Religious Exemption for Preschool Advice - Mothering Forums

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Old 07-24-2010, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The preschool seems very easy going. I just want to make sure I am doing things right. What exactly do I need for a religious exemption? They said that they do accept them.

I have read and saved threads on this topic, but can't find them now when I need them, so thanks for your time and help.

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Old 07-24-2010, 02:55 PM
 
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If they do not accept religious exemptions...then you are most likely wasting your time with them.

If they are a public school, they have to take the exemption...if they are not...it's iffy on whether or not they do.
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Old 07-24-2010, 03:23 PM
 
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It depends on your state.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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Old 07-24-2010, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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They do accept religious exemptions.

I just want to know what I need for the exemption. I live in indiana. Do I print something off and sign it?

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Old 07-24-2010, 04:05 PM
 
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http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/sta.../indiana.aspxA school child may not be required to undergo any immunization when the child's parent objects on religious grounds. A religious objection must be:

(1) Made in writing;
(2) Signed by the child's parent; and
(3) Delivered to the child's teacher or to the individual who might order an immunization.

https://chirp.in.gov/chirp_files/doc...008-2009V2.pdf

Quote:
To whom it may concern;



(We / I) {First and Last name(s)}, as the {(parent (s) / guardian(s)} of ______________________(name of newborn child) are exercising (our/my) rights under the US Constitution,
TITLE 20. EDUCATION, ARTICLE 34. STUDENT HEALTH AND SAFETY MEASURES, CHAPTER 3. HEALTH AND SAFETY MEASURES
, IC 20-34-3-2 (2007) Religious objections; to receive Religious Exemption from Vaccination due to our genuine and sincere religious beliefs which are contrary to the practices herein required.

Sincerely,

Your signature.
Date

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:33 PM
 
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I highly recommend checking out:

Vaccination Liberation- Exemption Information

They have a zillion variations of letters so you can fine one that you are most comfortable with and also separate ones regarding your state/country statutes and laws. Also includes military exemptions.
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Awesome, thank you so much!

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Old 07-25-2010, 11:53 PM
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I guess the first thing you'd need is a religious ground for objection to the vaccinations at issue, instead of some fear about health. What's your religion?
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Iucounu View Post
What's your religion?
That's not relevant. The school cannot demand to know that, and Constitutionally, cannot require any specific religion or church membership. But I see what you're trying to do and the point you're trying to make. But be careful, as MDC does not host discussions on the merits of mandatory vaccines.
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Old 07-26-2010, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ma2two View Post
That's not relevant. The school cannot demand to know that, and Constitutionally, cannot require any specific religion or church membership. But I see what you're trying to do and the point you're trying to make. But be careful, as MDC does not host discussions on the merits of mandatory vaccines.
It's relevant, because in order to take advantage of a religious exemption for a vaccine, you need to have a religious basis.

Also, as I understand it, the religious exemption is provided on a state-by-state basis. A minor technical point.
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Old 07-26-2010, 03:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Iucounu View Post
It's relevant, because in order to take advantage of a religious exemption for a vaccine, you need to have a religious basis.

Also, as I understand it, the religious exemption is provided on a state-by-state basis. A minor technical point.
No state requires that a specific religion be stated. Every state must abide by the U.S. Constitution, and requiring a specific religion would go against the Constitution. So it is not relevant. You are correct, the specific requirements and wording of the law depends on the state. That is why someone asked what state, and the OP answered. It's Indiana, if you have any specific advice to add for Indiana.

But here's the information straight from an Indiana government website: "A religious objection must be in writing and state that the objection to immunization is based on religious grounds; signed by the child’s parent; and delivered to the school. There is no requirement of proof. The written objection must be resubmitted to the school each year." https://chirp.in.gov/chirp_files/doc...008-2009V2.pdf Seems pretty easy and straightforward. I don't think the OP is going to have any problems.
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Old 07-26-2010, 04:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MamatoPeach View Post
They do accept religious exemptions.

I just want to know what I need for the exemption. I live in indiana. Do I print something off and sign it?
Wow...reading comprehension fail. Sorry!

Glad you found some helpful info, though!!!
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Old 07-26-2010, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ma2two View Post
No state requires that a specific religion be stated. Every state must abide by the U.S. Constitution, and requiring a specific religion would go against the Constitution. So it is not relevant. You are correct, the specific requirements and wording of the law depends on the state. That is why someone asked what state, and the OP answered. It's Indiana, if you have any specific advice to add for Indiana.

But here's the information straight from an Indiana government website: "A religious objection must be in writing and state that the objection to immunization is based on religious grounds; signed by the child’s parent; and delivered to the school. There is no requirement of proof. The written objection must be resubmitted to the school each year." https://chirp.in.gov/chirp_files/doc...008-2009V2.pdf Seems pretty easy and straightforward. I don't think the OP is going to have any problems.
I don't think you're understanding the federal / state distinction. But that's okay; you don't have to be a Constitutional scholar to post on the internet. No matter.

The point, which you seem to be intentionally looking past, is that one has to actually have a bona fide religious reason for not vaccinating in order to take advantage of a religious exemption. Just claiming that you have one doesn't quite get it-- you actually have to have one. Unless you are saying that it doesn't matter if the OP lies.
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Old 07-26-2010, 04:50 AM
 
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I don't think you're understanding the federal / state distinction. But that's okay; you don't have to be a Constitutional scholar to post on the internet. No matter.
Please let me know what I've written that is incorrect. I'm willing to learn! Do you have expertise in the field?

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Originally Posted by Iucounu View Post
The point, which you seem to be intentionally looking past, is that one has to actually have a bona fide religious reason for not vaccinating in order to take advantage of a religious exemption. Just claiming that you have one doesn't quite get it-- you actually have to have one. Unless you are saying that it doesn't matter if the OP lies.
I don't recall saying she didn't need a religious reason. I believe I wrote that her specific religion is not relevant to the discussion. Religious beliefs can be highly personal. They need not fit into any established religion.
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:11 AM
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Please let me know what I've written that is incorrect.
It's all right up there in the previous posts, including your very first sentence in this thread. Without meaning to be unpleasant, I don't think there's any point in engaging in a debate on the Constitution with you, but I would encourage you to read up on it if you are interested. Here is a pretty good page I found just now that relates to your interest:
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/...ic=vaccination

To recap: the main prerequisite for a religious exemption is an actual, valid religious reason. If the particular state allows for such an exemption in the first place, that is-- not all do, though most do.

The OP's specific religion (as is that of anyone claiming a religious exemption), is relevant to the discussion, since in order to have a valid religious exemption, one must have a valid religious basis for the exemption. This has nothing to do with what a state can demand as proof. I'm not a state, you see.

The religious exemptions present a serious policy problem: anyone can escape a vaccination requirement by falsely claiming that their religion prohibits vaccination. Meanwhile, it is difficult to enforce the truth requirement. It should be obvious that some people claim the exemption without a valid basis. A lie is a lie, and it is particularly bad if someone lies in order to legally escape a public safety requirement. (I am not meaning to imply in the slightest that the OP, specifically, would be lying by claiming an exemption-- but I am curious to know what religious basis she has for an exemption. I think they tend to be rare in reality, and it is interesting to run across such things.)
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:18 AM
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ma2two, here you go, a news article on a blindingly obvious point I've made repeatedly in this thread, but which you seem to just look past:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21347434/

In order to claim a religious exemption legally and ethically, one must have a valid, religious objection to vaccination. That's all I was originally telling the OP; that's the main requirement to claim a religious exemption, though states do differ on other more minor requirements for obtaining an exemption. This is good for religious people! It means that if one has a valid religious opposition to vaccines, one can be exempt from them in almost all states today.

However, it should not be used as an end-run around the law, which I trust the OP would not do. It makes no difference whatsoever what the state requires as proof. It's mainly about truth, obeying the law, and protecting the public.
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:42 PM
 
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ma2two, here you go, a news article on a blindingly obvious point I've made repeatedly in this thread, but which you seem to just look past:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21347434/

In order to claim a religious exemption legally and ethically, one must have a valid, religious objection to vaccination. That's all I was originally telling the OP; that's the main requirement to claim a religious exemption, though states do differ on other more minor requirements for obtaining an exemption. This is good for religious people! It means that if one has a valid religious opposition to vaccines, one can be exempt from them in almost all states today.
The letter I provided above is sufficient for the OP's state; she does not have to detail her beliefs, so no, her specific religion is not relevant.

Ethically--"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)." A child should not be denied an education for refusal to take prophylactic drugs which could harm or kill them.

Some states considered "religious only" have this language

Quote:
Children need not be immunized if the parent, guardian or emancipated child objects in writing to the immunization on religious grounds or on the basis of a strong moral or ethical conviction similar to a religious belief.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:01 PM
 
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It's all right up there in the previous posts, including your very first sentence in this thread. Without meaning to be unpleasant, I don't think there's any point in engaging in a debate on the Constitution with you
You're here to debate everything else. I find it interesting you are not willing to tell me what I've written that is incorrect, when I said I'm willing to learn.

I took a look at your link. http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/...ic=vaccination Again, I'm not seeing where what I've written is incorrect. I don't want to beg, but will you please point to the specific inaccuracies in my posts, and correct them, in your own words, not a 4,000 word webpage that's not entirely on topic?

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Originally Posted by Iucounu View Post
To recap: the main prerequisite for a religious exemption is an actual, valid religious reason.
So why have you been asking to know the OP's religion? Why didn't you just ask what her religious reason is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iucounu View Post
I am curious to know what religious basis she has for an exemption. I think they tend to be rare in reality, and it is interesting to run across such things.)
How could you possibly have any statistics on what is in someone's heart? Again, you seem to be getting specific religions mixed up with personal religious beliefs.
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:13 PM
 
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Well, this whole discussion could be shut down by pointing out that most states (mine included) use the word "religion" to mean sincerely held belief.

My religion does not prohibit vaccination. By I sincerely believe that they are harmful to my children. Therefore, I have submitted a religious exemption, as have many of my church friends. And we have done so with a clear conscience before God.

Bring back the old MDC
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:15 PM
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You're here to debate everything else. I find it interesting you are not willing to tell me what I've written that is incorrect, when I said I'm willing to learn.
You can look right up there in the page. The inaccuracies begin with your very first sentence. I don't mean to be mean, but when it comes to constitutional issues, we are quite obviously not going to be able to communicate well. It's not worth our time to "debate" the Constitution.

The link I provided is highly relevant to this entire discussion. Once you have read and understand everything on that page, we can have a debate. You can signal your readiness by posting a thoughtful comment based on something you read there.

Quote:
So why have you been asking to know the OP's religion? Why didn't you just ask what her religious reason is?
I'd be interested to know both. If, for instance, she were a Jehovah's Witness or something similar, it would be interesting and obviously relevant, as people with those sorts of belief systems, who actually worship in that sort of faith, can be presumed to honestly have a religious basis for an exemption. If she were to say something like, "Well, I've never gone to church but I don't want to vaccinate because I'm afraid of them and don't think I should have to do it", we would obviously have a situation like the one pointed out in the news article, which does seem to be common and increasing. If she were to hold a valid personal religious belief against vaccination, that would be something else again-- and I'd be seriously interested to hear about the exact belief and its basis.

Quote:
How could you possibly have any statistics on what is in someone's heart? Again, you seem to be getting specific religions mixed up with personal religious beliefs.
Nope, never mixed those up and never will. As the news article notes, though, the problem of abuse of the religious exemptions is increasing rapidly.
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:16 PM
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Well, this whole discussion could be shut down by pointing out that most states (mine included) use the word "religion" to mean sincerely held belief.

My religion does not prohibit vaccination. By I sincerely believe that they are harmful to my children. Therefore, I have submitted a religious exemption, as have many of my church friends. And we have done so with a clear conscience before God.
EDIT: I misread your comment, I think. What state are you in? Is that literally true, that anyone with a sincerely held belief holds a religious belief? That's truly amazing, and I'd like to see the evidence.
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:20 PM
 
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As the news article notes, though, the problem of abuse of the religious exemptions is increasing rapidly.
For those who at their core do not believe that religious exemptions should be allowed, or that a person could actually have a religious belief that excludes vaccination, it could be considered "abuse." For the rest of us, it could be considered availing ourselves of the right to religious freedom. Just because the number of people who are claiming religious exemption exceeds some weird quota that you have in your head, doesn't make it any less valid.
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:26 PM
 
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EDIT: I misread your comment, I think. What state are you in? Is that literally true, that anyone with a sincerely held belief holds a religious belief? That's truly amazing, and I'd like to see the evidence.
Evidence:
29 C.F.R. 1605.1

Quote:
In most cases whether or not a practice or belief is religious is not at issue. However, in those cases in which the issue does exist, the Commission will define religious practices to include moral or ethical beliefs as to what is right and wrong which are sincerely held with the strength of traditional religious views.
...
The fact that no religious group espouses such beliefs or the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to belong may not accept such belief will not determine whether the belief is a religious belief of the employee or prospective employee
.
Any state that has specified in their state laws what has already been ruled by the Supreme Court AND written in the US Code of Federal Regulations, is only clarifying that their law is in compliance with Federal law on the issue.
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:30 PM
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Any state that has specified in their state laws what has already been ruled by the Supreme Court AND written in the US Code of Federal Regulations, is only clarifying that their law is in compliance with Federal law on the issue.
So you're saying that any state which goes against a particular federal labor regulation, in defining religious beliefs in a completely different context, is subject to preemption on that basis? Wow. You just blew my mind.

I think you need to go read that summary I posted as well. Come back and see me after you've done that.
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:59 PM
 
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If, for instance, she were a Jehovah's Witness or something similar, it would be interesting and obviously relevant, as people with those sorts of belief systems, who actually worship in that sort of faith, can be presumed to honestly have a religious basis for an exemption
JW's aren't opposed to vaccination, so that would be irrelevant.

Bring back the old MDC
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:06 PM
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JW's aren't opposed to vaccination, so that would be irrelevant.
(that's me eating my hat... bad example)

Blessedwithboys, what state are you in? I'm curious. That language would seem to state a combined religious/moral objection to me, so would be pretty open.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:18 AM
 
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I have removed many posts from this thread which were in violation of our UA and/or vax forum guidelines. I have also removed posts which were responding to those removed posts.

Please remain focused on the OP's questions regarding vax exemption for preschool. If you wish to continue any discussions pertaining to legal definitions, please do so privately rather than derailing this discussion. Should any further violations of our guidelines arise, the thread will be closed or removed from the boards.
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