuse. In two different hospitals, refusing those standard newborn things was a piece of cake. No one even questioned our choices. I am thankful that it's so easy to refuse them . . . especially when I hear others with nightmare stories about it!
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#21 of 50 Old 10-19-2008, 11:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mommabear207 View Post
i'd just like to ask why not vit K shot besides that its an shot? and about the eye goop- it is for what? with a hospital birth -particularly c-section- i believe these are routine so how do you get them not to do it (besides saying lets not and hope they don't claim they didn't get the message). is there a way to replace the benefits of these things? i noticed some of you are planning to up vit k intake in the 3rd trimester -how? and i think i read somewhere there is some sort of risk in increased intake (i'm interested in increased intake for dental health too) is there any truth to it? perhaps it was from taking it pill form? i'm not sure. lots of questions thanks
for vit k:
-the vax is linked to childhood cancers
-only necessary if the baby might bleed internally (like bleeding in the brain due to a bad artificial extraction during birth) or externally (like circ)
-you can always give it to the baby orally if it is of great concern (i wish i knew this with dd1 as we gave her the vax instead)

for eye goop:
-only necessary if you have certain STDS

for bathing:
-the vernix is actually good and protective for the skin. just rub it in and leave to dry. we bathed our first dd when she was two days old and our second dd when she was a week old.

for hep b vax:
-go for a stroll in the vaxing forums.
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#22 of 50 Old 10-19-2008, 01:36 PM
 
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Some things to consider (both sides of the argument about Vitamin K ):

Actually, the disease that Vitamin K prevents is not restricted to procedural issues, like circumcision or head trauma during birth. The disease that Vitamin K prevents is very deadly, yet rare. It used to be called "classic hemorrhagic disease of the newborn," because it was so common, and countless newborns died from it.

Nowadays many newborns do not need the shot, but honestly, a few do and there's no way to know ahead of time which ones are potential victims, in order to prevent a deadly condition of bleeding on the brain. Yes, procedures could increase the chances, but to claim that a baby who is born vaginally without trauma, and uncircumcised is not at risk is misleading, unfortunately.

And the real issue as I understand it, is that condition is totally undetectable until the bleeding has already started, and by then it's too late. And it happens more often in breastfed babies (because formula's loaded up with Vitamin K). But Vitamin K can prevent it from happening to begin with.

So what about side effects? The main concern is the potential link between the shot and childhood cancers (primarily leukemia). But is the risk of childhood cancer worse than the risk of infant death? That's obviously a personal decision. Vitamin K is a fat soluble vitamin, so the concern is not in giving a newborn a vitamin. It's the level/quantity of that vitamin, and this is something you can speak to your pediatrician about in terms of getting a smaller dosage, etc., and the manner in which it's administered (intramuscular versus intravenous) also plays a role in terms of risk.

In recent years, several studies have came out showing a potential link between the Vitamin K shot (because of the levels, as I understand it -- not just the vitamin itself) and childhood cancers, and that the risks were according to some studies, higher that a baby would develop cancer (which may or may not be deadly, but is certainly scary) than die from bleeding on the brain. But other equally reputable studies came out showing no relationship at all.

So overall the studies linking Vitamin K shots to childhood cancers are not, in our reading, conclusive at all. Some are very contradictory. : Some are very convincing. But pretty much all were very scary, absolutely. In the end, when it came to making this decision for our firstborn, there just seemed to be too many other factors that could be playing a part for us to accept a definite cause/effect between the shot and leukemia. Though I can still understand even the potential connection causing concern, absolutely. And that being enough for some parents to opt not to get the shot.

The main conclusion we came to was that it seemed as if the majority of children who'd had the shot and developed leukemia were carriers of a specific gene that meant they were at greater risk for leukemia. Now could the Vitamin K shot have been some kind of catalyst? I have no idea. Possibly. But I think the argument could be (and has been) made that there are other potential triggers/contributors as well, just as the argument has been made that the Vitamin K shot can be a catalyst.

It's confusing, for sure. And deserves a lot of thought, I think. And as I said, both sides make compelling arguments. So it's not an easy decision to make. But it's not one that deserves automatic dismissal. I urge anyone to research it for yourself and come to your own conclusion, if you haven't already.

We are very proactive about our child's health -- she eats organic, was breastfed past age two, and isn't exposed to flame retardant chems, pesticides, etc. We aren't comfortable with the additives in any available vaccines for her at this age still, so she remains unvaccinated, but we compensate by ensuring healthy habits, including extended BFing, etc. I don't do the flu shot (esp. while pregnant). And so on.

But for us, we ended up feeling the Vitamin K shot did more potential good in preventing a deadly and untreatable disease, than potential harm. And the clincher for us was that we had to cut the cord immediately -- it was wrapped around her neck twice, tightly, and had to be cut in order for her to be born. This was the deciding factor for us in allowing the smaller dose shot of Vitamin K.

---

It's a tough call, though, I know, and I respect both sides of the argument. And will be researching the issue again as it comes closer to time for this babe to be born, to see about more recent studies.

Bottom line: the more research you can do, the better.

My suggestion to anyone who's uncomfortable with the high levels of Vitamin K in the shot is to look to an oral version instead, especially if you're planning to breastfeed. That way the baby is still getting some benefit of additional Vitamin K, but without the single megadose amount that has been linked with health issues. And consider letting the cord stop pulsing before cutting it. Some studies indicate delaying the cord clamping can help.

But taking Vitamin K yourself while pregnant is not effective. It does not pass through placenta in levels that can prevent hemorrhagic disease of the newborn. It does pass through breastmilk, but the levels there are arguable, given that most women's milk doesn't come in for several days post-partum (and how much quantity of Vitamin K carries through colostrum), versus how quickly the newborn needs to be exposed to the vitamin for it to be most effective. Again, there's a lot to consider.

Had we not gotten the shot, we'd have gone with the oral administration instead. It's my understanding the oral is not as effective as the shot unless it's specifically prepared (so be sure to research your source there), however it is far more effective than nothing at all, especially for a breastfed babe, and can be just as effective in some cases. So if you're uncomfortable with the shot, but concerned about the potential risks of the bleeding issues, then the oral might be a good solution for you.

---

We declined the Hep B (not at risk) and the prophylactic eye ointment because I tested negative for the two STDs it treats -- and eye treatment can be made retroactively and be just as effective.

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#23 of 50 Old 10-19-2008, 02:37 PM
 
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Definitely do your research before making a choice. I spent many weeks researching this topic, and some of my research and stats came out a bit different than Renee's. So, the most important thing is to do your research and make an informed choice!
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#24 of 50 Old 10-19-2008, 02:42 PM
 
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Definitely do your research before making a choice. I spent many weeks researching this topic, and some of my research and stats came out a bit different than Renee's. So, the most important thing is to do your research and make an informed choice!
And I should've pointed out perhaps that the information our previous decision was based on was from 2006. There very well may have been new studies that have come out since which sway the argument more one way or the other. I'm not entirely sure what we'll do this time, but I definitely plan to research it some more just to be safe.

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#25 of 50 Old 10-19-2008, 04:27 PM
 
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We're declining the vitamin K shot ... but I did want to add that our midwife (who has yet to have her own children) is unsure about what she'll do when it comes to her own newborn. I found that interesting. She's considering the oral dose.
She's delivered nearly 1,000 babies and has had one case where the infant died as a result of a hemorrhage that would've likely been prevented had they parents consented to the vitamin K shot.

As for the eye ointment, our midwifery practice offers testing for the relevant STD's when they do the first internal exam. Chlamydia and Gonorrhea are the two big culprits, and are not picked up via standard STD blood work, only via a swab. So we'll do that, just in case.

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#26 of 50 Old 10-19-2008, 04:30 PM
 
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I'm not sure about the Vit K, but we will be declining the ointment, and hep B vacc.
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#27 of 50 Old 10-19-2008, 06:43 PM
 
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We have decided to do the Vitamin K but are declining the eye ointment and the HepB. My doctor is very supportive of this.

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#28 of 50 Old 10-20-2008, 10:13 AM
 
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Just wanted to note that the that the previous poster mentioned the eye ointment being routine even for c-sections. This should be especially not necessary for a c-section since the baby did not pass through the birth canal, thereby eliminating their eyes being exposed to possible STD's!
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#29 of 50 Old 10-20-2008, 01:15 PM
 
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Declining eye ointment and newborn bath.
Probably doing Vit-K.
Undecided about Hep-B...need to research!

------------------------------------------------
To elaborate on the Vit-K decision--both my brother (as a young child) and my grandfather (throughout his life) have had weird blood issues resulting in hospitalizations, so I'm scared not to.

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#30 of 50 Old 10-20-2008, 01:29 PM
 
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Vit K is the only newborn procedure we allow. Bleeding problems are more common in asian babies and since I am on baby aspirin and injected blood thinners I think it is prudent to make sure that the baby is protected.
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