Where are the autistic adults in their 30s and older? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 45 Old 07-10-2010, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This is something you don't hear mentioned much by people, like me, who are against the vaccine schedule.
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#2 of 45 Old 07-10-2010, 06:48 PM
 
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Are you being serious? I know several. Many just weren't diagnosed.
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#3 of 45 Old 07-10-2010, 07:17 PM
 
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High functioning ones are making millions in the tech industry.

Lower functioning ones are likely still living at home or in group homes.
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#4 of 45 Old 07-10-2010, 07:35 PM
 
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Please note that discussion in this forum should pertain to vaccines specifically.
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#5 of 45 Old 07-10-2010, 07:53 PM
 
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I used to work as a behavior specialist and residental counselor for severely autistic adults in New England. And there were quite a number of them. About 30ish years ago, it was also often misdiagnosed as schizophrenia. Aspergers and HFA are relatively new diagnoses, but there are a lot of adults who were never diagnosed that would meet criteria--mostly in computer/tech/engineering fields but you can find ASD adults in many fields, including the entertainment industry.

There is an adult that lives around the corner from me that is likely autistic (and we met him because every time I cross the railroad tracks, he's there, watching the train...he knows the train schedule by heart, night and day, and never misses watching the train cross.)

And there's really no way to make this pertain to vaccines, because I think this was posted in the wrong forum. Except that I suppose if people think that vaccines are the only cause of autism and that if they think that autism is *just* a diagnosis of the past 10 years, they'd be wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

Now whether there is an actual bonefide rise in the rate of autism that exists (and not just diagnosed), that's debatable. But I don't know anyone who actually thinks that autism popped up when the vaccine schedule got heavy. There are plenty of autistic adults--I've worked with those who ranged from 18, to the oldest who was well over 60.

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#6 of 45 Old 07-10-2010, 09:42 PM
 
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NO. My mother and aunt have worked in special education since 1971; my aunt has a PhD. This is in California, Oregon, Ohio, Texas and Nevada. Neither of them ever saw so many autistic children until after 1992.

The ADA and other court decisions that mainstreamed special needs children into the classroom is a reason that most people would see autistics for the first time, but autism is definitely on the rise. There was a study to be done in Scotland comparing children with autism and adults with autism, and there was a paucity of adults for the study.

If you know of so many adult autistics in their 30s, tell them to go to Scotland.

Bruno Bettleheim worked with autistic children in the 1950s and 1960s and he blamed their mothers for their condition.
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#7 of 45 Old 07-10-2010, 11:11 PM
 
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I'm against the vaccine schedule.

But, vaccines didn't cause my father's autism. If he were still alive, he'd be in his late 60's now. Autism runs in my family. My brother and I (both in our 30's) would likely be diagnosed with high-functioning autism, just as my oldest son was.

As I've learned more about autism while raising my son, I've thought back to many, many people I grew up with who showed signs of high-functioning autism, but weren't diagnosed. We were weird. Teased. Bullied. We didn't fit in. We didn't play the social games that the other kids were so wrapped up in. Some of us lived in our own little worlds. Some of us had very obvious obsessions. We were usually a bit awkward - physically and socially. But, back then, we weren't labled autistic. And, back then, we had a completely different vaccine schedule.

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#8 of 45 Old 07-10-2010, 11:21 PM
 
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They are in many of the group homes I work at. They were in residences but Ontario has closed all those. I remember when I was researching childhood schizophrenia for university, I had to avoid any study before 1981 or something because prior to that date, the qualifiers for that were what we would now call autism, and were not schizophrenia as its defined today.

Had it existed when I was a child, I would have been diagnosed with Aspergers I feel sure. Instead they labelled it ADHD and pushed Ritalin at 1 year old (Thankfully my mother is opposed to overmedication and I never got any).
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#9 of 45 Old 07-11-2010, 12:33 AM
 
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They are in many of the group homes I work at. They were in residences but Ontario has closed all those.
That.

My uncle lives in one of these group homes. He's nearly 66 and has Autism. He was in an institution from the late 1950's until sometime in the 70s. There is an invisible generation of people with Autism - my grandparents didn't get any support in having him stay at home. My grandmother was blamed for causing his Autism. They created their own community supports but ultimately placed him in an institution in an effort to protect their other children. By placing him, they were doing what society had been pressuring them to do for the previous 12 years. He wouldn't have been integrated into school or attending day camp with his sisters. Disabilities were to be hidden.

Incidentally, even before it was a popular sentiment, my grandmother felt that there was a correlation between his vaccinations and the onset of the symptoms. Personally I think there's a lot more to it, and that is not my primary reason for not vaccinating my children.

Erica
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#10 of 45 Old 07-11-2010, 12:35 AM
 
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One of my best friends has aspbergers. She works for Merk.. Her Father has aspbergers also

Jeana Christian momma to 4 sons Logan 18, Connor 15, Nathan 6, and bonus baby Jack 1
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#11 of 45 Old 07-11-2010, 09:51 PM
 
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I'm almost positive my dad has Asperger's just like my ds.My ds has only had one hep b vax.

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#12 of 45 Old 07-11-2010, 10:17 PM
 
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My friend's dad works for NASA, he is 64 and from Iran originally (so no vax at all as a child). He was informally diagnosed with aspergers when he was in his late 50s and says that pretty much everyone who works at NASA is aspie. Ditto MIT, Silicon Valley, and many academic institutions.

High functioning became geeks and nerds or those quirky people that no one really understood. low functioning were warehoused and hidden, labeled mentally retarded, schizophrenic or other labels.

You know the attributes for a great adult? Initiative, creativity, intellectual curiosity? They make for a helluva kid...
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#13 of 45 Old 07-11-2010, 11:08 PM
 
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Iran does vaccinate their children. My BIL was vaxed for TB as a child in Iran. The Pasteur Institute was established there in 1920 for the research and prevention of infectious diseases.

The polio vaccine is required for the pilgrimage to Mecca, the hajj.

It is interesting now that everyone at NASA, MIT, Silicon Valley is being diagnosed post hoc as "an aspie". Who does this "Monday Morning diagnosing"?

Ten years ago, an article appeared that said that all Americans were ADHD types. That was the cultural cocktail hour discussion. The idea was that our ancestors were restless, wanting adventure so they set their sights on the New World. The fact that these people would have to focus attention and energy on this goal seemed to allude the writers of the article.

Does everyone at NASA have explosive diarrhea and intestinal distress also? Do they scream, bang their heads on the wall, walk on their toes, and flap their arms? Would a DAN! practitioner be on the payroll or would it be part of their healthcare package?

It may seem a ridiculous statement, but, these are the symptoms of autism and these actions and symptoms need to be taken into consideration. Just because someone is a "geek" does not make them autistic or on the asperger's spectrum.
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#14 of 45 Old 07-11-2010, 11:12 PM
 
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#15 of 45 Old 07-11-2010, 11:14 PM
 
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#16 of 45 Old 07-11-2010, 11:16 PM
 
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I'm right here...although I can say for sure that I wasn't disabled until 10/12/99, this was a few days after my Hep B vaccine for work. I have been on SSDI ever since, not able to work.

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#17 of 45 Old 07-11-2010, 11:36 PM
 
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Iran does vaccinate their children.

The polio vaccine is required for the pilgrimage to Mecca, the hajj.

It is interesting now that everyone at NASA is being diagnosed post hoc as "an aspie". Who does this "Monday Morning diagnosing"?

Ten years ago, an article appeared that said that all Americans were ADHD types. That was the cultural cocktail hour discussion. The idea was that our ancestors were restless, wanting adventure so they set their sights on the New World.

Does everyone at NASA have explosive diarrhea and intestinal distress also? Do they scream, bang their heads on the wall, walk on their toes, and flap their arms? Would a DAN! practitioner be on the payroll or would it be part of their healthcare package?
I don't think that she meant that everyone at NASA has been formally diagnosed with Aspergers. It seemed to me like it was meant to be a funny generalization whose point, if any, was that many autistic adults were never formally diagnosed.

Autism is probably the most researched disorder regarding its link to vaccines. The results have been that there is no correlation. It seems to me that even most anti-vaxxers doubt that there's any link between the two. (I haven't taken a poll or anything, that's just the feeling I get)
http://www.pkids.org/pdf/AMJPRMED.pdf
http://www.pkids.org/pdf/PEDSarticle.pdf
http://www.samefacts.com/archives/JA...cle%5B1%5D.pdf

http://www.healing-arts.org/children...and_Autism.pdf
http://journal.shouxi.net/qikan/article.php?id=178814
http://www.contentnejmorg.zuom.info/...57/13/1281.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18180424

Caned&Able, your posts in this thread have seemed sort of... agressive? Hostile? Almost like you feel that you're being attacked. Is everything okay? I have the hardest time conveying feeling through text, so I can totally understand if that's it.
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#18 of 45 Old 07-11-2010, 11:57 PM
 
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I'm fine.

As most doctors, I do not believe in diagnosing from anecdotal details. It is plain silly.

I believe siobang can speak for herself.
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#19 of 45 Old 07-12-2010, 12:20 AM
 
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Okay, this is personal experience. But I hadn't heard about autism until I was pregnant with my son. I grew up in a small village (1400 people) and I can assure you, if someone had autism, I would have known. There are a couple mildly retarded children I knew growing up (like slow learners ala Forrest Gump), and nobody was hiding them nor putting anyone into homes (that would be looked very down upon in our town and fiercely known and gossiped about). I was born in 1982, and I didn't even have a kid in my class with allergies. In fact, I didn't meet anyone with allergies until I was in college. We grew up in East Germany (vax schedule started at birth with BCG, then at 6/8/10/24 months with DTP/OPV and 12 months measles, then a booster of DT at age 5, that's all I got), we ate very little processed food (wasn't available) and spent our time outside (cause there was nothing on TV and nobody could afford a computer). The first time I had pizza I was 7, and the first time I went to a McDonalds I was 14.
And looking at all the data, despite changing diagnosis, ASD are on the rise. Why is a question to be answered, but nothing should be dismissed. I'd love to see the data David Kirby tried to get his hands on but the CDC never let the researchers have it, that's quite suspicious. The stuff I have seen from the CDC and FDA makes them anything but credible.
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#20 of 45 Old 07-12-2010, 12:59 AM
 
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That.

My uncle lives in one of these group homes. He's nearly 66 and has Autism. He was in an institution from the late 1950's until sometime in the 70s. There is an invisible generation of people with Autism - my grandparents didn't get any support in having him stay at home. My grandmother was blamed for causing his Autism. They created their own community supports but ultimately placed him in an institution in an effort to protect their other children. By placing him, they were doing what society had been pressuring them to do for the previous 12 years. He wouldn't have been integrated into school or attending day camp with his sisters. Disabilities were to be hidden.

Incidentally, even before it was a popular sentiment, my grandmother felt that there was a correlation between his vaccinations and the onset of the symptoms. Personally I think there's a lot more to it, and that is not my primary reason for not vaccinating my children.

Erica
I have to say I'm extremely fascinated at how insightful your grandmother must have been to make the connection. I don't believe there was any awareness back then like there is today. of course there are those who don't believe it today, but the awareness is at least there. Whether they believe it or not is up to them. For someone to be suspicious of vaccines way back then just wows me. She must have had a lot of guts, or, just not talked about it with her friends, who might have thought she was nuts!

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
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#21 of 45 Old 07-12-2010, 01:55 AM
 
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Children who were different were handled by institutionializing them. No mainstreaming then. Furthermore, the mother was blamed for her difference and coldness - the refrigerator mother. Doctors always blame the parents.

Marge Grant was offered this option in her book, A Stolen Life, and she refused. Her son is now 50. He is retarded and blind, from a series of vaccine reactions that she chronicles in her book. She was told by a doctor at Minnesota's Mayo Clinic that the vaccine, Quadriferon, now off the market, caused the damage. She also found other parents whose children suffered similar damage from the vaccines. She also discusses the condition of some institutions as Willowbrook in New York State. She surmises a bit in the book that most of the children in those institutions were vaccine damaged and she says they were used as test material for hepatitis vaccines since hepatitis was rampant in those places.

When my mother and Aunt earned their degrees in special education, the autism rate in the population was 1 in 10,000. Why would such a rare condition be mentioned in the late 1960s and early 1970s? Other rare conditions were mentioned, but none of them have become so prevalent.
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#22 of 45 Old 07-12-2010, 03:18 AM
 
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When my mother and Aunt earned their degrees in special education, the autism rate in the population was 1 in 10,000. Why would such a rare condition be mentioned in the late 1960s and early 1970s? Other rare conditions were mentioned, but none of them have become so prevalent.
Mentioned to whom?
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#23 of 45 Old 07-12-2010, 12:34 PM
 
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I have to say I'm extremely fascinated at how insightful your grandmother must have been to make the connection. I don't believe there was any awareness back then like there is today. of course there are those who don't believe it today, but the awareness is at least there. Whether they believe it or not is up to them. For someone to be suspicious of vaccines way back then just wows me. She must have had a lot of guts, or, just not talked about it with her friends, who might have thought she was nuts!
They where aware. Not to the extent as we are to day thanks to the www but yes they where aware.

My mom was born in 1937 with a heart valve deformity. Her dr told my grandmother to NEVER have her vaccinated due to the valve issue. Mom has never received a vaccine.

Would loved to have heard the drs reasoning as to why no vaccines due to the heart not working correctly.
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#24 of 45 Old 07-12-2010, 02:21 PM
 
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They where aware. Not to the extent as we are to day thanks to the www but yes they where aware.

My mom was born in 1937 with a heart valve deformity. Her dr told my grandmother to NEVER have her vaccinated due to the valve issue. Mom has never received a vaccine.

Would loved to have heard the drs reasoning as to why no vaccines due to the heart not working correctly.
So interesting as todays docs would tell a mom with a special needs child (with a heart valve defect) that it is all the more important to get all the vaccines on the schedule.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#25 of 45 Old 07-12-2010, 02:31 PM
 
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What I find amazing is that vaccines used to be widely known to cause neurological damage (see the 1970's 60 Minutes piece on the swine flu vaccine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk6Qfg6RXOg ).

Compare the tone of that piece with the current medical professional "united front" attitude that the idea that vaccines could cause autism is somehow ridiculous or far-fetched.

I find it shocking how our medical knowledge is actually devolving due to the blind insistence that vaccines are always wonderful. Instead of studying this effect and figuring out why vaccines can cause damage, they just spin and deny. We could have safer vaccines now and possibly avoided the autism epidemic if they had directed energy into studying ill effects. Now they just spent all their money promoting vaccines and denying any damage.

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#26 of 45 Old 07-12-2010, 11:11 PM
 
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....mentioned to the college students of the day in psychology and education classes.

Quote:
They where aware. Not to the extent as we are to day thanks to the www but yes they where aware.
Very true. Doctors saw the reactions day in and day out in their practices; doctors made house calls more often and the profit factor was not as great in the old days. My great Aunt went into shock after receiving a vaccine and her mother was told not to give her any more vaccines. Doctor see reactions now and are told by the drug companies that the research does not support the connection between vaccines and the damage many people think vaccines do.
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#27 of 45 Old 07-12-2010, 11:22 PM
 
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We need to remember that vaccines are not the only change this generation has had to face compared to earlier generations. What about pesticides? GMOs? Plastic used in everything? Food additives? Random chemicals found in processed foods? Or even malnutrition from crops grown in poor soil and highly processed foods?

Even if you did get statistical proof that autism is on the rise, you can't assume vaccines are to blame.

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#28 of 45 Old 07-13-2010, 12:35 AM
 
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It is a myth that there is an increase in actual autism. There is a rise in the diagnosis falling under the autism spectrum, but right alongside that rise is a direct decline in other DD dxs. So, same amount of people, just sorted out differently.

I also suspect if you honestly believe that there aren't any/many Autistic Adults it has more to do with not really understanding what an Autistic person really looks/acts like. "Rainman" is only one variant, and I know that my assumptions about what Autism actually was got in the way of my son's diagnosis. I can see those subtle (and not so subtle) symptoms in people now that I was just blind to before I had the knowledge I do now.

And I fail to see why this is in the vaccine forum anyway. Not only was Wakefield's work totally disproven, there are a number of unvaccinated kids here on Mothering (and I know several more IRL) that have Autism.

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#29 of 45 Old 07-13-2010, 12:35 AM
 
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^ Highly processed foods and microwaves... Just adding.

I do not believe that vaccines are solely to blame for autism...but injecting heavy metals directly into the blood stream...it sure doesn't help one bit.
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#30 of 45 Old 07-13-2010, 12:58 AM
 
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I read on Mercola that Wakefield was discredited by a group of people who set out to have him discredited, and that they used questionable methods to do so.
I never met anyone with blatant full-blown autism growing up while I have med several people whose children have it, although I have had two friends who were diagnosed with Asperger's as adults. I think it's easier to pass as just a bit odd with high functioning Asperger's than with the more full-blown autism.

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