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#1 of 24 Old 09-16-2010, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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An acquaintence of mine vaxed her kids on schedule until her son got G. Barre. At that point, she did religious exemptions for all of her children. Well, time has passed and her fear of vaxes has waned and now her fear of VPD is flaring up.

In the middle of this, the school hired a new registrar who called to tell her her kids couldn't come to school the next day unless they were caught up on vaxes. Apparently, the registrar was "unaware" that one could exempt one's children from vax requirements.

So my friend tells the registrar to look again for the exemption, and it is found right there in the file, but then she mentions she wants to to a tetanus booster for her oldest dc. So the registrar tells her to go ahead and do whatever vaxes she wants and then just hit the HD for a new form with a date after the date of the last vax.

This is NOT a thread for debate regarding her choice to vax. I just want to hear people's takes on what the registrar recommended, and whether they think the possibility exists that she will lose her right to claim exemptions for all of her children.

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#2 of 24 Old 09-16-2010, 11:19 PM
 
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I think that is BAD advice. Religious exemptions are nearly always for being against the "practice of vaccination" and don't allow one to pick and choose; there are one or two states with semi-ambiguous religious exemption language.

She could vax "under the table" but could be a problem if your state has a registry.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#3 of 24 Old 09-16-2010, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree it's bad advice. I understand the "practice of vaccination" as opposed to "ingredients in vaccines" angle, and tried to explain it in an email to her, but she insists it's okay since the school official recommended it.

I also told my friend about the SHOTS registry, and told her that if she really needed to get her dc the shot, she should go out of state to avoid it being added, but out nearest neighbor is a 3-4 hour drive away, so that's not going to happen.

Do you think that if she gets "caught" she could lose her right to claim the exemption? If she did, would it be just for the child who was vaxed, or for all of her children?

I feel very torn here, because I love my friend and I love her kids, and I was around when her dc was semi-paralyzed after the reaction, so I don't want to jam them up if the registrar knew her advice was wrong but was just trying to help her get the one vax for one kid while not having to "catch up" the one with the reaction. But I also feel some sort of weird need to make sure The System isn't being abused. I am considering mentioning it casually to the principal when I'm in the school tomorrow..."Hey, you may not know this, but your new registrar is giving out some slightly unlawful counsel regarding vax exemptions. Can you look over this info I printed for her, and pass it along to her?"

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#4 of 24 Old 09-16-2010, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sorry, I tend to ramble, so to be clear, my main question is: Can doing one vax for just one kid and then getting a new exemption from the Health Dept cause my friend to lose her right to use the exemptions and lead to a requirement to have all her kids caught up?

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#5 of 24 Old 09-17-2010, 02:07 PM
 
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YES! This happened to a friend of mine. Her children were totally unvaxed, but one had a really horrible case of asthma and her dr's scared her into the Pertussis vaccine for her then 3yr old. Well, off to school he went with a religious exemption on hand. Problem? We went a registry and they pulled the pertussis vaccine off of it. So they declined her exemption (we don't have philosophical here) and she was required to get him caught up.
I'm sure it depends on the state, but this was my experience.

Steph, wife to C, mama to O :, E , and I :.
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#6 of 24 Old 09-17-2010, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for sharing that. See I'm really torn because part of me wants to mind my own business but part of me knows that my friend isn't nearly as well-read as I am on the subject of exemptions in our state. If she felt giving her children all of the recommended vaccines was best for them, I could get behind that. But I know she is not going to give any more to her injured child, and she simply doesn't understand what she's risking.

I do want to point out though, that in our state, it is quite possible to give some vaxes and then stop and file an exemption. In your friend's case, did she have the exemption already filed for older children prior to givng the one vax? I could see how that could screw it up. Did she have to catch up all her kids?

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#7 of 24 Old 09-17-2010, 05:38 PM
 
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I would totally tell her, but then I'm big on "just so you know" type info.
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#8 of 24 Old 09-17-2010, 05:51 PM
 
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I agree it's bad advice. I understand the "practice of vaccination" as opposed to "ingredients in vaccines" angle, and tried to explain it in an email to her, but she insists it's okay since the school official recommended it.
Um, would that be the same "official" that didn't know exemptions existed?

Schools get audited by the state department of health; if she isn't following the law what the "school official" said doesn't matter (ignorance of the law is not an excuse, she cannot blame the "official" for giving her bad information).

I would say that she risking her religious exemption for all her children if she vaxes in state. Though the law says "the student's beliefs" I doubt the state would allow that her children each have individual beliefs that are also separate from the parents.

Virginia Code Related to Immunizations § 22.1-271.2 - Immunization Requirements:

Quote:
No certificate of immunization shall be required for the admission to school of any student if (i) the student or his parent submits an affidavit to the admitting official stating that the administration of immunizing agentsconflicts with the student's religious tenets or practices;

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#9 of 24 Old 09-17-2010, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The state is FL and I know we have no provision for selective vax, we have no philosophical exemption. Our religious exemption is essentially philosophical in the sense that religion is defined as "deeply held personal belief". However, you still must deeply hold the personal belief that the practice of vaccination is wrong. Meaning once you do one, you are not entitled to use the religious exemption again.

Like I said, I am torn bc I have yet to meet the new registrar and for all I know she is pro-vax choice and gave my friend the advice on the DL just to try to help her out. Maybe she meant well but didn't realize her advice was unlawful. Or maybe she is super pro-vax and will say anything to get someone to vax. I don't want to put my friend in a bad spot bc if it comes down to her losing her right to use the exemption and she is forced to either vax all her kids or HS, and her already-damaged child sustains further damage, it will be my fault for opening my big fat mouth.

OTOH, I have tried to explain to my friend that she CAN NOT rescind her current exemption to vax and then go get another exemption afterward, but she is choosing to believe the registrar instead of me, her BFF, who is actually the person who told her exemptions existed, explained the definition of "religious exemption", and walked her through the process of obtaining and filing the exemption. So if she decides to try to get away with it, she still may get caught. Our state does yearly audits, so by next year she will have to vax her damaged child anyway.

This is more an ethics issue than a vax issue, I think. Just in typing this, I have decided to quietly alert the principal that his new employee is dispensing incorrect information. I've got some info on my computer that I will print for him to back up what I tell him.

I just hate that the result is that my friend will have to choose between either fully vaxing all her kids or not giving one child a vaccine she has decided she wants to give. But I also hate that she is doing tetanus out of fear without knowing how little risk her dc is really in for various reasons. I will see the principal on Tuesday and I'll come back with an update then.

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#10 of 24 Old 09-17-2010, 07:48 PM
 
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You told her, she chose not to believe you. Maybe she did because she just wants to vax now, regardless it's on her at this point.
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#11 of 24 Old 09-17-2010, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, I think you are right. She's lost her nerve, but I completely respect her choice to vax.

I just found some great info that all but says what the registrar told her to do is wrong. The website is know-vaccines.org. Is that generally recognized as reputable?

And as a side point, I just learned something interesting...exemptions are loaded into the registry just like vax records. And it appears exemptions are not subject to the opt-out. Figures. But what that means is that her old vax records, as well as her exemptions, are in the system. So when she does a vax and then another exemption, it's all totally on the radar, and in the next annual audit, I have no doubt that it will get caught. I thought it might fly under the radar bc I didn't know exemptions were registered as well.

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#12 of 24 Old 09-17-2010, 09:30 PM
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he registrar told her to do is wrong. The website is know-vaccines.org. Is that generally recognized as reputable?
No. Here's a sample of the misinformation on that site:

http://know-vaccines.org/yurko.html

"Noted Australian researcher Vera Scheibner, after reviewing Baby Alan's medical records and other well-documented data on Shaken Baby Syndrome, concludes that many of the cases attributed to this cause have actually been vaccine-related injuries or deaths. The majority of SBS symptoms occur after the administration of vaccines whereas a minority of cases is due to documented birth injuries and pre-eclamptic and eclamptic states of the mothers."

Here's the truth on Scheibner:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viera_Scheibner

I guess she might be noted for micropaleontology research-- but she is certainly not noted for her medical or vaccination research, has never published anything on those topics in a peer-reviewed journal, etc.

This is the worst sort of garbage-- explaining away battered baby brains in order to support mass hysteria.
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#13 of 24 Old 09-19-2010, 06:06 PM
 
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Another problem with that site is in the explanation of religious exemptions. They state that objecting to aborted fetal tissue cell lines is religious when the courts have ruled that is a philosophical exemption. Using that as justification for a religious exemption puts you at risk for loosing the exemption.
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#14 of 24 Old 09-19-2010, 07:54 PM
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FernG, that is interesting to hear, but it is also important to remember that religious exemptions are provided for by state law, so a particular "bad" or "good" case based on such state law (whatever that means in a particular context to a particular person) will be only of persuasive value in another state.
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#15 of 24 Old 09-20-2010, 11:57 AM
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How does one find out if there is a registry in their state? I was thinking of doing a Dtap for my 5 1/2 yr old b/c of the pertussis increase (and I am due w/ a new baby in March). But I don't want anything else, and we have a religious exemption. So this was a really important thread to find.
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#16 of 24 Old 09-21-2010, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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AFAIK, all states have a registry. I could be wrong though. I know for a fact that in my state, it's an opt-out system, which means that you are registered unless you specifically opt-out.

You cannot claim a religious exemption and then go back and vax unless you are willing to lose your exemption. From what I am learning, in my state, when you get the exemption at the Health Dept., it's not recorded (well, I alredy knew that) but when the school is audited each year, they send a copy to the state registry (just learned that part). So if you choose to claim religious exemption, then vax, and then file a new exemption, or even just vax and try to fly under the radar, you will be caught in no more than one year, and you will then lose your exemption and be required to fully vax your older child.

You know, it isn't really necessary to risk the health of one of your children to protect the other. You might be put at ease to read up on pertussis, especially how to treat it safely at home.

And I won't be using that website when I talk to the principal today. I'll just lay out the facts about the exemption being sent to the registry and the yearly audit and let him go from there with research.

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#17 of 24 Old 09-21-2010, 12:15 PM
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Does the pediatrician enter the vaccines received into the state registry?
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#18 of 24 Old 09-21-2010, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, whoever gives it enters it. So it could be your private pediatrician, the health dept, or even the hospital ER in some cases.

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#19 of 24 Old 09-21-2010, 04:14 PM
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That was my next question - whether or not an ER would enter if my kid stepped on a rusty nail and I took him there for a tetanus.

Also - if my ped is a "Vaccine Friendly" ped on Dr Sear's page, and she doesn't vax her own child, do you think she enters that vaccine info into a database? Would she get in huge trouble if she didn't?

We actually have philosphophical exemptions here in our state now (I think Obama will try to get rid of them or Hillary Clinton) but we may move to a state that just has religious and medical.
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#20 of 24 Old 09-21-2010, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My understanding is that they are required to enter the info unless you have opted out, but I have no idea how that would work and it may vary by state too.

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#21 of 24 Old 09-22-2010, 03:50 PM
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How would I find info about opting out in my state?
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#22 of 24 Old 09-22-2010, 07:43 PM
 
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How would I find info about opting out in my state?
It's easy. You google it with your state name and "opt out vaccine registry"
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#23 of 24 Old 09-22-2010, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I decided to go ahead and say something to the principal. I asked him if this was the first school job for the new registrar and he said it was. I just simply said "I think she may need some info on how vax exemptions work in this state bc she told one of the parents that had an exemption that they could get one shot and then just go get a new exemption from the HD"

He about flipped! We talked about how the exemption isn't recorded at the time you obtain it, but it is sent to the state registry once the school receives it. He admitted that the parent would get "caught" in the annual audit and would lose the exemptions for all their children. He's really a great guy and promised to talk to his new employee to make sure she didn't give out unlawful advice again.

Now I just have to find a way to convince my friend the registrar was wrong and I was right. Again, I don't care if she chooses to start vaxing again (well, I do, but what I mean to say is it's none of my beeswax), I would just hate for her to think it was ok to do one and get a new exemption and then get hit with the news that she has to catch up all her kiddos, including the vax-damaged one. Whatever she decides, she should at least have a clear picture of the consequences of every possible decision.

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#24 of 24 Old 09-22-2010, 10:02 PM
 
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He about flipped! We talked about how the exemption isn't recorded at the time you obtain it, but it is sent to the state registry once the school receives it. He admitted that the parent would get "caught" in the annual audit and would lose the exemptions for all their children. He's really a great guy and promised to talk to his new employee to make sure she didn't give out unlawful advice again.

Now I just have to find a way to convince my friend the registrar was wrong and I was right. Again, I don't care if she chooses to start vaxing again (well, I do, but what I mean to say is it's none of my beeswax), I would just hate for her to think it was ok to do one and get a new exemption and then get hit with the news that she has to catch up all her kiddos, including the vax-damaged one. Whatever she decides, she should at least have a clear picture of the consequences of every possible decision.
I would tell her about the meeting. If she does not believe the principle over a new employee who did not know religious exemptions existed, then .

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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