Does flu shot for children contain aluminum? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 21 Old 07-14-2010, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Did they finally take out the aluminum in flu shots for children? I understand they don't contain mercury anymore (at least the ones for children).
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#2 of 21 Old 07-14-2010, 07:53 PM
 
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As far as I know...all flu vaccines contain thimerasol and aluminum. You can request the thimerasol and aluminum free vaccines, but they usually cost more and are much more difficult to come across.

I may be wrong...but you are better off getting the ingredients list of the vaccine that you are thinking of giving to your child and going from there. Each manufacturer has different ingredients.
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#3 of 21 Old 07-14-2010, 07:58 PM
 
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Actually, none of the flu shots in the U.S. contain aluminum, and I don't think they ever did.

But mercury is STILL in many of the flu shot brands, even the ones that are approved for use in children and pregnant women

You can read the package inserts for each brand.

seasonal: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac.../ucm094045.htm
H1N1: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac.../ucm181950.htm

Whether you get a mercury containing flu shot or not depends on what the doctor's office or pharmacy has on hand. Every year more mercury-containing flu shots are produced than mercury-free shots. So availability is an issue, but cost is not. If there is any difference in cost to the consumer, it is miniscule.

ALWAYS check the package insert. Last year there was a flu shot clinic at my local drugstore. Out of curiosity, I asked the health professionals who were administering the shots if they contained mercury. They said they didn't, and they knew that for sure because they had called their employer and asked. Guess what....the shots contained 25 mcg mercury, the full amount. They were shocked when I showed them the package inserts. I was upset thinking of all the people they previously gave flu shots to, who thought they were getting mercury free shots.
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#4 of 21 Old 07-14-2010, 08:18 PM
 
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Availability is a huge problem. Places like Safeway, Walgreens and other supermarket/pharmacy flu shot clinics only use the shots that contain mercury. They use those as they are easier to come by, cheaper - because those are mutli-dose vials, which is why they need the thimerosal in them as a preservative, opposed to a single vial shot that is prepackaged and won't get poked multiple times to fill up syringes. Baeh.
We have a problem with this since DH is required to get a stupid flu shot against his will yearly because he is military. On base they only administer FLumist, if you don't want it, go off-base and self-pay. This year we have a little bit more time and I will find a place that has single shots. Most likely obgyn offices will carry it - he can have mine that evil pregnant me is declining.
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#5 of 21 Old 07-14-2010, 09:30 PM
 
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Here is a list of the vaccines and the ingredients in them:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-2.pdf

ma2two is correct...none of the current flu vaccines contain aluminum...but the vast majority of them contain thimerasol. Note that even some of the "single dose" vaxes contain thimerasol, as well. Hope this helps to find a vax that fits your needs, etc.
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#6 of 21 Old 07-14-2010, 10:03 PM
 
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I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading that even the "mercury free" vaccines aren't really mercury free. They were made with mercury, then had the mercury removed. That process leaves behind trace amounts of mercury, but "trace amounts" isn't a tested or documented amount, so it is up to you to trust how much mercury that really is and whether or not you are comfortable with it.
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#7 of 21 Old 07-15-2010, 01:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ammiga View Post
I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading that even the "mercury free" vaccines aren't really mercury free. They were made with mercury, then had the mercury removed. That process leaves behind trace amounts of mercury, but "trace amounts" isn't a tested or documented amount, so it is up to you to trust how much mercury that really is and whether or not you are comfortable with it.
Trace amounts of mercury left over from the manufacturing process are listed in the package inserts as "<0.3 mcg mercury." Here is an example, from the Tripedia brand of DTaP. http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biologi.../UCM101580.pdf (first page, line 19 and 20).

There are no flu shots that contain trace amounts of mercury. They either contain no mercury, 1 mcg mercury, 24.5 mcg mercury, or 25 mcg mercury.
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#8 of 21 Old 07-15-2010, 10:20 PM
 
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Aluminium is an adjuvant and necessary to creating the artificial immune response. Thimerasol is still in the flu vaccine and others...it is still in all vaxes in miniscule amounts.
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#9 of 21 Old 07-15-2010, 10:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caned & able View Post
Aluminium is an adjuvant and necessary to creating the artificial immune response. Thimerasol is still in the flu vaccine and others...it is still in all vaxes in miniscule amounts.
You are correct that aluminum is used as an adjuvant to stimulate the immune response, but it is not in U.S. flu vaccines.

Thimerosal/mercury is NOT in all vaccines. It is in most available doses of flu vaccines. But most other pediatric vaccines in the U.S. are now completely thimerosal/mercury free. If thimerosal/mercury is used in the manufacturing process, it is impossible to filter out completely, so it will be listed in the package insert as <0.3 mcg mercury, which is not actually a miniscule amount. It is 3 times the EPA's limit for hazardous waste.

Thimerosal/mercury was never in live virus vaccines, such as MMR, as it would kill the live viruses.

Here is a list of the mercury content of current U.S. licensed vaccines.
http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm
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#10 of 21 Old 07-18-2010, 03:59 PM
 
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Isn't the flu vaccine a live virus vaccine? Or am I thinking of flumist?

Regardless, injection of vaccines are bad news for the immune and neurological system.
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#11 of 21 Old 07-18-2010, 08:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caned & able View Post
Isn't the flu vaccine a live virus vaccine? Or am I thinking of flumist?
The nasal spray flu vaccines are live virus, and do not contain mercury.
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#12 of 21 Old 07-19-2010, 03:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ma2two View Post
If thimerosal/mercury is used in the manufacturing process, it is impossible to filter out completely, so it will be listed in the package insert as <0.3 mcg mercury, which is not actually a miniscule amount. It is 3 times the EPA's limit for hazardous waste.
Do you have a link for that? TIA.
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#13 of 21 Old 07-19-2010, 04:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by heathergirl67 View Post
Do you have a link for that? TIA.
I'm assuming you are referring to the last sentence.
http://www.ehso.com/cssepa/TCLP.htm
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#14 of 21 Old 07-19-2010, 05:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ma2two View Post
I'm assuming you are referring to the second part.
http://www.ehso.com/cssepa/TCLP.htm
Haha. Yes, sorry about that. I was referring to the second part. Thanks for the link! I couldn't find where they got that info from the actual EPA site, though. I found this:

Quote:
The resulting criterion of 0.3 mg methylmercury/kg in fish tissue should not be exceeded to protect the health of consumers of noncommercial freshwater/estuarine fish.
But that's not really the same thing...
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#15 of 21 Old 07-19-2010, 05:32 AM
 
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heathergirl67, if you want something from the actual EPA site, here you go. http://www.epa.gov/osw/hazard/tsd/mercury/treatmnt.htm
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#16 of 21 Old 07-19-2010, 07:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ma2two View Post
heathergirl67, if you want something from the actual EPA site, here you go. http://www.epa.gov/osw/hazard/tsd/mercury/treatmnt.htm
Thanks! I don't think that any of those types of mercury are the one used in vaccines, though. Vaccines use ethylmercury. The EPA regulates methylmercury, which stores in the body much longer than ethylmercury. It may seem like a trivial difference, but it's actually pretty significant. Sort of like methyl alcohol is antifreeze, but ethyl alcohol is an important ingredient in any good cocktail. Just a letter different, but a world apart. So the EPA's guidelines for acceptable levels of methylmercury in land water aren't applicable to vaccines, since no vaccine contains that ingredient.
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#17 of 21 Old 07-19-2010, 01:02 PM
 
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heathergirl67, I don't think mothering.com is the appropriate forum for arguing there is a "safe" kind of mercury to be injected into babies. But somehow I knew that was coming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heathergirl67 View Post
Vaccines use ethylmercury. The EPA regulates methylmercury
If you refer to this again, http://www.epa.gov/osw/hazard/tsd/mercury/treatmnt.htm you'll see they regulate all types of mercury.

I have seen your argument (that the mercury in vaccines is safer than methylmercury) on some rabidly pro-vax sites. I'm not sure how many people it convinces. And it happens to be flat-out wrong. But I'm not going to spend much time on that point, because I feel that there's no convincing you, and the rest of us probably don't need convincing. But on the chance that you are open, I'll say one thing then I'm done. Some studies with an obvious agenda have shown that the mercury in thimerosal "leaves the body" quickly, as in not detectible in blood or urine or stool. That's because it gets trapped in the brain. Yay.
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#18 of 21 Old 07-19-2010, 01:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ma2two View Post
I have seen that argument on some rabidly pro-vax sites. I'm not sure how many people it convinces. And it happens to be flat-out wrong. But I'm not going to spend much time on that point, because I feel that there's no convincing you, and the rest of us probably don't need convincing. But on the chance that you are open, I'll say one thing then I'm done. Some studies with an obvious agenda have shown that the mercury in thimerosal "leaves the body" quickly, as in not detectible in blood or urine or stool. That's because it gets trapped in the brain. Yay.
Geez, I don't know Heathergirl's posting history or stance on the vaccine issue, but this came across a little ... brusque.

I don't know the background of pro-vax sites, since I never visit them, and I am unfamiliar with the health arguments for and against ethyl mercury vs methyl mercury. But having a chemical background, I don't think the distinction is a trivial one at all. If this has been hashed out in another thread, please link. Otherwise, there may well be valid points for or against the body's ability to cope with ethyl vs methyl forms of mercury. IMHO, a discussion of the topic is more conducive to the learning process than categorically dismissing the point.
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#19 of 21 Old 07-19-2010, 03:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ma2two View Post
heathergirl67, I don't think mothering.com is the appropriate forum for arguing there is a "safe" kind of mercury to be injected into babies. But somehow I knew that was coming.

If you refer to this again, http://www.epa.gov/osw/hazard/tsd/mercury/treatmnt.htm you'll see they regulate all types of mercury.
Thanks, I did look at that site, and like I said, I didn't see a recommendation for ethylmercury, the ingredient in some vaccines.

Quote:
I have seen your argument (that the mercury in vaccines is safer than methylmercury) on some rabidly pro-vax sites.
Did you really have to throw "rabidly" in there? Implying that those sites are frenzied and without reason. And that, by extension, so am I because I share that opinion? I know we might disagree on some things, but we can still try to be friendly about it.
Quote:
I'm not sure how many people it convinces. And it happens to be flat-out wrong. But I'm not going to spend much time on that point, because I feel that there's no convincing you, and the rest of us probably don't need convincing.
That's fine. Although I don't like to see someone saying that my position is flat out wrong without some backing evidence being shown. But you're correct, it's not your job to convince me or defend your position if you don't want to.
Quote:
But on the chance that you are open, I'll say one thing then I'm done. Some studies with an obvious agenda have shown that the mercury in thimerosal "leaves the body" quickly, as in not detectible in blood or urine or stool. That's because it gets trapped in the brain. Yay.
I would love to see those studies. Because the ones that I've seen deal with ethylmercury (thimerisol) and have found no adverse reactions:
http://www.pkids.org/pdf/AMJPRMED.pdf
http://www.healing-arts.org/children...and_Autism.pdf
http://journal.shouxi.net/qikan/article.php?id=178814
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18180424

These relate to autism, but I know there's others like it that are not autism-specific. I'll try to find them....
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#20 of 21 Old 07-19-2010, 05:20 PM
 
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Some bits and pieces of info for your (everyone's) reading pleasure

MSDS sheet for ethyl mercury
http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/ET/ethyl_m..._chloride.html
Quote:
Toxicology:
Poison. Experimental teratogen. Human mutagenic data. May cause skin burns.
Slide presentation from the Institute of Medicine's website
http://www.iom.edu/~/media/Files/Act...ty/Lucier.ashx

please see last page 3rd bullet down in particular


6 pages of studies documenting the toxic effects of ethyl mercury
http://www.healing-arts.org/children...ies_Autism.pdf

179 page document about infant exposure to thimersol. I have not read it all, I'm working my way through it...ugh
http://www.abtassociates.com/reports/ThimerosalVol1.pdf

interesting reading albeit from a anti-vax website. However the studies are well documented. One could look them up and read them if interested.
http://www.vaccinetruth.org/ethyl_vs__methyl.htm

Study about thimerosol's effect on the immune system
http://www.jleukbio.org/cgi/content/full/81/2/474


From the journal of Toxicology
http://www.natuurarts.nl/antiviraal/...himerosalp.pdf

Boyd Haley, PhD affidavit
http://vran.org/about-vaccines/vacci...ment-outcomes/

From 1961...last paragraph in particular
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...TRY=1&SRETRY=0

about synergistic toxicity...that's a whole other thread!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17481684

Quote:
Most important, however, is one’s genetically programmed ability to rid the body of mercury. The brain has a house-cleaning protein that removes dangerous waste products, which comes in three varieties: APO-E2, APO-E3, and APO-E4. The APO-E2 protein can carry 2 atoms of mercury out of the brain; APO-3, one; and AOP-E4, none. The genes we acquire from each parent determine which two we have. People with two APO-E4 proteins (and thus no APO-E2 or -E3) have an 80 percent chance of acquiring Alzheimer’s disease. And according to one study, autistic children have a huge preponderance of APO-E4 protein in their brains.
Donald ******, MD
isn't that what this all boils down to. Not that any of the ingredients are "safe". That's a load of *****...no chemical is "safe" ie it has absolutely no effect on the human body. Chemicals may be "safe" for many people in that they do not show detrimental effects from being exposed to said chemical. (This, however does NOT mean that there is NO effect). I digress....the issue is that no 1 person/chil is genetically the same. Certain people/children will have genetic predispositions that make them more vulnerable to the effects the the chemicals/ingredients. This is why the one size fits all, all kids are a carbon copy of one another apprach is such a load of *****

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#21 of 21 Old 07-24-2010, 11:51 AM
 
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Have you read the Simpsonwood Transcripts, Heather67?
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