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#1 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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i dont remember all the rules and stuff, i dont think i can post a link.
but just go to the yahoo homepage, its there.

we sure cant have anyone speaking truth now can we?

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#2 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 12:28 PM
 
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we could if that truth wasn't fabricated His "study" wasn't as clean as it should have been. Not even remotely. No one can duplicate his results either, because he made sure the results would show what he wanted.

I feel the same about anyone who does what he did. he lost his credibility and I personally think he did more harm to the anti-vax movement then good because its been proved that he lied.

Even if what he says is true, the way he got there was dihonest and that means there is no credibility to it.

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#3 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 12:47 PM
 
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i dont remember all the rules and stuff, i dont think i can post a link.
but just go to the yahoo homepage, its there.

we sure cant have anyone speaking truth now can we?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100524/..._autism_doctor
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#4 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 01:27 PM
 
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I wonder whats going threw the mind of non-vax mammas on here? Do you feel betrayed? Do you still stand by your decisions?

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#5 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 01:28 PM
 
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I wonder whats going threw the mind of non-vax mammas on here? Do you feel betrayed? Do you still stand by your decisions?

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#6 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 01:32 PM
 
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my decision NOT to vax has nothing to do with this doctor. It has to do with personal experience and a long history of reactions in my family as well as tons of research.

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#7 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 01:33 PM
 
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I've been following this case closely.

I think the judgement is a travesty.

What was done was to take a few minor paperwork problems and blow them up into a huge scandal.

Compare, for example, to the business as usual response to Merck actually publishing fake medical journals to promote Vioxx.

Can we say double standard?

The main point of the insane way this whole thing has been handled was to intimidate any other doctors who might speak up for children or anyone else with vaccine injuries in the U.K.

Just my opinion, of course.
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#8 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 01:37 PM
 
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Just wanted to add that I doubt very many parents decided against vaccines based on this case. Most of the people I know have done a fair amount of research from multiple angles before making up their minds.

Has anyone heard of Jayne Donavan (sp?)? She was also hauled up for a vaccine thing, but she managed to convince the panel that she had her facts right.

Now, here is the interesting thing. Before and during her "trial" there was lots of nasty negative publicity about her. When she was let off and vindicated, except for a couple of back-page items there was no publicity at all.

Press control in the U.K. is pretty good I think. For drug company interests.
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#9 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 01:44 PM
 
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What was done was to take a few minor paperwork problems and blow them up into a huge scandal.
I wouldn't call taking blood from kids at his son's birthday party w/o parental consent a minor paperwork problem. Have non-reproducable results is the hallmark of bad science, not a paperwork problem. It seems to me that Britain is taking issue with the way the study was produced, not its results. I think that it's possible that later on a study could be found to produce the same results. Only that study would have been done in a proper, reproducable way. That's way Wakefield did more harm for his cause than good, IMO.

And I agree, the press is definitely more interested in sensationalism than following a story to its conclusion. I've seen that happen on many issues, though, so I don't really think a pharma conspiracy is behind it.
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#10 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 02:02 PM
 
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#11 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 02:17 PM
 
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My decision not to vax had nothing to do with this guy either, but rather my research on each vaccine. And I whole heatedly stand by my decision not to vax.

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#12 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 02:23 PM
 
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We are doing a selective and delayed vaccination schedule and I absolutely promise you it has nothing to do with Wakefield. The man is not someone who I consider to be a responsible scientist. He did far more harm than good to the cause of questioning the normal US (and presumably UK, though I don't really know anything about that) vaccine schedule. I'm so, so sick of people who just point to his discrediting as "proof" that there's nothing wrong with the way we vaccinate our children: it's become an easy red herring that makes it easy-peasy to ignore the larger issues involved, and deride those with honest questions about vaccine standards and safety.

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#13 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 02:25 PM
 
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I don't feel betrayed; I never felt that Dr. Wakefield's research was a reliable source (sample size way too small - also IIRC the results could not be duplicated).

Dr. Wakefield's research has not been a primary motivator in vaccination decisions. There is a lot of quackery in the "natural" medical community, especially with respect to autism. Parents are desperate, in some cases, and mainstream medicine has little to offer. Therefore, the opportunity for quackery is present, and in some cases, exploited.

Not accusing Dr. Wakefield specifically of anything, but I'm also not surprised at the decision.
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#14 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 02:26 PM
 
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I wonder whats going threw the mind of non-vax mammas on here? Do you feel betrayed? Do you still stand by your decisions?
As if my decision to not vaccinate was based on Dr. Wakefield's information? I hadn't even heard of him until I was firm in my decision not to vaccinate.
I think the whole situation is unfortunate but it doesn't shake my beliefs one bit.
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#15 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 02:41 PM
 
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I have honestly never heard of this guy, so he obviously had no bearing on my decision to not vaccinate my children. I am very secure in my decision and I don't think there is anything that would make me question it.
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#16 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 03:01 PM
 
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We don't vax and it doesn't have anything to do with MMR and autism. I've never heard of Wakefield.

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#17 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 03:11 PM
 
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We don't vax, and our decision has little to do with the MMR/autism link. It has more to do with the loads of research we've done which revealed copious amounts of real study and information on chemicals, death and other immediate, short term and long term injury, auto-immune and neurological disorders, along with the flaw we see in the entire argument behind the effectiveness. Additionally, I am suspect of ANYTHING the gov't pushes so hard for while getting large dollars for their efforts.

With that said, I have minimally heard of Wakefield. I think it's TERRIBLY shameful that he is banned. Without knowing much about him, it seems he had plenty of peer reviewed information to make his cause worthwhile in taking a further look at...meaning, most research in the US begins with peer reviews of very small samples. With that correlation, he'd be qualified to at least ask questions before congress and the AMA/AAP!

I edited to add that I totally agree with the pp lach, that he could make for a very good red herring, and she makes excellent points! I also tire of the "Don't you know the autism link has been debunked" question, as if that has anything to do with our decisions! GEEZ!

He goes against the grain, though...which is ALWAYS what big gov't does when they are worried about someone speaking out-silence them! I'm all for free speech, and free and open research.

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#18 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 03:17 PM
 
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Ditto the PP, the name rings a bell but he had absolutely nothing to do with my decision to not vaccinate.

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#19 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 03:20 PM
 
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I wonder whats going threw the mind of non-vax mammas on here? Do you feel betrayed? Do you still stand by your decisions?
When I decided not to vaccinate, I had never heard of him.

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#20 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 03:21 PM
 
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We are cautious on vaccinations due to a history of reactions in the family as well as autoimmune issues. It didn't have anything to do with any one physician or any one study

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#21 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 03:26 PM
 
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I have honestly never heard of this guy, so he obviously had no bearing on my decision to not vaccinate my children. I am very secure in my decision and I don't think there is anything that would make me question it.
Mine decision was based on personal experience with my dd and my gut feelings on vax.

 
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#22 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 03:51 PM
 
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I am surprised that so many people on here "researched vaccines a lot" and "had never heard of Wakefield". I researched vaccines very little and had heard of him...for that matter, I would think his name/study is just part of general knowledge for most people. Perhaps so much hasn't been publised about his flawed study in other countries? I am in the US and has been in the news much over the years.
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#23 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 04:03 PM
 
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we could if that truth wasn't fabricated His "study" wasn't as clean as it should have been. Not even remotely. No one can duplicate his results either, because he made sure the results would show what he wanted.

I feel the same about anyone who does what he did. he lost his credibility and I personally think he did more harm to the anti-vax movement then good because its been proved that he lied.

Even if what he says is true, the way he got there was dihonest and that means there is no credibility to it.
It looks like two threads were merged so my post is waaay down from yours right now, but if I had read this post before mine I would have it. Well said.

Also count me in as surprised that so many people have never heard of him. He's been in the news for years now.

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#24 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 04:04 PM
 
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We don't vax, and our decision has little to do with the MMR/autism link. It has more to do with the loads of research we've done which revealed copious amounts of real study and information on chemicals, death and other immediate, short term and long term injury, auto-immune and neurological disorders, along with the flaw we see in the entire argument behind the effectiveness. Additionally, I am suspect of ANYTHING the gov't pushes so hard for while getting large dollars for their efforts.

With that said, I have minimally heard of Wakefield. I think it's TERRIBLY shameful that he is banned. Without knowing much about him, it seems he had plenty of peer reviewed information to make his cause worthwhile in taking a further look at...meaning, most research in the US begins with peer reviews of very small samples. With that correlation, he'd be qualified to at least ask questions before congress and the AMA/AAP!

I edited to add that I totally agree with the pp lach, that he could make for a very good red herring, and she makes excellent points! I also tire of the "Don't you know the autism link has been debunked" question, as if that has anything to do with our decisions! GEEZ!
He goes against the grain, though...which is ALWAYS what big gov't does when they are worried about someone speaking out-silence them! I'm all for free speech, and free and open research.
Have you ever actually looked at the study you're talking about? His study involved 12 children. I'd call that a pretty small sample.

Why would the autism question bother you? It was undoubtedly the loudest cry from anti-vaxxers for the longest amount of time. It stands to reason that it would stick in people's minds. Of course over time the loudest cry has changed. Mercury. Aluminum. Etc. Nobody is debating that there has been scores of other concerns all along. But arguably the one that got the most attention was the claim of vaccines causing autism. Why would anyone with only a passing knowledge of the controversy think any differently?
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#25 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 04:13 PM
 
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I had heard of his study, but autism wasn't my main concern in researching vaccines, so I didn't focus on that angle at all. So, I had heard of him, but it had no bearing on my decision-making process.

So, I'm thinking it's a little ridiculous that all these pro-vax ppl think that discrediting one guy will convince so many people to start vaxing. Maybe more people focused on autism than I would have thought, but I'd gotten the impression that those worried about autism *started* looking there, but probably branched out to other angles. Maybe that's naive.

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#26 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 04:19 PM
 
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I had heard of his study, but autism wasn't my main concern in researching vaccines, so I didn't focus on that angle at all. So, I had heard of him, but it had no bearing on my decision-making process.

So, I'm thinking it's a little ridiculous that all these pro-vax ppl think that discrediting one guy will convince so many people to start vaxing. Maybe more people focused on autism than I would have thought, but I'd gotten the impression that those worried about autism *started* looking there, but probably branched out to other angles. Maybe that's naive.
I agree. No one doctor or study should be an end-all for any issue. And I think your impression was correct. I just think that people who haven't looked into vaccines aren't aware of that.
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#27 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 04:23 PM
 
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I'd heard of him, but he had nothing to do with our decision not to vaccinate. Autism was also quite low on our risk of fears. When I started researching vaccines, my initial research didn't lead me down the path of autism, so that had very little to do with our decision. I found the other information I came across to be logical and compelling. That is probably why I know very little about Wakefield and his work. It is also why I still feel confident in our decision not to vaccinate.

I would never base a decision off of one doctor's opinions, so my beliefs would not come crashing down or leave me feeling betrayed or wrong if one doctor's conclusions were called into question.
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#28 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 04:25 PM
 
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I wonder whats going threw the mind of non-vax mammas on here? Do you feel betrayed? Do you still stand by your decisions?
Considering that autism has nothing to do with why I'm no vax, this doesn't change a thing for me. I don't feel betrayed because I don't even know who the guy is, so I'm not invested in his opinions. There are many reasons people are no vax, one person does not make or break a decision like this.
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#29 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 04:29 PM
 
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Have you ever actually looked at the study you're talking about? His study involved 12 children. I'd call that a pretty small sample.

Why would the autism question bother you? It was undoubtedly the loudest cry from anti-vaxxers for the longest amount of time. It stands to reason that it would stick in people's minds. Of course over time the loudest cry has changed. Mercury. Aluminum. Etc. Nobody is debating that there has been scores of other concerns all along. But arguably the one that got the most attention was the claim of vaccines causing autism. Why would anyone with only a passing knowledge of the controversy think any differently?
No, I haven't read the study. I've only read some information dispersed by media saying that his study was flawed, and the other information citing it as well peer reviewed. Besides, I was one of the people who said he didn't factor into my choices, as we were no-vax long before I had heard of him. He's not my BFF, and I don't know much about him, but I believe that he has a right to be concerned and conduct research, and others, including licensing boards, can decide if his research is up to their standards. I'm not a physician or a researcher, but I'm thankful for anyone who cares and at least has some desire to pursue the non-lucrative path of going against pharma.

The question bothers me, because it makes it seem as if people who don't vaccinate (and I've got this from ped's, who "assume" this, as well) are choosing this out of some "trendy bandwagon-yet totally medically disproved" issue, rather than having done research on the whole host of other issues involved in our no-vax choices.

Besides, if I wanted to avoid vaccines because I thought that (insert any theory here) then I should have the right, unquestioned..I'm still the parent and I still have the right to decide. It's the same as the "Oh, you don't vax..is that because of the campaign by Jenny McCarthy?" Uh, no..it's not..but I AM thankful for her, if she had at least one person take a hard look at vaccines and their history.

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#30 of 95 Old 05-24-2010, 04:39 PM
 
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I will admit that hearing about his research way back when, was what triggered me to take a deeper look into vaccines. I am sad to hear that he has been banned, as I believe that people like him, who question the norm, can really help open people's eyes. I know I would not have questioned vaccines if it had not been for hearing about this, and wondering what else I didn't know about vaccines.

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