Freaking out about swine flu vaccine, can anyone make me feel better? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 342 Old 07-28-2009, 05:10 PM
 
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yes..this is true. they keep saying its hitting children and young adults more heavily than the usual flu - but this just means they are getting the virus - not dying from it.

regarding nasal spray swine flu: sure - the side effects might be less for the individual as far as adjuvants go, however, the problem with flu mist is you are purposely implanting the LIVE virus in healthy human tissue - giving it yet another opportunity to rearrange and recombine and mutate....this is the risk with the seasonal flumist as well. giving it to every child on the same day in a single school is just begging for it to create an offshoot (or give every kid in the school a case of the swine flu - the mist does shed...in fact users of seasonal flumist are supposed to avoid the immunocompromised for 3 weeks!). adding the live virus to a school of kids is just plain irresponsible. they go swine flu mist in our schools - the kids get at least a week off!
Yes to bolded. Dr. Tenpenny addressed this in her webinar last night. She says that the mist is NOT safer and sited recent research (march '09)

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#62 of 342 Old 07-28-2009, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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yes..this is true. they keep saying its hitting children and young adults more heavily than the usual flu - but this just means they are getting the virus - not dying from it.

regarding nasal spray swine flu: sure - the side effects might be less for the individual as far as adjuvants go, however, the problem with flu mist is you are purposely implanting the LIVE virus in healthy human tissue - giving it yet another opportunity to rearrange and recombine and mutate....this is the risk with the seasonal flumist as well. giving it to every child on the same day in a single school is just begging for it to create an offshoot (or give every kid in the school a case of the swine flu - the mist does shed...in fact users of seasonal flumist are supposed to avoid the immunocompromised for 3 weeks!). adding the live virus to a school of kids is just plain irresponsible. they go swine flu mist in our schools - the kids get at least a week off!


I totally agree with you, neither the mist or the vaccine is a good idea!!! Im just trying to think of which will be less harmful if everyone is actually FORCED to get one or the other... And I guess Id have to pick the flumist... But I hope it doesnt come down to being forced ...
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#63 of 342 Old 07-29-2009, 05:49 PM
 
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The Military is on it's way.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/28/military.swine.flu/

OT but related: this is what happens when the military comes to "help"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm5PC7z79-8&NR=1
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#64 of 342 Old 07-29-2009, 06:05 PM
 
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wth? :

Things just keep getting weirder and weirder. :

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#65 of 342 Old 07-29-2009, 08:50 PM
 
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nak
our mainstream Dr is NOT recommending it! Says not necessary and the media is scaring people unneccesarily!

still learning
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#66 of 342 Old 07-29-2009, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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nak
our mainstream Dr is NOT recommending it! Says not necessary and the media is scaring people unneccesarily!
This is good to hear!! Are any other mainstream dr's saying this??
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#67 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am curious about something else. I just read this article.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=alZncUEvwtIM


I thought that squalene had already been added to the vaccines....
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#68 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 06:09 AM
 
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Everyone up to date on this new turn of events?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/military...-outbreak.html

and

http://www.naturalnews.com/026732_mi..._outbreak.html

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
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#69 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This just keeps getting worse and worse. I try to stop thinking about it for awhile but then keep reading these articles. So, what are you all doing to prepare?? I feel like I should be doing something. Are any of you planning on leaving the US? Where would you go? Not sure there is anywhere to go.. This is really scary to me and Im not sure what to do next...
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#70 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 10:34 AM
 
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Please everyone, remember that the military member has NO SAY in what missions they are/will be required to perform. What is really happening is that lawmakers (who are wedded to Big Pharma) are gearing up to deploy people in this effort. There isn't a bunch of military men and women sitting around in their tents thinking up ways to come and take over your autonomy. There are men and women whose job it is to be ready to deploy at a moment's notice to help aid in domestic crisis. They prepare in advance of natural disasters and are there with food, water, medicine, etc as soon as it is safe for them to enter the area. They don't plan these missions. That happens at a much, much higher pay grade than any military person will ever achieve. Please make sure that your (justified) anger is directed at the right level.

I am not in that career field, but FWIW, if this ever comes to me, I would refuse. I believe that an order to forcibly vaccinate someone is in direct violation of the Constitution, and therefore illegal. Military members are prohibited from following illegal orders. I would probably go to jail, but I would refuse.
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#71 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 11:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Pirogi View Post
Please everyone, remember that the military member has NO SAY in what missions they are/will be required to perform. What is really happening is that lawmakers (who are wedded to Big Pharma) are gearing up to deploy people in this effort. There isn't a bunch of military men and women sitting around in their tents thinking up ways to come and take over your autonomy. There are men and women whose job it is to be ready to deploy at a moment's notice to help aid in domestic crisis. They prepare in advance of natural disasters and are there with food, water, medicine, etc as soon as it is safe for them to enter the area. They don't plan these missions. That happens at a much, much higher pay grade than any military person will ever achieve. Please make sure that your (justified) anger is directed at the right level.

I am not in that career field, but FWIW, if this ever comes to me, I would refuse. I believe that an order to forcibly vaccinate someone is in direct violation of the Constitution, and therefore illegal. Military members are prohibited from following illegal orders. I would probably go to jail, but I would refuse.
do people actually blame soldiers for this kind of thing : To me it was more of a shock that the government may or may not be moving in forces for whatever reason. Especially since it's been SO mild so far...

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#72 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 12:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pirogi View Post
Please everyone, remember that the military member has NO SAY in what missions they are/will be required to perform. What is really happening is that lawmakers (who are wedded to Big Pharma) are gearing up to deploy people in this effort. There isn't a bunch of military men and women sitting around in their tents thinking up ways to come and take over your autonomy. There are men and women whose job it is to be ready to deploy at a moment's notice to help aid in domestic crisis. They prepare in advance of natural disasters and are there with food, water, medicine, etc as soon as it is safe for them to enter the area. They don't plan these missions. That happens at a much, much higher pay grade than any military person will ever achieve. Please make sure that your (justified) anger is directed at the right level.
In what effort? The CNN piece was intentionally vague but many of here have read the acts that give much more power to the military than assistance in distributing food and water.

I hear you but hard to keep in mind if you are staring down the barrel of a gun and possibly being forced to be vaccinated.
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#73 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 12:12 PM
 
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I posted the CNN link above.... it's freaky, isn't it? To me it's the beginning.
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#74 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 12:46 PM
 
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In what effort? The CNN piece was intentionally vague but many of here have read the acts that give much more power to the military than assistance in distributing food and water.

I hear you but hard to keep in mind if you are staring down the barrel of a gun and possibly being forced to be vaccinated.
As far as I know, no one is staring at the business end of any weapon over any vaccine at this point. My point is to remind people that most military people aren't interesting in taking away your freedoms. There are a large percentage of sheeple in the military - it's sort of a cultural requirement. They don't have illusions of ruling over civilians in some sort of police state. They truly believe they are protecting you from the "bad guys," whether you agree with that assessment of our reality or not. I only ask that you direct your anger at the people who are in charge. And individual military members are certainly not in charge of their own destiny, until they are issued an illegal order.

Once military members do begin to threaten people with vaccination against their will, then I will agree with you that they have become dangerous and are acting illegally and without moral scruples.

More likely though, the military will be used to bring in the vaccines, set up sites for mass vaccination, and guard quaratine areas for individuals who do not comply. Would that be in violation of the Constitution? I don't know.
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#75 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 01:29 PM
 
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The military already assist in emergencies and hand out food and water and all that. If there the pandemic turns into something much more serious than it is right now in the fall then I could see using the military to help with the 'emergency,' but I did not read this as any sign that they are going to come and force vaccinations.

Quote:
Civilian authorities would lead any relief efforts in the event of a major outbreak, the official said. The military, as they would for a natural disaster or other significant emergency situation, could provide support and fulfill any tasks that civilian authorities could not, such as air transport or testing of large numbers of viral samples from infected patients.
This just seems completely logical to me. It's part of what the guard/reserves do in this country.

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#76 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 01:32 PM
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Let's hope FEMA handles this better than they did Hurricane Katrina.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#77 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 01:43 PM
 
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The military already assist in emergencies and hand out food and water and all that. If there the pandemic turns into something much more serious than it is right now in the fall then I could see using the military to help with the 'emergency,' but I did not read this as any sign that they are going to come and force vaccinations.



This just seems completely logical to me. It's part of what the guard/reserves do in this country.
but there is no emergency... they are creating the emergency... there is no reason for this 'mass' vaccination. This is ridiculous, and it's a complete and total violation by corporate pharmecutical companies ... pharmcutical executives have no business making decisions about public health or sitting on the board of the WHO... the conflict of interest is absurd... this should be so illegal... the problem is our government has lost total control and we are now subject to the whim of a very dangerously corrupt medical system/corporation. Corporations should not have this kind of access to government... this whole flu thing is absurd, and quite possibly purposely engineered in every way ...
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#78 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 01:48 PM
 
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Let's hope FEMA handles this better than they did Hurricane Katrina.
i like your quote that dogs are like doctors.. but we need to put them on a leash.. much shorter leashes.


"parents are simply trustees of thier children.. they don't own their bodies.. niether should the government or the pedi, maybe we should just give custody back to the parents.. yea that sounds a bit right to me... tired of the old slogans that seek to break those family bonds and make parents feel as if they don't have rights to thier children"
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#79 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 01:48 PM
 
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I suppose the emergency things depends on your definition and how things look in the fall; note this whole military preparation is only in case it gets worse in the fall. and they say nothing about using them to mass vaccinate.

The rest of your post I am not sure what it has to do with mine, so I can't really answer you.

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#80 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 02:09 PM
 
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"parents are simply trustees of thier children.. they don't own their bodies.. niether should the government or the pedi, maybe we should just give custody back to the parents.. yea that sounds a bit right to me... tired of the old slogans that seek to break those family bonds and make parents feel as if they don't have rights to thier children
I take it you are trying to make a point to me by using the quote in my signature. I am not sure how to answer you though because I don't agree with mandatory vaccination, but I also do not see mandatory vaccination happening here.

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#81 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 05:52 PM
 
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Once military members do begin to threaten people with vaccination against their will, then I will agree with you that they have become dangerous and are acting illegally and without moral scruples.
Actually, not true. GW gave the military power extraordinary power over the public regarding disease and pandemics making much of what they can do quite legal. I do not have time to dig up the links, maybe someone else can. Their actions, should they go against how you and I might interpret the constitution, will have the full backing of the bills that I don't have time to dig up. And as you already pointed out, the military is not ''allowed" to have scruples. Spend some time watching some video on what the military did in Katerina and you will see a NOT so benign picture of what they can and would do to US citizens.

IMO, this is all very much orchestrated.... with TPTB the beneficiaries and most of us just pawns in a huge political and financial game.

Here is one of them, I think there are two. Google another site for the bill if you don't like this one. I just grabbed the first one. Welcome 1984.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=3618
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#82 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 06:44 PM
 
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The relationship between the military task forces and the Posse Comitatus Act (which forbids the use of U.S. military troops in civilian operations on U.S. soil) has not been addressed.

[Maybe it has been addressed in Sec 1076... which is why it was drafted]

It is well known that large populations can be led to cooperate voluntary with controlling governmental entities by a relentless barrage of publicity surrounding a putative threat to their health. The supposed severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) “epidemic” of 2003 demonstrated this in textbook fashion. The potential threat of SARS was widely publicized in the mainstream media for a number of weeks and caused a great deal of alarm among the public. Then, it literally disappeared from the governmental-mass media radar, leaving those with long attention spans wondering whether the "threat" actually existed.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index....alth-care/1545
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#83 of 342 Old 07-30-2009, 07:35 PM
 
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Actually, not true. GW gave the military power extraordinary power over the public regarding disease and pandemics making much of what they can do quite legal. I do not have time to dig up the links, maybe someone else can. Their actions, should they go against how you and I might interpret the constitution, will have the full backing of the bills that I don't have time to dig up. And as you already pointed out, the military is not ''allowed" to have scruples. Spend some time watching some video on what the military did in Katerina and you will see a NOT so benign picture of what they can and would do to US citizens.

IMO, this is all very much orchestrated.... with TPTB the beneficiaries and most of us just pawns in a huge political and financial game.

Here is one of them, I think there are two. Google another site for the bill if you don't like this one. I just grabbed the first one. Welcome 1984.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=3618
The oath of office that I took when I became an active duty military member is as follows:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I swore to defend the Constitution, not any bill passed by any legislature in our history. The Uniform Code of Military Justice makes it quite clear that following an illegal order is against the law, which is why the Abu Ghraib soldiers could be tried. It is the responsibility of every soldier, sailor, and airman to interpret the orders given to him for legality according to the Constitution. Although the bill(s) you reference may bestow power on the military, if any order given by anyone, including the the President, is in violation of the Constitution, then the order is illegal, and any military member who follows it is breaking the law. Period.

I was in New Orleans for Katrina as a civilian. You are correct, military members confiscated weapons from private citizens in their homes, and that was illegal. There was a state law on the books that provided for the confiscation, but that law was illegal in that it violated the second amendment to the Constitution. Those military members acted in violation of the Constitution.

I am not saying it won't be similar if forced mandatory vaccinations comes to fruition. What I am saying is that there is at least one military member who won't be following those orders, because they are not Constitutional.
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#84 of 342 Old 07-31-2009, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi again everyone... I did a separate post for this but it was closed due to too many swine flu vaccine threads. lol So Ill post it here...

I was just watching the national news and they were talking about the swine flu vaccine. They did have a mother on there who said she would not be giving it to her kids because shes not sure about the safety of it, so I was glad to see that.. but of course then they have the doctors saying oh its safe and just like a regular flu vaccine. They mentioned using adjuvants and saying that squalene has been safely used in other countries... of course I dont believe any of that... But, one thing that was interesting was the secretary of health was saying that they do not plan on using any adjuvants like squalene unless it was really necessary with the virus mutating or becoming more dangerous... I have read that 2 vaccine companies have already put squalene in their vaccines. Does anyone believe that these vaccines will not be used? I really hope this is true but I just dont know.. I know my son isnt going to get this vaccine (I will have to make sure of this since he is in school) but my husband is in the military and I know they are going to want him to get it.. So I am worried about his safety. I do not want him to receive a vaccine containing squalene..

Anyway, I appreciate any info if you all have any!

Jen
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#85 of 342 Old 07-31-2009, 05:10 AM
 
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This is sort of OT but I don't want to start another thread that could be closed down.

Would it do any good to write to government officials stating that we would resist mandatory vaccination because of religious beliefs which is covered by an Amendment? Or, yknow, just anything to show that there will be opposition and people are closely following this matter.

I haven't seen a thread on this yet, but if there is one, point me to it please.
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#86 of 342 Old 07-31-2009, 06:02 AM
 
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Do you mean 1976?

I wasn't aware of a vax in 1918.
Right. I did mean 1976 of course. But there were vaccines given to the militay members in 1918 and those are the ones that died.


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Or, yknow, just anything to show that there will be opposition and people are closely following this matter.

I haven't seen a thread on this yet, but if there is one, point me to it please.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...97&postcount=9
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#87 of 342 Old 07-31-2009, 12:19 PM
 
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I swore to defend the Constitution, not any bill passed by any legislature in our history. The Uniform Code of Military Justice makes it quite clear that following an illegal order is against the law, which is why the Abu Ghraib soldiers could be tried. ...

I was in New Orleans for Katrina as a civilian. You are correct, military members confiscated weapons from private citizens in their homes, and that was illegal. There was a state law on the books that provided for the confiscation, but that law was illegal in that it violated the second amendment to the Constitution. Those military members acted in violation of the Constitution.
But you are only confirming my point. The acts in Abu Ghraib were done REGARDLESS of their illegality. The acts of the military in Katrina were carried out EVEN though it was against the second Amendment. And what has happened to any of them?! We can't even have the guts to define torture as it would implicate this country horribly even though we all know the truth. And what is happening there? To Cheney? Who is prosecuting the military?!

So while any acts with the military on the streets around a swine flu 'event' (to bring this back to the topic) might be illegal but the soldiers WILL follow orders. Very few will balk. As you say, just look at Katrina.
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#88 of 342 Old 07-31-2009, 01:01 PM
 
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Hi again everyone... I did a separate post for this but it was closed due to too many swine flu vaccine threads. lol So Ill post it here...

I was just watching the national news and they were talking about the swine flu vaccine. They did have a mother on there who said she would not be giving it to her kids because shes not sure about the safety of it, so I was glad to see that.. but of course then they have the doctors saying oh its safe and just like a regular flu vaccine. They mentioned using adjuvants and saying that squalene has been safely used in other countries... of course I dont believe any of that... But, one thing that was interesting was the secretary of health was saying that they do not plan on using any adjuvants like squalene unless it was really necessary with the virus mutating or becoming more dangerous... I have read that 2 vaccine companies have already put squalene in their vaccines. Does anyone believe that these vaccines will not be used? I really hope this is true but I just dont know.. I know my son isnt going to get this vaccine (I will have to make sure of this since he is in school) but my husband is in the military and I know they are going to want him to get it.. So I am worried about his safety. I do not want him to receive a vaccine containing squalene..

Anyway, I appreciate any info if you all have any!

Jen
There are 5 companies that are currently manufactering a swine flu vax for the USA.
1) GSK (has squalene adjuvant)
2) Novartis (has squalene adjuvant)
3) Medimmune (nasal mist vax)
4) Sonafi Pasteur (no adjuvant)
5) CSL (Australian company, no adjuvant)

The clinical trais are underway for only 2. They are for Sonafi's and CSL's products. (both of which do NOT contain squalene which is not licensed for use in this country). So lets say even though these are the 2 that are being "tested" (if you can even call looking for reactions for 3-5 weeks before declaring a vaccine "safe" as testing). They will produce all 5 and say they are all safe.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#89 of 342 Old 07-31-2009, 01:31 PM
 
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But you are only confirming my point. The acts in Abu Ghraib were done REGARDLESS of their illegality. The acts of the military in Katrina were carried out EVEN though it was against the second Amendment. And what has happened to any of them?! We can't even have the guts to define torture as it would implicate this country horribly even though we all know the truth. And what is happening there? To Cheney? Who is prosecuting the military?!

So while any acts with the military on the streets around a swine flu 'event' (to bring this back to the topic) might be illegal but the soldiers WILL follow orders. Very few will balk. As you say, just look at Katrina.
The low-ranking soldiers at Abu Ghraib were convicted and are serving time. The high-ranking soldiers somehow weren't punished. I haven't heard anything about the national guardsmen being tried for Katrina, but there was an (illegal) state law on the books authorizing their actions. Multiple lawsuits were filed for the weapon confiscations though.

Just to clarify, the Army, Air Force, Marines, and Navy are all federally mandated troops. The National Guard and the Coast Guard are state-controlled and are not governed by the provisions of the Posse Comitatus act, eroded as it may be. The exception to this is if the NG and CG are federalized in support of a Presidential order.

I am not arguing your point, just pointing out the way things should be, according to the laws governing our standing military. And my original point was to direct your (collective) anger at the appropriate level. An individual military member is not appropriate.
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#90 of 342 Old 07-31-2009, 01:52 PM
 
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There are 5 companies that are currently manufactering a swine flu vax for the USA.
1) GSK (has squalene adjuvant)
2) Novartis (has squalene adjuvant)
3) Medimmune (nasal mist vax)
4) Sonafi Pasteur (no adjuvant)
5) CSL (Australian company, no adjuvant)

The clinical trais are underway for only 2. They are for Sonafi's and CSL's products. (both of which do NOT contain squalene which is not licensed for use in this country). So lets say even though these are the 2 that are being "tested" (if you can even call looking for reactions for 3-5 weeks before declaring a vaccine "safe" as testing). They will produce all 5 and say they are all safe.
uh... no adjuvant? : Not even aluminum?

Jenna ~ mommy to Sophia Elise idea.gif  (1/06), Oliver Matthew  blahblah.gif (7/07) and Avery Michael fly-by-nursing1.gif(3/10)

 

dizzy.gif Wading slowly and nervously into this homeschooling thing.

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