Where are the autistic adults in their 30s and older? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 07-13-2010, 02:13 AM
 
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@Ruthla:

Pesticides have been in the food since before 1900. A book published in 1956 by Rodale Press Poisons In Our Foods by John Goodavage bemoans this fact.

I am sure pesticides are not a good thing for anyone, but it is an old part of the picture.
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:23 AM
 
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I have to say I'm extremely fascinated at how insightful your grandmother must have been to make the connection. I don't believe there was any awareness back then like there is today. of course there are those who don't believe it today, but the awareness is at least there. Whether they believe it or not is up to them. For someone to be suspicious of vaccines way back then just wows me. She must have had a lot of guts, or, just not talked about it with her friends, who might have thought she was nuts!
I don't know exactly *when* she started connecting them, but she definitely saw at least a correlation in the timing, as have many parents. I'm sure that she didn't talk about it much, particularly as the mothers were seen as the cause of autism (being too 'cold') so another explanation wouldn't have been taken at all seriously. She did continue to vaccinate her other children. I don't know much about the vaccination schedule in the 50's, but I know that my mother had the smallpox vaccine for sure, and I assume whatever else was available. My mother also had surgeries for polio and is a believer in vaccination.

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Old 07-13-2010, 03:43 AM
 
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I read on Mercola that Wakefield was discredited by a group of people who set out to have him discredited, and that they used questionable methods to do so.
I've found that it's usually a good idea to try to find the facts, rather than trusting someone's opinion. Here's the testimony of a scientist who worked with Wakefield on the study in question: ftp://autism.uscfc.uscourts.gov/auti.../day10-cor.pdf

It's taken from the autism omnibus trial. Dr. Chadwick did the testing of the samples Wakefield took from the autistic children. Dr. Chadwick found that none of the samples showed that any of the children had measles in their guts. Wakefield put in the report that the tests had come out positive. Dr. Chadwick reminded him that that wasn't true. No change. So Dr. Chadwick petitioned to have his name removed from the paper, as he knew the statements therein were lies. Here's a portion of his testimony:

Darn it! It won't let me copy. It's on the link I included. His entire testimony is on pages 1-22.
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Old 07-13-2010, 03:57 PM
 
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The anti-vaccine movement is as old as vaccines themselves. I learned recently that Raggedy Ann and Andy were the mascots of the movement originally.

Not only is the anti-vaccine movement old, skeptics of medicine have been around since the dawn of medicine and the profession of doctors.

::: Just another WAHM using this forum to put off picking up toys and cleaning my house.
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:19 PM
 
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Several posts in this thread are reaching beyond the scope of this forum. So that we can stay on topic for the forum, please focus on the OP's concerns regarding whether historical trends indicate any potential relationship between vaccines/the current vaccine schedule and autism.

General discussion regarding other potential causes of autism or contributing factors is hosted in our Health & Healing forum. Please start new threads in that forum if you would like to pursue that topic of discussion. Should this thread continue to stray beyond the topic of the Vax forum it will be closed.
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:41 PM
 
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(Do)...historical trends indicate any potential relationship between vaccines/the current vaccine schedule and autism.
That has been proven repeatedly by science, so this should be short. The answer, obviously, is no, there is no correlation. The only increase is in the amount of diagnosis for developmental delays that are put under the autism umbrella rather than "schizophrenia" and "non specific learning disorder", where they were routinely categorized before the rise in Autism awareness. Those diagnostic levels go down at the same rate the autism diagnosis goes up.

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Old 07-14-2010, 12:17 AM
 
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That has been proven repeatedly by science, so this should be short. The answer, obviously, is no, there is no correlation. The only increase is in the amount of diagnosis for developmental delays that are put under the autism umbrella rather than "schizophrenia" and "non specific learning disorder", where they were routinely categorized before the rise in Autism awareness. Those diagnostic levels go down at the same rate the autism diagnosis goes up.
I am not sure why you would state this so matter of factly, since the recent California study that actually looked at this issue found quite the opposite.

UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute study shows California's autism increase not due to better counting, diagnosis

Mommy to DS Adrian 8/10/04 and DD Geneva 9/02/09
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:52 AM
 
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Schizophrenia is typically a neurological disorder that appears in late adolescence or young adulthood.

Why mention it in connection with autism?
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:56 AM
 
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Schizophrenia is typically a neurological disorder that appears in late adolescence or young adulthood.

Why mention it in connection with autism?
Autism was commonly misdiagnosed as schizophrenia. I forgot where I read it, but exactly as much as schizophrenia and mental retardation were on the decline is how much autism is on the rise. There's also the aspect that now that autism is better understood and there are more treatments available, doctors are less reticent to diagnose someone as autistic. Before it was kind of a no-hope diagnosis that doctors didn't want to crush parents with.

This is a VERY interesting article about the autism "epidemic":

http://www.autcom.org/pdf/Epidemic.pdf
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:50 AM
 
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So what was the alternative diagnoses that doctors came up with before for the parents whose children had autism?

The book, Son-Rise, was published in 1976. Autism was diagnosed in the 1960s. And Bettleheim recognized autism in the 1960s wanted to blame his He decided on the cause of autism in 1967, in the Empty Fortress:....
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:47 AM
 
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So what was the alternative diagnoses that doctors came up with before for the parents whose children had autism?

The book, Son-Rise, was published in 1976. Autism was diagnosed in the 1960s. And Bettleheim recognized autism in the 1960s wanted to blame his He decided on the cause of autism in 1967, in the Empty Fortress:....
Autistic people were commonly misdiagnosed as having mental retardation or schizophrenia. Although it had been "discovered" by the mid-1900's it wasn't well understood. It wasn't until the 1980's that the DSM recognized autism as it's own disorder and not as a subtype of schizophrenia. The diagnostic criteria was very different back then, too. Every single one of symptoms had to be met and there was not an understanding of autism being a spectrum disorder. It wasn't until 1994 that the diagnostic criteria changed to what it is today, which acknowledges that some types of autism are different than others.
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Old 07-14-2010, 04:30 AM
 
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I've found that it's usually a good idea to try to find the facts, rather than trusting someone's opinion. Here's the testimony of a scientist who worked with Wakefield on the study in question: ftp://autism.uscfc.uscourts.gov/auti.../day10-cor.pdf

It's taken from the autism omnibus trial. Dr. Chadwick did the testing of the samples Wakefield took from the autistic children. Dr. Chadwick found that none of the samples showed that any of the children had measles in their guts. Wakefield put in the report that the tests had come out positive. Dr. Chadwick reminded him that that wasn't true. No change. So Dr. Chadwick petitioned to have his name removed from the paper, as he knew the statements therein were lies. Here's a portion of his testimony:

Darn it! It won't let me copy. It's on the link I included. His entire testimony is on pages 1-22.
But Wakefield's retracted paper in the Lancet didn't argue that the children all had measles in their guts. He published case studies suggesting a possible link between enterocolitis (and pervasive developmental disorder) and the MMR vaccine. Have you actually read the paper?

http://vaccines.procon.org/sourcefil...ncet-paper.pdf

http://www.wesupportandywakefield.co...-Wakefield.pdf

Mercola has a lengthy interview with Wakefield posted on his site.

Wakefield is arguably trying to make book sales and salvage his career, but I agree that it's a good idea to try to find the facts...
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Old 07-14-2010, 05:47 AM
 
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But Wakefield's retracted paper in the Lancet didn't argue that the children all had measles in their guts. He published case studies suggesting a possible link between enterocolitis (and pervasive developmental disorder) and the MMR vaccine. Have you actually read the paper?

http://vaccines.procon.org/sourcefil...ncet-paper.pdf

http://www.wesupportandywakefield.co...-Wakefield.pdf

Mercola has a lengthy interview with Wakefield posted on his site.

Wakefield is arguably trying to make book sales and salvage his career, but I agree that it's a good idea to try to find the facts...
I have read it. His paper, although flawed, is not especially remarkable. It never identifies autism as being related to anything. It's his comments afterwards that do. His whole theory about chronic enterocolitis is that when the MMR vaccine is given to children with leaky gut it travels through the bloodstream into the brain. As proof he cites his study, where he claims that measles antibodies were found in the guts of his test case children. The scientist he was working with, who did the testing, said that none of the specimens ever showed proof of measles.
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:35 AM
 
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If the diagnosis changed in 1994, how is it that someone would have been diagnosed 30+ years ago?

It is my understanding that the same trick was done with polio, i.e., the definition of the disease being manipulated when the vaccine was developed.
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Old 07-15-2010, 04:08 AM
 
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If the diagnosis changed in 1994, how is it that someone would have been diagnosed 30+ years ago?

It is my understanding that the same trick was done with polio, i.e., the definition of the disease being manipulated when the vaccine was developed.
Some people met the much stricter definition of autism in the 1960's. I wouldn't really consider this a "trick." I think it's appropriate to change diagnostic standards when you have more knowledge of the disorder. Kind of like how homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness. It would be shameful if the medical community still considered it a mental illness because we now know it's not.

Initially, the "classic" definition of autism required that the symptoms be in the presence of normal, or apparently normal, intelligence. So back then anyone who was autistic and also MR/DD would only receive a diagnosis of mental retardation. Later on, the prevailing view was that all autistic people were mentally retarded, so people who had apparently normal intelligence would get some other kind of diagnosis, like childhood schizophrenia. Now it is recognized that autism can occur in combination with any kind of IQ, so that means more people get an autism diagnosis than before.
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