First ever vaccinated vs. unvaccinated study - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 10-03-2009, 09:50 AM
 
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This study is seriously flawed. Only 2 weeks using a vaccine that isn't even used. The statistical difference is very small. Not to mention this study was done by a company that makes money off of people who have been "damaged" by vaccines. I'm all for being critical of vaxes but honestly if this study had shown no difference or that vaccines actually helped these monkeys we'd be tearing the methodology apart limb by limb.
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Old 10-03-2009, 10:02 AM
 
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I definately see flaws in the study. If the monkeys reach adult hood that quick, how are they doing long term effects of the vaccine or the ingrediants? Wasn't shooting the vaccines into the human population study enough?
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:44 PM
 
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murmur, do you have some connection to this study?
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Old 10-03-2009, 03:18 PM
 
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Don't all vax studies compare the vaccinated to the unvaccinated? How else do they know if it works?
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Old 10-03-2009, 03:38 PM
 
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Don't all vax studies compare the vaccinated to the unvaccinated? How else do they know if it works?
Only when there is no other vaccine out there for the disease. So for Gardasil, yes placebo group. For a new measles, vax, no. But all vaxes get tested on animals first.

As a side not, it's kind of a big no-no for anyone to release a galley for a paper before it's actually been reviewed and published. I think these 13 monkeys died for nothing although the researchers were really, really, really trying to prove their point. But there were no developmental delays for either group.
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Old 10-03-2009, 04:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lisalou View Post
Only when there is no other vaccine out there for the disease. So for Gardasil, yes placebo group. For a new measles, vax, no. But all vaxes get tested on animals first.
Ah, right. Cheers.

I wonder if this vax has been tested in this way before?
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Old 10-03-2009, 04:28 PM
 
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Where does it say the monkeys died?


Quote:
Originally Posted by lisalou View Post
Only when there is no other vaccine out there for the disease. So for Gardasil, yes placebo group. For a new measles, vax, no. But all vaxes get tested on animals first.

As a side not, it's kind of a big no-no for anyone to release a galley for a paper before it's actually been reviewed and published. I think these 13 monkeys died for nothing although the researchers were really, really, really trying to prove their point. But there were no developmental delays for either group.
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Old 10-04-2009, 03:08 AM
 
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Where does it say the monkeys died?
And that there "there were no developmental delays for either group"

Can you share your link for this info that we are missing and the linked to page clearly did not agree with...

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Old 10-04-2009, 09:50 AM
 
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Neonatal reflexes and sensorimotor responses were measured daily from birth until post-natal Day 14.
They had to stop there because they say that, at 14 days, other things happen to the monkeys that would mess up the results.

In Hewiston's other studies, which have not been published but the 'poster presentations' have been talked about extensively- the monkeys were all killed after the study period. Though the second time this happened, it was to dissect their guts and the like.


Notice how they changed the protocol mid study, adding the 4 saline injection group monkeys to the no injection group to create an N of 7-- which they call "unexposed"...given that they are only looking at a 2 week period, I would think it's obvious that the handling and injection of those 4 (given that not handling was a big part of the study protocol) makes them different than the 3 that did not have the handling and injections.

Of course, I really don't get why they didn't just make the two groups even *shrug*-- same with the birth weight and gestational age- why make the exposed group the one with the less weight and younger age?

I could go on...this is just like her last one, pretty poorly put together.

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Old 10-04-2009, 09:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lisalou View Post
Only when there is no other vaccine out there for the disease. So for Gardasil, yes placebo group.
I didn't read ahead, sorry. But this was a reactive placebo containing aluminum. Determining real side effects when you don't use a true placebo can be problematic.
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Old 10-04-2009, 10:09 PM
 
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I didn't read ahead, sorry. But this was a reactive placebo containing aluminum. Determining real side effects when you don't use a true placebo can be problematic.
Yeah, that kind of a test, imo, isn't about testing for safety so much as testing for effectiveness, no? Seems like a lot of them are tested that way...

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Old 10-04-2009, 10:10 PM
 
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The links I have to those trials on clinicaltrials.gov and a few other sources- many say "unspecified" placebo-- while some do have an aluminum containing placebo. I don't think it is possible to say they ALL contained something more than saline if such language was used in a good number of them.

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Old 10-04-2009, 10:16 PM
 
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There were also saline placebo controlled studies for the HPV vax- example:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract

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Old 10-04-2009, 11:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
Well, as exciting as this is, this is mostly about mercury which no longer in most vaccines (except for some flu ones), so it's no longer a serious threat to big pharma. Aluminum study would be a totally different story though...
Mercury is used in the manufacturing of vaccines so all vaccines still contain trace amounts and trace amounts, built up over time with the vax schedule or to many vaxes at once, can still cause brain problems.

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Old 10-05-2009, 10:58 PM
 
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I have removed several posts from this thread which were either in violation of our UA/forum guidelines or were responding to such posts. Please remember to remain respectful of others in your discussion. Should the thread need to be removed again, it will not be returned to the board.
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:14 PM
 
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Just curious, is Thimerosal just a preservative, or is (was) it also considered an adjuvant when used in vaccines?
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:38 PM
 
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It's a preservative still used in vaccines. Even the CDC site lists what vaxes it's used in. The amount has been decreased, yes, but it's still there.

I think this is a great study. As for the monkeys being removed from their mothers...well, while not great I don't see how else to do a study to get information. Nothing will ever be "perfect" and "acceptable" to all people. Do I feel bad for the monkeys? Sure. But I feel more relief that someone, somewhere is doing something to show the naysayers that there is an issue.

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Old 10-07-2009, 09:25 PM
 
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It's because if the mom has the disease she can pass it to the baby--another way it can be transmitted.
Quite honestly I still don't understand this reasoning... though this is what the medical establishment says. They have an immunglobin and it can take weeks to develop antibodies to a vax so the newborn would still be unprotected if they don't get the immunglobin.

Glad to see some study on this topic... I'll have to dig a bit to see the fine print.
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