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#1 of 41 Old 12-16-2009, 11:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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so i wasnt too sure about vaccinations...but i live in america and everyone is like you have to get her vaccines b/c there is so much crap she can get in this country blah blah blah...anyways my DD had her 2 m/o check up and they said like 4 different vaccines and her father was there and I was like no I dont think she should have them and he was like no she needs them and the nurse took his side. ANYWAYS I was guilted into doing it and then my baby got wicked sick for like a week and now shes not bfing right! im so pissed. she keeps ripping off my breast which hurts wicked bad and im working on it. anyways since she got the stupid vaccines she has lost 6 oz! and im like im not giving her any more vaccines and her father and I are fighting about it wicked bad. what can I do to make him see she's not ready for all of this?! he thinks its best for her and unfortunately so does 90% of the population!!!

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#2 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 12:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by anielasmommy09 View Post
so i wasnt too sure about vaccinations...but i live in america and everyone is like you have to get her vaccines b/c there is so much crap she can get in this country blah blah blah...anyways my DD had her 2 m/o check up and they said like 4 different vaccines and her father was there and I was like no I dont think she should have them and he was like no she needs them and the nurse took his side. ANYWAYS I was guilted into doing it and then my baby got wicked sick for like a week and now shes not bfing right! im so pissed. she keeps ripping off my breast which hurts wicked bad and im working on it. anyways since she got the stupid vaccines she has lost 6 oz! and im like im not giving her any more vaccines and her father and I are fighting about it wicked bad. what can I do to make him see she's not ready for all of this?! he thinks its best for her and unfortunately so does 90% of the population!!!
I think you both need to sit down and calmly discuss why you feel the way you do about vaccines, and then agree to both research your concerns thoroughly before making any more decisions.

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#3 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 12:56 AM
 
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I think you both need to sit down and calmly discuss why you feel the way you do about vaccines, and then agree to both research your concerns thoroughly before making any more decisions.
Agreed.

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#4 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 01:25 AM
 
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she keeps ripping off my breast which hurts wicked bad and im working on it.
I have to wonder if you two don't have thrush. One time ds and I had thrush and it was exactly as you describe. It was on a weekend, so we had to go to urgent care (after trying every natural remedy with no success). The PA who saw us asked us if ds had any vaccines recently, as they can apparently cause thrush.
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#5 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 12:47 PM
 
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The nurse can say what she likes, but you still can refuse--she is not the parent and has no say. If you go to an appointment intending to refuse, and you are pressured, just say that you will make a separate appointment for vaccinations.

Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding about vax.

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices 1/18DVD, By Sherri J. TENPENNY



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

Health Sentinel Graphs

WHO GRAPH

Vaccine Injury Table


Beyond Conformity Resources Page
Do you have a quick-fire summary?

Inside Vaccines

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#6 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 12:55 PM
 
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Awesome post Emmeline.

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#7 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 01:00 PM
 
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While you and hubby do research I'd urge you to also check out "Finding Your Tribe" here on MDC to find a new healthcare provider...one that sees the value in non-vaxing.

You can also maybe find a playgroup or parents group in your area that are like minded.
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#8 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 01:07 PM
 
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DH and I had/have a similar situation (although I don't let the kids get anything I don't want them to have)

We agree to disagree, but have come to common ground.

What I am saying is you can have different point of views and still do what is best for your babe in your opinion. Even with all the evidence DH has seen in regards to vaccines, he still believes they are important. He also respects the fact that I am not going to do anything that may harm the kids.

That said, it is still very hard to sit and have a civil conversation about vaccines.

Your not alone, do your research and take a deep breath.
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#9 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thanks guys that helps alot! i think i will have her finish her hepatitis ones and thats it. the hepatitis ones prevent it right? maybe when shes older i'll do polio...idk yet. all the advice is great and much appreciated im a young mom whose just trying to do the best I can for my baby and it tough to know whats best lol

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#10 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 01:31 PM
 
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http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/...nt?oid=1804743

Here's a good article to have him read. There's also a Gary Null video on Youtube when he goes before a special committee (can't remember the name, but it's him at a desk with a microphone) and lays out the problems with mandatory vaccines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3XlJB7J5-o

Tell him that most vaccine avoiders (according to several articles) are educated professionals. Ask him how he'd feel if she got sick from something that he OK'd injecting into her. Tell him that your mommy senses are tingling and that these vaccines are not ok with you.

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#11 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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so i just read the hep b is not recommended for newborns anymore but shes already had two should i bother with the third? her doc obvs did not know babies shouldnt get that... i feel like i've messed up really bad. i got pregnant by surprise at 21. i dont have a mom so no guidance there. i read alot of things on what to do for your baby. i had a drug free birth for her and i wear her and do everything i feel she needs but i never even thought of vaccines! now i feel horrible. when i try to read up on them it all looks like gibberish to me....idk how to understand these things. i'll check out the websites above to see if i can figure it out lol thanks again guys

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#12 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 02:01 PM
 
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Try not to feel bad for your past choices... looks like you have been doing a lot right (babywearing, drug free birth) so far so try to concentrate on that!

Just take your time and do some more research here on MDC about the vaxes...and you can skip the well baby visits until you are certain on what you would like to do. It's a learning process for us all! I feel like I learn something new about parenting everyday...and I've been a mom for a while now.
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#13 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thanks for the video emme that definately helped!!!

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#14 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 02:30 PM
 
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There are some good books out there too that you can read so you and your DH can have more objective info.
The Vaccine Book by Robert Sears
Vaccinations A Thoughtful Parents Guide by Aviva Jill Romm

another is something like What doctors don't tell you about vaccinations....not sure of the author

You may decide to skip, delay, or group the vax differently based on what you read. But at least you can both have more information to make your decisions instead of just "they should get them"

Good luck

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#15 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 02:43 PM
 
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thanks guys that helps alot! i think i will have her finish her hepatitis ones and thats it. the hepatitis ones prevent it right? maybe when shes older i'll do polio...idk yet. all the advice is great and much appreciated im a young mom whose just trying to do the best I can for my baby and it tough to know whats best lol
Infants are given Hep B on the assumption that they will be promiscuous, drug using teens that are unlikely to go to the Dr. for vaccinations--not because infants are of particular risk.

Answer those questions posted above for yourself and watch the Tenpenny lecture.

You need to be prepared for the potential consequences of either choice; whether you do vax and your child has a vaccine reaction, or you don't and your child contracts a VAD (which can happen to a vaxed child, but then everyone reassure you that you did all you could to prevent it).

It can be difficult with a first child because people may pressure you to do something because "you don't know anything yet"; you can always vaccinate later but you cannot take them out once they have been given.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#16 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 04:40 PM
 
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Infants are given Hep B on the assumption that they will be promiscuous, drug using teens that are unlikely to go to the Dr. for vaccinations--not because infants are of particular risk.
I was of the understanding that it was the assumption that the mothers were promiscuous drug users who infect their babies at birth. They assume that the mothers are lying about their lifestyle, and need to vaccinate all babies because they can't tell who's infected or not. Of course, they have "mandatory" and sometimes downright misleading or misrepresentative prenatal testing for STDs, so I don't quite get how they come to that conclusion.
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#17 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 04:56 PM
 
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I was of the understanding that it was the assumption that the mothers were promiscuous drug users who infect their babies at birth. They assume that the mothers are lying about their lifestyle, and need to vaccinate all babies because they can't tell who's infected or not. Of course, they have "mandatory" and sometimes downright misleading or misrepresentative prenatal testing for STDs, so I don't quite get how they come to that conclusion.
I've specifically read that theprimarymotivation for Hep B infant vaccination is a preemtive strike against the future bad behavior of these babies. STD screening was part of my pre-natal bloodwork; I think Hep B is included in that as I've also read that hospitals are concerned about mothers who arrive without medical records, or are not likely to have had pre-natal care. This is just what I recall reading in passing; I don't have anything to verify this against.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#18 of 41 Old 12-17-2009, 05:04 PM
 
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In Canada Hep B is given to preteens. Grade 5 or 6. I'm guessing it's incase they end up engaging in risky behaviour. If you want Hep B for your baby you actually have to get your doctor to agree that your child is at risk and needs it in order to get health care to cover the cost.

Wife to DH, Mom to my Intact Boys DS1: Born 02 Pain Med Free Hospital Birth, BF'ed for 9 Months, Partially Vax'd DS2: Born 06 via UC, BF'ed 3 years 10 months, and UnVax'd
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#19 of 41 Old 12-18-2009, 03:46 AM
 
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when i try to read up on them it all looks like gibberish to me....idk how to understand these things.
It's as complicated as you want it to be. If you want to make it easy, make a decision to not vaccinate her again, for anything. There are a lot of educated parents who have put many, many hours of research into vaccines, who have decided to completely stop vaccinating. You do not need to finish any shots.

Practice saying, "No vaccines today" before you see the doctor again. Does her father have the legal right to make medical decisions for her? If not, don't worry about convincing him. You could even tell him she got the vaccines, if he doesn't have a legal right to access the medical records.

If you decide to skip some or all vaccines, your life will be easier if you do not discuss that with anyone in real life. It's nobody's business but yours.
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#20 of 41 Old 12-18-2009, 08:48 PM
 
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so i just read the hep b is not recommended for newborns anymore but shes already had two should i bother with the third?
NO. The less poison you inject into her system the healthier she'll be. Have your dh come on here and ask all the questions he has. It is good to ask questions. He will be shocked when/if he finds out the truth behind vaccines and what is driving that mob.


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i had a drug free birth for her and i wear her and do everything i feel she needs but i never even thought of vaccines! now i feel horrible.
Sounds to me like you are using your gut instinct. There is nothing as powerful as that. Stick with it at all costs. It will guide you.


We are a non-vaccine family and all our children are healthy. There are 4 grandchildren that all are super healthy, no allergies, no asthma, no problems whatsoever. We had cp just a while back and guess what? The lo wouldn't have even noticed it except he had to stay home from school a few days which btw, made him sad.

Avoid all vaccines. Continue to nurse and keep your baby close to you. Tell the father you'll take all the responsibility for any sickness, that will make him more secure with you not vaccinating. He will be thankful eventually.

What type of guy is your dh? Is he open minded or totally blinded by mainstream politics, media, info, etc.?
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#21 of 41 Old 12-19-2009, 10:10 AM
 
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It's as complicated as you want it to be. If you want to make it easy, make a decision to not vaccinate her again, for anything. There are a lot of educated parents who have put many, many hours of research into vaccines, who have decided to completely stop vaccinating. You do not need to finish any shots.

Practice saying, "No vaccines today" before you see the doctor again. Does her father have the legal right to make medical decisions for her? If not, don't worry about convincing him. You could even tell him she got the vaccines, if he doesn't have a legal right to access the medical records.

If you decide to skip some or all vaccines, your life will be easier if you do not discuss that with anyone in real life. It's nobody's business but yours.
There are also MANY who are very well educated who make the choice to deley or vax on schedual. The vaccine issue is complex and there is a lot of conflicting information on both sides, there is a lot of biases on both side. Someone who doesn't vaccinate for whatever reason is going to support not vaxing, someone who does vax will say vaccinate. In the end you need to make your own educated choice, not a choice on emotions alone, or something your pushed into, but a well thought and researched approch.

I am a VERY firm believer in doing ones OWN research.

I would say you and your partner need to sit down and talk about this. He needs to be able to voice WHY he feels this way, you need to voice why you feel how you do, then you need to educate yourselves together. Its not about who's right or wrong, but whats right for your ENTIRE family.

Plus if you feel this strongly you'll want the support of science, and information behind you so you can stand behind that choice and not appear to be reacting from fear alone. Its hard to respect the choices of someone who is not researched in a topic and reacts from fear. That means for BOTH sides.

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#22 of 41 Old 12-19-2009, 11:22 AM
 
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It's grossly unfair that you got caught off guard at that appointment. You and your DH both have the noble intention of doing what's best for your baby. You need to hash this issue out and be on the same page at your appointments. Emmeline provided an excellent primer for a discussion with your DH, Anielasmommy.

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It can be difficult with a first child because people may pressure you to do something because "you don't know anything yet"; you can always vaccinate later but you cannot take them out once they have been given.
This was precisely my experience with my first! It's been quite liberating to have a second baby. I've gained more confidence to draw some boundaries and trust my gut.

The trick is to find a provider like my own (LOTS of word of mouth, and post in Find Your Tribe) who respects parental autonomy in this matter.


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If you decide to skip some or all vaccines, your life will be easier if you do not discuss that with anyone in real life. It's nobody's business but yours.
AMEN!

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In Canada Hep B is given to preteens. Grade 5 or 6. I'm guessing it's incase they end up engaging in risky behaviour. If you want Hep B for your baby you actually have to get your doctor to agree that your child is at risk and needs it in order to get health care to cover the cost.
Oh wow! Imagine how much the U.S. could save if we adopted this commonsense approach. As you're probably aware, there's a debate raging here about health care costs and how to cut them. Unfortunately, our bought-off politicians would probably rather see Facism take hold than anything resembling the Canadian model of health care.

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#23 of 41 Old 12-19-2009, 04:38 PM
 
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so i just read the hep b is not recommended for newborns anymore but shes already had two should i bother with the third? her doc obvs did not know babies shouldnt get that... i feel like i've messed up really bad. i got pregnant by surprise at 21. i dont have a mom so no guidance there. i read alot of things on what to do for your baby. i had a drug free birth for her and i wear her and do everything i feel she needs but i never even thought of vaccines! now i feel horrible. when i try to read up on them it all looks like gibberish to me....idk how to understand these things. i'll check out the websites above to see if i can figure it out lol thanks again guys
No reason to get the 3rd hep b just because she already got 2 of them.

My experience: My daughter got all 3 hep b shots in the series. Then later, when we had titers run on most diseases, she wasn't even immune to hep b. So we took the risks of the vaccine for nothing.

AND, young children have very, very little chance of even coming in contact with hep b. Unless you or your partner is already infected with the disease, I wouldn't even consider it.

Loving mother, Devoted Wife
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#24 of 41 Old 12-19-2009, 04:46 PM
 
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Plus if you feel this strongly you'll want the support of science, and information behind you so you can stand behind that choice and not appear to be reacting from fear alone. Its hard to respect the choices of someone who is not researched in a topic and reacts from fear. That means for BOTH sides.
Science doesn't truly support either side, pro or anti-vax, since there exists no unbiased, long term, wide-scale studies comparing vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated individuals. The studies that do exist, on both sides, are weak.


I can understand how someone might come to the decision to selectively vaccinate after researching the available information, but I cannot fathom any truly researched and sane person doing every shot on the CDC schedule.

My feelings on the issue is that since there is no proof that vaccines are safe (through valid long-term research) the only option for my family is to default to the biological norm, which is a non-vaccinated state. Same reason I wouldn't formula feed or circumcise.

ETA: Kimberly, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with anything you said, only jumping off from your statement regarding scientific support.

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#25 of 41 Old 12-19-2009, 06:21 PM
 
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In Canada Hep B is given to preteens. Grade 5 or 6. I'm guessing it's incase they end up engaging in risky behaviour. If you want Hep B for your baby you actually have to get your doctor to agree that your child is at risk and needs it in order to get health care to cover the cost.
In BC they now give HepB to newborns. Its in the rotation now and I imagine the rest of Canada will follow.

Me(33), Mama to a crazy DD (6), Wife to a wonderful mountain man(32) BF my babe for 2 years.
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#26 of 41 Old 12-19-2009, 06:28 PM
 
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Science doesn't truly support either side, pro or anti-vax, since there exists no unbiased, long term, wide-scale studies comparing vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated individuals. The studies that do exist, on both sides, are weak.


I can understand how someone might come to the decision to selectively vaccinate after researching the available information, but I cannot fathom any truly researched and sane person doing every shot on the CDC schedule.

My feelings on the issue is that since there is no proof that vaccines are safe (through valid long-term research) the only option for my family is to default to the biological norm, which is a non-vaccinated state. Same reason I wouldn't formula feed or circumcise.

ETA: Kimberly, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with anything you said, only jumping off from your statement regarding scientific support.
Hi you know one now. When I found out what my DD#2 has and learned what HER risks were for not being vaxed we vaxed her. Not worth her life to take the gamble.

What I ment with the science though was that you need, at the very least, sound like you know what your talking about, not use scare tactics or second hand stories (for both sides)

ALL the science I've seen supports MY choice for my children, my interpretation of that science is just different them some, especially here lol.

Kimberly : momma to Karrigan Kayla : and wife of Kevin
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#27 of 41 Old 12-19-2009, 06:37 PM
 
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I just want to say, always come to your partner with the intention of finding a solution, not being right. Saying something like, I know you have dd's best interests at heart, adn I hope you realize I do too. We need to remember that and talk about this and come up with a solution we both feel good about. making a rushed decisions is not cool. also, ememline (or some such... love her info don't knwo her SN) will come along with a good jumping off point. Find out which diseases/vaxes are coming up at the next appointment. Then talk about each disease and the vaccine for it together. don't shove a bunch of research in his face and expect him to read it. men just gnerally aren't wired that way. it's not for lack of caring it's just how they work.

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#28 of 41 Old 12-20-2009, 02:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
Hi you know one now. When I found out what my DD#2 has and learned what HER risks were for not being vaxed we vaxed her. Not worth her life to take the gamble.

What I ment with the science though was that you need, at the very least, sound like you know what your talking about, not use scare tactics or second hand stories (for both sides)

ALL the science I've seen supports MY choice for my children, my interpretation of that science is just different them some, especially here lol.

There was a gamble in vaccinating her as well. Not expressing disagreement with your decision, only making sure that is clear. I still have a hard time believing any truly researched or sane person could do every vaccine on the schedule, but apparently you have and you seem sane.

Loving mother, Devoted Wife
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#29 of 41 Old 12-20-2009, 04:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AnnR33 View Post
What doctors don't tell you about vaccinations....not sure of the author
I believe you meant that old friend of ours....Dr. Mendelsohn who wrote
How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor - a very good read!
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#30 of 41 Old 12-20-2009, 06:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mysticmomma View Post
always come to your partner with the intention of finding a solution, not being right.
I just wanted to say, thank you for this good advice, mysticmomma. This is good to remember for all our interactions in general, with our spouse, our kids, anyone really. I am writing this down on an index card and putting it on my fridge right now. This just really spoke to me right now and I needed reminding of it.

To the OP, I can say that my DH would likely do whatever the doctors say do, if it was all up to him. But, I'm the mom, and he leaves these decisions up to me. I would do whatever you have to do to get along with him and get him to work with you and not against you. If you set it up into an argument, it may cause him to dig in his heels more. Not saying you should go along with anything or compromise in any way, just that if you can make it so that he knows you are both on the same side, as PP said above, then he may be more likely to leave it up to you.

If that doesn't work, I would put it in his lap and say, "when you can bring me the proof that whichever vaccine you are debating is safe and effective, then we can talk more".
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