Hib Vaccine: Any reason not to? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 19 Old 04-27-2009, 03:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My lo is unvaxed and 20 months. I have been going round and round and researching this like crazy. My dh doesn't think our lo needs this vaccine. I was at first worried about reactions from the vaccine, then I read that it is pretty low on the reaction side. Then I worried about serotype replacement and I learned it is not really an issue with this vaccine. I was worried about the ingredients and found ACTHIB which does not contain mercury or aluminum, etc. I also read that this vaccine is very effective. I know he would just need one shot to have immunity. I read somewhere that getting this vaccine could increase his chances of getting other non hi related types (pneumococcal) of meningitis (Hilary Butler), but I cannot find this information anywhere else, so I am not sure I believe it. I do not want to do prevnar because I think that has a higher rate of bad reactions...seizures, etc., and a higher rate of serotype replacement. When you get the hib vaccine, it doesn't seem like anything "else" moves in from what I have read.

Can anyone think of any reason NOT to get this vaccine for a 20 mo? I know the disease is rare, but that doesn't mean alot to me because there is still a chance of coming in contact with it. Oh, btw, he is also still partially bf.

Thanks,
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#2 of 19 Old 04-27-2009, 12:47 PM
 
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read somewhere that getting this vaccine could increase his chances of getting other non hi related types (pneumococcal) of meningitis (Hilary Butler), but I cannot find this information anywhere else, so I am not sure I believe it.
Hi Stacey...I know you've been dealing with this for a while. There's no easy answers like with most things. About the increase pneumococcal disease, Hilary didn't just make it up. Back in '92 the Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal Newsletter made that comment that pneumococcal disease was increasing as a result of Hib vaccination. There seems to be an interesting trend going on...now if you go along with Neil ****** and others who argue that Hib infection rates started increasing as a result of the old DTP, then the Hib vax is made and rates drop but pneumococcal rates go up. Then the pneumococcal vaxes are introduced and staph aureus rates increase. I wonder what the next one is after the staph vax is introduced...

Specifically with the vax, there is the link to type 1 diabetes...I'm sure others can point you to the studies, and the increased risk for invasive Hib in the two weeks after vaccination.

Serotype replacement...I did find one study that questioned if it was happening or if the increased Hi-a infections were a result of "better reporting" (much in the way autism is "better reported" I guess).

Quote:
widespread use of Hib conjugate vaccine and the subsequent reduction in Hib colonization may have opened an ecologic niche for increased colonization with Hia or other non-Hib strains...the potential for serotype replacement remains a concern (16). Three population-based studies have documented small increases in the incidence of non–type b H. influenzae disease after the introduction of the Hib conjugate vaccine...or a preexisting background rate of non-b serotype disease may have simply been uncovered due to the decreasing Hib rates.
http://www.cdc.gov/EID/content/14/1/48.htm

There's no quick and simple answer. Depending on your perspective, there are reasons to do Hib and reasons to decline it. You also have to take into account (as I know you have) breastfeeding status, general health, risk stats and their decline with age (the risk of Hib infection drops off significantly after 24 months--we crunched the numbers on here in one thread), underlying immune issues, all risk factors (parental smoking, malnutrition, overcrowding, poverty, lack of breastfeeding, daycare, older siblings in the home etc.).

I hope you and your DH can come to a decision you can both live with. Good luck.

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#3 of 19 Old 04-27-2009, 12:56 PM
 
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http://wonder.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_reps...5&mmwr_table=1


For me, this is the reason not to do it:

HIB cases - 10
Non serotype B - 64
Unknown serotype - 56
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#4 of 19 Old 04-27-2009, 05:15 PM
 
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Classen JB et al. Association between type 1 diabetes and Hib vaccine. BMJ 1999;319:1133.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/319/7217/1133

Quote:
Furthermore, the potential risk of the vaccine exceeds the potential benefit. We compared a group that received four doses of the vaccine, a group that received one dose, and a group that was not vaccinated. The cumulative incidence of diabetes per 100 000 in the three groups receiving four, one, and no doses of the vaccine was 261, 237, and 207 at age 7 and 398, 376, and 340 at age 10 respectively.
. Classen DC, Classen JB. The timing of pediatric immunization and the risk of insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus. Infectious Diseases in Clinical Practice 1997;6:449-54.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ers/108/6/e112

Classen JB, Classen DC. Immunisation and type 1 diabetes mellitus: is there a link? Drug Safety 1999;21:423-5

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#5 of 19 Old 04-27-2009, 05:33 PM
 
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Just because a vaccine has a low likelihood of having a reaction doesn't mean that they won't cause a reaction. My 3 month old had the polio vaccine at 2 months old (we thought we would do 1 vax at a time). We started with that one because it was supposed to have next to no chance of a severe reaction. She ended up having uncontrollable screaming for the afternoon...hours at a time until her tongue changed colors. This baby very rarely ever cries for anything! And, unless she's in the carseat in which she will cry a lot, even if she is hurt she stops crying within a minute. At 3 months, we had her get the HIB vaccine...another one with supposed low reactions. She slept for nearly 24 straight hours afterwards--we had to force breastmilk into her. And she ended up with pretty awful diarreah for 48 hours after the vax- -she had no other signs of illness so I don't think it's something she just picked up...and it certainly happened too soon after going to the doctors so she didn't get it from other kids there. She's also breastfed.

So, no more vaxes for her. She had the supposed rare severe reactions that they tell you happens once in a blue moon. For reference, my oldest child also had a severe reaction to DTaP.

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#6 of 19 Old 04-27-2009, 08:19 PM
 
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The reason I would not get the vaccine is because I believe in the immune system. A baby that was bfed until 20 months (or longer), is unvaxed, and eats good food is very healthy! I don't know why so many people are so afraid of getting sick or having their kids get sick. It is part of life, and part of what helps us to survive. I believe that vaxing would only serve to weaken your LO's immune system and subject him to added toxins and potential long term illnesses. I can't remember the exact stat, but I believe that before the vaccine was ever introduced, something like 95% of kids were immune to Hib (without symptoms) before age 5.
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#7 of 19 Old 04-27-2009, 08:50 PM
 
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My daughter got her prevnar and a hib at her 18thish month visit, within a couple of months she was deathly ill with an s. pneumo bacterial illness. Hilary helped me to connect the dots. IMHO had Morgan not gotten those two vaccines together, she wouldn't have almost died due to the infection she got. There is substantial proof that when you give the Hib vax that it increases the risks of getting s. pneumo. We are proof of that. Thankfully, our daughter is still alive.
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#8 of 19 Old 04-27-2009, 09:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Zillabaubles View Post
My daughter got her prevnar and a hib at her 18thish month visit, within a couple of months she was deathly ill with an s. pneumo bacterial illness. Hilary helped me to connect the dots. IMHO had Morgan not gotten those two vaccines together, she wouldn't have almost died due to the infection she got. There is substantial proof that when you give the Hib vax that it increases the risks of getting s. pneumo. We are proof of that. Thankfully, our daughter is still alive.
So scary....this is one of the main reasons I don't vax my child at all. Glad your babe is ok!

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#9 of 19 Old 04-28-2009, 07:28 AM
 
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I would get the vaccination. The side effects are low and you'll feel better that you did. It's only ONE, instead of several! The benefits outweigh the risks.
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#10 of 19 Old 04-28-2009, 10:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lollicup View Post
I would get the vaccination. The side effects are low and you'll feel better that you did. It's only ONE, instead of several! The benefits outweigh the risks.
Without knowing anything about this child's personal risk factors I don't know how you can make that determination. Just because it is only 1 shot, doesn't mean that the benefits outweigh the risks. As for feeling better that she gets just this 1 shot, perhaps you felt that way, but I don't see how you can make that determination for another person. To original poster...research research research....The ACTHIB is also one I have not ruled out for my DS. Everytime I think about going ahead and getting it for him because "the side effects are low and it's just 1 shot", I feel sick, I get a pit in my stomach and feel panicky. I can't ignore that.....

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#11 of 19 Old 04-28-2009, 12:59 PM
 
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I would get the vaccination. The side effects are low and you'll feel better that you did. It's only ONE, instead of several! The benefits outweigh the risks.
Choosing to vaccinate based on alleviating parental fear is not a great strategy. The decision, for or against, should be based on a thorough analysis of all research, not emotions.

Many people have had side effects after "just one" shot. So, that blanket recommendation to just go ahead cannot be made for everyone.

Benefit versus risk is different for every single family. No one can make this recommendation for anyone else.

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#12 of 19 Old 04-28-2009, 01:42 PM
 
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This is from the CDC's Pink Book-

Quote:
In 1998–2000, approximately 44% of children younger than 5 years of age with confirmed invasive Hib disease were younger than 6 months of age and too young to have completed a three-dose primary vaccination series. Fifty-six percent were age 6 months or older and were eligible to have completed the primary vaccination series. Of these age-eligible children, 68% were either incompletely vaccinated (fewer than 3 doses) or their vaccination status was unknown. Thirty-two percent of children aged 6–59 months with confirmed type b disease had received three or more doses of Hib vaccine, including 22 who had received a booster dose 14 or more days before onset of their illness. The cause of Hib vaccine failure in these children is not known.
I personally can't get past this when considering the Hib vaccine.

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#13 of 19 Old 03-22-2011, 04:20 PM
 
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Hi Stacey05,

 

I just came across your post from April '09 and couldn't believe the similarity in how you verbalized your decision making with the HiB vaccine and how I feel at this exact moment.  Two years later, I am curious to know which path you took and how you have felt about your decision.   I am currently in anguish over deciding which and how many vaccines to get for my 31 month old non-vaxed daughter.  I have 7 year old twins (received only their 0-18 month vaxes) that are constantly bringing home germs, and despite our best efforts to stay healthy we have had a pretty rough winter.  They all had influenza B last month, which put my 2 1/2 year old in the hospital.  And she has been treated with 2 rounds of antibiotics since November for conjunctivitis and ear infections (her only two ever.)  They were all breast-fed until 14 months, but I am assuming that has no benefit at this point.  Another question to all mothers would be - how do you keep your kids immune systems in tip-top shape?  What supplements do you recommend?  Currently we do JuicePlus, Bio-K liquid probiotics, and elderberry on occasion.

 

Thanks in advance!!

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#14 of 19 Old 03-30-2011, 12:47 PM
 
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momoftwinsplus1:

we do probiotics, cod liver oil, and if hes coming down with something we do vit. c and an elderberry supplement.

 

i also really limit his sugar, so no juices or treats unless we're celebrating something, and i try my best to eat a whole food diet with many greens and vegetables. coconut oil, bee pollen, and sun is shining green powder in our smoothies.

 

we still get colds/coughs and such.  and i think making sure they're eliminating daily is really important and the general stress level is low and a happy home is provided:)

 

but as for the breastmilk-though you are not bf now, i believe there are still benefits that bf children receive long after they were breastfed. 

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#15 of 19 Old 03-31-2011, 12:26 AM
 
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Protective Effect of Breastfeeding on
Invasive Haemophilus influenzae
Infection: A Case-Control Study in
Swedish Preschool Children
 
c&p this into google and read the article. It is for free.
 
 
also a free article.
 
 
On US children and risk factors for invasive Hi.
 
Not every child is at equal risk. Race, health status, breastfeeding status/history, living conditions, care environment all have a role to play.

Megan, mama to her little boy (Feb2008) and introducing our little girl (Dec 2010)
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#16 of 19 Old 03-31-2011, 02:18 PM
 
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Thanks so much for the info.  It is comforting to know that BF may still have some lingering benefits.  Also, I do keep hearing of cod liver oil supplement, but can't imagine that it tastes good?  Do you have a source where you get it, or a tip on how you get your kids to take it?

 

Thank you!

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#17 of 19 Old 03-31-2011, 02:47 PM
 
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we just use the carlsons for kids lemon flavor.  my 3 yr old just takes it by the spoon-he seems to like it.  

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#18 of 19 Old 04-11-2011, 02:15 PM
 
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Dr. Sears is pretty supportive of the HIB vaccine but he even says after 1 year it's kind of pointless, since under a year is when it is most dangerous.


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#19 of 19 Old 04-30-2011, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi.  Wow!  It HAS been 2 years since I posted this!!  My son is almost 4 now and still unvaxed. I will be honest and say this vaccine is the one that gave/gives me the most grief.  I decide and then I would get nervous again.  I read a scientific study that said breastfeeding protects even after you have stopped bf'ing. My son is very healthy, praise the Lord!  I do give him supplements too.  I give him juice plus, multivitamin, cod liver oil (carlson's lemon flavor in juice or a spoon with a drop of Dr. T's vitamin D3 (1000iu), and a probiotic daily....also lots of good rest and sunshine and play.  My older kids were vaxed until I had one (my 4th) have a possible neurological reaction to his 4 month vaccines.  I am learning more and more and always researching!  I would love to know what you decide. 

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Vaccinations , Hib , Prevnar Pneumococcal , Serotype Replacement

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