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#1 of 22 Old 09-26-2009, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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that I met through FB and myspace. She into Great Danes (like I am) and 30 weeks pregnant with twins (and I have twins!) so we immediately had things in common. She's really sweet and mainstream unforntually I posted on fb the other day that I was sick. Our convo went something like this

Me: I'm sick

Her:sorry, I just got my flu shot last week and I'm getting the swine flu shot next month

Me:ugh! no shots for me!

Her: after going through in-vetro, I'm use to needles

Me: it isn't the needles I don't like, it's the junk in them

Her: I don't like them either but my doc recommended that I get both so I will

Me: (trying to be as PC as possible) I would do your research. the vaccine has not been tested that long and definately not on pregnant womem. If I were you, I'd pass.

She didn't reply back. Was I too harsh? I try to be "nice" about it and still get my point across. I wanted to say "are you freaking CRAZY! keep those babies safe mama and don't get poisoned" but I can't say that without sounding like a complete lunatic....*sigh*

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#2 of 22 Old 09-26-2009, 09:55 PM
 
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I think you were really nice about it. It may have offended her, but it also may be what gives her the "push" to research vaccines.

It's a tricky balance between informing those you care about and looking like the crazy conspiracy theorist. This is why I have very few friends IRL (and the ones I do have are just like me).

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#3 of 22 Old 09-26-2009, 11:58 PM
 
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A friend of mine just posted on facebook that her daughter has an appointment for the flu shot next week. She's only 7 months old... I really wanted to say something but I have already had the "vaccinations are bad" discussion with her and she just wants to go with whatever her doctor tells her. We've basically just come to an unspoken agreement not to talk about it, because she gets annoyed with me pressing less medical intervention, and I get frustrated by her telling me I need more medical intervention for my DD and my pregnancy. She's a good friend and I care about her and her DD, but I haven't figured out a way to voice my concerns and actually be heard.

So, anyway, I don't think you were too harsh. You were way nicer about it than I've been in the past! I've really had to tone myself down because I think I've gotten on everyone I know's nerves when it comes to "please don't: get induced/vaccinate/circumsize/cio!" Now I do my best to just not talk about it anymore. Most everyone knows where I stand, and I'll be here if they ever want to ask questions.
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#4 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 02:23 AM
 
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I think that you said that nicely. Hopefully she decides to research.

Traditional & nutrient-dense foods/Weston A. Price Foundation advocate, Reiki II practitioner, EFT practitioner, past life & life between lives Hypnotherapist practitioner. Home birth with DD 2007 = never vaccinated, breastfed 3 years

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#5 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 04:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by angie7 View Post

I try to be "nice" about it and still get my point across. I wanted to say "are you freaking CRAZY! keep those babies safe mama and don't get poisoned" but I can't say that without sounding like a complete lunatic....*sigh*

It seems you don't respect people with different opinions & choices than you have & make for your family. Usually, even if they try to "be nice," when someone wants to "get their point across" & thinks someone is freaking crazy and making a deadly mistake, their underlying message is pretty obvious.

What would your gut reaction be if your conversation went like this:

Me: I'm sick

Her: sorry, I just got my flu shot last week

Me:ugh! no shots for me!

Her: why? vaccines prevent you from getting sick

Me: I don't like the junk in them

Her: (trying to be as PC as possible) I would do your research. Vaccines prevent the spread of disease and keep you from getting sick. If I were you, I'd get myself vaccinated.

Wife to my of 10 years, SAHM to my 2 beautiful homebirthed girls Sydney (4/29/2006) Kennedy (3/21/2010) & 1 super Newfoundland
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#6 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 04:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jacie87 View Post
she gets annoyed with me pressing less medical intervention, and I get frustrated by her telling me I need more medical intervention for my DD and my pregnancy.

There you go! If you don't care to keep friends with someone, tell them how to parent! Easy way to "break up"

Wife to my of 10 years, SAHM to my 2 beautiful homebirthed girls Sydney (4/29/2006) Kennedy (3/21/2010) & 1 super Newfoundland
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#7 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 05:25 AM
 
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You were not too harsh. She probably never thought to question her dr before, and you made her realize that and she didn't know what to say. I would have probably come across as the lunatic if it were me, but you were very smooth. Nicely done. Next time consider turning your sentence into a question so you are more likely to get a reply. Like "did you know the vaccine has not been tested that long and definately not on pregnant womem?" - more likely to start a conversation that way instead of end one.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
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#8 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 07:09 AM
 
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Yes, people do express their opinion, no matter how 'nicely' they couch it. I think newmum35's idea of asking a question is a good idea. I do not advise people to avoid or accept vaccination, as it really is a personal choice that only the person/parent can ultimately take responsibility for. Ideally people/parents would have more information to make the decision. And ideally advice would be given in such as way as to leave a person free to make the choice they feel is best for them.

Megan, mama to her little boy (Feb2008) and introducing our little girl (Dec 2010)
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#9 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 03:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Carley View Post
It seems you don't respect people with different opinions & choices than you have & make for your family. Usually, even if they try to "be nice," when someone wants to "get their point across" & thinks someone is freaking crazy and making a deadly mistake, their underlying message is pretty obvious.

What would your gut reaction be if your conversation went like this:

Me: I'm sick

Her: sorry, I just got my flu shot last week

Me:ugh! no shots for me!

Her: why? vaccines prevent you from getting sick

Me: I don't like the junk in them

Her: (trying to be as PC as possible) I would do your research. Vaccines prevent the spread of disease and keep you from getting sick. If I were you, I'd get myself vaccinated.
Well if it was me, my gut reaction would be that my friend hadn't done much research on vaccinations. Because it is fairly common knowledge that they do not 100% prevent transmission, and do not gaurantee you will not get sick . Then I'd move on.

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#10 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 04:05 PM
 
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It's really illogical to call what she said disrespectful. I'm not saying advice can never be given disrespectfully, but it doesn't sound like that was the case here at all. She said about as little as she thought was necessary and left it at that. She hasn't claimed to be hounding her about it. Throughout my entire life, people have given me advice. Sometimes they give me something to think about, sometimes I don't give them any thought at all.

Name one person in your life who has never once given you any advice about anything at all. More than likely, no one can name that person. It's human nature to give advice. Sometimes it's unwanted, sometimes it's bad, but it generally comes with good intentions. If you don't like it, you shrug it off and move on. Big deal.

My best friend recently told me I should stop nursing to give myself a rest. I want my DD to self-wean, so I was taken aback by this, but she cares about me and knows I'm running ragged. Her suggestion came out of love and concern for me. I won't take her advice, but I appreciate the thought behind it.
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#11 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 05:04 PM
 
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It's really illogical to call what she said disrespectful.
I didn't call what she said disrespectful, I said clearly she doesn't respect people who have different opinions about vaccines. She thinks people who vaccinate are "crazy" and "poisoning" their children. Usually if someone feels that strongly about something, that air is going to come out no matter how "nicely" they try to "get their point across" (read: change someone's mind).

I also think it's patronizing and naive to assume someone who chooses to vaccinate and believes in herd immunity "hasn't done much research" or had never thought to question whether it was the right decision for them.

Anyway, OP, I'd assume my "friend" was over the vaccine "conversation" unless she brought it up again

Wife to my of 10 years, SAHM to my 2 beautiful homebirthed girls Sydney (4/29/2006) Kennedy (3/21/2010) & 1 super Newfoundland
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#12 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 05:33 PM
 
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I also think it's patronizing and naive to assume someone who chooses to vaccinate and believes in herd immunity "hasn't done much research" or had never thought to question whether it was the right decision for them.
I agree with you. But, I consider "I don't like them either but my doc recommended that I get both so I will" as having done no research at all.

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#13 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 06:14 PM
 
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I didn't call what she said disrespectful, I said clearly she doesn't respect people who have different opinions about vaccines. She thinks people who vaccinate are "crazy" and "poisoning" their children. Usually if someone feels that strongly about something, that air is going to come out no matter how "nicely" they try to "get their point across" (read: change someone's mind).

I also think it's patronizing and naive to assume someone who chooses to vaccinate and believes in herd immunity "hasn't done much research" or had never thought to question whether it was the right decision for them.

Anyway, OP, I'd assume my "friend" was over the vaccine "conversation" unless she brought it up again

Not what I got out of her post at all. One can think that vaccinating is crazy and that they are poison, but still have the utmost respect for people who have DONE THE REASEARCH and come to a different conclusion for their circumstances. If the conversation was how she posted. This friend of hers has clarly not researched the topic at all and is blindly following the advice of her doctor.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#14 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 06:36 PM
 
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i wouldn't have responded either. i know you meant well but telling someone to do more research when they disagree with you is condenscending even if they haven't done any research at all.

the other person had already gotten the shots, telling her to do research sounds like you just want to make sure she knows how wrong and ill informed she is and how right and educated you are.
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#15 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 07:04 PM
 
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i wouldn't have responded either. i know you meant well but telling someone to do more research when they disagree with you is condenscending even if they haven't done any research at all.

the other person had already gotten the shots, telling her to do research sounds like you just want to make sure she knows how wrong and ill informed she is and how right and educated you are.
Yup. Not harsh, but pretty condescending. People tend to not like that.
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#16 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 07:39 PM
 
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Before my DD was born, I honestly used to believe that people did not vaccinate because they did not their children to feel pain from the needle (or for religious reasons). I really thought that was all there was to it.
I so wish that someone had told me before my DD was born that I might want to research each individual vaccine.

All that is to say that Yes, there are well-meaning parents out there who have done zero research and require only a very small push towards research to start making their own decisions. Even if one reaches the conclusion that most/all vaccines are beneficial, I still believe that it's every parent's responsibility to research. So I generally say something like what you said.

However, I try to be very gentle about it. I would HATE HATE HATE for someone to make a decision based on what I said, not what they concluded from their own research. That's not a responsibility I want for any child but mine.

It's hard. I try to remember how upset I would be if a friend started campaigning to convince me to vaccinate.

ETA: I have two pregnant friends now whose doctors have prescribed Tamiflu prophylactically (just beause they *might* have been exposed to h1n1) This is not even recommended by the CDC and theoretically is leading to antiviral resistant strains, not to mention the nastiness of Tamiflu. However, I have resisted the temptation to say anything-- if they get h1n1 (which they may or may not, even w/ Tamiflu, who knows), I don't want them thinking, "I would be totally fine now if it weren't for my crazy nosy hippy friend."

Aspiring to 1 Thessalonians 4:11.Wife to Dh, 2004. Mother to DD 3/07.
So thankful for our healthy baby boy, born Easter morning, 2010!
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#17 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 09:30 PM
 
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One can think that vaccinating is crazy and that they are poison, but still have the utmost respect for people who have DONE THE REASEARCH and come to a different conclusion for their circumstances.
Interesting! I guess it's difficult for me to comprehend someone thinking "They're poisoning their child. I sure respect that about them!"

As far as "blindly" following medical advice, I still don't think it's clear her friend did not make an informed decision. It's possible she appealed to authority in an attempt to politely end the conversation, similarly to how some people appeal to the APA's statement on breastfeeding when others comment on their choices in breastfeeding.

It's equally possible her bottom line is that she respects her doctor's opinion (which is the same as the CDC's, btw). Many people consider their doctor & the CDC "Credible" sources & simply disagree with the opposing argument. That doesn't make them "Blind," that means they have a different opinion.

Wife to my of 10 years, SAHM to my 2 beautiful homebirthed girls Sydney (4/29/2006) Kennedy (3/21/2010) & 1 super Newfoundland
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#18 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 09:33 PM
 
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I try to remember how upset I would be if a friend started campaigning to convince me to vaccinate.
That's good advice!

Wife to my of 10 years, SAHM to my 2 beautiful homebirthed girls Sydney (4/29/2006) Kennedy (3/21/2010) & 1 super Newfoundland
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#19 of 22 Old 09-27-2009, 09:56 PM
 
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Interesting! I guess it's difficult for me to comprehend someone thinking "They're poisoning their child. I sure respect that about them!"
I think it's more like, "I believe they're poisoning their child. But, I respect that they made the decision that they believe was best for their child."

Denise, mama to ds1 (03/26/05) and boy/girl twins born 08/12/08
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#20 of 22 Old 09-28-2009, 02:17 AM
 
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I still believe that it's every parent's responsibility to research.

However, I try to be very gentle about it. I would HATE HATE HATE for someone to make a decision based on what I said, not what they concluded from their own research. That's not a responsibility I want for any child but mine.
I completely agree with these bits that I cut out from the post.

I would never tell another parent what I do, implying it is the best. I would never in any way suggest a preferred solution when it comes to vaccinating. Families need to make the decision that is the best fit for them. When friends do ask me about vaccines I answer specific questions they have. And if there is no specific question, I ask them to formulate a specific question. If asked (and this has never happened IRL) to explain why I do not vaccinate, I would explain myself. Not to convince someone else to do what I did, but to explain my reasoning. People can take it or leave it. Their choice is their responsibility, not mine.

Megan, mama to her little boy (Feb2008) and introducing our little girl (Dec 2010)
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#21 of 22 Old 09-28-2009, 10:12 AM
 
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Interesting! I guess it's difficult for me to comprehend someone thinking "They're poisoning their child. I sure respect that about them!"

As far as "blindly" following medical advice, I still don't think it's clear her friend did not make an informed decision. It's possible she appealed to authority in an attempt to politely end the conversation, similarly to how some people appeal to the APA's statement on breastfeeding when others comment on their choices in breastfeeding.

It's equally possible her bottom line is that she respects her doctor's opinion (which is the same as the CDC's, btw). Many people consider their doctor & the CDC "Credible" sources & simply disagree with the opposing argument. That doesn't make them "Blind," that means they have a different opinion.
....I am now realizing it is pointless to respond to second hand conversations....the bottom line is we were not there, we don't know this person and we have no real idea about the tone of the conversation. I was responding and interpreting the OP's post about the conversation....which said TO ME that her friend had not done any research and was blindly following the doctor's advice. You could be right...perhaps she is well informed and perhaps she isn't...speculating is pointless.

I also think that people can think their doctors and the CDC are credible sources of information, however if they still do no other research (and Im not saying this person in question did or didn't...we don't know) IMO that is not being informed. One must put in time to look at ALL sides of an issue pro and con and anything in between.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#22 of 22 Old 09-28-2009, 12:09 PM
 
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It seems you don't respect people with different opinions & choices than you have & make for your family. Usually, even if they try to "be nice," when someone wants to "get their point across" & thinks someone is freaking crazy and making a deadly mistake, their underlying message is pretty obvious.

What would your gut reaction be if your conversation went like this:

Me: I'm sick

Her: sorry, I just got my flu shot last week

Me:ugh! no shots for me!

Her: why? vaccines prevent you from getting sick

Me: I don't like the junk in them

Her: (trying to be as PC as possible) I would do your research. Vaccines prevent the spread of disease and keep you from getting sick. If I were you, I'd get myself vaccinated.
That's ok if the convo went like that, I don't see a problem with it, nothing disrespectful, its just opinions. I would respond to her by listing out all the books and web sites that I've read through and then ask her what research she has done, and then elaborate about my anti-vaccine research. It would be a great conversation.

Traditional & nutrient-dense foods/Weston A. Price Foundation advocate, Reiki II practitioner, EFT practitioner, past life & life between lives Hypnotherapist practitioner. Home birth with DD 2007 = never vaccinated, breastfed 3 years

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