was bullied into vaccinating - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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To make a long story short, dd is 10 months and hasn't been vaccinated. She had colitis as an infant so I declined vaccination. I still wasn't sure when to start vaccinating, however yesterday at her well baby visit she had an ear infection so that made up my mind that I would not start. I planned on doing a delayed, selective vaccine anyway.

Well, the ped said I needed to sign a form and that I was supposed to sign it a long time ago. I quickly signed the form because I had been at the ped for almost 2 hours, it was past naptime and I work on Mondays. As the nurse was taking it away I noticed a highlighted part that said something about harming my child.
I ended up leaving (all of this is VERY stupid on my part I know) and was later discussing with my husband. We agreed we do not want this in her chart and we went to the office today to have it removed. Upon reading this document I stupidly signed, it stated that I realize I am putting my child's or someone elses child at risk that may result in dealth.
We explained to them we weren't comfortable with the statement and they wouldn't let us cross it out or remove it from the chart. Finally, after arguing and dealing with several doctors, nurses and managers we agreed to start vaccinating if they would remove the signed paper.
They did let me postpone the vaccinations, but made an appointment in 1 week for vaccination.
I feel stupid, helpless and dumb I let myself get into this situation. This is the only group in the immediate area and all the 1 person practices aren't taking new patients.
Just a vent, I'm sure there is not much I can do now. I really want that signed paper removed.
THanks for listening
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#2 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 01:33 PM
 
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Personally i would skip the vax appointment and the next time you have access to the notes rip that page out and tear it up - they are YOUR notes anyway, they just have them because they need them more, to treat you, than you do. They might kick up a big fuss but what are they going to do? Just refuse to sign another one.
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#3 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 01:44 PM
 
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Don't do it! Don't vaccinate your child just because of this, if you're not completely comfortable with it. You can cancel the appointment or just skip it.

I would go over their heads about keeping that form. You can retract your signature if you want to. Let them keep the form, but I would INSIST that they give it back to you so that you can cross out your name. If they keep refusing, type up a new form stating that you do NOT feel not vaccinating is risky to your child or other children, and insist that they put it in your file.

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#4 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 01:53 PM
 
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Do you really think you are going to vaccinate your child based on informed consent in a situation like this?

If you are going to vaccinate in a week, why would you sign something like that and why did they ask you to sign it?

Get your records and go to another pediatrician. Pediatricians like this one are a dime a dozen. When you get your records, pull out the form. There are other forms on these threads that you can sign that are not as draconian.

Did the doctor even give you an insert to read or a consent form for the vaccine that states the side effects and reactions to look for?

Did you know if your child has a reaction to a vaccine that the doctor insists on giving to your child that you can never sue the doctor? That paper you signed is worthless. The doctor is off the hook for an liability connected to vaccines whether you sign it or not; you cannot even sue the drug company that made the vaccine. So silly!
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#5 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 01:54 PM
 
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. Finally, after arguing and dealing with several doctors, nurses and managers we agreed to start vaccinating if they would remove the signed paper.
This is not a good reason to start vaccinating your child.

I am quite horrified that you have been put in that position. I am so sorry.

I agree with GoBecGo. Skip the appointment and continue reading and considering your choices.


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#6 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 03:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by moonlight mom View Post
I feel stupid, helpless and dumb I let myself get into this situation. This is the only group in the immediate area and all the 1 person practices aren't taking new patients.
Just a vent, I'm sure there is not much I can do now. I really want that signed paper removed.
THanks for listening
They played you; CANCEL the appointment, or go WITHOUT your child with a new form. They cannot legally remove that document from the chart as if it were never there; all they can do is put in a new "corrected" one. A medical record is a legal document and there are a lot of rules as to how they are maintained.

You do not have to go to a ped, you can try a family doctor.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#7 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 03:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post
Personally i would skip the vax appointment and the next time you have access to the notes rip that page out and tear it up - they are YOUR notes anyway, they just have them because they need them more, to treat you, than you do. They might kick up a big fuss but what are they going to do? Just refuse to sign another one.
Actually, your medical records are the legal property of the doctor, though you are entitled to a copy.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#8 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 03:23 PM
 
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You do NOT have to vax your child over that. Frankly if your child had a vpd and someone caught it and tried to sue you over it (HIGHLY unlikely) and that document came into play, it'd be very easy for your atty to make a case for it being signed under duress and therefore invalid. Cancel the appointment. Besides that, step back and think about this for a moment. Do you REALLY believe you are putting your child or another child in greater risk for death than anyone else in the community simply because your not vaxxing? I mean seriously, that is one of the biggest fearmongering scams out there. So what if it's in their record, you're NOT putting anyone at greater risk so it's a moot point anyway. Cancel the appointment and do NOT allow them to talk down to you or criticize you. A simple "We have evaluated the choice of vaccination and do not wish to vaccinate our child. This is no longer negotiable or open to discussion." If they argue, as that they treat you in a professional manner and walk out if you have to. Children can been seen by family practice dr's as easily as pediatricians, so you can certainly look to go elsewhere!
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#9 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 03:49 PM
 
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Forget about the paper you signed. It certainly is no reason to get your child vaccinated. If it makes you feel better, re-write the note and tell them to put that also in your child's file in addition to your other form.

Here is a good decline form to put on file -

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...33&postcount=2

btw, I would cancel the appointment. Go back when you need a doctor not just for the heck of it.

It's actually kind of them to let you stay with them in spite of not vaccinating. You have no idea how many parents get "fired" for sticking up for their rights to keep their child unvaccinated.
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#10 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 03:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ema-adama View Post
Rip that page out if you get the chance
I have to confess my dd actually did that to her son's file. But she never said a word beforehand that she wanted it removed. She just thought about it, did not feel comfortable and that's how she handled it. It may not have been the right thing to do but it sure made her feel better at the time. and they never noticed. (Now we probably wouldn't worry about it.)

That was 11 years ago.
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#11 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 03:56 PM
 
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I'm sorry that they made you feel pressured that way. I had to sign a form like that "knowingly going against advice that may cause my child harm" when I signed my baby out of the hospital AMA when he was born. It's scary to effectively sign away responsibility from the doctor if your child gets sick.

I wish I had advice, but luckily mandatory vaccination isn't something that I have to worry about. I could be wrong, but isn't that form just taking responsibility off the doctor if they get sick from a VPD? Does it have any legal ramifications for you as a parent from a criminality perspective? I'm not familiar with the form. The reason why I'm asking is because if you feel like you don't need the vaccine, why not sign the form? I didn't love the idea when I wanted my child out of the hospital, but I believed in my reasoning and I accepted that risk. It was the right choice for us, by the way.

Anyway, good luck.
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#12 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 04:11 PM
 
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I have had peds that bully me. I actually gave in and did get one and only one vaccine for my 4 month old and felt bad after. He was fussy the rest of the day, didn't eat much, and woke up with a mostly dry diaper (I was a bit concerned about that, but he quickly upped his wet diapers that day). So if you don't want to, don't vaccinate! Maybe consider switching peds if this becomes a big problem.

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#13 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 04:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by emma1325 View Post
If they keep refusing, type up a new form stating that you do NOT feel not vaccinating is risky to your child or other children, and insist that they put it in your file.
Good idea. Do not vaccinate her at all at the next appointment. Type up a new form and date it and hand it to them, and they'll have to take the most recently dated document as true, and explain in the new form you typed up that it cancels any other form that you previously signed about not vaccinating being harmful.

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#14 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 04:38 PM
 
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I must be seriously dense or missing something because I am completely NOT getting why you would choose to vaccinate your child because of a piece of paper. I mean, I don't know about you, but the reason I don't vaccinate is because I feel they are inherently harmful and cause a whole host of more serious problems, as well as the fact that they contain known poisions which no one has done any extensive testing on. To sum it up, I think vaccines are dangerous! So you are willing to inject your child with dangerous chemicals, possibly causing lifelong problems, because of a piece of paper? Someone please tell me I'm missing something here, because I don't get it.

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#15 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 04:44 PM
 
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I'm sure there is not much I can do now.
I have not read the other replies. I just wanted to say -- sure, there is MUCH more you can do now. Start with doing your research and being confident in your choice not to vaccinate. Then, the second part will come naturally -- which is not caring what their form says. That form does not decide the outcome of whether your child will be harmed from a VPD. And how, exactly, are you putting other vaccinated children at risk, if these vaccines are so fail-proof? I cannot believe that someone would take their child in to be vaccinated for this reason. If you want to vaccinate -- fine -- if you DON'T, then do your research and be confident in your choice.

Their form could say "I understand that my child could end up with purple balloons coming out of her nose" but that doesn't mean it is going to happen.
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#16 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 04:44 PM
 
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I must be seriously dense or missing something because I am completely NOT getting why you would choose to vaccinate your child because of a piece of paper. I mean, I don't know about you, but the reason I don't vaccinate is because I feel they are inherently harmful and cause a whole host of more serious problems, as well as the fact that they contain known poisions which no one has done any extensive testing on. To sum it up, I think vaccines are dangerous! So you are willing to inject your child with dangerous chemicals, possibly causing lifelong problems, because of a piece of paper? Someone please tell me I'm missing something here, because I don't get it.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Please don't take your child to that appt. AS PPs have said, rewrite a letter stating your educated and informed decision to delay/withold vaccinations, and bring that to the Dr.'s office.
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#17 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 04:44 PM
 
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Irregardless of the paper and whether you get it back or not....
Do not let this force you into vaxxing your child. I would rather they have that stupid paper on file, than vax my child.
IMO, that form is for their protection anyways. It's so that you can't ever come back on them saying that they didn't tell your the risks if you child gets sick with measles etc. and you didn't vax.

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#18 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 04:47 PM
 
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I could be wrong, but isn't that form just taking responsibility off the doctor if they get sick from a VPD?
That is correct. It actually protects the doctor.

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The reason why I'm asking is because if you feel like you don't need the vaccine, why not sign the form?
The form itself is very degrading. Like I am stupid enough to put my child in serious danger...blah, blah.... all nonsense. There is nothing but lies in that form. You ought to read it.
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#19 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all the responses. I really feel stupid that I signed something so quickly without reading it. My concern about having a document like that in her chart could mean that CPS could come and take my kids away since I knowingly signed a document that says I am doing something that will harm my kids.
I am going to take your advice and write my own document (thanks for the link) and include that I do not believe I am putting my child at risk and demand they add it to her chart.
Thanks again,
Lindsay
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#20 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 05:36 PM
 
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There is nothing but lies in that form. You ought to read it.
Hmm...are you suggesting that I open my mind beyond what my gut instinct is telling me?
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#21 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 05:47 PM
 
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Remember you dont have to do the WBC at all or you can only do certain ones. It is totally up to you and perfectly legal. I stopped all WBC when I stopped vaxing since I had a baby scale and ruler and didnt want to debate vax at every single appt. Some prefer to do WBC so they are covered and then only do 2m, 6, and a year. Some more some less.

From what you describe going through if it where me I would avoid them because they are going to give you are really hard time every time. Something you can do is tell them you are religiously opposed to them and they may leave you alone since they dont want to get in trouble for discrimination.

 
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#22 of 34 Old 12-08-2009, 11:33 PM
 
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I'm so sorry they bullied you. Not a reason to vax though. I'd cancel the appt if it were me and switch drs. You could always write a note stating the circumstances that surrounded the paper and have them put it in the chart, and keep a copy for yourself. I'd make them sign it. Also the MDC paper too.
Hugs to you.
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#23 of 34 Old 12-09-2009, 06:14 PM
 
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It sounds like you've decided to cancel the appt. and not get her vaccinated. You don't have to keep that appt. just in case you were wondering.

The problem with allowing yourself to be bullied is that the bully gets to walk away and forget the interaction, but you get stuck with the feelings of regret and inadequacy from being the victim of the bully. Wearing a white coat doesn't mean that they're not as much of a bully as the stereotypical bully.

If I were you, I"d probably change dr's.

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#24 of 34 Old 12-09-2009, 06:41 PM
 
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Check your local laws, but those are YOUR medical records and I believe they are legally required to provide them for you. I would just take it out of the chart - in front of them or not, but I am a b* sometimes.

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#25 of 34 Old 12-09-2009, 07:34 PM
 
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Hmm...are you suggesting that I open my mind beyond what my gut instinct is telling me?
That depends on how well your gut instinct has served you in the past. I have a miraculous record. I can trust mine 100%.
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#26 of 34 Old 12-09-2009, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the advice. I am looking into a family doc right now. I would also like to update everyone that my husband went back today and asked to see his daughter's chart (a different nurse today). He took out the form and said that he is taking it home because I signed it under duress. The nurse was stunned and said you can't take that and he just walked out. The police never showed up so I assume we are OK

Anyway, I also assume that I am kicked out of the practice. Oh well.
On a side note - this is my first experience with selective/delayed vacs. My ds is fully vac. I can't believe how hard it is and how much trouble you get at every well baby visit. It is like they are the parents and not you. They treat you as if you are crazy and/or stupid. I am sorry I even went to the WBV.
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#27 of 34 Old 12-09-2009, 09:10 PM
 
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LOL, that's too funny. "You can't do that."

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#28 of 34 Old 12-09-2009, 09:43 PM
 
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Thanks for the advice. I am looking into a family doc right now. I would also like to update everyone that my husband went back today and asked to see his daughter's chart (a different nurse today). He took out the form and said that he is taking it home because I signed it under duress. The nurse was stunned and said you can't take that and he just walked out. The police never showed up so I assume we are OK

Anyway, I also assume that I am kicked out of the practice. Oh well.
On a side note - this is my first experience with selective/delayed vacs. My ds is fully vac. I can't believe how hard it is and how much trouble you get at every well baby visit. It is like they are the parents and not you. They treat you as if you are crazy and/or stupid. I am sorry I even went to the WBV.
I am sure you can see now why some people never take their kids to a doctor. Our last visit was 11 years ago. And it's been much longer for dh and me.

For trauma we go to the ER. Everything else, we take care ourselves.

We have gone to the ER once in the last 20 years for a broken arm.
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#29 of 34 Old 12-09-2009, 10:01 PM
 
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Check your local laws, but those are YOUR medical records and I believe they are legally required to provide them for you. I would just take it out of the chart - in front of them or not, but I am a b* sometimes.
I wanted to chime in as a mom that dosent vax and a nurse. Medical records are considered legal documents and are the property of the medical professional. However, under HIPPAA you have a right to have access to what your medical documents contain for instace copies/labwork/reports. NOT to the actual documents themselves . That being said, because they are considered legal documents it is considered unethical and could be contrued as illegal to alter said documents (removing,white out,deleting portions or all) because you dont like what it says. You can however request that updated or corrected information be made part of your record if you believe it is incorrect or not complete. Again this is protected under HIPPAA. If you are ever in a situation in which you disagree with what is in your medical record or believe it is not accurate do make a letter to that effect and demand that is made a part of your record.
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#30 of 34 Old 12-10-2009, 12:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by moonlight mom View Post
I would also like to update everyone that my husband went back today and asked to see his daughter's chart (a different nurse today). He took out the form and said that he is taking it home because I signed it under duress. The nurse was stunned and said you can't take that and he just walked out.
This is awesome.

I am so glad to hear a tone of empowerment instead of "I am backed into a corner and am going to vax". Good for you guys!
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