MY DD is still sick with a fever after the HIB vaccination - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 53 Old 03-15-2009, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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As many of you know, my DD had her 3rd HIB vaccination on Monday and on Thursday afternoon, she developed a fever of 103. We went to the ER twice because she fever spiked to nearly 105. It is now Sunday, and she still has a fever up to 104. There are no cold symptoms, just this damned fever.

I am sickened beyond belief that she could be seriously sick.

Does anyone have any information for me?
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#2 of 53 Old 03-15-2009, 08:41 PM
 
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As many of you know, my DD had her 3rd HIB vaccination on Monday and on Thursday afternoon, she developed a fever of 103. We went to the ER twice because she fever spiked to nearly 105. It is now Sunday, and she still has a fever up to 104. There are no cold symptoms, just this damned fever.

I am sickened beyond belief that she could be seriously sick.

Does anyone have any information for me?
Im sorry Lollicup. I know this must be so hard for you and your family.
The only thing I can advise is that you consult your doc (the one that gave the vax) again tomorrow, Take your DD in to see her. I know you said she gave you 2 remedies to give DD. How long have you been doing that? It may take some time. If this is the flu, it can last up to 10 days. Hang in there. Chances are she will be just fine.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#3 of 53 Old 03-15-2009, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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She is not herself today and is now more lethargic. I'm fearing pneumoccal or meningitis because she hasn't had the prevar vac.
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#4 of 53 Old 03-15-2009, 09:27 PM
 
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Sounds like a severe reaction to the vax itself.

Have you researched the reactions to HIB? VAERS is a good place to start? You should report this there as well.

 
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#5 of 53 Old 03-15-2009, 09:37 PM
 
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Have you been keeping her hydrated? How is her temp now? Give any mild baths? Are you giving tylenol and if so, is it bringing the fever down?
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#6 of 53 Old 03-15-2009, 10:07 PM
 
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Have you or her doctor reported this to VAERS?

Loving mother, Devoted Wife
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#7 of 53 Old 03-15-2009, 10:43 PM
 
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to me this sounds like a vaccine reaction. What do you mean that you fear meningitis because she did not have the vaccine...I think the vaccine is making her sick. Poor baby.

What I would do is take her to a natural doctor, someone who practices natural medicine and see if they can get the vaccine toxins somewhat back out of her. And I would give her vitamin C all day long. Sodium ascorbate if you have it.
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#8 of 53 Old 03-15-2009, 10:57 PM
 
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You said in your last post about this you were told your LO had the flu, you said they found a viral infection in her blood. The flu can last 5-7 days if its bad enough. Just keep her well hydrated and if she stops eating or drinking or becomes lathargic bring her back in.

I know its hard when your child is sick and the flu can be particularly hard one LO's like yours. My LO had the flu at the same age and it took about a week for the fever to brake. As long as they have checked to be sure there are no other infections like her ears and stuff, have faith she will recover.

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#9 of 53 Old 03-15-2009, 11:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lollicup View Post
As many of you know, my DD had her 3rd HIB vaccination on Monday and on Thursday afternoon, she developed a fever of 103. We went to the ER twice because she fever spiked to nearly 105. It is now Sunday, and she still has a fever up to 104. There are no cold symptoms, just this damned fever.
You did say, on Friday:

Quote:
fever, has a runny nose, red eyes, and looks terrible.

How old is your LO? And how is she acting? Is she sick/lethargic and miserable, or just feverish and otherwise fine?

I don't know about your area, but there seems to be a LOT of stuff circulating in my locale at the moment. Lots of strep throat, stomach virus, flu. My own DD has had a horrible hacking cough and low-grade fever for several days.

If your DD had meningitis, you'd probably know b/c she'd likely be in pain and screaming.

I'm guessing your LO picked up something at the doc's office - maybe the flu. It could also be roseola - which typically starts with several days of unexplained fever and no other symptoms, then the rash will appear. My oldest son had roseola when he was 11 months old and the fever (102-104 for 3 days straight) had me in a complete panic - though he was acting just fine, it wasn't even causing him any discomfort.

It's so hard when something seems "wrong" and there's no apparent explanation. I hope your LO feels better soon.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#10 of 53 Old 03-15-2009, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You did say, on Friday:




How old is your LO? And how is she acting? Is she sick/lethargic and miserable, or just feverish and otherwise fine?

I don't know about your area, but there seems to be a LOT of stuff circulating in my locale at the moment. Lots of strep throat, stomach virus, flu. My own DD has had a horrible hacking cough and low-grade fever for several days.

If your DD had meningitis, you'd probably know b/c she'd likely be in pain and screaming.

I'm guessing your LO picked up something at the doc's office - maybe the flu. It could also be roseola - which typically starts with several days of unexplained fever and no other symptoms, then the rash will appear. My oldest son had roseola when he was 11 months old and the fever (102-104 for 3 days straight) had me in a complete panic - though he was acting just fine, it wasn't even causing him any discomfort.

It's so hard when something seems "wrong" and there's no apparent explanation. I hope your LO feels better soon.
My DD is 16 months old and has had the fever since Thursday afternon. She has no other symptoims except a relentless high fever between 103-104, but usually is controlled with Motrin and Tynelon and is brought down to 101 or sometimes lower. I wonder if this is roseola.

Although, today she just wants to lay out and do nothing. She doesn't want anything to do with food or drink or play. She seems depressed. O can't help but worry sick that she was fully vaccinated.

I am worried sick and depressed.
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#11 of 53 Old 03-15-2009, 11:57 PM
 
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I'm sorry this will sound a bit rushed, I only have a few minutes here until later, but 2 things:

1) try to post in one thread, so everyone will know the complete story (or give links to your other threads)

2) - I am reading Dr mendolson's "How to Raise a Healthy Child in spite of your dr"

My book is downstairs at the moment, but in it he states something like for every degree rise in temperature, the activity of the white blood cells the fight virus is DOUBLED.

Therefore, you need to let her have a chance to fight this, without constantly lowering the temperature if possible. obviously, she needs to rest, and so do you, but perhaps if the ER is correct and this is a virus, then maybe she just needs more time to fight it off.

My sons temp (he is just a little older than your girl) was 103-104 range for some hours (less than 12 I think) it was difficult for me to NOT medicate (I am a new mum after all and not raised this way!), but, it did break, and go down to 101-102 for the next 24 hrs (48 hrs total fever) - his was NOT in response to a vax, but I'm assuming a virus. Maybe you've done that already. Just a suggestion.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
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#12 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm sorry this will sound a bit rushed, I only have a few minutes here until later, but 2 things:

1) try to post in one thread, so everyone will know the complete story (or give links to your other threads)

2) - I am reading Dr mendolson's "How to Raise a Healthy Child in spite of your dr"

My book is downstairs at the moment, but in it he states something like for every degree rise in temperature, the activity of the white blood cells the fight virus is DOUBLED.

Therefore, you need to let her have a chance to fight this, without constantly lowering the temperature if possible. obviously, she needs to rest, and so do you, but perhaps if the ER is correct and this is a virus, then maybe she just needs more time to fight it off.

My sons temp (he is just a little older than your girl) was 103-104 range for some hours (less than 12 I think) it was difficult for me to NOT medicate (I am a new mum after all and not raised this way!), but, it did break, and go down to 101-102 for the next 24 hrs (48 hrs total fever) - his was NOT in response to a vax, but I'm assuming a virus. Maybe you've done that already. Just a suggestion.
I'd like to see that information. Maybe I should stick to BellaDonna instead of Motrin and Tylenol.
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#13 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Interesting report on VAERS. Roseola rash following the Hib vaccination. Coincidence or cause? My DD received the ActHib Sanofi Pasteur. My DD's temperature at the moment is 97.7. She was due for Tylenol over an hour ago but she hasn't got that yet, so I pray this fever is gone and resolving.



VAERS ID290636 Vaccination Date:2007-08-24
Age1.0 Onset Date:2007-08-25 Days later: 1
SexF Submitted:2007-09-10
StateNJ Entered:2007-09-14

HIBVSANOFI PASTEURUF074AA3IM
PNCWYETH PHARMACEUTICALS, INCB58845F3IM

Administered by: PVT Purchased by: PVT
Symptoms: Pyrexia Rash macular Roseola
Fever over 101 for 3 days - fever broke and a fine macular rash on trunk seen. Dx as Roseola by doctor - parents felt the reaction was from immunization given on 8/24/07 Prevnar and Hib.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VAERS ID328007 Vaccination Date:2008-09-29
Age1.3 Onset Date:0000-00-00 Days later:
SexM Submitted:2008-10-06
StateNC Entered:2008-10-10

DTAPSANOFI PASTEURU2356CA3IMLL
HIBVSANOFI PASTEURUF495AA2IMRL

Administered by: PVT Purchased by: PVT
Symptoms: Febrile convulsion Pyrexia Roseola
Patient had a febrile seizure 2 days after immunization fever lasted total 4 days then patient broke out in what looks like a roseola rash when fever broke

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VAERS ID328521 Vaccination Date:2008-10-02
Age0.2 Onset Date:2008-10-06 Days later: 4
SexM Submitted:2008-10-07
StateCA Entered:2008-10-15

DTAPHEGLAXOSMITHKLINE BIOLOGICALSAC21B192AA0IMLL
HIBVSANOFI PASTEURUF488AA0IMRL
PNCWYETH PHARMACEUTICALS, INCD162810IMLL
ROTHB5MERCK & CO. INC.0903X0PO

Administered by: PVT Purchased by: UNK
Symptoms: Pyrexia Rash macular Roseola
After routine 2m shots child had a 3d of 101 fever then macular rash. Differential for rash is ROSEOLLA (at 2 m!), MILEA RUBRA (not so papular), Immunization rxn or TYLENOL allergy. Looks like viral exam thum * sometimes seen with ROTAVIRUS
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#14 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 01:17 AM
 
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You said that your DD tested positive for the flu.

As long as you give antipyretics it will just make the illness linger longer because the body can't rid itself properly. Flu will last 7-10 days.

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#15 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 01:28 AM
 
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How is her fluid intake? Have you any of the pedialyte pops on hand? I would just reserver Tylenol at half dose for evenings to help her sleep. How is her sleep? Are you giving extra Vit C?

Poor baby!


(this is off topic, but how did you get the details of those VAERS reports? I can't figure out how to do that though I know I have before. When you get a chance...)
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#16 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 01:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#17 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 02:49 AM
 
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Here are a few quotes from the book I mentioned (by the way, I bought this book for only $8 at amazon recently - best $8 I've spent in a long time!) (Robert S. Mendelsohn, M.D. - How to Raise a Healthy Child... in Spite of Your Doctor)

Here are a few quotes you might be interested in, but the chapter is long and detailed, I highly recommend reading it:


In chapter 7 "Fever: Your Body's Defense against Disease"

Quote:
(page 77) The common cold and influenza are the most comon sources of elevated body temperatures in children of all ages. They can generate fevers that range all the way up to 105 degrees, but even at that level they are not a legitimate cause for alarm.

(page 88) In most cases you will be able to identify a fever as the product of a viral or bacterial infection, because the accompanying symptoms are those that are typical of these ailments- a mild cough, a stuffy or runny nose, watery eyes, etc. There is no need to call the doctor or to give any form of medication if no other symptoms are present, because there is nothing he or you can prescribe that will cure a viral infection or dispose of a bacterial infection any more effectively than the body's own defense will. Medications given to relieve discomfort may interfere with the body's efforts to cure itself, for reasons that I'll explore more fully in a later chapter. Antibiotics may shorten the course of a bacterial infection, but the risks outweight the benefit.

(page 79) Unless your child's fever is accompanied by additional symptoms, such as vomiting or respiratory difficulties, it need not be a cause of concern, even if it reaches 105. More important in determining whether a fever is the result of a mild infection like the common cold, or a more serious one such as meningitis, is the overall appearance, behavior, and attitude of your child. These are all factors that you can judge more accurately and skillfully than your doctor

(page 79) Untreated fevers caused by viral and bacterial infections do not rise inexorably and will not exceed 105 degrees.

(page 80) Measures to reduce temperature, such as drugs or sponging, are worse than unnecessary; they are actually counterproductive. If your child contracts an infection, the fever that accompanies it is a blessing, not a curse. .. The presence of fever tells you that the repair mechanisms of the body have gone into high gear.

(page 87) Call your doctor, regardless of the temperature level, if your child is experiencing difficulty in breathing, is vomiting repeatedly, or has a fever that is accompanied by twitching or other strange movements, or you are concerned about any other alarming element of the child's behavior or appearance.
If she is losing too many hours of sleep because of high fever, then I agree with previous posters and give tylenol if she cannot rest otherwise (try a 1/2 dose - it might work) - sleep at night is important, but probably not necessary to round the clock medicate. The link below is a good article that really helped me overcome my fear when my own son recently had a fever - it lasted for 2 LONG days - and to my delight - it broke on its own - withOUT tylenol - he only lost about 4 hours of sleep one night, I had to stay up with him from 3-7am while he played! then he fell back asleep! I struggled with whether to medicate him since it WAS nighttime, and he WAS supposed to be sleeping, but I did not - he just wanted to play or do other stuff and I decided to wait a bit and see what happens (he went back to sleep and was fine later that day) so I stayed up with him for 4 hours, he got to watch some cartoons while I held him too.


"IS FEAR OF FEVER HURTING OUR CHILDREN?"
http://www.*********/a/west8.html

This one is specifically about fever danger signs:
http://health.kaboose.com/kids-healt...er-guide4.html

Now I realize in YOUR situation, your daughter JUST had a VACCINE, so its possible she doesn't have a virus (the bloodwork confirmed it though?) and the fever is due from the vaccine. On the page below, I quote:

http://raisingchildren.net.au/articles/fever_a.html

Quote:
Other causes of fever are relatively uncommon, and include allergic reactions to drugs or vaccines, chronic joint inflammation, some tumours, and gastrointestinal diseases.
SO perhaps it was in response to the vaccine after all. PICK up copies of all Lab work that was done. Would be interested to know just what they found.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
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#18 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 04:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, there is a reason why I am giving fever-reducers such as Tylenol and motrin. Is case she has Roseola, seizures with spiking fevers can happen. I don't want her to have any seizures.

Thanks so much for posting the information. I'll take a look at it. My DD is still fevering. I thought Roseola was 3-days of fevering, then a rash. This fevering stated on Thursday afternoon.

I'm a wreck.
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#19 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 09:02 AM
 
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If your LO isn't in pain, I'd leave the fever alone and stop taking her temp altogether. You're obsessing over numbers and making yourself sick with worry. Focus on her demeanor instead, and try to keep her comfortable and hydrated.

Quote:
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Well, there is a reason why I am giving fever-reducers such as Tylenol and motrin. Is case she has Roseola, seizures with spiking fevers can happen. I don't want her to have any seizures.
You've been misinformed. Febrile seizures occur with RAPID rise in temp and can occur with any illness. They aren't more prevalent with certain illnesses.

Personally, I would avoid Tylenol. We don't use acetominophen at all, only ibuprofen.

Hope today is a better day, mama.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#20 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 09:22 AM
 
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If your LO isn't in pain, I'd leave the fever alone and stop taking her temp altogether. You're obsessing over numbers and making yourself sick with worry. Focus on her demeanor instead, and try to keep her comfortable and hydrated.

You've been misinformed. Febrile seizures occur with RAPID rise in temp and can occur with any illness. They aren't more prevalent with certain illnesses.

Personally, I would avoid Tylenol. We don't use acetominophen at all, only ibuprofen.

Hope today is a better day, mama.
This is good advice. Tylenol wears off so rapidly compared to other antipyretics, that it can cause a rapid spike in fever resulting in an increased risk of febrile seizures, which are scary but usually harmless. The body usually controls a gradual rise in fever, but Tylenol causes the body to fight to raise the fever. Then when the Tylenol wears off, you can get a huge jump in fever. My husband spoke to the infectious disease specialist at Children's Hospital L.A. (can't remember his name now), and he confirmed all of this and recommended against using medications to lower fever unless the child could not sleep. Sleep is also an important part of healing.
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#21 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 09:54 AM
 
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If your LO isn't in pain, I'd leave the fever alone and stop taking her temp altogether. You're obsessing over numbers and making yourself sick with worry. Focus on her demeanor instead, and try to keep her comfortable and hydrated.
I second this advice.

I hope today goes better for you and your LO

Megan, mama to her little boy (Feb2008) and introducing our little girl (Dec 2010)
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#22 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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There is no need to yell at me. I'm a facts type of person, but I'll try to relax and let her body heal itself. I'm a first time Mommy with a sick child and it's been difficult. I found the articles and information on Tylenol very interesting. My SIL doesn't use Tylenol because of the possible liver damage and I thought she was nuts.

Thanks for posting. I hope today is a better day with light at the end of the tunnel.
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#23 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 10:11 AM
 
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There is no need to yell at me. I'm a first time Mommy with a sick child and it's been difficult. I found the articles and information on Tylenol very interesting. My SIL doesn't use Tylenol because of the possible liver damage and I thought she was nuts.

Thanks for posting. I hope today is a better day with light at the end of the tunnel.
No one is yelling at you, mama.

And your SIL isn't nuts.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#24 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 10:31 AM
 
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There is no need to yell at me. I'm a facts type of person, but I'll try to relax and let her body heal itself. I'm a first time Mommy with a sick child and it's been difficult. I found the articles and information on Tylenol very interesting. My SIL doesn't use Tylenol because of the possible liver damage and I thought she was nuts.

Thanks for posting. I hope today is a better day with light at the end of the tunnel.

It's hard when little ones are sick! Hang in there and watch your daughter. If she feels sick, she may have less energy or less of an appetite than usual. If she's lethargic, you will know that she needs medical attention. I've read your doctor's vaccine and baby care books, so I'm really interested in what she says about all of this. I would think that she will have some calming advice.
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#25 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 12:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lollicup View Post
There is no need to yell at me. I'm a facts type of person, but I'll try to relax and let her body heal itself. I'm a first time Mommy with a sick child and it's been difficult. I found the articles and information on Tylenol very interesting. My SIL doesn't use Tylenol because of the possible liver damage and I thought she was nuts.

Thanks for posting. I hope today is a better day with light at the end of the tunnel.
No yelling at you mama

We've all been there.

Heck I am a second time mom and I still get all wound up when my child is sick. Its natural.

As for the seizures you mentioned, they would febrile seizures and they're actually not that common (about 4%) and are relitivly harmless. I happen to have to children who are prone to them. Unfortunitly you wont know if your child is prone to them unless they get them

IF, and its a big if, IF your child gets a seizure that is when you would worry about it. Watch your little one but try not to obsess. I agree with everyone else. Half dose of tylonal at night for sleeping only so the fever can do its work.

Not sure how many will agre with me here, but its been my experience that motrin is better should your child be prone to the seizures as it is longer lasting and seems to work better at avoiding a spike in temperature as it wears off. It also has the advantage of 8 hours of fever relief which is good for ensuring your LO gets better sleep at night. But I would only use it at night.

When my kids are sick I watch them closely. I only give motrine if the temp is over 103.5-104 as thats when they tend to hit a spike and then seizure. So far its worked really well for them. My older DD seems to be growing out of them, her last flu I was even able to get her through with only a half dose at night. *fingers crossed*

The biggest thing to avoid at all costs is a cool bath! my mom used to tell me that all the time when the kids would get sick its how they used to control temperatures, but the sudden change in temp can lead to the body going into shock, or when they get out a sudden spike as the temp goes back up.

Not sure if your BFing or not, but as long as she is holding down liquid let her drink drink drink, pedialight (SP?) is great for keeping them hydrated as well.

your LO will be ok

Kimberly : momma to Karrigan Kayla : and wife of Kevin
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#26 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 12:43 PM
 
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Lollicup... I URGE you to not use the web as a source of information for diagnosing your child. You are just guessing right now.

You need to see a doctor in Real Life who can examine your child and help continuing to monitor your child. Your child was given a 100% diagnosis for flu. What simply may be happening is complications from the flu... not roseola, a vax reaction, etc.

I second the suggestion to take your daughter to a Children's Hospital for a second evaluation if you daughter is worse from last Saturday when you took her to the ER.
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#27 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 12:46 PM
 
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The biggest thing to avoid at all costs is a cool bath! my mom used to tell me that all the time when the kids would get sick its how they used to control temperatures, but the sudden change in temp can lead to the body going into shock, or when they get out a sudden spike as the temp goes back up.
Even a lukewarm bath. I tried that when my daughter had a fever and it sent her into the chills. Even with tepid water. It didn't help at all. In fact, when the chills abated, she was hotter then ever.

Although if she had a much higher temp than she had, it might have been an option.
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#28 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 12:52 PM
 
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Even a lukewarm bath. I tried that when my daughter had a fever and it sent her into the chills. Even with tepid water. It didn't help at all. In fact, when the chills abated, she was hotter then ever.

Although if she had a much higher temp than she had, it might have been an option.
Its actually better to avoid baths altogether.

Kimberly : momma to Karrigan Kayla : and wife of Kevin
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#29 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 01:27 PM
 
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I only give motrine if the temp is over 103.5-104 as thats when they tend to hit a spike and then seizure.
Again - it's worth clarifying that febrile seizure is the result of a rapid rise in temp, and NOT the temp itself.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#30 of 53 Old 03-16-2009, 02:32 PM
 
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Again - it's worth clarifying that febrile seizure is the result of a rapid rise in temp, and NOT the temp itself.
I agree.. however when my DD's temps reach this point is when the spike usually happens that triggers the seizures, hence why I medicate at that temp for them.

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