spoon fed vax on the horizon? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 26 Old 12-08-2009, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, I'm serious Here

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Dr. Barry Marshall, an Australian scientist who won a Nobel Prize for discovering the bacteria responsible for stomach ulcers, is working on a way to use those same bugs (Helicobacter pylori) to create vaccines that can be ingested.

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#2 of 26 Old 12-08-2009, 04:40 PM
 
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I wonder who would be stupid enough to be a Guinea pig?
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#3 of 26 Old 12-08-2009, 04:40 PM
 
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Wonder what it would be hidden as in food .

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#4 of 26 Old 12-08-2009, 04:50 PM
 
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After vaccinating, kids would have to be put on abx in order to kill the bacteria that's not wanted in the stomach? Or what? Have them get an ulcer?

Totally crazy! They have all turned into mad scientists.
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#5 of 26 Old 12-10-2009, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Is it too conspiracy theory of me to worry about it getting put into babyfood and formula?

Kas (24), Helpmeet to Stefan (25), Mom to Franklin Gaudelio 4/15/09, Jonathan Boswell 1/2/11
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#6 of 26 Old 12-10-2009, 03:28 PM
 
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Is it too conspiracy theory of me to worry about it getting put into babyfood and formula?
Yes.
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#7 of 26 Old 12-10-2009, 06:18 PM
 
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Is it too conspiracy theory of me to worry about it getting put into babyfood and formula?
Not too long ago it would have been crazy to worry about industrial chemical powder in infant formula. So, I would say, anything is possible.
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#8 of 26 Old 12-11-2009, 05:28 AM
 
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Is it too conspiracy theory of me to worry about it getting put into babyfood and formula?
After the ammount of products( and these are name brand staples!) I've been finding that now have corn syrup with no mention on the front.... nope.

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#9 of 26 Old 12-11-2009, 09:29 AM
 
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Is it too conspiracy theory of me to worry about it getting put into babyfood and formula?
The first thing that pops into my mind is testing being done in poor/ developing countries where formula/vaccines are pushed

YUCK!

  homeschooling, earth loving Mama to 3 crazy, wonderful boys, ages 10 & 7, & 3 mos.,3 spirit babies                                Inch by inch, row by row.  Gonna make this garden grow  
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#10 of 26 Old 12-11-2009, 12:38 PM
 
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Something would have to be very strong to survive the digestive process and still be potent enough to do what it is supposed to do.

This was the problem with DES in the late 1930's, and the scientists who developed it knew it. It was a red flag. They knew a hormone that was strong enough to survive the digestive process would be very potent. And DES was potent. It has survived through three generations that we know of. The mothers who took that pill can see the effects of the pill on her grandchildren fifty years later. It was often prescribed as a vitamin pill without telling the mother the truth about the pill she was taking. www.cdc.gov/DES/consumers/about/index.html

The fact that the Medical School of the University of Chicago did a double blind study to test its effectiveness in preventing miscarriage in the late 1940's showed it was worthless in preventing miscarriage did not keep doctors from continuing to prescribe it for another thirty years. It would still be prescribed except for the fact that it caused a rare condition in young women (CCA) only seen in older women before the late 1960's.
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#11 of 26 Old 12-11-2009, 09:50 PM
 
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I thought one of the objections to normal vaccines was that diseases are rarely introduced through cuts in the skin? So shouldn't you be pleased about oral and inhaled vaccines?
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#12 of 26 Old 12-11-2009, 10:28 PM
 
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That is just one problem with the current vaccines.

The inhaled vaccines are live. This means that the vaccine that is inhaled can spread the disease that it is supposed to prevent easily to others. This makes the person who received the vaccine a carrier, like Mary_Mallon

No one knows what a digested vaccine will do. We do have a clue from the Sabin OPV which is responsible for most of the polio cases in the United States since 1979.
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#13 of 26 Old 12-11-2009, 10:38 PM
 
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The fact that the Medical School of the University of Chicago did a double blind study to test its effectiveness in preventing miscarriage in the late 1940's showed it was worthless in preventing miscarriage did not keep doctors from continuing to prescribe it for another thirty years.
Minor point: The Dieckman study was carried out between September 1950 and November 1952, and published in 1953; it was O. Watkins Smith and George van S. Smith (of Brookline) who recommended DES in the late 40s. The U. of C. study is also notable for having delivered a heavy cumulative dose of DES as part of the trial. It was kind of bad news all around.
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#14 of 26 Old 12-11-2009, 11:52 PM
 
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Dr. Robert Mendelsohn was an intern at University of Chicago when this study took place; he said many of the women were told they were taking vitamins and did not know the experimental nature of the medication they were taking. If the study was that late, why were they studying it after it had been developed and used for ten years.

My point about mentioning DES is the fact that it was a strong hormone that survived the disgestive process and the doctors knew this before it was even developed; that something that strong would have powerful changes in the body. It was worthless for preventing miscarriages, the intended purpose, yet it was still prescribed until 1971. Many doctors kept it on their shelves and gave it out for years after. It was also given as a shot for stopping lactation for mothers who did not want to breastfeed and to young girls to keep them from growing too tall. It was used for quite a while for the morning after pill; interestingly it was to induce an abortion or prevent implantation, whereas it was an anti-miscarriage pill originally.
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#15 of 26 Old 12-12-2009, 12:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AFWife View Post
Is it too conspiracy theory of me to worry about it getting put into babyfood and formula?
Um, No, you are not too conspiracy theory lol. I feel the same way. Or, perhaps we are both just being overly cautious, considering all the junk that is already in processed food, city water, vaccines, etc. You almost need to grow your own food nowadays to know what's in it!

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#16 of 26 Old 12-12-2009, 12:39 PM
 
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If this gets to the point where it's available at local supermarkets, I could see someone accidentally overdosing because it isn't regulated or because the wrong snack was picked up. It makes me wonder how they would regulate it. It makes me nervous to think about babysitters or childcare workers/centers that would take it upon themselves to vaccinate our children with food because they don't agree with not vaxing.

What about those kids and teens that get an allowance and go buy their own snacks? I understand making medicine a bit more tolerable to taste, but presenting it as a dessert or candy makes children very eager to take medicine. This seems like it should be double locked for protection to be distributed under someone that can be held accountable for medical doses and not just available if you have a few dollars and a spoon.
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#17 of 26 Old 12-12-2009, 01:34 PM
 
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What about those kids and teens that get an allowance and go buy their own snacks?
They already make cough medicine in lollipop form, I think, and you don't hear slews of children overdosing on cough syrup pops. Since teenagers don't tend to buy their snacks from the medicine aisle of the pharmacy, I think you're okay (unless of course big pharma has been covering up the mass killings!!!!!!!!!!! Eeeek!)

Lumping HFCS (and other food additives) with vaccines, as if they're at all comparable in how they can be used and sold, demonstrates an incredible lack of understanding about medicine in general. That said, I realize it really brings the conspiracy fun down when you start thinking about things in terms of rational common sense, so I apologize for that. The truth is, however, that it would be impossible to introduce vaccines into the general food supply, as the dosages, storage requirements, and shelf-life of the vaccines could not be reliably surveyed. Kinda useless if the vaccines don't work, you know?

Aside from that, if we ARE going to play the big pHARMa game, I'd reckon they'd make far more money marketing it overtly at a premium, since so many parents who are open to immunization (understandably) don't like the needle aspect of it. Sneaking it into food so we don't need to buy it would seem counterproductive from a business standpoint, me thinks, not to mention it doesn't actually benefit the formula/babyfood industry in any way. Again, these arguments assume that there are reasonable ways this could be physically accomplished...which there aren't.

That said, I totally agree that the prospect of introducing vaccines this way seems like it opens the door to other risks that would require an enormous amount of research and study before it should be available to the public. I have a feeling this stuff (if it ever becomes feasible) is a long way off. Of course, I'm not taking into consideration the massive covert power that big pharma has to unilaterally control every aspect of government and industry on earth, so.....
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#18 of 26 Old 12-12-2009, 04:19 PM
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Is it too conspiracy theory of me to worry about it getting put into babyfood and formula?
Yes. That's not going to happen.
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#19 of 26 Old 12-12-2009, 05:40 PM
 
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I understand it would make financial sense to charge a huge amount or store it in the pharmacy aisle, but I'm thinking about the kids I used to assist that were one step away from jail. (Even mouthwash had to be dispensed because it contained alcohol.) If there aren't measures in place to regulate who gets what and when, then anything's a possibility. Considering kids will use anything to get a high/buzz, I don't put it past the same teens to experiment to see what type of reaction they could get mixed with something. Plus, considering at least two teens have used rubbing alcohol and fire to torture a peer, it really isn't far-fetched to think of them deciding to medicate a peer as a prank or dare.

I see how vaccinating parents would like the idea, but as a person that is required to keep my certification to administer medicine updated and look at every possibility that could harm my clients, I'm trained to think about the possible ways someone could become injured even if they seem far-fetched.
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#20 of 26 Old 12-12-2009, 07:10 PM
 
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Would it be possible to get high from a vaccine?
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#21 of 26 Old 12-12-2009, 08:48 PM
 
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Wouldn't spoon vaccines be administered at the doctor's offices like the shot vaccines? It would seem that the procedure for obtaining vaccines would be the exact same as it is now except that instead of getting a shot, it could be mixed with a food product and given that way.

True2Him, do you administer and keep vaccines now for your clients? If you don't, then I wouldn't really worry. If you do, then the same steps that keep them from getting the current vaccines could be used to protect oral ones.

And as someone who vaccinates, I really would love it if they come out with an oral version.

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#22 of 26 Old 12-13-2009, 12:10 AM
 
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Wouldn't spoon vaccines be administered at the doctor's offices like the shot vaccines? It would seem that the procedure for obtaining vaccines would be the exact same as it is now except that instead of getting a shot, it could be mixed with a food product and given that way.

True2Him, do you administer and keep vaccines now for your clients? If you don't, then I wouldn't really worry. If you do, then the same steps that keep them from getting the current vaccines could be used to protect oral ones.

And as someone who vaccinates, I really would love it if they come out with an oral version.


Yes, of course they would still be administered at the doctor's office. I'm not sure where this leap from an oral vaccine to it being mixed into food and available OTC in unlimited quantities came from.

Here are the things I know:
1 - Vaccines are sensitive to temperature and handling, and have shelf-lives.
2 - Vaccines must be delivered in precise doses tailored to each individual patient in order to be effective.
3 - Vaccines are highly-regulated, and only available for administration by those licensed to do so.

Any one of those three would make the scenario of them being mixed into food and available to the average consumer absolutely impossible.

Besides, vaccines are expensive. It's not as if they could sneak some Oral Polio Vaccine into a box of Little Debbies and dupe unwitting consumers into eating them. There would be no profit.

I personally think the promise of oral vaccines is not to be feared. One of the beefs I've had with vaccines is the unnatural route of entry into the body, as (from what I've read) the body can have a hard time responding to a virus that enters from such an unusual route. The oral and nasal vaccines could really be a step in the right direction.

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#23 of 26 Old 12-13-2009, 01:22 AM
 
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The problem with vaccine-laced food is the dosage. One of my former micro professors had a former grad student who is now a researcher working on polyvalent vaccines for 3rd world countries. Their goal was to figure out a way to get the vaccines in food (particularly fruit like bananas) to make them easier to distribute, etc. However, they couldn't for the life of them figure out a way to make the dosage work. (Can't make it too high in case someone at lots of the bananas, and not too low because then 1 isn't effective, etc). So, I'm not worried about laced food for that reason, and the profit reason above. However, as a future selective/delayed vaxer, I think an oral version would be nicer and possibly safer depending on how it was formulated.

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#24 of 26 Old 12-13-2009, 10:33 AM
 
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Would it be possible to get high from a vaccine?
Nobody knows? I'll have to stick to gin.
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#25 of 26 Old 12-13-2009, 12:32 PM
 
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...sigh

I clicked to read more on the article. http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1225808340062

"If this all comes together, Dr Marshall and fellow scientists attached to his biotech company Ondek will have created a new way to deliver a vaccine to the body through the wall of the stomach.

"Hopefully we can make something so benign and safe and easy to produce that we will replace many of the vaccines that require injection," Dr Marshall said.

"You would take it as a couple of tablets over three or four days or it might be in a six-pack of mini-yoghurts ... so you could potentially sell your flu vaccine through supermarkets."

I didn't suggest sales through supermarkets. The doctor did. That is why I questioned how it would be regulated. If I can buy a flu vaccine at the supermarket the same way I can get a shot at Wal-Mart, then it's not just done at the doctor's office. If someone wants to get a shot, a spray, eat a snack, use a roll-on deodorant, put on lotion or whatever to get their vaccine, that's fine. I would just hope that measures are in place to keep people from potentially injuring themselves because I have seen people who administer shots not know what they're doing both in and out of the doctor's office. Some otc medicines used to be available only by prescription.

This could be the beginning of vaccines available in food form, but nowhere did I suggest that when this comes out Suzie Q could pick up her MMR or DTaP in the frozen food section. I commented based on the section in the article that didn't bother to expand on being available in supermarkets which can mean any person wanting the vaccine available (in this case, a flu vaccine) can just pick it up and take it home without having to finish all the medication in front of an administrator. Considering all the people who have posted about how they didn't want someone administering a flu vaccine to their children, easy accessibility would become a real concern.

Anyway, I'm finished here.
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#26 of 26 Old 12-13-2009, 12:52 PM
 
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Since teenagers don't tend to buy their snacks from the medicine aisle of the pharmacy, I think you're okay (unless of course big pharma has been covering up the mass killings!!!!!!!!!!! Eeeek!)
In some parts of the country, Sudafed and other OTC's are sold from behind the counter and the customer needs to show their identification in order to buy because these meds are abused for themselves and their ingredients in making illicit drugs.
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