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#1 of 20 Old 05-07-2009, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm due July 21st and I'm not sure if we are vaxxing or not. I really don't want to...but I haven't read much on why it's bad. I did have DD vax'd until she was almost 2 then quit.

Dh wants to vax...he hasn't read much on the subject either, but is very pro-science, pro-western medicine, etc, so he just "trusts" that we should do it. He is willing to let me make all the decisions in the arena, but I want us to choose together. I don't want me to end up mad and him, or vice versa, should something go wrong (either vax induced or from not getting vaxed).

I'm not going to lie...I don't have much time to research into vaccinations. I'm a full time mom and student and B-U-S-Y. Plus, i'm nesting like a mo-fo (haha) and yeah...basically driving myself nutty.

Can anyone give me some simple, science based (from an actual medical doctor, not naturopath or homeopath) facts with links on the subject of vax?

PS. I don't really think autism is vax induced, because their would be a lot more cases of it if it were, but i do think that vax's may trigger something in a child that may already be prone to autism...I'm not sure It's worth it. Also, i know there are a lot of other yucky things in the vax's that i'm not sure i want pumped into my baby.

Anyway - help me convince myself and my dh. TIA!
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#2 of 20 Old 05-07-2009, 05:24 PM
 
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I'm sorry to say this but there is no simple anything when it comes to this subject. I hear you are busy, but you can't just read a few things and make a decision based on that. This is a complex and in depth topic that is surrounded by a ton of contoversy and conflicting information. It takes time to wade through it and make a truly informed choice.
Therefore it is my advice that you do not vaccinate your child until you have done enough research to make a truly infomred choice. It will take time and effort and energy on your part, but to say you are too busy to look into it is frankly not an option. This is one of the most important health desicions you will make for your child and can have lifetime ramifications.


With that being said I would recommend the following. Go disease by disease and vax by vax, Look at one at a time.

Read all the chapets of the pink book
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/Pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm

next look at the ingredients of each vaccine
http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm

look up any ingredient you are not familiar with.

There are several books written by Doctors about the dangers of vaccination.

"What your doctor may not tell you about childhood vaccines" by Dr. Stephanie Cave is one

Dr. Sherry Tenpenny is a expert on vaccine safety..check out her website

http://www.sayingnotovaccines.com/

Do not rush this. You can always vaccinate later, but once you have injected your baby, there is no taking it back.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#3 of 20 Old 05-07-2009, 05:45 PM
 
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I agree with Marnica. This does take time to read about. This is not a decision to be made lightly.

I would begin with reading these books:

http://www.amazon.com/Vaccinations-T...1728700&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Raise-Healthy-...1728757&sr=1-1

You have to be willing to be able to accept that your child might contract a disease and not be fearful of that.

Laura~ wife to my stuntman, Stig, mama to Gavin Rutgar reading.gif(4) and now Wyatt Andreas (1) and 2 little angel1.gif.

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#4 of 20 Old 05-07-2009, 07:44 PM
 
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Argh. I wrote out a long detailed reply and the computer lost it when I had to re-login before it would post.

Anyway -- the short version this time:
You said you hadn't had time to look into why vax might be bad: they contain heavy metals and weakened viruses. A young baby/child might not be able to process and excrete the metals or fight the viruses. Some people (doctors, researchers) think this could be leading to current epidemics in autism, ADHD, allergies, asthma, other stuff like type I diabetes, autoimmune disease, and of course, there have long been documented "adverse vaccine reactions" like seizures, brain damage and death. Others (doctors, researchers) refute the links. As a layperson I think it's hard to know who to believe, the only thing I think I can say and be reasonably certain it's true is that the safety of vaccines, especially of cumulative vaccines, has yet to be proven definitively.

You also said your husband is pro-science and western medicine and just trusts vax should be done... I just want to comment here that other western countries do not give as many vax as the US/UK does. See what EU countries do here: www.euvac.net -- Sweden is our comparison because that's where my DH is from and he trusts his government more than I trust mine.

At the risk of being overly obvious -- if you are really low on time, I would just print out the CDC schedule and start from there. It's not an all-or-nothing decision, you can choose to get some vax but not others, and you can choose to get them later. When I did this I found I was able to eliminate several vax based on information I already had. For example, Hep B is mostly transmitted through sexual/blood contact so unless someone in my household were positive, it made little sense to vax my child for it. And chickenpox -- well, I and everyone I know had it and we're all fine, so I scratched that one off too.

Poppan ~ twins born April 2007
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#5 of 20 Old 05-07-2009, 07:46 PM
 
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The Sears selective schedule might be a good place to start too:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=995581

Poppan ~ twins born April 2007
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#6 of 20 Old 05-07-2009, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the info so far

And let me clarify...I have already decided not to vax until I am comfortable with the amount of information I've seen, and can make an informed decision. Dh will be a-ok with that, I'm sure.

Also, i think my "lack of time" is being mistaken for "lack of concern". I take my child(ren)s health very seriously and would never vaccinate just because i was too lazy to read some material. The fact is I don't have time to spend hours every day reading numerous facts/opinions on vaccines while in the meantime, ignoring my child, school work, husband, household duties, etc. I have SOME time to study - I just can't justify devoting my every waking moment to research...got it?

That being said - i think i have a good plan. I'm going to look into each disease and the vaccinations for those diseases as a start. Then go from there I've bookmarked the CDC pages, etc. and will look into those too. I think i'm going to get a bunch of info then write out the most important parts for my DH.

I've been thinking about reading DR. Sears book too? Opinions on this? TIA!
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#7 of 20 Old 05-07-2009, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by poppan View Post
Argh. I wrote out a long detailed reply and the computer lost it when I had to re-login before it would post.

Anyway -- the short version this time:
You said you hadn't had time to look into why vax might be bad: they contain heavy metals and weakened viruses. A young baby/child might not be able to process and excrete the metals or fight the viruses. Some people (doctors, researchers) think this could be leading to current epidemics in autism, ADHD, allergies, asthma, other stuff like type I diabetes, autoimmune disease, and of course, there have long been documented "adverse vaccine reactions" like seizures, brain damage and death. Others (doctors, researchers) refute the links. As a layperson I think it's hard to know who to believe, the only thing I think I can say and be reasonably certain it's true is that the safety of vaccines, especially of cumulative vaccines, has yet to be proven definitively.

You also said your husband is pro-science and western medicine and just trusts vax should be done... I just want to comment here that other western countries do not give as many vax as the US/UK does. See what EU countries do here: www.euvac.net -- Sweden is our comparison because that's where my DH is from and he trusts his government more than I trust mine.

At the risk of being overly obvious -- if you are really low on time, I would just print out the CDC schedule and start from there. It's not an all-or-nothing decision, you can choose to get some vax but not others, and you can choose to get them later. When I did this I found I was able to eliminate several vax based on information I already had. For example, Hep B is mostly transmitted through sexual/blood contact so unless someone in my household were positive, it made little sense to vax my child for it. And chickenpox -- well, I and everyone I know had it and we're all fine, so I scratched that one off too.
Thank you so much for pointing out that other western countries don't vax as much as the US does! I'll definitely look into that and give my DH that info. I feel like i should've thought to look that one up on my own, lol, but whatever! Thanks again
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#8 of 20 Old 05-08-2009, 10:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by beansmama View Post
Thanks for the info so far

And let me clarify...I have already decided not to vax until I am comfortable with the amount of information I've seen, and can make an informed decision. Dh will be a-ok with that, I'm sure.

Also, i think my "lack of time" is being mistaken for "lack of concern". I take my child(ren)s health very seriously and would never vaccinate just because i was too lazy to read some material. The fact is I don't have time to spend hours every day reading numerous facts/opinions on vaccines while in the meantime, ignoring my child, school work, husband, household duties, etc. I have SOME time to study - I just can't justify devoting my every waking moment to research...got it?

That being said - i think i have a good plan. I'm going to look into each disease and the vaccinations for those diseases as a start. Then go from there I've bookmarked the CDC pages, etc. and will look into those too. I think i'm going to get a bunch of info then write out the most important parts for my DH.

I've been thinking about reading DR. Sears book too? Opinions on this? TIA!

I don't think anyone thinks you are not concerned about your child!! If that is the way my post came across Im sorry!! (not my intention at all) As a mother who works full-time and has lots of duties of her own, I fully appreciate the whole lack of time issue! I just wanted to convey that you shouldn't do anything until you have had a chance to research enough so that you make a truly infomed choice....no matter how long that takes..months, years...whatever, and it sounds like that is what you are saying! Good Luck. Looking into this issue has opened my eyes way more than I ever bargained for...sometimes I wish they were still shut! Ignorance is bliss as they say!

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#9 of 20 Old 05-08-2009, 12:24 PM
 
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Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding about vax.

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Inside Vaccines

Vaccines-The Risks, the Benefits, the Choices DVD, By Sherri J. TENPENNY

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


by on Apr. 29, 2009 at 9:24 AM

Vaccines : Are They Really Safe and Effective?

by Neil Z. ******, Forewords by George R. Schwartz, MD and Harold E. Buttram, MD

<img alt="Click here to view..." width="90" border="0" height="142">
Paperback - 127 pages Revised and Updated edition (August 2002)
New Atlantean Pr; ISBN: 1881217302 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.38 x 8.42 x 5.54
Vaccines, Autism and Childhood Disorders: Crucial Data That Could Save Your Child's Life

by Neil Z. ******
<img width="90" border="0" height="133">

Paperback - 128 pages (April 2003)
New Atlantean Pr; ISBN: 1881217329
When Your Doctor is Wrong, Hepatitis B Vaccine and Autism

by Judy Converse, MPH, RD; Forward by F.E. Yazbak, MD, FAAP


<img alt="Click here to view..." width="90" border="0" height="139">
Paperback - 296 pages (June 2002)
Xlibris Corporation; ISBN: 1401029736 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.66 x 8.50 x 5.5.
What Every Parent Should Know About Childhood Immunization

by Jamie Murphy


<img alt="Click here to view..." vspace="3" width="90" border="0" height="138" hspace="3">

Paperback
192 Pages
Earth Healing Products; ISBN: 0963037307; Dimensions (in inches): 0.75 x 8.50 x 5.75
A Shot in the Dark : Why the P in the DPT Vaccination May Be Hazardous to Your Child's Health

by Harris L. Coulter, Barbara Loe Fisher


<img alt="Click here to view..." vspace="3" width="90" border="0" height="134" hspace="3">

Paperback - 246 pages (July 1991)
Avery Pub Group; ISBN: 089529463X ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.68 x 9.01 x 6.25



Immunizations : The Terrible Risks Your Children Face That Your Doctor Won't Reveal

by Robert S. Mendelsohn

Plastic Comb (December 1993)
Second Opinion Pub Inc; ISBN: 0962664693


How to Raise a Healthy Child : In Spite of Your Doctor

by Robert S. Mendelsohn

<img alt="Click here to view..." width="90" border="0" height="150">
Mass Market Paperback Rei edition (June 1990)
Ballantine Books; ISBN: 0345342763 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.99 x 6.89 x 4.26
What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations

by Stephanie Cave, Deborah Mitchell (Contributor)


<img alt="Click here to view..." width="90" border="0" height="139">
Paperback - 315 pages (September 2001)
Warner Books; ISBN: 0446677078 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.91 x 8.04 x 5.22.
"Evidence of Harm" by David Kirby


Hope This Helps!!!!

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#10 of 20 Old 05-08-2009, 01:24 PM
 
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I've been thinking about reading DR. Sears book too? Opinions on this? TIA!
I liked the Sears book. Each chapter is on a different vaccine. He tells you what the disease is, complications, death rate if any, vaccine ingredients, pros, cons, and a bottom line summary.

Like you, I'm working on "our vaccine decision" right now -- have put it off for far too long. I'm making my spreadsheet and reading up. I thought the Sears book is a fairly good one-stop-shop book, but I am not as well read as the other mamas here. I'm also really digging the CDC "pink book" (linked in Emmeline's post above). It's a little on the technical side but it has all the statistics I've been looking for all along -- historical US data as well as data for what happened in recent outbreaks in the US. It doesn't have that much on vaccine reaction/adverse events, but for me I'm just going with the basic notion that the safety of any vaccine is generally not proven -- so the vaccine has to be really "worthwhile" before I am going to decide yes for that shot.

Poppan ~ twins born April 2007
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#11 of 20 Old 05-08-2009, 02:41 PM
 
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Thanks for the info so far

I've been thinking about reading DR. Sears book too? Opinions on this? TIA!
Dr. Sears is extremely pro-vax with a huge financial interests in vaxing. He sells a TON of books by being a "natural" doctor who recommends vaxing. He makes a ton of money giving vaxes at his practice.

He also says things that are extremely inconsistent, that ultimately make him more money... like saying newborns aren't at risk for hep b, so don't give it after birth, but do give it at their 2-month appt... hmmmm..... he must meet some 2-month olds that engage in much riskier behaviors than newborns. Either that, or he doesn't make money on that vax if t is given at the hospital. He also completely changed his tune on chicken pox once a vax became available.

If you or dh have some time to watch videos, you can find these online:
"Vaccine Nation"
"Vaccination- The Hidden Truth"
Anything by Dr. Tenpenny

Or quickly look at these graphs:
http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/web1.html
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#12 of 20 Old 05-13-2009, 02:25 AM
 
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Dr. Sears is extremely pro-vax with a huge financial interests in vaxing. He sells a TON of books by being a "natural" doctor who recommends vaxing. He makes a ton of money giving vaxes at his practice.

He also says things that are extremely inconsistent, that ultimately make him more money... like saying newborns aren't at risk for hep b, so don't give it after birth, but do give it at their 2-month appt... hmmmm..... he must meet some 2-month olds that engage in much riskier behaviors than newborns. Either that, or he doesn't make money on that vax if t is given at the hospital. He also completely changed his tune on chicken pox once a vax became available.

If you or dh have some time to watch videos, you can find these online:
"Vaccine Nation"
"Vaccination- The Hidden Truth"
Anything by Dr. Tenpenny

Or quickly look at these graphs:
http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/web1.html
Hep B at two months? No...Dr. Sears Alternative Schedule lists Heb b at 2.5 years...of course I'm hoping that even two year olds won't be having sex or doing IV drugs either...

http://www.usnews.com/dbimages/maste...03Vaccines.png
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#13 of 20 Old 05-13-2009, 10:05 AM
 
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Lots of info here based on medical literature..

http://www.exploringvaccines.com/
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#14 of 20 Old 05-13-2009, 10:28 AM
 
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I don't really think autism is vax induced, because their would be a lot more cases of it if it were,
1 in 150 children isn't a lot?

Dr. Eisenstein is doing a webinar on the 29th with Neil Z ******. You can get details and sign up at http://www.homefirst.com/ and here is his page on vax info http://www.homefirst.com/homefirst_v...philosopy.html

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#15 of 20 Old 05-13-2009, 10:56 AM
 
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1 in 150 children isn't a lot?

Dr. Eisenstein is doing a webinar on the 29th with Neil Z ******. You can get details and sign up at http://www.homefirst.com/ and here is his page on vax info http://www.homefirst.com/homefirst_v...philosopy.html

I believe it's 1 in 50 boys in New Jersey right now

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#16 of 20 Old 05-13-2009, 11:25 AM
 
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I believe it's 1 in 50 boys in New Jersey right now


I just asked my husband, who went to a school ('86-'91) for children with disabilities (he was labeled anti-social) and he said he can't remember a single one with autism. I remember one from my public school ('91-'93).

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#17 of 20 Old 05-14-2009, 02:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Emmeline II View Post
Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding about vax.

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.
I say take this to your ped and if he/she can't answer these questions or isn't willing to, there's your answer

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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I just asked my husband, who went to a school ('86-'91) for children with disabilities (he was labeled anti-social) and he said he can't remember a single one with autism. I remember one from my public school ('91-'93).
I worked with special needs kids in middle school and HS (1976-1983)...I only came across 1 with autism in all those years. I live in a midsized city (population approx. 83,000), my middle school had approx. 550 students and my HS had approx. 1300 students...and we only had 1 kid with autism......something is happening and it's not just better diagnosis.

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