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#31 of 48 Old 09-14-2010, 04:29 PM
 
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it just dawned on me that we aren't suppose to discuss conspiracy theories, just in case it gets the OPs thread closed. I would erase my posts but they have been quoted by others already >.<

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#32 of 48 Old 09-14-2010, 04:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by heathergirl67 View Post
...while they researched the matter further. IMO, it would have been very foolish of them to introduce new vaccines, which could have who-knows-what problems, based on unproven concerns. I guess I just don't understand why you think that all of these people are so evil, to purposely hurt children so that they can (potentially) profit from it.
I don't think that the people pushing questionable new vaccines are evil. I think they believe that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks, and that any people injured as a result of the vaccine are collateral damage in the war against whatever disease the vaccine is touted to prevent.

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#33 of 48 Old 09-14-2010, 04:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post
You stated "many"
You're right, I did state "many". Strike the many and the statement would be a more accurate representation of my beliefs. I'm sorry I misspoke.

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So, back to my original question, do you believe the CDC has a disproportionately high number of evil people?

Or, is the world just full of evil people and the CDC is representative of this?
Compared to what? The population at large? It was estimated decades ago that roughly 6% of human beings are psychopaths, with another 12% capable of psychopathic thought patterns, what we might call "situational ethics". Hare's research suggests that those numbers might be even higher today. If corporate and government organizations, by virtue of their almost total lack of accountability, demand for results at any cost (whether it's profits or just fluffy statistics that appease voters), are most conducive to aiding and abetting psychopaths--and it certainly seems that they are--then it would make sense that the CDC or FDA or Merck or [insert large unaccountable organization here] would have a disproportionately higher number of psychopaths than, say, a small town bakery, or a book club.

I really suggest you read Hare's books and the Groves essay; they certainly explain a lot of otherwise seemingly unexplainable things, like how companies like Enron and people like Bernie Madoff can get away with their crimes for so long before getting caught (assuming they ever are).

By the way, a conspiracy theory is the theory that at least two people worked together to do something. If we discount the idea that groups of people work together in mutual self-interest, I'm not sure what we'd be allowed to discuss. Surely no one argues that there are powerful groups of people working together to promote mass vaccination? If we concede that point, we're admitting to a conspiracy.

Conspiracy doesn't automatically mean something evil and hard to believe; if I throw a surprise birthday party for my friend, the guests and I are involved in a conspiracy to keep it secret from the birthday girl. I think the label "conspiracy theory" is used too often to shut down discussions that make others uncomfortable.

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#34 of 48 Old 09-14-2010, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Peainthepod, in my opinion, you are right ON topic with the original post

Merck is a fine organization. Here is an interesting tidbit about them....I am not slandering them in any way, just stating a fact...
"Merck, the pharmaceutical giant, has agreed to pay more than $670 million to settle claims it overcharged the government for drugs and also bribed doctors to prescribe its drugs. It's one of the biggest health care fraud settlements ever.
The case was triggered by a Merck employee who blew the whistle on company practices."
Source http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=18803138

See, the whistleblower was a good person who worked for Merck. There are good people in this world.

http://www.blackherbals.com/merck_ca...ific_fraud.htm
Our only hope is that the corruption in this world will be exposed. That is my only intention for starting this discussion.

 
 
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#35 of 48 Old 09-14-2010, 05:01 PM
 
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I used to work for a big pharma company. Most of the people are regular joe blows trying to climb their way to the top. The follow SOPs and the Merck Manuals. They believe they are doing the right thing. They dont know any better, and they dont try to get both sides of the story. They are just caught up in the rat race like anyone else. It doesnt make it right, but it doesnt make them evil either.

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#36 of 48 Old 09-14-2010, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Lydiah, I agree with you (see post #26)

 
 
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#37 of 48 Old 09-14-2010, 05:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post
I don't believe that overall there are hundred or thousands of people at the CDC who are inherently evil people trying to harm children for profit. These people are generally government workers and, except for the ones at the top, who make government wages.

Marnica - Would you describe most of the people at your work as psychopaths? Or, are most people just regular folks trying to do a good job?
of course most are regular folks trying to do a good job, never said otherwise. I believe there are psychopaths/evil everywhere, but most folks are normal hardworking people trying to do the best they can. BUT if the psychopath happens to be in a position of power (like they are where I work), than the impact can be significant.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#38 of 48 Old 09-14-2010, 06:14 PM
 
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Wow! There was a lot of posting while I was away!

This is what I said:

Quote:
I guess I just don't understand why you think that all of these people are so evil, to purposely hurt children so that they can (potentially) profit from it.
I bolded one part so that you can see what I said better. There was fifty experts at that Simpsonwood meeting. In order for them all to decide that 'We recognize these shots are hurting kids, but we want to continue them because we want money', that would mean that all fifty of these people would have to agree. And all fifty people would have to agree to keep it quiet because of their plan's obvious evil intentions. That is a conspiracy theory, to be sure. BTW, a conspiracy is generally seen as something evil. But I think that the poster who argued that it wasn't already knew that.

I am familiar with what sociopaths are. I read a book about that topic once that estimated that up to ten percent of society are sociopaths, though not all of them are evil. I find it extremely hard to believe that the fifty people called to that meeting, who were experts in their fields, were all sociopaths. Which is what would be required, for the OP's theory to be true.
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#39 of 48 Old 09-14-2010, 08:02 PM
 
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Please keep in mind that:
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Through your direct or indirect participation here you agree to make a personal effort to maintain a comfortable and respectful atmosphere for our guests and members. Please avoid negative characterizations and generalizations about others to respect the diversity of our online community
Lets move back on topic regarding the vaccine issue. Any posts casting suspicion on specific individuals or posts containing negative characterizations about people or groups of people will be removed. Should the thread continue to stray off topic it will be either closed or removed from the board.
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#40 of 48 Old 09-14-2010, 08:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by heathergirl67 View Post
Wow! There was a lot of posting while I was away!

This is what I said:



I bolded one part so that you can see what I said better. There was fifty experts at that Simpsonwood meeting. In order for them all to decide that 'We recognize these shots are hurting kids, but we want to continue them because we want money', that would mean that all fifty of these people would have to agree. And all fifty people would have to agree to keep it quiet because of their plan's obvious evil intentions. That is a conspiracy theory, to be sure. BTW, a conspiracy is generally seen as something evil. But I think that the poster who argued that it wasn't already knew that.

I am familiar with what sociopaths are. I read a book about that topic once that estimated that up to ten percent of society are sociopaths, though not all of them are evil. I find it extremely hard to believe that the fifty people called to that meeting, who were experts in their fields, were all sociopaths. Which is what would be required, for the OP's theory to be true.
While I don't think simpsonwood was a secret undercover plot to destroy children via vaccines. What you are saying is most likely not the case. all 50 peope would NOT have to agree to "continue to hurt chilren for profit".

Have the read the entire transcript? I really can't see how anyone that has read the entire transcript cannot see that there is clearly something amiss there? to each his own I suppose

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#41 of 48 Old 09-15-2010, 02:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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To those of you who cannot believe that large organizations are capable of being dishonest, sometimes harmful.....research the controversy over the FDA's approval of Aspartame. Wow!
http://www.google.com/search?q=FDA+a...ient=firefox-a

 
 
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#42 of 48 Old 09-18-2010, 12:01 AM
 
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To those of you who cannot believe that large organizations are capable of being dishonest, sometimes harmful.....research the controversy over the FDA's approval of Aspartame. Wow!
Wow, indeed. The first Google result has a picture of a kid drawing "chemtrails" on a blackboard at the home page, and the second is hawking an "aspartame detox program." I don't really see how adding on unrelated conspiracy theories does much to validate the thread's original one.
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#43 of 48 Old 09-18-2010, 01:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I love how people throw around the term "conspiracy theory" to make us sound like nutcases. Just because you say this is a conspiracy theory does not make it false.

I posted a Google search because if I had chosen a website on Aspartame, I knew there would have a problem with whatever site I had chosen. I figured the readers could do a basic Google search, and pick whatever Aspartame site they wanted. It's funny, I get slammed either way. This is what I get for trying to raise awareness.

The whole point of this is to understand what we, the public, are dealing with. Come on, do ANY basic search on the history of the approval of Aspartame. That stuff is poison, no question about it. Look at how the FDA would not pass it, so Rumsfeld decided to get it passed however he could.

"This team hand-picked Dr. Arthur Hull Hayes, Jr., to be the new FDA commissioner. Dr. Hayes, a pharmacologist, had no previous experience with food additives before being appointed director of the FDA."

More....
"One of Hayes' first official acts as FDA chief was to approve the use of aspartame as an artificial sweetener in dry goods July 18, 1981. [Rumsfeld had tried to get it approved for Years before] In order to accomplish this feat, Hayes had to overlook the scuttled grand jury investigation of Searle, overcome the Bressler Report, ignore the PBOI,s recommendations and pretend aspartame did not chronically sicken and kill thousands of lab animals."

Seriously, these agencies are supposed to protect the public. FDA, CDC, etc. Look at what they have done in the past. The Aspartame info is relevant to the CDC articles in the original post, if you want to see what these agencies are capable of. There are so many more horror stories like this. Just look at what happens when a drug is found to be harmful (Vioxx for example.) There is almost always a cover up of some kind.

All I want to do is to get people thinking about the trust they put into these agencies. If you look into the history of the CDC and FDA, you will find FACTS that are shocking. Can't you people see that I am trying to show you things that might Help you? Is it really a conspiracy theory that there has been corruption in the food and medical industry? No.

They have completely lost my trust.

P.S. Chemtrails.....LOL! You know, I found a mainstream news article where the UK government admitted to spraying bio weapons over the public.
"Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told."
I can't really talk about this issue on this forum though, but here is a link to the article if you are interested. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...medicalscience

 
 
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#44 of 48 Old 09-18-2010, 03:20 AM
 
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Nobody ever said anything about trusting a government agency just because they're a government agency. Or anything like that. Nobody has denied that there has been corruption in probably every major organization, to some degree. All the detractors are saying is that in this case there's no evidence of a group of fifty people colluding to secretly harm all of America's children so that they can profit from it. And for you to see that and then assume that we must be thinking, "Well, if the CDC says it's true, then it must be!" is actually pretty insulting. Really insulting. Just as insulting as someone who thinks that non-vaxxers don't vax just because Jenny McCarthy said it's cool.

And we're using the term "conspiracy theory" because that's exactly what it sounds like- a conspiracy theory.
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#45 of 48 Old 09-18-2010, 05:10 PM
 
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Please stick to the vaccine issue in this thread. If we continue to veer off topic regarding aspartame or chemtrails or other non-vax issues I will close the discussion.
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#46 of 48 Old 09-20-2010, 04:41 PM
 
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BeckyBird, I agree with you that it is so frustrating that people think conspiracy theory and automatically dismiss anything you are trying to say. There has been a huge propaganda campaign to persuade people think this way. If you question anything you are a conspiracy theorist and a crazy.

As far as the CDC, of course the whole organization is not psychopathic but all you need is a few people at the top and it is known that psychopaths are drawn towards positions of great power. So it is at least possible.

I really don't understand why people are so trusting. It's not like large groups of people have never banned together for the harm of others. I think Americans have lived so long in safety that we have become docile sheep unable to believe anything truly horrible could happen to us.

I'm sorry that I did not talk solely about vaccines and I really hope this thread does not get shut down but I really believe its all part of a larger picture. I love MDC but it is so frustrating that anytime we start to talk about real topics of importance it gets shut down.

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#47 of 48 Old 09-20-2010, 05:48 PM
 
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#48 of 48 Old 09-21-2010, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the support, Karamom!

You know, if I am wrong (and I sincerely hope I am) at least I am doing this for the right intentions. I want to raise awareness, that is all.
*And thank you mods for being so patient with me!*

 
 
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