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Old 12-20-2009, 09:32 PM
 
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There was a gamble in vaccinating her as well. Not expressing disagreement with your decision, only making sure that is clear. I still have a hard time believing any truly researched or sane person could do every vaccine on the schedule, but apparently you have and you seem sane.
The chance of harm was minimal. I've got nearly 5 years of personal research to back me on my choices. Calling someone insaine or uneducated for choosing differently is ignorance in itself. Of course I am sane, and VERY well educated. I also have a child who CAN die from something as simple as the Chicken Pox, and who did nearly die from Rota virus (can't spell it right) I watched my child on deaths door more then once in the first 18 months of her life. I choose to vaccinate her knowing it increased her chances at living. For the record she never even had so much as a small fever or any other type of reactions to the vaccines. I would no sooner tell a non vaxer that they should change their views, but some respect needs to be shown to BOTH sides.

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I believe you meant that old friend of ours....Dr. Mendelsohn who wrote
How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor - a very good read!

My only concern is the age of that book, and some of the UNSAFE recomendations in it, like giving a baby or child Asprin I had a real hard time taking the book seriously with such dangerous advice right there.

Kimberly : momma to Karrigan Kayla : and wife of Kevin
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:17 PM
 
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My only concern is the age of that book, and some of the UNSAFE recomendations in it, like giving a baby or child Asprin I had a real hard time taking the book seriously with such dangerous advice right there.
Dr. Mendelsohn does not recommend giving anyone aspirin in How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor, and speaks to the risks of using aspirin that he first became aware of when he witnessed aspirin intoxication as a resident in 1955.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:15 PM
 
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Dr. Mendelsohn does not recommend giving anyone aspirin in How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor, and speaks to the risks of using aspirin that he first became aware of when he witnessed aspirin intoxication as a resident in 1955.
Not in the copy I have. Unless its an earlier publication and he's since changed that aspect of the book.

Kimberly : momma to Karrigan Kayla : and wife of Kevin
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:31 PM
 
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Dr. Mendelsohn does not recommend giving anyone aspirin in How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor, and speaks to the risks of using aspirin that he first became aware of when he witnessed aspirin intoxication as a resident in 1955.
I have an older used copy of this book, and he does NOT recommend giving aspirin, or any other fever reducers. This is the book that first introduced me the concept of not using those things, because it certainly wasn't from our pediatrician.
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:46 PM
 
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He does not recommend asprin OR acetaminophen ever. He believed that fever had a purpose.

He wrote that book after ten years of warnings about asprin and Reye's syndrome. He would never have done that. He warned about acetaminophen constantly after the 1982 poisonings that occurred connected with Tylenol® and potassium cyanide. http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/t...ers/index.html

He did recommend a drop of whiskey topically for teething pain. Is that what you object to?
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Old 12-21-2009, 04:41 AM
 
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I'm so sorry you were pressured!!

Be persistent with your DH and SHOW him the research and statistics! I'm young too, I am 21 and have a 1yr old DD and I am 5wks pregnant. My DD has been fully vaxed through 9m and she actually has her 1yr appt tomorrow and won't be getting ANY shots at all. I shamefully didn't do the research adequately and after a severely traumatic birth where I almost lost my life, I wasn't in a state of mind to fight with DH over vaccines. Since then, I have researched my butt off and talked with DH and we've decide to skip quite a few, and delay the rest until right before her entry into school at age 5.

hippie.gif Hi, I'm Amber

Ava {12.20.08}  Levi {8.19.10}  Aspen  {EDD 7.21.13}

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Old 12-21-2009, 03:00 PM
 
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Not in the copy I have. Unless its an earlier publication and he's since changed that aspect of the book.
The copyright for my book is 1984 and he has been dead for several years now, so, no changes.

I checked every reference made to aspirin in his book and he talks about what other doctors recommend, or what is typically recommended, but does not, himself, recommend aspirin. Support of giving aspirin to children and infants would result in a completely different book.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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Old 12-21-2009, 03:27 PM
 
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Not in the copy I have. Unless its an earlier publication and he's since changed that aspect of the book.
I think you're mistaken. Check your copy. I have a very early copy and he stresses to NOT use aspirin.

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Old 12-21-2009, 03:36 PM
 
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[QUOTE=KimberlyD0;14824547]The chance of harm was minimal. I've got nearly 5 years of personal research to back me on my choices. Calling someone insaine or uneducated for choosing differently is ignorance in itself.



Sorry, it's how I feel. You can think it ignorant if you'd like. I also find it hard to believe any truly researched and sane person could reject breastfeeding and instead use formula, or circumcise an infant for non-medical reasons.

Vaccines assault the immune system. To give them to an already vulnerable child, IMO, is asking for trouble. Again, JMO. I've researched for more than 5 years as well, and I've seen firsthand what vaccines can do to a child's brain and body.

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Old 12-21-2009, 03:53 PM
 
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perhaps Kimberly read the start of the first chapter from How to Raise a Healthy Child?

on pg 2 he says:
Quote:
If you reach the doctor instead of his answering service, his response is predictable. Chances are he'll ask, "Did you take his temperature?" Then, whatever your response, "Well, I don't think it is anything to worry about. Give him an aspirin and bring him to the office in the morning"
This hypothetical advice, from a generic doctor. An example of what parents were told when they called the doctor at night with a sick child. This was NOT the kind of advice Mendlesohn gave out.

Throughout his book, I have only read about how common it was for pediatricians to prescribe aspirin and how wrong that was.

On pg 115 - he explicitly goes into the dangers of apirin for the treatment of influenza.

on pg 138 - he writes about how he is appalled by the routine prescription of aspirin......

Anyway, not to get too OCD about it, but I really found no evidence of his endorsing the use of aspirin in his book How to Raise a Healthy Child. I own the 1984 copy. As far as I can tell, there are no other publications.

Kimberly, I appreciate your passion for putting the other side of the debate on the table. Obviously every family is making the best choice they can with the information they have. I do find it hard to understand someone following the CDC schedule if they have have thoroughly looked at the evidence put forward by both pro and anti vaccine groups. Of course, someone might look at each vaccine on the CDC schedule and find independent reasons why they would want those vaccines on schedule for their child. I am guessing such a parent would choose every available vaccine, no matter how many.

But just because the CDC says 'get these vaccines' - that is a hard reason for me to swallow.

I seriously have no problem with you of anyone following the CDC schedule. I don't vaccinate, and I have my reasons why. I have gotten beyond the point where I think there is one right answer in every situation. If you feel comfortable sharing your specific reasoning for following the CDC schedule I would be interested. Not to debate you, but to understand how we have managed to look at (what I am assuming is) the same information and come to such a different decision.

Megan, mama to her little boy (Feb2008) and introducing our little girl (Dec 2010)
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:09 PM
 
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[QUOTE=emma1325;14827271]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
The chance of harm was minimal. I've got nearly 5 years of personal research to back me on my choices. Calling someone insaine or uneducated for choosing differently is ignorance in itself.



Sorry, it's how I feel. You can think it ignorant if you'd like. I also find it hard to believe any truly researched and sane person could reject breastfeeding and instead use formula, or circumcise an infant for non-medical reasons.

Vaccines assault the immune system. To give them to an already vulnerable child, IMO, is asking for trouble. Again, JMO. I've researched for more than 5 years as well, and I've seen firsthand what vaccines can do to a child's brain and body.
I am not the one who insinuated ignorance in others

I have no issues with people choosing not to vaccinate or use an ulternate schedual. I did an ulternate schedual for my first while I was newer at the research. When DD#2 came along things changed. She CAN die from these VPD. She DID almost die from the rota virus alone. I shudder to think of her with CP, or measles. It WOULD kill her. No brainer there. Vaccinate to SAVE her life. Its a whole new ball game now, the odds are stacked against her not being vaccinated. I researched BOTH the vaccines and the deseases, its not out of fear that I make my choices, but from the knowledge of what these VPD can do to MY child. Her risks are not the same as a normal healthy child.


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Originally Posted by ema-adama View Post
perhaps Kimberly read the start of the first chapter from How to Raise a Healthy Child?

on pg 2 he says:


This hypothetical advice, from a generic doctor. An example of what parents were told when they called the doctor at night with a sick child. This was NOT the kind of advice Mendlesohn gave out.

Throughout his book, I have only read about how common it was for pediatricians to prescribe aspirin and how wrong that was.

On pg 115 - he explicitly goes into the dangers of apirin for the treatment of influenza.

on pg 138 - he writes about how he is appalled by the routine prescription of aspirin......

Anyway, not to get too OCD about it, but I really found no evidence of his endorsing the use of aspirin in his book How to Raise a Healthy Child. I own the 1984 copy. As far as I can tell, there are no other publications.

Kimberly, I appreciate your passion for putting the other side of the debate on the table. Obviously every family is making the best choice they can with the information they have. I do find it hard to understand someone following the CDC schedule if they have have thoroughly looked at the evidence put forward by both pro and anti vaccine groups. Of course, someone might look at each vaccine on the CDC schedule and find independent reasons why they would want those vaccines on schedule for their child. I am guessing such a parent would choose every available vaccine, no matter how many.

But just because the CDC says 'get these vaccines' - that is a hard reason for me to swallow.

I seriously have no problem with you of anyone following the CDC schedule. I don't vaccinate, and I have my reasons why. I have gotten beyond the point where I think there is one right answer in every situation. If you feel comfortable sharing your specific reasoning for following the CDC schedule I would be interested. Not to debate you, but to understand how we have managed to look at (what I am assuming is) the same information and come to such a different decision.
You are right. I do appologise I did miss read that quote. I was just so shocked to see that, I stopped reading that chapter. Now having looked back I stand corrected (no problem admiting it )

Regardless, while there was some good advice in the book, there was other things that didn't feel or sound right.

Also I am in Canada our vaccine schedual is a lot different then the US. My DD's wouldn't be getting the same amounts of vaccines as US children. Heb B for example is not given at birth, however she does have it. She has already had 2 life saving surgeries, one of the risks of surgery is blood lose. Which means a blood transfusions, which can mean a risk of Hep B, even with screaning. So we got it. Had to fight for the costs to be covered, but they were. She was 7 months old when she got it.

As for how I came to my choice.. I watched my child on deaths door and knew, from all the research I have done, the risks were lower with the vaccines then the VPD themselves. Especially on learning more about what she has. Good enough?

As I said no reactions. Not even a fever.

I'm not saying people should all vaccinate. FAR from it. I am saying no one is insane for vaccinating or not vaccinating. There are risks to vaccinating, and there are risks to not. For my family the risks of not vaccinating are MUCH higher. we are all doing whats right for our family. If you want to be taken seriously and not called ignorant, no matter WHAT your choice, you can't go calling others that when they make a different choice. Mutual respect goes a long way.

Kimberly : momma to Karrigan Kayla : and wife of Kevin
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