Vaccine Detox Homeopathic Waste of Money? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 29 Old 03-19-2009, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Can I get both sides and the pro's and cons of this........If I DECIDE to do a shot and I would only be doing one......Is this a waste of Money,This is the formula my naturopathic dr recomended......Is this safe if I would only be doing one of the vaxes????? Or am I better off using chloraphill and SA and CLO if I chose to do one?



CHILDHOOD X32
IMMUNIZATION DROPS
Provides homeopathic support of vaccination and
assists the body with the ill effects from
vaccination.
Hepatitis A,B,C,60X,100X,200X,Hib 60X,100X,200X,
Varicella 60X, 100X, 200X, MMR 60X, 100X, 200X, DTP
60X, 100X, 200X, OPV 60X, 100X, 200X,Td 60X, 100X,
200X, Calcarea carbonica 3X, 6X, 9X, 12X, 30X, 60X,
Echinacea angustifolia 3X,6X,9X,12X,30X,Malandrinum
30X, Silicea 3X, 6X, 9X, 12X, 30X, 60X, Sulphur 3X, 6X,
9X, 12X, 30X,Thuja occidentalis 3X, 6X, 9X, 12X, 30X,
60X, Arsenicum album 6X, 9X, 12X, 30X, 60X, purified
water,10% USP alcohol,8% glycerin. 2 oz
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#2 of 29 Old 03-19-2009, 10:55 PM
 
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Since we don't vax, we haven't tried this. I have heard of people using thuja. I'm also doubtful about combination remedies with that many different ingredients.
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#3 of 29 Old 03-19-2009, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah it seems to have alot of stuff in it,and I really dont know a thing about this stuff lol......The naturpath assured me it was safe....But really how safe is it with all that stuff unless its just 15.00 dollar water lol........I have tried stuff like calms forte before and really I dont know if they helped or not.....


What does stuff like 200X mean so confusing? I guess it just bugs me that there is other stuff for other vax in it that I wouldnt be getting......Like I said I am beyond confused.......
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#4 of 29 Old 03-19-2009, 11:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Aquafina View Post

What does stuff like 200X mean


I think it means one part "medicine", 200 parts water. Homeopathic preparations are very, very, very diluted solutions...almost to the point of being very expensive water.

There are people who believe in homeopathy, though, but I'm not one who subscribes to it personally.

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#5 of 29 Old 03-20-2009, 05:10 AM
 
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I don't think that is really a homeopathic medicine, parts of it certainly are, and the notation is homeopathic, but..... There are loads of things in there at 3X dilution. These are active ingredients that will have an effect in the normal, conventional way. Perhaps somebody can work out the quantity of ethelmercury currently in vaccines through this notation, I suspect it is way more dilute than 3X. Wikipedia claims that 8X is the allowed concentration of arsenic in drinking water, and that is orders of magnitude more dilute than this medicine.
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Originally Posted by emma1325 View Post
I think it means one part "medicine", 200 parts water. Homeopathic preparations are very, very, very diluted solutions...almost to the point of being very expensive water.

There are people who believe in homeopathy, though, but I'm not one who subscribes to it personally.
It's way more dilute than that:
1X=10 parts water, to 1 part medicine.
2X=100 parts water to one part medicine
3X=1000 parts water to one part medicine

200X=100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000 parts water to one part medicine. (there should be 200 zeros there).

I'd appreciate a correction from someone into homeopathy if I've got this wrong.
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#7 of 29 Old 03-20-2009, 06:43 AM
 
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The conventional ingredients in real amounts that might have a conventional medical effect would be:
Calcarea carbonica
Echinacea angustifolia
Silicea
Sulphur

Thuja occidentalis
Quote:
Due to the neurotoxic compound thujone, internal use can be harmful and is not recommended.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuja_occidentalis


Arsenicum album (arsenic oxide)
Quote:
The arsenic oxide in a homeopathic preparation is highly diluted, and so is considered generally safe, although rare reports of arsenic poisoning from poorly-prepared homeopathic treatments sold in India have been reported.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenicum_album

I would be surprised if this stuff was too dangerous, but if you are giving this as a vaccine detox I would be wondering about how well the long term effects of this neurotoxin have been studied. Better, or worse then ethylmercury?

If your belief system goes beyond conventional medicine, then perhaps none of this matters.

By the way, I think, if I'm getting my maths right that a vaccine is in some sense 4X-5X Thimerosal using the same notation (give or take a bit). I'm over simplifying the calculation quite a bit, but it seems to me that there is a lot more Thuja occidentalis in this than there is Thimerosal in vaccines.

It isn't really possible to make a proper comparison based on the homeopathic list of ingredients - do you have anything saying what is actually in it in a more conventional notation?
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#8 of 29 Old 03-20-2009, 10:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Aquafina View Post
Can I get both sides and the pro's and cons of this........If I DECIDE to do a shot and I would only be doing one......Is this a waste of Money,This is the formula my naturopathic dr recomended......Is this safe if I would only be doing one of the vaxes????? Or am I better off using chloraphill and SA and CLO if I chose to do one?



CHILDHOOD X32
IMMUNIZATION DROPS
Provides homeopathic support of vaccination and
assists the body with the ill effects from
vaccination.
Hepatitis A,B,C,60X,100X,200X,Hib 60X,100X,200X,
Varicella 60X, 100X, 200X, MMR 60X, 100X, 200X, DTP
60X, 100X, 200X, OPV 60X, 100X, 200X,Td 60X, 100X,
200X, Calcarea carbonica 3X, 6X, 9X, 12X, 30X, 60X,
Echinacea angustifolia 3X,6X,9X,12X,30X,Malandrinum
30X, Silicea 3X, 6X, 9X, 12X, 30X, 60X, Sulphur 3X, 6X,
9X, 12X, 30X,Thuja occidentalis 3X, 6X, 9X, 12X, 30X,
60X, Arsenicum album 6X, 9X, 12X, 30X, 60X, purified
water,10% USP alcohol,8% glycerin. 2 oz
Where can I get these drops?
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#9 of 29 Old 03-20-2009, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think that is really a homeopathic medicine, parts of it certainly are, and the notation is homeopathic, but..... There are loads of things in there at 3X dilution. These are active ingredients that will have an effect in the normal, conventional way. Perhaps somebody can work out the quantity of ethelmercury currently in vaccines through this notation, I suspect it is way more dilute than 3X. Wikipedia claims that 8X is the allowed concentration of arsenic in drinking water, and that is orders of magnitude more dilute than this medicine.

So this stuff seems unsafe???? I am truly confused......If say you were to vax would you even use these????


Quote:
Where can I get these drops?
http://www.professionalformulas.com/


I think you can only get this from a DR......Naturopath
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#10 of 29 Old 03-20-2009, 12:02 PM
 
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So this stuff seems unsafe???? I am truly confused......If say you were to vax would you even use these????
I don't know. They probably are safe, but who knows? As discussed, the normal reassurance with homeopathy is that the medicines are so dilute that there is effectively no chance that there is a single molecule of active ingredient in the medicine. That way, there is no chance that it could harm you, or help, by conventional means. This reasurance really doesn't apply in this case as there are plenty of ingredients in it that are well above the level at which they could have an effect.

If the same quantities of arsenic and thujone were in vaccines, I think people would raise hell about it. What studies have been done to confirm that this stuff will do you good rather than harm you? If you feel that you trust the manufacturer, or the naturpath to know that this stuff is safe, then OK. I'm mainly concerned because the word 'homeopathic' can be used to avoid having to test conventional medicines for safety and effectiveness.

Edit--->
I just had a look at their catalog. Most of their homeopathic products seem to have ingredients at only 3X dilution. I really am amazed. Is this common for homeopathic products? These could all have effects for perfectly conventional reasons.

I know I've probably come across as beating up on all of this. The above is, I think, a broad conventional response to these products. There are of course unorthodox, unconventional viewpoints to this, as there are with any other question. If you're coming at it from an unorthodox viewpoint, you may well see this stuff in a different light.
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#11 of 29 Old 03-20-2009, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah I think I am going to mark this off my list........I think I am better off with CLO,SA,and a good probiotic.....Thank You
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#12 of 29 Old 03-20-2009, 12:22 PM
 
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I don't think homeopathic stuff is dangerous... I also think it's unlikely to be very effective.

I don't really think any vax detoxing is worthwhile.... wither you are wanting the vax and accepting of what comes with it, or not. IMO.

-Angela
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#13 of 29 Old 03-20-2009, 12:34 PM
 
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I don't think homeopathic stuff is dangerous... I also think it's unlikely to be very effective.
This is my view as well. Having said that, some homeopathic remedies have ingredients like zinc and arsenic at dilutions where they could have a none homeopathic effect on you. Whether there is some homeopathic reason why this won't happen, I don't know.

From what little I know about the concepts of medicine that some people on the forum have, I'm sure our view isn't universal. Such is life!
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#14 of 29 Old 03-20-2009, 12:37 PM
 
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Yeah I think I am going to mark this off my list........I think I am better off with CLO,SA,and a good probiotic.....Thank You
Apologies if I rained on your parade.
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#15 of 29 Old 03-21-2009, 01:01 AM
 
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It probably isn't too dangerous (aside from any impurities that might be in the product in manufacturing) because there is no trace of any of the X ingredients left to do much. You are buying water, alcohol and sugar.

To give you an idea of dilution (this comes from James Randi) 1500x is like crushing a grain of rice into a powder and diluting it into a bowl of water the size of our solar system. And then repeating that 2 billion times. How on earth would you even do that?

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It's way more dilute than that:
1X=10 parts water, to 1 part medicine.
2X=100 parts water to one part medicine
3X=1000 parts water to one part medicine

200X=100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000 parts water to one part medicine. (there should be 200 zeros there).

I'd appreciate a correction from someone into homeopathy if I've got this wrong.
ehhhhhhhh,

yeah, that. lol That's what I meant.

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#17 of 29 Old 03-21-2009, 02:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Apologies if I rained on your parade.

No I will actually save some money I mean if its just water,i think its the arsinic and other vax formulas in there that bug me so no apologies


Thank You
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#18 of 29 Old 03-21-2009, 02:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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How would the bash flower essence work? Or the natural calm magniseum drink?
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#19 of 29 Old 03-21-2009, 10:01 AM
 
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It's way more dilute than that:
1X=10 parts water, to 1 part medicine.
2X=100 parts water to one part medicine
3X=1000 parts water to one part medicine

200X=100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000 parts water to one part medicine. (there should be 200 zeros there).

I'd appreciate a correction from someone into homeopathy if I've got this wrong.

Ok here's the deal with homeopathic remedies. They are safe, but people should always consult a practitioner as taking the wrong remedy in the wrong strength will not do any harm but will not be effective. Homeopathy is symptom specific not disease specific.

As for dilution. here is how a remedy is made:

Each substance goes through the process of potentization. The original substance is ground with a motar and pestle into milk sugar (the little pellets) or tinctured in grain alcohol. Non soluble materials are ground with milk sugar for the first 3 dilutions then with alcohol thereafter. The soluble materials are placed directly in alcohol. In turn the substance undergoes a series of serial dilutions in alcohol intermitted by successions. Between each dilution the bottle with the solution is pounded into a table or book with force equal to the strenght of a punch from 10-100 times. Finally the solution is put on blank sugar pellets.

Potency dilutions are made of a scale from 1-10 (the X potencies), or 1-100(the C potencies, or 1-1000 (the M potencies) so 1M = 1000C. A 3X potency means that the substance was diluted 3 succesive times in a 1 in 10 ratio as follows: One drop of substance is placed in 9 drops of alcohol and succused. This makes the 2X potency. The one drop of of the 2X potency is then diluted in another 9 drops of alcohol and succussed to create the 3X potency. One drop of the 3X potency is placd on a vial of milk sugar pellets to create the 3X pellets. Further dilutions of the remedy raise the potency (6X, 30X, 200X etc)

The C potencies are created in the same way but placed in 99 drops of alcohol rather than 9 as in the X scale. The more diltue a remedy is the more potent it is.

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I don't think homeopathic stuff is dangerous... I also think it's unlikely to be very effective.

I don't really think any vax detoxing is worthwhile.... wither you are wanting the vax and accepting of what comes with it, or not. IMO.

-Angela
I respectfulkly disagree. I have seen homepathic detox do wonders for babies with vax reactions, the mmr in particular.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#21 of 29 Old 03-21-2009, 11:22 AM
 
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I respectfulkly disagree. I have seen homepathic detox do wonders for babies with vax reactions, the mmr in particular.
I realize that some have seen effective results with them.

I would rather avoid the reactions, myself.

-Angela
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#22 of 29 Old 03-21-2009, 11:38 AM
 
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I realize that some have seen effective results with them.

I would rather avoid the reactions, myself.

-Angela
I totally agree. but for people that do vax and there are reactions. I think homeopathy can be helpful

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#23 of 29 Old 03-21-2009, 03:57 PM
 
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Ok here's the deal with homeopathic remedies. They are safe, but people should always consult a practitioner as taking the wrong remedy in the wrong strength will not do any harm but will not be effective. Homeopathy is symptom specific not disease specific.
I guess my criticism would be, how do you know that they don't do harm? We are concerned about vax reactions that happen less often then 1/10,000 doses. Since homeopathy isn't really a science based thing, perhaps a science based criticism isn't relevant.

I'm glad we agree on the maths for the dilution. I doubted myself a little. I had thought that it was usually water rather than alcohol that was used to do the dilutions, but I'm prepared to believe I'm wrong.
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#24 of 29 Old 03-21-2009, 04:03 PM
 
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I guess my criticism would be, how do you know that they don't do harm? We are concerned about vax reactions that happen less often then 1/10,000 doses. Since homeopathy isn't really a science based thing, perhaps a science based criticism isn't relevant.

I'm glad we agree on the maths for the dilution. I doubted myself a little. I had thought that it was usually water rather than alcohol that was used to do the dilutions, but I'm prepared to believe I'm wrong.
Admittedly homeopathic is not science based so this type of citicism isn't relevant, but in terms of saftey in general, Homeopathy has over 200 years of documented safety and in general homeopathy is not killing hundreds of thousands of people a year. The same cannot be said of allopathic medicines.

In terms of vax reactions IMO they happen more often than the literature leads peopel to believe. Its just that most of the time the reaction id denied to be from the vaccine. Most saftey studies only monitor post vax for up to 30 days. NOt long enough IMO.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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Admittedly homeopathic is not science based so this type of citicism isn't relevant, but in terms of saftey in general, Homeopathy has over 200 years of documented safety and in general homeopathy is not killing hundreds of thousands of people a year.
Neither is whistling Dixie.

I apologise for the facetiousness of that last comment, but it is no good to only talk about the harm something does. You have to look at the benefit at the same time. Loads of people choke to death eating food every year, you have to look at the benefits.

Quote:
In terms of vax reactions IMO they happen more often than the literature leads peopel to believe. Its just that most of the time the reaction id denied to be from the vaccine. Most saftey studies only monitor post vax for up to 30 days. NOt long enough IMO.
What about epidemiological studies?
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#26 of 29 Old 03-21-2009, 07:20 PM
 
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Neither is whistling Dixie.

I apologise for the facetiousness of that last comment, but it is no good to only talk about the harm something does. You have to look at the benefit at the same time. Loads of people choke to death eating food every year, you have to look at the benefits.


What about epidemiological studies?
not sure I follow that analogy. Im no choking expert but don't most people choke because they eat too fast or don't chew their food enough...not because there is something inherently dangerous about the food itself.

I never said allopathic medecine has NO benefit. I think, escpecially when used outside of life saving situations that it may do more harm than good. This is just my opinion. Not interested in a debate.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#27 of 29 Old 03-21-2009, 07:24 PM
 
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This is just my opinion. Not interested in a debate.
Fair enough. Apologies if I was too pushy.
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#28 of 29 Old 03-21-2009, 07:40 PM
 
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Fair enough. Apologies if I was too pushy.
You weren't! No worries. I know from other threads that some people on here are all about the debate. (you seem like you like a good debate!) which is fine but it's really not my thing. I just like to give my opinion/point of view and why I feel like I do and the person can take from it what they will or totally ignore it. Makes no difference to me.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#29 of 29 Old 03-21-2009, 08:03 PM
 
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You're right. I do love a good debate, but they aren't the only way to the truth. Catch you on another thread.
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