Can Vaccinated People Carry Polio? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 48 Old 08-29-2009, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am just trying like heck to find research on this. Can those who are vaccinated against Polio become carriers? The reason I am asking is because while we live in the US, my mothers live in northern India where Polio is still prevalent. They have their vaccinations against it, but I can't find any information on whether or not they could be carriers. My daughter is unvaccinated and I would prefer her to stay that way if my parents don't pose a risk to her. Thoughts? Research? Thanks.
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#2 of 48 Old 08-30-2009, 01:06 AM
 
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from what i have read, the vaccine campaign in india used the live oral vaccine... and that is what caused the worst of the polio outbreaks... because polio is passed on through feces mainly... and in places with sanitation issues this caused the spread of polio... they increased the amount of infection by mass use of live vaccine. of course they will deny much of it.. as vaccine believers do .. because who likes to admit when they are wrong.. especially with something like vaccination...

a live vaccine sheds.. and if they had recently gotten the vaccine they can shed it.. in africa they are having problems with a vaccine resistant strain of polio...


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090814/..._polio_nigeria

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract

i have no respect for vaccines whatsoever, they are bad.. and will never be the livessaving miracle they want you to believe they are... they are profit makers.. that is all.. they destroy lives for profit
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#3 of 48 Old 08-30-2009, 02:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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But is it possible, after vaccination, to be exposed and become a carrier of the vaccine? My parents are vaccinated. My daughter is not. My worry is them getting exposed in India and bringing it back here. IF the vaccine works and they are able to fight it off, would they still be carriers?
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#4 of 48 Old 08-30-2009, 02:24 AM
 
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i'm not sure but it would seem reasonable to me. i think the question would be to ask them if they've had any contact with anyone that was sick or if they've felt sick within the last month (i think it's one month that it sheds).

you may want to ask your doctor about it. is your ped selective vax friendly?

eh. who needs a signature?
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#5 of 48 Old 08-30-2009, 06:15 AM
 
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I dont' know if the current polio vax has changed in the recent years. But it's a well known fact that the only cases of Polio in the US in the last 30 years came from vaccine.
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#6 of 48 Old 08-30-2009, 08:37 AM
 
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The oral polio vaccine prevents transmission of polio, which is why it is preferred in areas that still have wild polio.

Shedding of the virus would not occur at your mother's age, as I assume she received the vaccine many years ago.

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#7 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 12:45 AM
 
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The oral live polio virus is associated with all of the cases in North America since 1979.

Money Magazine, December 1996, discussed the case of Lenita Shaffer who got polio in 1986 from her daughter's diaper - she has been in a wheelchair since - I am sure she was vaccinated as a child. Also the former Lieutenant Governer of Virginia and Father-in-law of Jenna Bush has been in a wheel chair since 1973 because he got polio from his son's diaper, and I am sure he was vaccinated as a child also.
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#8 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 03:15 PM
 
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Considering that before the vaccine.. most people who got polio suffered a mild case of polio (it was no more noticable than the common cold and many people have had it and not realized they had polio).. less than 1% of those people suffered any paralytic effects and most of them recovered from that.. so fewer even suffered permanent damage as a result... and usually we see that in any of these diseases people who suffer most usually have underlying conditions that leave them vunerable to diseases like this... I would not worry too much about contracting polio unless there are sanitation issues or newly vaccinated or sick people you will be sharing or exposed to bodily fluids.... i would not let it ruin my vacation.. just be cautious... most of the fear is from 'hype' to make you fear everything and submit to mandatory medicine.. you are very unlikely to get or knowingly be exposed polio
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#9 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 03:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
The oral polio vaccine prevents transmission of polio, which is why it is preferred in areas that still have wild polio.

Shedding of the virus would not occur at your mother's age, as I assume she received the vaccine many years ago.
NOT TRUE

those areas where there are outbreaks including the ones in north america are the same strain in the oral polio vaccine...

live oral polio is contagious.. spread through feces.... not through air or coughing..but through bodily fluids... from the 'Live vaccine" and there are people know to shed for a long time because the virus can live in the guts.. some people can be contagious longer than others and if you bothered to read the legitimate link i listed above you will see that...

depending on the sanitation of the area this woman is in if there is sewage running through the gutters of the streets and the population is recieving live oral polio .. you can get it... 'sanitation" ... this is why it spread in the streets of NYC and other cities during the 'polio vaccine' campaigns because they used the live oral polio and caused pandemics because early last century there was not the plumbing in our cities we have now.. the feces would run down the gutters of the streets.. children play in the city streets... etcetc there were public pools that did not use the disinfectant chorine or filters that public pools now utilize and that is another source that could spread this type of virus if not properly maintained.. people excrement in pools.. kids mostly.... in india the sanitation is not as modern in some parts and leave people exposed... is why you don't want human feces in river and water sources where people commonly bath

not only that but the live oral polio was given many many doses in india because it does not offer good immunity to polio... people were showing a weak immune responses and they campaign for more and more doses.. because the vaccine in fact works POORLY.. some people in india have been given nearly 10 doses of oral polio... a failure of a vaccine, that infacts infects more people with not only polio but other animal viruses as well .. infecting more people than it protects!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#10 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 03:24 PM
 
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Shedding of the vaccine virus and prevention of transmission through mucosal immunity are different things.

A person who receives the oral polio vaccine may shed the virus for a number of days to weeks in their stools. However, this shedding stops.

Prevention of transmission means that a person who receives the oral polio vaccine and then comes in contact with polio will not carry polio and pass it on.

You can read more about this here:

Quote:
Like the injectable inactivated polio vaccine (IPV), OPV produces antibodies in the blood that will protect against myelitis by preventing the spread of poliovirus to the nervous system. But, superior to IPV, OPV also produces a local SIgA immune response in the intestinal mucosa—the primary site for poliovirus entry and multiplication. This intestinal immune response can rapidly stop person-to-person transmission of wild poliovirus, making mass campaigns with OPV a powerful strategy for the global eradication of polio.
http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v11...ll/nm1213.html

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#11 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 03:26 PM
 
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Also, be aware that some parts of India have already switched over the IPV. You should inquire about the vaccination practices in her area if you are worried about coming in contact with a recently OPV vaccinated individual.

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#12 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 03:34 PM
 
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If you were to vax your child for polio in the US they would use IPV (inactivated/killed polio) which doesn't prevent transmission. Many parts of India use OVP (live virus) which can prevent transmission but also sheds.
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#13 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 03:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ZoeyZoo View Post
If you were to vax your child for polio in the US they would use IPV (inactivated/killed polio) which doesn't prevent transmission. Many parts of India use OVP (live virus) which can prevent transmission but also sheds.
if it sheds, it doesn't prevent transmission... because it's not an airborne virus for one and if it's shedding it can be spread through feces.. no prevention there especially since the oral polio hasn't done much in india to stop the spread of polio.. it actually increased the spread of polio.. because many cases of polio were the vaccine strain.. the oral polio vaccine does not produce 100 % immunity.. it's much lower.. that is why they keep trying to give it to them.. and causing more virus in the pop. that people shed.. india has a sanitiation crisis in many places.. oral polio in india is more of an experiment because they are still using it after 10 doses to the point where neighbor yell out a warning for people to lock thier doors because of the teams that are coming in trying to revaccinate.. it has become more of an experiment than anything else.. it's not working well and if after 10 doses you are still having a problem with the effectiveness of a vaccine i would consider this a FAILURE
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#14 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 03:44 PM
 
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You are just wrong, I am not sure how else to state this. The poster's mother was certainly not vaccinated with OPV within the last few months, so she will not shed. your so-called 'transmission through shedding' would not be an issue in someone who has not recently gotten the OPV.

On the other hand, the vaccine DOES prevent polio from multiplying in a vaccinated individual and then continuing on to another-- ie, transmission of polio.

The reason countries don't switch over to IPV until much later in the eradication process is because IPV cannot prevent transmission in the way that OPV can.

We also have quite a bit of evidence of how the OPV has helped India and how, when vaccination rates drop, that is when the outbreaks get worse. Not sure it would be helpful to try and argue that here though, but- OP- if you want it, I can provide.

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#15 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 03:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
Shedding of the vaccine virus and prevention of transmission through mucosal immunity are different things.

A person who receives the oral polio vaccine may shed the virus for a number of days to weeks in their stools. However, this shedding stops.

Prevention of transmission means that a person who receives the oral polio vaccine and then comes in contact with polio will not carry polio and pass it on.

You can read more about this here:



http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v11...ll/nm1213.html
it's too bad the opv has crippled more people than the wild polio....this is a money oriented freak show that uses people who are ignorant to vaccine science and the experiments that many populations have been used for ... i believe that eventually just like you see with any over vaccinated pop. you will see a strain of polio that will make the one they have vaccinated for in the past look like an amusement park ride.... the fact that they are soo over the top vaccinated sets the stage for another mod med disaster.. polio was never so prevelant in the pop. before the OVP.. and even with the killed virus.. you still have strains that are surviving in the gut for longer periods of time and shedding .. you will see a mutation.. this is part of life and the so called artificial immunity will again prove worthless and toxic when all these injections and thier adjuvants have done thier damage and become worthless to the next generation who in some would have had the ability to adapt to thier environment with natural immunity...

vaccines should never be used to carelessly inject an entire population eliminating natural adaptions ... it is reckless and careless for them to be used in this fashion, but obscenely profitable... unless there are no other alternatives therapies like this should never be used on mass pops because there is always unforseen, untold consequence... especially since every single vaccine does damage to the body in some form or another... and never are they 100% safe or effective!!!!! artificial immunity never lasts.. and is not the answer to disease.. you cannot wipe out disease with an injection.. goes against all common logic.. they would have been better off with modern sanitation than a vaccine but they had a poor and unknowing pop to experiment on.. so instead of the healthier option... the more profitable choice was to vaccinate everyone wrecklessly.. because even though someone say free.. someone somewhere pays for these campaigns.. either us by offsetting costs or some other forgein aid program from a rich country that exploits thier taxpayers
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#16 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 03:57 PM
 
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it's too bad the opv has crippled more people than the wild polio....this is a money oriented freak show that uses people who are ignorant to vaccine science and the experiments that many populations have been used for .
can you show some proof for that statement?

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#17 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 04:03 PM
 
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You are just wrong, I am not sure how else to state this. The poster's mother was certainly not vaccinated with OPV within the last few months, so she will not shed. your so-called 'transmission through shedding' would not be an issue in someone who has not recently gotten the OPV.

On the other hand, the vaccine DOES prevent polio from multiplying in a vaccinated individual and then continuing on to another-- ie, transmission of polio.

The reason countries don't switch over to IPV until much later in the eradication process is because IPV cannot prevent transmission in the way that OPV can.

We also have quite a bit of evidence of how the OPV has helped India and how, when vaccination rates drop, that is when the outbreaks get worse. Not sure it would be helpful to try and argue that here though, but- OP- if you want it, I can provide.
first of all i was not implying the posters mother was vaccinated with OPV... but depending on the area she is in there may be a highly vaccinated population there.. and i have read countless articles and research that has shown evidence that the OPV campaign has actually increased the spread because the rates of infection spiked since those campaign began... but you can also attribute the fact that you are destroying the pop. ability to natural immunity and also depressing the immune system with a battery of vaccinations.. that will actually leave a person susceptable for a time following vaccination...OPV has been know to cause transmission... because it was a live virus.. that is why it was stopped and most cases of polio have been from the strain found in the OPV.. that has been documented in several places
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#18 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 04:06 PM
 
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OK, if it is documented in many places, can you show me a document showing that most polio in India is OPV related? more than 50% of cases each year? I guess that would constitute most?


(on the other hand, everything I have read clearly shows that VDPV cases are no where near as high as the wild cases: http://www.npspindia.org/bulletin.pdf)

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#19 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 04:10 PM
 
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can you show some proof for that statement?
i can, i have resources and references to that but i have to look it up to post.. and i will come back with it.. i cannot stay here all day doing this but i'm not the only person who is aware of this.. much research that does not promote compliance with this mandatory nightmare is not publicized by mainstream because if the truth be known the vaccine campaign would not the the monster it is now.. much of those links were lost on another comp so i will have to go digging for them..
But regardless there is no justification for what the polio vaccine campagne has done in india.. there is no justification for having mass pops submitting to mass injection through the course of a lifetime.. for most .. the truth of the matter is that polio is not deadly... it had spread through the pop for some time before the vaccine and was a mild disease to more than 99% of the people who contracted or carried it.... another case of screwing up 99% of a pop because of a few people who have underlying issues and are susceptable to it being dangerous

bbl
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OK, if it is documented in many places, can you show me a document showing that most polio in India is OPV related? more than 50% of cases each year? I guess that would constitute most?


(on the other hand, everything I have read clearly shows that VDPV cases are no where near as high as the wild cases: http://www.npspindia.org/bulletin.pdf)
your sources are probably funded by or associated with the pharmecutical companies that profit off of vaccine campaigns... or as much as in this country governmental officers that have ties to the industry.. is why real research on vaccines often get criminalized or criticised by anyone suggesting the other wise truth because the pharmaceutical industry is a self regulated nightmare riddled with conflict of interest, especially when the ceos of these companies keep government positions like revolving doors to achieve thier agenda... so real research never gets fair play and masses of people are manipulated and coerced into this campaign for medical compliance.

no matter what your research states.. the fact remains that vaccines are dangerous and the negative outcomes are mounting... i feel bad for the people who were coerced into complying with opv with several doses... it's an abuse of pharmaceutical and government GREED... i'm sure in india just as it is here.. politicians are rewarded for making these atrocities possible
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#21 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 04:23 PM
 
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...ok...

so, any source that contradicts your (unsourced) claims is just wrong for any variety of reasons.

So essentially: debate over.

Hope some of this at least helped you in your thoughts, Surromommy. let me know if want to see anything else on this. Before my husband switched jobs, we had planned to travel with him to Bangalore and some other areas of India. I did a lot of looking into the different vaccines out there and the situation overseas. I still have a lot of that stuff here.

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#22 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 04:29 PM
 
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IPV, yes, they can.

OPV, no, provided they got the whole series and it "took". After just one or two doses, they can, and while the live vaccine is in their bodies, theoretically they can pass it on. However, this is not a problem when babies get the OPV, if mom washes her hands and takes proper precautions.

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
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#23 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 05:31 PM
 
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...ok...

so, any source that contradicts your (unsourced) claims is just wrong for any variety of reasons.

So essentially: debate over.

Hope some of this at least helped you in your thoughts, Surromommy. let me know if want to see anything else on this. Before my husband switched jobs, we had planned to travel with him to Bangalore and some other areas of India. I did a lot of looking into the different vaccines out there and the situation overseas. I still have a lot of that stuff here.
??? what??? because i can't stay online.. and give you sources... whatever...

here's a few and i will be getting to more later.. some links have already been conviently moved... the problem with research.. links move around and cannot always be found without a search.. you hate to be wrong.. but that's you not me.. debate NOT OVER

http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.c...minnesota.html

http://www.*********/vaccine/to_dr_anbumani.html

http://www.hpathy.com/papersnew/chat...m-vaccines.asp

http://www.indg.in/health/discussion...ns-for-failure

http://content.usatoday.net/dist/cus...35947156.story

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main33....ed_vaccine.asp

This is just a few articles and whatnot i could dig up on the fly... there is more.. i have to reestablish alot of link.. my other comp crashed... so no not over ... however immunity is not the issue i have with this vaccine it's the spread of the virus and the fact that viruses can mutate.. when the pop needs over 10 doses there is something wrong..
in america it's frought with conflicts and too many people get injured in these campagnes when they otherwise would not... even though a polio vaccine does have some effect.. later on down the road there will be a price to pay.. polio was largely eradicated due to improvements in health and sanitation.. NOT VACCINES... polio rates dropped before the vaccine was introduced.. a fact you can find anywhere.. not only that in america.. diagnosis for diagnosing polio changed significantly when the vaccine came out to make the vaccine look good... diagnosed meningitis which is alarmingly similar to polio was increasing... while reported diagnosed polio decreased... ... The fact that many cases of Polio diagnosed coincide with the dilemma surrounding DDT.. is another story all together.. i wonder what kind of toxicity and pollution these people with so called polio are subjected to are they all lab confirmed cases? the don't always confirm especially here... people get flu shots all the time here for a flu that has never been confirmed in a lab.. yet cdc likes to claim 3600 a year die from flu... ... i can and will be back with more refs.. it takes time to dig all of it up... does not mean the debate is over
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#24 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 05:40 PM
 
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...ok...

so, any source that contradicts your (unsourced) claims is just wrong for any variety of reasons.

So essentially: debate over.

Hope some of this at least helped you in your thoughts, Surromommy. let me know if want to see anything else on this. Before my husband switched jobs, we had planned to travel with him to Bangalore and some other areas of India. I did a lot of looking into the different vaccines out there and the situation overseas. I still have a lot of that stuff here.
not any source.. but many times research is manipulated to produce desireable results to get pops to comply... we experience that ever increasingly with the pharmaceutical industry as much of the pills and other spew they pump out kill many... iatrogenic death total more than 300,000 a year.. prescription drugs now kill more people than street drugs...


"i will be back.."


so essentially... debate not over
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when the pop needs over 10 doses there is something wrong
Three doses of OPV are necessary. What is "wrong" in this scenario is that we know that the vaccines are often stored improperly during transport so the extra vaccines are given to ensure that a certain amount of immunity is acquired even if a certain percentage of doses were not good due to storage problems.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD-IuczagIQ
CHECK THE ARCHIVES FOR MORE INFO AND "SOURCEABLE LINKS" as some would like to call them... hundreds of thousands and in reality millions of us are not just spewing misinformation.. there is an injustice being done to our rights and our bodies and our children... and it has to end... we aren't all lying.. and we are very informed... you have to question what is going on.. autism and other related disorders did not just appear out of thin air.. like it or not these events correlate with the abuse of vaccines and pharmaceuticals
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...play.php?f=113

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/vaccines.htm

http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/web2.html

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio.htm

http://www.*********/vaccines/polio4.html

http://www.*********/v/polio2.htm

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main33....ed_vaccine.asp

many of these links have LEGITIMATE SOURCES AND INFO.. so many people find it easy to deny reality.. it's ashame.. reality is not always easy to accept but you cannot undo a vaccine.. think really hard before you put yourself at risk.. compliance is more dangerous than the vaccine.. the future of our children is at risk... they will grow up in a world where they do not own thier bodies.. people have to stop this deleterious pattern of thought... and not one vaccine has proven to be the godsend it has been made out to be.. there is more links.. much of my links had been wiped out and some links i had were moved.. as they are quite frequently when you look up research documents... especially when they are not favorable to the sale and compliance of the pharmecutical they want to sell you... you have to look at both sides ... either way proceed in your decision with caution.. you cannot undo the vaccine and what it introduces and does in the body.. you cannot take it out.

medical professionals that administer vaccines.. and pharmaceutical companies that make them should have no part in the making of policy or research.. any research should come from independent sources free of any conflict of interest..
i imagine it would be hard to accept that vaccines are causing immense amount of health issues, and death if your livelyhood or career or status of employment depended on the use of them.. many doctors and nurses lab techs and the such will be looking for work one day and i imagine those circumstance would make it very hard for someone to be accepting of the reality of the situation..
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#27 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 10:58 PM
 
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Three doses of OPV are necessary. What is "wrong" in this scenario is that we know that the vaccines are often stored improperly during transport so the extra vaccines are given to ensure that a certain amount of immunity is acquired even if a certain percentage of doses were not good due to storage problems.
if storage problems were indeed the problem.. they could easily remedy that.. storage problems are no excuse for vaccinating a pop of young children 10 times by the age of 7 for polio
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#28 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 11:10 PM
 
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two points:

1) my joke about "debate over" was in reaction to the fact that you just poo pooed my source concerning the cases of wild v vaccine Polio as being a lie and 'probably funded by evil pharma" argument. Hence, it is obvious to me that you are not willing to look at the material, which plainly shows that your claim about OPV Polio infecting more than Wild is wrong.

2) not a single one of your links backs up said claims:
Quote:
the opv has crippled more people than the wild polio

Quote:
no prevention there especially since the oral polio hasn't done much in india to stop the spread of polio.. it actually increased the spread of polio.
Even when you look at the VDPV in Nigeria, you see that the wild type still far outnumbers that problem and that those testing positive for the VDPV are usually unimmunized or underimmunizaed.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#29 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 11:45 PM
 
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two points:

1) my joke about "debate over" was in reaction to the fact that you just poo pooed my source concerning the cases of wild v vaccine Polio as being a lie and 'probably funded by evil pharma" argument. Hence, it is obvious to me that you are not willing to look at the material, which plainly shows that your claim about OPV Polio infecting more than Wild is wrong.

2) not a single one of your links backs up said claims:





Even when you look at the VDPV in Nigeria, you see that the wild type still far outnumbers that problem and that those testing positive for the VDPV are usually unimmunized or underimmunizaed.
i was not trying to back up any particular claim but to show that the vaccine is not what you make it out to be... and my point was the vaccine itself can easily cause the virus to spread.. in america... many outbreaks of polio last century was caused by the vaccine itself, the fact that the diagnosis criteria itself is questionable.. etc etc

"LONDON (AP) — Polio, a dreaded paralyzing disease stamped out in the industrialized world, is spreading in Nigeria despite efforts to stamp it out. And health officials say in some cases, it's caused by the vaccine used to fight it.
In July, the World Health Organization issued a warning that this vaccine-spread virus might extend beyond Africa. So far, 124 Nigerian children have been paralyzed this year — about twice those afflicted in 2008."

"But it is made from a live polio virus — albeit weakened — which carries a small risk of causing polio for every million or so doses given. In even rarer instances, the virus in the vaccine can mutate into a deadlier version that ignites new outbreaks."

"In 2007, health experts reported that amid Nigeria's ongoing outbreak of wild polio viruses, 69 children had also been paralyzed in a new outbreak caused by the mutation of a vaccine's virus.

Back then, WHO said the vaccine-linked outbreak would be swiftly overcome — yet two years later, cases continue to mount. They have since identified polio cases linked to the vaccine dating back as far as 2005."

there are so many things yet unknown and deny altogether with the vaccination campange and more and more we see what a mistake it is too assume they are safe.. or necessary... These outbreaks will occur no matter how many vaccines they try to give.. because the TRUTH of the matter is... SUCEPTABILITY is due to the persons state of health, sanitary conditions, low socioeconomic status.. etc etc.. you will never see outbreaks like that in civilizations with access to clean water, nutrition, HYGENE and shelter and money to seek out adequate health care and by that i do not mean popping pills to supress symptoms but actuall health care.. NOT VACCINES
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#30 of 48 Old 08-31-2009, 11:47 PM
 
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IMO, the situation in Nigeria is only the way it is because of what happened when they stopped the vaccine for a year. It will take them a while to recover from that.

But, as I said, even then you have the wild cases far outnumbering the VDPV and VDPV in mostly un and underimmunized individuals.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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