Are all vaccines bad? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 19 Old 03-26-2010, 02:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Moms,
My dd, 6mos, had her first vaccine today - Hib. It was so hard to watch her face when she felt the shock of pain and my stomach still twists to think about it!

Anyway, I chose that vaccine (with my ped who has her own "low-risk vaccine sched") because I believed it was only good - protection from various illnesses - with very little risk of something going wrong.

What I'm wondering is (and I've read a lot about vaccines in books, but never quite found an answer to this question) are all vaccines generally bad for little ones? I'm not quite sure how to say this, so it will sound a bit unintelligible....even if my daughter does not get autism, or die, or even get a fever, is she made a little "less smart" or less neurologically developed, etc when she gets vaccines?

I just feel this strong desire not to vax - it just felt sooo unnatural for me - but all my research points more toward selective & delayed vaccinations. What do you think?

Any thoughts are appreciated! Thanks!!!
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#2 of 19 Old 03-26-2010, 04:16 AM
 
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I am one of those who chose not to vaccinate. At all.
I wish you would not to, but don't want to impose
Maybe this article would be interesting

50 Reasons to Protect Infants from Vaccines

http://www.garynull.com/GNthisArticle.php?article=465
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#3 of 19 Old 03-26-2010, 06:52 AM
 
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No, they're not.
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#4 of 19 Old 03-26-2010, 09:31 AM
 
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No, they're not.
Which are the "good" ones, then, if some aren't "bad"? Do you have proof of this?

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#5 of 19 Old 03-26-2010, 12:52 PM
 
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Welcome....

The thing is you can't get a right or wrong answer to your question.

The answer will be a very personal one for each person that responds based on their own personal child/situation. For me, I believe that all vaccines have negative consequences. This means that I feel that they will have a direct negative impact on the immune system. That doesn't mean that I think all children will have horrible reactions, get autism or die. But I believe that they all do influence the immune system, in a negative way which can have subtle and in many cases hard to detect effects which are often difficult to say are definitively caused or influenced by vaccines (ie allergies, autoimmune disease, asthma). Some of the vaccines I think are useless and do not work. Some I think may work, but will cause bigger problems (ie serotype replacement). All my research has led me to believe that no vaccine's benefit would outweigh the risk for my DS right now.
There are too many unknowns in vaccines. They have never been proven to be safe, despite what the public has been told. Most of the ingredients are ASSUMED to be safe, but have not been extensively studied, or have not been studied in combination with each other. And some of them are Known toxins, but their use is justified because of the amount being used. To me this logic is ridiculous. Just because something may not kill you in small amounts, doesn't mean it can't have other more subtle negative effects. Scientists really have no idea how these substances effect the immune system as immuology is a fairly new and emerging science. I understand the WHY of vaccines, I inderstand their allure, I want my child to be protected from certain diseases too, but at what cost? For me those costs are potentially too high.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#6 of 19 Old 03-26-2010, 01:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by yara1 View Post
I am one of those who chose not to vaccinate. At all.
I wish you would not to, but don't want to impose
Maybe this article would be interesting

50 Reasons to Protect Infants from Vaccines

http://www.garynull.com/GNthisArticle.php?article=465
Great link! I saved this one!

To OP:

I am a non-vaxer and I think that while you are correct that your child may not suffer a severe reaction to a vaccine, I believe that with every shot she might be just a little less healthy.

I ahev some friends who vax and some who don't. HANDS DOWN the non-vaxed kids are brighter, smarter, more alert, and healthier. They look like they glow...very bright eyes, shiny hair, no circles under the eyes...they just look better. I should note too that the diets of those children are also very healthy so I"m sure that helps. Most of the non vaxers I know also don't allow processed foods or chemicals in foods and tend to eat wholesome natural foods.

Hope this helps.
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#7 of 19 Old 03-26-2010, 01:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Marnica View Post
Welcome....

The thing is you can't get a right or wrong answer to your question.

The answer will be a very personal one for each person that responds based on their own personal child/situation. For me, I believe that all vaccines have negative consequences. This means that I feel that they will have a direct negative impact on the immune system. That doesn't mean that I think all children will have horrible reactions, get autism or die. But I believe that they all do influence the immune system, in a negative way which can have subtle and in many cases hard to detect effects which are often difficult to say are definitively caused or influenced by vaccines (ie allergies, autoimmune disease, asthma). Some of the vaccines I think are useless and do not work. Some I think may work, but will cause bigger problems (ie serotype replacement). All my research has led me to believe that no vaccine's benefit would outweigh the risk for my DS right now.
There are too many unknowns in vaccines. They have never been proven to be safe, despite what the public has been told. Most of the ingredients are ASSUMED to be safe, but have not been extensively studied, or have not been studied in combination with each other. And some of them are Known toxins, but their use is justified because of the amount being used. To me this logic is ridiculous. Just because something may not kill you in small amounts, doesn't mean it can't have other more subtle negative effects. Scientists really have no idea how these substances effect the immune system as immuology is a fairly new and emerging science. I understand the WHY of vaccines, I inderstand their allure, I want my child to be protected from certain diseases too, but at what cost? For me those costs are potentially too high.

we too haven't found a strong enough reason to vax our kids (or ourselves). Yes, I think there are SOME benefits, but for us, they aren't worth the potential side effects. We also strive for a fairly healthy diet and feel that this goes a long way towards disease prevention/immune support.

Mama to Ahnna-Bella (Dec 05) dust.gif, Harrison (Oct 08) kid.gif, and Kellan Wilder (Jan '12) baby.gif

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#8 of 19 Old 03-26-2010, 04:14 PM
 
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I do believe that they are all bad, and there's a researcher out there who agrees. A Dr. Moulden in Canada agrees, and says he has found proof that each time a vaccine is administered the body has a mild stroke. I haven't seen the proof, so I don't know how accurate that is, but I honestly haven't seen anything prove to me that it's healthy to inject the ingredients in vaccines into a human body. For me the real question is not are vaccines bad, but is the disease they are to protect from worse than the vaccine. So far for me that answer has been no. (Of course having a dd permenantly damamged from either the HIB or Prevnar vax didn't help sell me on them either!)
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#9 of 19 Old 03-26-2010, 05:00 PM
 
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I think a lot of it depends on how you define "bad". For me, yes, vaccines are all bad.

They all introduce toxins and other junk into the human body in a completely unnatural way that surpasses all of our natural defense systems.

They never seem to quite "get them right"- first it's one vax, then it's three, then it's lifetime boosters, then there's a recall, then they find that lots of vaxed people still get the disease, then it causes other issues that need a new vax (think chicken pox then shingles vaxes). It's a never ending cycle where my child is the guinea pig.

It seems like for every vaccine that is introduced, there is another issue that arises. Serotype replacement, super bugs, adults getting illnesses that children should get, lack of natural boosters, etc.

I guess I'm not all that afraid of dd getting sick. She gets sick, I help her get better, we move on. I realize that there are rare exceptions to this "rule", but I don't live my life afraid of the rare exceptions to the rules. If I did, I would never drive my car, leave my house, eat any food, take a shower, walk down stairs, etc. Instead, we take normal precautions with life... wear seat belts, eat healthy foods with lots of fruits and veggies, build our immune systems naturally... and live!
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#10 of 19 Old 03-26-2010, 05:03 PM
 
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I do not think vaccines are bad in theory. They do prevent disease but they also cause reactions. I don't give them to my children because I don't trust the people that mandate them and make them. I figure that any vaccine that goes in my baby's arm is going straight to their brain. No thanks on aluminum and all of the other chemicals going to my baby's growing brain. I would never let my baby eat a melted can. There are too many parents with vaccine damaged children for my comfort level. They know their own kids and know if they were different after a series of shots. My ped said the risk of getting damaged from a vaccine preventable disease when you are not vaxed is the same risk as getting the shot and having a serious reaction. I could never look at my trusting baby, full of love for me and jab them with chemicals that they probably would be fine without. It all comes down to what you can live with. There are so many people with kids who never walked or talked again after a bad shot. I don't hear much or see chat rooms about kids who caught these so called dangerous diseases.
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#11 of 19 Old 03-26-2010, 08:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by beachgirl View Post
Hi Moms,
are all vaccines generally bad for little ones? I'm not quite sure how to say this, so it will sound a bit unintelligible....even if my daughter does not get autism, or die, or even get a fever, is she made a little "less smart" or less neurologically developed, etc when she gets vaccines?
No, in fact all vaccines on balance are more beneficial than harmful, which is why we give them to children.
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#12 of 19 Old 03-26-2010, 10:12 PM
 
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I agree that most kids do not get serious reactions. There is no doubt that the shots you get will protect you from the diseases they are made for for the most part. Your child is more at risk for catching a vaccine preventable disease if they are not vaxed. My Ped said they do not know the effects of the current vaccine schedule and they won't know until the kids are grown and it will be 20 years from now. A small risk of a serious vaccine injury is small unless it is your child that has one. It all depends on the risks you are willing to take. I would rather not risk the reaction. In Dr. Sears Vaccine book which is not one sided says that if you wait until age 2 to vax that you might as well not vax or play catch up because the risk of them getting hurt from a vaccine preventable disease is so small. Everybody has a tolerance of what they can handle
as far as vaccines. Some can take as many as are given to them and some have a reaction off the third set. I just know there are thousands of parents in court right now trying to get some justice for their injured children. Sanjay Gupta said on CNN that it would be foolish to think a one size fits all vaccine schedule is the only way to go. Some people have problems. Dr. Oz who I like would not give the H1N1 vax to his kids. More people are asking questions and that is a good thing. Yes, if you had a scale of people who are hurt or not hurt by vaccines the people who are not hurt would be greater. What happens if you kid was one of the kids who has a terrible reaction ? I think spacing is a must and reading a lot is the only way to make an informed decision. Informed decisions is the only answer I see that is fair to our children who have no say.
Philia
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#13 of 19 Old 03-26-2010, 11:08 PM
 
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Bad? In some cases.

Imperative for health? No.

I can see why they are pushed from a public health stand point. Public health cant make me breastfeed, they cant make me feed my kid whole healthy foods, and they cant make sure my kid isnt exposed to toxins, but they can do a one size fits all vaccine schedule that reaches every kid. So thats all they got really, and they really like to push it, because its a quick fix and not a way of life.

Me(33), Mama to a crazy DD (6), Wife to a wonderful mountain man(32) BF my babe for 2 years.
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#14 of 19 Old 03-27-2010, 08:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BarnMomma View Post

I ahev some friends who vax and some who don't. HANDS DOWN the non-vaxed kids are brighter, smarter, more alert, and healthier. They look like they glow...very bright eyes, shiny hair, no circles under the eyes...they just look better. .


Hmmm...and you know without hesitation that all the children who are vaxed are not as smart or bright as those who are unvaxed? Do you know for sure- without a doubt- what they're un/vaxed status is?

This is a very dangerous assumption.

I know children who are vaxed who are perfectly bright, healthy and alert children and unvaxed children who are not as bright or healthy or alert. You just.don't.know.

Sheila, mother to William and Min Hee, wife of David
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#15 of 19 Old 03-27-2010, 09:07 AM
 
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I have a vaxed daughter that is extremely bright and healthy. Let's not make sweeping generalizations!
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#16 of 19 Old 03-27-2010, 09:22 AM
 
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I have a vaxed daughter that is extremely bright and healthy. Let's not make sweeping generalizations!
Yes please.

Niether of my children are vaxxed, and both have huge dark circles under there eyes. its called genetics.

To the OP, For me, its is a matter of pros versus cons. I am not comfortable trusting Big Pharma to follow all the guidelines in production. I am also not comfortable with the ingredients in them. (for good reason, DS2 has food allergies, when no one else in my family does. Good thing I decided NOT to vax, lord knows what would have happened to him)

Plus I am way more comfortable knowing we could handle any of the childhood disease, and for some have, but the fear of the unknown with reactions is just to much for me to bare.
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#17 of 19 Old 03-27-2010, 09:28 AM
 
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IMO, vaccines have simply not been proven safe. And you know what? The manufacturers KNOW that. But, they're not worried - the US gov gave them immunity in the mid 80s. SO, why do they care if their product hurst/kills kids? Wheres their incentive to make sure vaxes are safe?? They have none. All they have is incentive to push as many new vaxes onto the market as possible, and get as many of them as possible mandated for school so that they make billions in profits. They have zero incentive on safety. So, I don't trust them.
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#18 of 19 Old 03-27-2010, 10:45 AM
 
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For us, the risks of vaccines and their various reactions was not worth it.

I know two children IRL who were brain damaged from vaccine reactions. Perfectly normal babies to brain damaged. I also have a friend whose son had a hideous amount of 'make up shots' in one doctor visit. Absolutely normal, all milestones etc, that visit to the doctor, hideous fever etc..dx with autism a couple months later.
We skipped them.

here's a link from resources that might help:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ad.php?t=57794

Check out New Moon on my Astrology Site

http://tracyastrosalon.blogspot.com/

 

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#19 of 19 Old 03-27-2010, 12:14 PM
 
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I don't believe all vaxes are bad or all are good. I also don't believe all vaxes work effectively or are necessary. I think you need to go through the shots one by one & weigh the risks/benefits of not vaxing vs. the risk/benefits of vaxing, as well as the proven effectiveness of each shot, your personal situation & your family's ethics (re: ingredients for ex.), etc. I originally did this with the intent of selective/delayed vaxing but we've ended up not vaxing, at least for now & possibly forever (I'm continually researching). As a group, I was not necessarily 100% against vaxes (though I do believe more in letting your body do what it was designed to do), but when I went through each shot individually, I wasn't "for" any of them (although DS has had 2 doses of 1 shot, which we would probably choose to forego with any future children). I also feel it's always a trade-off... you *might* get better protection against the diseases you vax against but the vax itself may leave you more susceptible to other diseases and compromise the immune system. Theoretically I could see how a compromised immune system could lead to more neurological/developmental issues, but I don't think we can make a sweeping assumption that vaccines in general will make your kid less smart/healthy/etc. I would also take care to research each brand of vaccine that you choose to use. Each brand is designed a little differently, contains different ingredients, etc. even though they might be used for the exact same diseases.

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