New England Journal of Medicine takes on vaccine dissent - Mothering Forums

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Old 05-07-2009, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/360/19/1981

There is a good section where they recommend doctors do not throw nonvaccinating families out of the practice.


Some of the pertussis stuff I had not seen before.

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Old 05-07-2009, 11:40 AM
 
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"Continued refusal after adequate discussion should be respected unless the child is put at significant risk of serious harm (e.g., as might be the case during an epidemic). Only then should state agencies be involved to override parental discretion on the basis of medical neglect."

: I really don't like this idea.

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Old 05-07-2009, 12:46 PM
 
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Let look at the authors:
Saad B. Omer, M.B., B.S., Ph.D., M.P.H., Daniel A. Salmon, Ph.D., M.P.H., Walter A. Orenstein, M.D., M. Patricia deHart, Sc.D., and Neal Halsey, M.D.

Most of these people are directly connected to Johns Hopkins School of Public Health which directly connected to the Institute for Vaccine Safety

Saad B Omar :The associate director of the Institute for Vaccine Safety at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

http://www.globalhealth.emory.edu/pr...grams/omer.php
Quote:
Dr. Omer was an assistant scientist in the Global Disease Epidemiology and Control Program at Johns Hopkins University, where he received his doctorate in international health in 2006.
Daniel Salmon, Ph.D., M.P.H.
Vaccine Safety Specialist, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, member of the The National Vaccine Advisory Committee (NVAC) He is also on Merck's advisory board: http://apha.confex.com/apha/135am/te...per_164974.htm

http://www.hhs.gov/nvpo/nvac/minutes20080411.html

http://faculty.jhsph.edu/default.cfm...ional%20Health

Quote:
Dr. Salmon's primary research and practice interests are in optimizing the prevention of childhood infectious diseases through the use of vaccines.
WALTER A. ORENSTEIN, M.D., professor of medicine and director, program for vaccine policy and development, department of medicine, Emory University, Atlanta; Formerly Director of the National Immunization Program at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), He served as the CDC liaison member to the National Vaccine Advisory Committee for more than 14 years, having played a major role in development of critical immunization policy. During the same period as Dr. Orenstein served on the National Vaccine Advisory Committee, he also served as CDC liaison to the American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Infectious Diseases (COID), the major immunization policy making body for private pediatricians.

http://www.vaccines.emory.edu/scient...renstein.shtml


Neal A. Halsey, M.D., chairperson of the AAP Committee on Infectious Diseases, director of the Institute for Vaccine Safety, which was established in 1997 at the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health.He has been a member or advisory member of the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP).

http://faculty.jhsph.edu/default.cfm...ional%20Health

Dr. Halsey Serves on the advisory board to the Immunization Action Coalition, an advocacy group funded by vaccine makers including: Aventis Pasteur, Chiron Corporation, Glaxo Wellcome, Merck & Co., Nabi, North American Vaccine, SmithKline-Beecham, Wyeth-Lederle Vaccines.

Quote:
Dr. Neal Halsey of Johns Hopkins University. Like Katz, he is a vaccine pioneer and served on ACIP and the Red Book committees. He, too, is an advisor to the Immunization Action Coalition and the Hepatitis B Coalition. Halsey is also director of the Institute for Vaccine Safety, which he founded at Johns Hopkins to provide a forum on vaccine safety, among other things. According to a Johns Hopkins' spokesperson, the institute receives funds from Merck, SmithKline Beecham, North American Vaccines, Connaught/Pasteur Merrieux and Wyeth-Lederle."
Nicholas Regush ABCNEWS.com (Nicholas Regush is an ABC News journalist specializing in medical and scientific issues. He was, for 12 years, an award-winning investigative reporter for the Montreal Gazette, and worked for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.)

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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Old 05-07-2009, 01:13 PM
 
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Overall, it was nothing new and showed very little understanding of us as a whole. By "us" I mean everyone who deviates in any way from the standard AAP schedule. It saddens me.

There was zero meaningful discussion of people who choose to skip a few vaccines, and there are strong arguments, very based in conventional science, for skipping several vaccines on the schedule. I can, to some extent, understand them totally dismissing people like me who no longer vaccinate at all, but to not understand at any level that selectively vaccinating is a very moderate, reasonable choice, not at all fringe or trendy or alternative, shows a huge gap in understanding. And this attitude will only increase the credibility gap that is becoming more and more problematic for CDC and the AAP.

The one thing I appreciated was that, in the very first paragraph, they recommend against doctors dismissing non-vaccinating patients. Since so many people are having such problems finding and keeping a doctor, I think mentioning that prominently is nice--it probably won't change anything, but it's still nice.
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Old 05-07-2009, 01:21 PM
 
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This article is just RIDDLED w/conflict of interest and greed and WOW. The fact that they think they should override a parent for medical neglect is really criminal. What a dangerous corporation Merck is, next they'll be saying if you don't allow your child to participate in genetic experiments that your guilty of medical neglect...they can play with this 'neglect' theory they have for almost anything involved in medicine to coerce you to participate in any pharmecutical trials/experiments/therapy.
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Old 05-07-2009, 01:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sileree View Post
Quote:
"Continued refusal after adequate discussion should be respected unless the child is put at significant risk of serious harm (e.g., as might be the case during an epidemic). Only then should state agencies be involved to override parental discretion on the basis of medical neglect."
: I really don't like this idea.
Me either! : I can't help but wonder at the sheer audacity of them thinking they can make better decisions for our children than we can. Because if there is an epidemic, the BEST thing I can do is inject my children with neurotoxins and foreign proteins, rather than give them adequate nutrition to support their bodies as well as additional things to increase immune support.

It just REALLY frosts my muffins that these guys NEVER talk about the role of nutrition in health, but see drugs and vaxes as what can make you "healthy." Well... I fear their definition of true health differs significantly from mine!
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Old 05-07-2009, 01:58 PM
 
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after the paid, organized parent discussions a few months ago in Ashland, OR and Indiana, you would think that these people would have a deep understanding of the parents' concern. (sarcasm), but no.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
There was zero meaningful discussion of people who choose to skip a few vaccines, and there are strong arguments, very based in conventional science, for skipping several vaccines on the schedule. I can, to some extent, understand them totally dismissing people like me who no longer vaccinate at all, but to not understand at any level that selectively vaccinating is a very moderate, reasonable choice, not at all fringe or trendy or alternative, shows a huge gap in understanding. And this attitude will only increase the credibility gap that is becoming more and more problematic for CDC and the AAP.
I've thought about this point often. The selective vaxers are at least giving the vaccine movement some benefit of the doubt, but they are the ones who are probably the most frustrating and upsetting to the movement. With us non-vaxers, we are just a bunch of crackpots they write off as conspiracy theorists, but the selective and delayed vaxers are fence riders. The movement, meaning the researchers and doctors, are going to come after them just as bad or worse, as alluded to. To say we kind of believe what you are telling us but not really, is not going to fly with these people. To them, it is all or nothing. Either you believe us or you don't.

Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. - Oscar Wilde
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:56 PM
 
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So basically they're saying that in case of an "epidemic" (which has a variable definition) pediatricians should be encouraged to call CPS on parents who refuse to vaccinate.

I take two things from this insane statement:

1.) We need to stop going to pediatricians and just find a good, old-fashioned GP. Thanks for finally convincing me that most pediatricians don't have my child's best interests in mind, AAP!

and

2.) Who the do these people think they are? The arrogance and hubris and cult-like adherence to dogma are positively scary. And THESE are the zealots we're supposed to trust with our family's health? You've got to be joking.

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Old 05-07-2009, 04:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peainthepod View Post
So basically they're saying that in case of an "epidemic" (which has a variable definition) pediatricians should be encouraged to call CPS on parents who refuse to vaccinate.

I take two things from this insane statement:

1.) We need to stop going to pediatricians and just find a good, old-fashioned GP. Thanks for finally convincing me that most pediatricians don't have my child's best interests in mind, AAP!
I think what will happen is that in the case of an epidemic, selective and non-vaxers will stop seeing doctors entirely.

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