Freaking out about swine flu vaccine, can anyone make me feel better? - Mothering Forums

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Old 07-15-2009, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi all. Well I know this forum has a ton of posts about the swine flu vaccine, but I am just really starting to freak out about this. I feel like within a couple of months, everything could just be chaos, with talk about quarantines, mass vaccinations and not having the right to refuse them, and also that they are planning on starting these vaccinations at school. I am worried my son will not be able to go to school anymore. I am very much against vaccines in general since I believe they played a pretty big part in his autism, and now I have to deal with this! This is just so scary to me and every time I think about it, I just start freaking out. Does anyone think maybe they will decide not to put out this vaccine and/or not make it mandatory? Maybe they will decide the risks outweigh the benefits? I just dont know that that will happen though because the drug/vaccines companies have such a monopoly over everything and everyone and of course dont give a crap about any serious side effects of their vaccines... Anyway, just wanted to hear all of your thoughts and views on this and what you are doing to prepare (how you will avoid the vaccine!) Is there somewhere to move to avoid this or are they vaccinating everywhere? I would seriously move if it came down to mass vaccinations. Thanks everyone for listening!

Jennifer
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:42 AM
 
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Mass vaccinations and mandatory vaccinations are two different things. I am not afraid of *mass* vaccination. It's happening every day. They test their potential response to an outbreak every year in my county with drive-through flu shot clinics. Mandatory is an entirely different animal.
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Old 07-15-2009, 01:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Mandatory is what Im worried about...
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:08 AM
 
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I am not worried about mandatory per se. I have fleeting images of road blocks, documentation or health passports to pass and all... too many movies maybe! But I think most people will be lining up for this shot. They already have an incredible logistics problem (getting it and distributing it) in dealing with vaccinating those who will want it voluntarily that I do not think they will have any way to show for a long time that you have 'refused'. They could not prove that until they get around to everyone. It would not be possible initially to strong arm parents into getting the vax or not allowing kits to return to school because of the lag in getting the vaccine and distributing it. Too many kids would be kept out of school until supply and distribution caught up. And although they are looking at using schools to distribute them, I am not sure this means AT school as much as using their facilities, ie, the gym. But who knows.... I would like to see alot more detail on their actual plans.

Here is a recent article.... it takes care to say it will not be mandatory. But again... who knows, yk?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1247...googlenews_wsj
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Old 07-15-2009, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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thanks newmama. I will check out the article. I am really hoping it wont be mandatory.. Actually Im hoping that they will see that swine flu is not really more dangerous than the regular flu and just not release the vaccine at all!
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Old 07-15-2009, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Glad to read this at least...That it should be voluntary...

The U.S. -- which has had 211 deaths from swine flu and 37,246 confirmed cases, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention -- is also making plans for a voluntary vaccination program.


By the way, is the vaccine going to be a flu mist and contain the live viruses?? Or will they use the dead virus in a shot? I really am hoping that they will not use the live virus because I think it will spread swine flu much more....
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Old 07-15-2009, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Old 07-15-2009, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:27 PM
 
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thanks newmama. I will check out the article. I am really hoping it wont be mandatory.. Actually Im hoping that they will see that swine flu is not really more dangerous than the regular flu and just not release the vaccine at all!
Of course the vaccine will be released. The Obama administration has pumped billions of dollars into the creation of this vaccine. They CAN'T not release it.
I think it will come out, many will get it voluntarily, many will get sick from it, some will die, but unlike 1976, people harmed by the vaccine will have no recourse and any adverse effects and deaths will be blamed on something else or denied just like they are with other vaccines now.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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Old 07-15-2009, 12:43 PM
 
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There is nothing to scare about. Vaccines' purpose intend to prevent the possible replication of the virus in case your kid might have a contact with persons who had swine flu. Nothing to scare. All you have to do is to make your child be supplemented with a lot of vitamin c to promote a good stamina and good fight against any sickness...
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:38 PM
 
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I too will say I've tried to keep my mind off of fall and chaos that I know will ensue. I'm more worried about my child not being able to go to school or beind ostrasized (sp) because we didnt get the shot. Our school already has a "flu shot day" in October that they use to get that vax out. I think the turn out is usually about 1/3 of the school/parents etc. My main concern is that this particular vaccine will have a "get it or can't be in school" no vax exemption thing attached to it. I really worry they won't have that many people against it. I am however happy to see the 1976 issue in the mainstream media, although at the end of every single article I read but at least it's there. I think if people really knew the effects of GBS and other side effects, like visiting support groups on the internet and listened to some stories they might be more apt to give pause about this vaccine. I am also hoping that the population they are aiming the vax at might remember the 1976 issue.

It also upsets me because after years of not vaxxing my dc, we have decided to selectively start a few we feel are important now and in the future for them...It was an extremely hard decision to come to that took years but the road we are taking I think my dh and I feel as comfortable as we can with. So we thought all our thinking was done, we are falling somewhere on the line between no vaxes and total vaxing and finally, FINALLY, being at peace with it. Then this. I mean really.

What if I decide not to vax, which we probably will, then the strain turns more virulent like they are trying to drill into our brains, then I set my dc up for a scary scenario. But putting an untested jab into my kids is just not somthing I can see happening. I just could never do it. But I know most the people arround us will. What if they can't go to school.....I don't know what this will turn into. I'm hoping that even though Obama spent millions on it, I can't see them forcing vaccination.

all that to say, I'm feeling like you. Worried about the fall, more about the chaos the life changing things that might happen even more so than about the flu itself. I just don't think most people understand what kind of media coverage, frenzy etc this will cause. Our only hope is to wait for all those people who will be lining up for this to get the jab and see what reactions they have. My sense is with little or no safety trials some bad stuff will unfortunately happen and they will pull it again. That's just what I feel. I worry our opposition to it won't be strong enough...anyways. So many feelings I can't describe.
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:12 PM
 
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Glad to read this at least...That it should be voluntary...

The U.S. -- which has had 211 deaths from swine flu and 37,246 confirmed cases, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention -- is also making plans for a voluntary vaccination program.


By the way, is the vaccine going to be a flu mist and contain the live viruses?? Or will they use the dead virus in a shot? I really am hoping that they will not use the live virus because I think it will spread swine flu much more....
That is a .005% death rate. I bet catching the swine flu is safer than flying in a plane.
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Old 07-15-2009, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That is a .005% death rate. I bet catching the swine flu is safer than flying in a plane.
I totally agree with this!!!

Anyway, I already know that the people who first get this vaccine are probably going to get sick with who knows what and then hopefully they will pull it from the market. Its sad that it has to happen this way but I guess thats just how its going to be..

As for school, I am worried that my son wont be able to go either.. But I guess if I have to choose between him getting the vaccine and getting to go to school or being at home, my son is going to have to be at home I just hope it wont come down to that!
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Old 07-15-2009, 07:34 PM
 
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If enough people refuse the vaccine (which we certainly will and I know LOTS of other people who definitely will also), there is nothing anyone can do. It is our right to refuse. We just have to know our right and defend it.

There is NO WAY anyone is going to inject ANYTHING into me, my children and grandchildren.

When it comes down to forced vaccines, I believe they are going to have a battle on their hands. People are going to refuse on many grounds, not merely being anti-vax.
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Old 07-15-2009, 07:37 PM
 
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This could be the vaccine that will totally destroy any believe in the vaccine program. Gardasil has been a good start!


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Old 07-15-2009, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This could be the vaccine that will totally destroy any believe in the vaccine program. Gardasil has been a good start!



That would be something positive to come out of this whole mess!
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Old 07-16-2009, 07:36 AM
 
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Does anyone think maybe they will decide not to put out this vaccine and/or not make it mandatory?

Jennifer
Oh, its going to come out alright, and making it mandatory is a real possibility. That doesn't mean you have to roll up your sleeve. Resist, fight and protest with all you have. This country was founded by heros willing to fight and die for what they believed in. If something seems wrong to you, DON'T DO IT!

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2008-2009 - The USA government has spent over a billion dollars for a swine flu vaccination, and Obama has hinted that they may be required in the fall. 77 million dollars has been spent on mapping every household and who is in it for possible FEMA and Homeland Security vaccination enforcement.
http://www.naturalnews.com/026598_va...lu_health.html

I just read the latest reports of how the program is going to be all "voluntary" come fall - that was pretty smart on their part. After all, one cannot vaccinate the ENTIRE population all at once anyway! Mind as well get all the "volunteers" first then roll out the mandatory plans after a few months to get everyone else.

Everything won't happen all at once so it won't be "chaos" but it will happen in steps. Don't be fooled. I don't trust them and I am as freaked out by this as you are. I am sure they will wait and see what happens with the voluntary response before deciding whether or not to implement their mandatory plans. I have 2 frames of thought on this, and I'm not sure which is right.. If they get a huge # of volunteers, perhaps they won't worry about the small # of people left worth making an effort to enforce the "mandated" laws over. They may simply consider it a success at that point.

On the other hand, it may be pretty easy to get everyone else at that point, after all, the ones who already had their shots aren't going to be standing up in protest for the non-vaxers! And what if they don't get "enough" volunteers? I am quite sure they will try to enforce the laws about mandatory vaccines, because all those millions and billions of vaccines have to go somewhere! One of 2 things will happen. Either we will win, or they will. If enough people stand up for their rights to choose their own medicine and resist this crazy police medical state, we win. If they throw in the towel and listen to the government, taking all their shots because government knows whats best for us, Big Pharma wins again.

Like Gitti I have some hope that some of the people will smarten up and this will make them realize how much we have been brainwashed in the past. Pharma may lose more customers over this in the longrun. I don't count on hope alone saving me though> I think we should prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:08 AM
 
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this is just too scary for words..... I just cannot believe this. I had no idea he hinted at making it required. Where did you find that?
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Old 07-16-2009, 01:52 PM
 
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Like Gitti I have some hope that some of the people will smarten up and this will make them realize how much we have been brainwashed in the past.

I think we should prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.
We have to collectively change the future. We have to KNOW that there is no way they are going to force us to inject anything. We have to constantly reiterate that and change this fear into positive energy.

They do see what people say on these forums. If they read often enough that people are going to refuse the vaccine, they will not even try to enforce it. But if they see that folks are just plain scared and will simply consent, then there it a good change that they'll make it mandatory.

It is up to us to change our future.

Hitler once said to his troops: If you get to Poland and you meet opposition, turn around.
There was no oppostition...and the rest is history (distorted, I am sure!).
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Old 07-16-2009, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree with you newmum and gitti! I hope that people will stand up and fight for their right not to be vaccinated and not just follow along with whatever the government wants them to do! I wonder if most people are aware of the swine flu vaccine made in 1976 and people develping Guillian Barre syndrome and who knows what other kinds of side effects. I think if people just educate themselves and know the real stories then we should be ok! But who knows if they will or not...
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Old 07-18-2009, 12:37 AM
 
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I really hope that if things go to hell in a handbasket this is when the celebrities will step up and we can back them. There are quite a few very well known that do not vax and I cannot imagine them not fighting tooth and nail.

I agree the whole thing is scary ...

Legal immunity set for swine flu vaccine makers
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090718/..._med_swine_flu
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Old 07-18-2009, 02:53 AM
 
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Most of the reports I've read/heard seem to indicate that they will not have *enough* of the vaccine so I have serious doubts they'd be able to make it mandatory. If it's similar in production to the usual influenza vaccine that would mean you couldn't have it if you had an egg allergy...one could always develop an allergy to eggs...
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Most of the reports I've read/heard seem
to indicate that they will not have *enough* of the vaccine so I have serious doubts they'd be able to make it mandatory. If it's similar in production to the usual influenza vaccine that would mean you couldn't have it if you had an egg allergy...one could always develop an allergy to eggs...


Good idea about the egg allergy! lol
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:08 PM
 
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I think if they make it mandatory for anybody other than school children there will be uprising in the streets.

There are lots of people out there who may have never given vaccines a second thought, may not have children of their own, but have an extreme distrust of government. They are not going to take too kindly to "Hi, I am from the government and I am here to inject this into you."

All of the anarchists, the conspiracy theorists, the backwoods militias will completely freak out.

For some reason there are a lot of people who are ok with kids being forced to be vaccinated, but don't want anybody forcing a vaccine on themselves.

I am not too concerned because I live in Alberta, we currently have zero vaccine requirements for school, and forced vaccination is considered to be unconstitutional. And my kid is only one, so school attendance isn't an issue. I fear for the health of all of the people who are going to eagerly roll up their sleeves, but I highly doubt we will get into a mandatory situation here.

Anybody want to come and rent out my basement?

Wife to DH (06/10) and Mummy to DD (07/08).

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Old 07-22-2009, 02:09 PM
 
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I'm in Alberta too but I have 1 LO in school so I am a bit worried. Every fall they have a health unit come out to the school to give out vaxes flu and boosters, this year probably SF too. We are a rural community so it's not just for the school. They send home forms for permission to vax first but I am worried they would make a mistake. So this year I am keeping him home on vax day. I forgot last year but they didn't make a mistake. He also knows that no one is allowed to give him a needle of any type no matter who it is unless we are there with him.

I am a bit worried he will miss a lot of school if there is an outbreak in the school. Though I am not sure if AB has the rules about unvaxed kids not being allowed in school during outbreaks.

Apparently Canada is one of the few countries with the capacity to produce enough of the vaccine for it's population. But what most likely will happen is that the extra will go to the US.

Wife to DH, Mom to my Intact Boys DS1: Born 02 Pain Med Free Hospital Birth, BF'ed for 9 Months, Partially Vax'd DS2: Born 06 via UC, BF'ed 3 years 10 months, and UnVax'd
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:15 PM
 
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That is a .005% death rate. I bet catching the swine flu is safer than flying in a plane.
No, it's not. It's a 0.56% death rate, not 0.005%.

According to this website: http://www.livescience.com/environme..._of_dying.html

your chance of dying in an air travel accident is 1 in 20,000 or 0.005%. So you are 100x more likely to die of the swine flu (if you contract it) than you are to die in an air travel accident (if you decide to go on an airplane).

The 1918 flu had a roughly 1.5% death rate.

If a significant proportion of the population contracts the flu and a portion of those people need hospitalization, respirators, ICU, etc. there will be insufficient resources for them and the death rate will rise.

Are we at freakout level risk of dying from swine flu? No, of course not. But an attempt should be made to state the facts accurately. The death rate in the U.S. (and it's pretty much the same worldwide) is approximately 0.5% based on current reported numbers.

Of course, there can be inaccuracies in the reported numbers, but it's what we've got to work with.

I'm not planning to get the vaccine or get it for my family, but I'd still like to be somewhat realistic about the risks of the flu.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:27 PM
 
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How can those numbers be anywhere near accurate? The flu is so mild in most cases that it's no different than a mild cold. Some people are not even seeking treatment and don't even realize it's SF and not just a cold. How can they even guess at the real number of cases when so many go unreported.

Wife to DH, Mom to my Intact Boys DS1: Born 02 Pain Med Free Hospital Birth, BF'ed for 9 Months, Partially Vax'd DS2: Born 06 via UC, BF'ed 3 years 10 months, and UnVax'd
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:32 PM
 
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How can those numbers be anywhere near accurate? The flu is so mild in most cases that it's no different than a mild cold. Some people are not even seeking treatment and don't even realize it's SF and not just a cold. How can they even guess at the real number of cases when so many go unreported.
They can't. That's why they're not reporting a death rate, just the raw data that they have.

I should also add that the statistic I posted above for the risk of dying in an air travel accident was the lifetime risk. The risk on any individual flight would be much lower.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:41 PM
 
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The death rate in the U.S. (and it's pretty much the same worldwide) is approximately 0.5% based on current reported numbers.

Please don't scare yourself (and others) by jumping to a .5% death rate conclusion based on the 'reported cases' numbers. No one can possibly guess at how many have come in contact with the swine flu and recovered without incidence.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:59 AM
 
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That is a .005% death rate. I bet catching the swine flu is safer than flying in a plane.
I wonder how many of that .05% were already sick with something else, immune compromised, or otherwise unhealthy (poor weight, bad nutrition, unsanitary living conditions, etc) When they throw the death rate out there I always want to know, WHICH people. Even if it WAS .05% ALL healthy people I wouldn't be interested in the vaccine, but I have a feeling that .05% wasn't a majority of people in their best possible health to begin with.
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