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-   -   How getting measles this week has made this non-vaxer think hard. (http://www.mothering.com/forum/47-vaccinations/1293288-how-getting-measles-week-has-made-non-vaxer-think-hard.html)

pinkytulip 01-22-2011 12:49 PM

So my daughter got measles and my husband got it, too. We have been traveling domestically and have not been home, but we were no where that was obvious to catch it. My daughter is your classic unvaxed child with an outstanding immune system. She broke out into her fever and developed a cough, and it did just look like any other cold/ virus in the beginning. The first big thing I learned is that I am sadly unusual that when my child is sick, she doesn't go out. She was conveniently quarantined, visiting grandparents, even before she became contagious, and has therefore, been in contact with no one outside of us. That has made this much easier to get through knowing her case ends with her.

 

On day 4, the rash on her face appeared, and I wanted to know what I was dealing with. The internet pictures are so "worst case scenario" that it was hard to find a match with the rash she had on her face. At the ped's office, the doctor was lovely and gave me no grief about non-vaxing (shocker!). He claimed he hadn't seen a case in 20 years. Measles is a reportable disease, so he explained he had to call the county health department, and then they kept us there so that they could come and take pictures of my daughter. This is where things could have turned bad. Some people may crumble under this bureaucracy experience by feeling helpless or by feeling angry and invaded. I handle these types of situations pretty well, so I was always able to appear willing to comply with what they wanted to do, yet I actually declined everything. I did not allow photographs or bloodwork to confirm the case. Had my daughter been in school, for example, and exposed others, I probably would have surrendered to it all to help them contain an outbreak. 

 

We are on day 7 with my daughter and she is healing by the book. I am aware of the potential for complications and am being overly conservative about how long she have to endure bedrest, 2 weeks from start to finish.

 

To make things more fun, I am pregnant, and had to decide whether or not to receive the measles immunoglobulin . My rubella titres are good, so I am going to assume that my measles titres from my MMR are good, too.

 

None of this has actually made me think that differently about my vaccine choices for my child. I have always felt that the MMR was far more effective than others on the schedule, and it would have always been the "one" I would have done. But I am very happy that my daughter will have lifetime immunity to it, too. I will also hope for her to get chicken pox, rubella, and mumps on her own, too. But then I think I will do titres in highschool for her and get her vaccinated for which ever three she still lacks. Those are the only ones I am interested in. I think bacterial vaccines are still a public health menace as much as a help.

 

The wrench in this plan was my husband catching measles, too. I never saw that coming. This is far more serious, of course. He was vaccinated as a child, too, but I had highschool and college boosters that he may not have gotten. I am sure he will be fine, but we are very fortunate that we coincidentally are with retired grandparents to help us with this incredibly long nursing process. My husband has the type of job that he can miss this much work to heal properly, and others are not in the same boat. He is recovering, but at a much slower pace than my daughter.

 

This experience has made me rethink my vaccine choices for myself. I never had pox and I showed no antibodies to it. I am now going to get the pox vaccine after the birth of this baby so that I can hopefully nurse my kids through it when they get it, and I will make my husband get it too if his titres don't show. There is no way that the next time this happens we will conveniently have grandparents ( who live in another state) around to help like this time.

 

I felt like others on this board might appreciate hearing about my experience, since this is still relatively uncommon.

 

Here's to all of us making the best possible choices for our families, whatever they may be, in promoting good health.


member234098 01-22-2011 01:52 PM

H


pinkytulip 01-22-2011 01:59 PM

6, a good age to have it


ma2two 01-22-2011 08:57 PM

Did you see Koplick's spots? If not, you can't be sure it was measles without a blood test. Next time she gets a blood test for something, you can add on a measles IgG and see if she has evidence of exposure. A positive IgG will not be reported to the health department, because it is evidence of a past, not current infection.


pinkytulip 01-23-2011 04:35 AM

She had had the spots in her mouth too.

 

I agree natural immunity is far superior, but we cannot get natural immunity to rubella if we don't get exposed to it. 

 

Just because I feel I can't risk natural immunity anymore doesn't mean that I don't believe that is best for my daughter. 

 

I absolutely wish the MMR had not been so effective in making natural immunity so hard to acquire. I also think so many women without natural immunity is most dangerous for newborns of mothers who do not have natural immunity.

 


Mirzam 01-23-2011 06:22 AM

1 Attachment(s)

OP, I am curious do you know from where your DD contracted measles? Was this part of an outbreak or a single case? 


pinkytulip 01-23-2011 06:49 AM

No clue at all. we have been traveling visiting family, none of them children. Had to be completely random exposure at a public place. I keep watching the cdc stats and nes for any cases in areas we have been in but there are none, so I am led to believe a flight was likely.


hippy mum 01-23-2011 01:50 PM

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/vaccine-efficacy-how-often-do-vaccines-work/varicella/

 

  Hi, thought I'd give you some info on pox.  I actually wish my kids would catch MM, and I think the likely of it is pretty slim, unless I find an outbreak.  And...it is possible to catch Measles again.  I know families this has happened to.  

  As for CP-our boys and dh caught it last Feb.  It was a domino effect, with the youngest coming down w/ it, then his older brother and dh.  It really wasn't bad for dh, other than him taking a day off work I think.  They actually made him work the first day.  I still had immunity to it, so took care of everyone.  I'm very glad they caught it, and glad to my re-exposure to the natural virus.  It's getting harder to get re-exposed to these viruses, and like Miriam said, at some point, women will no longer have natural immunity to pass on-and that's a problem.  I'm sure there are already generations facing this problem.  

  Curious, when do you plan to get the vaccine?  It's a live vaccine and sheds.  I wouldn't think you'd want to expose a nb to it?

 For stats-you could do a measles check on WHO or CDC.  Though, here at least, they don't report CP, so who knows how accurate the outbreak numbers are for MMR.

http://www.healthmap.org/en/


mcgee 01-23-2011 05:01 PM

My mother is one of those rare people who does not register immunity to measles. She had it several times while growing up. Her OB/GYN did not believe her when she was pregnant with me and insisted that she'd had measles more than once. She brought him medical records to show diagnosed cases, and yet the titres he ordered showed that she had never had it.

 

I came down with the measles when I was about a year old, before I was old enough for the MMR at the time. Obviously I don't remember anything from my measles experience, but according to my mother, it was a typical childhood illness and not overly worrisome.

 

Pinkytulip, I hope your daughter and your husband both recover very soon. ((hugs)) to you, Mama.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrandonsmom View Post

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/vaccine-efficacy-how-often-do-vaccines-work/varicella/

 

  Hi, thought I'd give you some info on pox.  I actually wish my kids would catch MM, and I think the likely of it is pretty slim, unless I find an outbreak.  And...it is possible to catch Measles again.  I know families this has happened to.  

  As for CP-our boys and dh caught it last Feb.  It was a domino effect, with the youngest coming down w/ it, then his older brother and dh.  It really wasn't bad for dh, other than him taking a day off work I think.  They actually made him work the first day.  I still had immunity to it, so took care of everyone.  I'm very glad they caught it, and glad to my re-exposure to the natural virus.  It's getting harder to get re-exposed to these viruses, and like Miriam said, at some point, women will no longer have natural immunity to pass on-and that's a problem.  I'm sure there are already generations facing this problem.  

  Curious, when do you plan to get the vaccine?  It's a live vaccine and sheds.  I wouldn't think you'd want to expose a nb to it?

 For stats-you could do a measles check on WHO or CDC.  Though, here at least, they don't report CP, so who knows how accurate the outbreak numbers are for MMR.

http://www.healthmap.org/en/




Cutie Patootie 01-23-2011 09:21 PM



Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgee View Post

My mother is one of those rare people who does not register immunity to measles. She had it several times while growing up.



I was vaccinated for measles, contracted them, was vaccinated again and contracted them a second time.  The doctors did not believe my mother that I had been vaccinated the first time and vaccinated me again when she brought me in with measles.   


~Charlie's~Angel~ 01-24-2011 04:48 AM

Isn't MMR one of the vaccines that sheds?  So isn't it possible to catch one of the VPD's from someone who has been vaccinated with it recently if you have no immunity?


pinkytulip 01-24-2011 05:33 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Charlie's~Angel~ View Post

Isn't MMR one of the vaccines that sheds?  So isn't it possible to catch one of the VPD's from someone who has been vaccinated with it recently if you have no immunity?


Yes, but you would have to be around a pediatric population, I would think, to make that even remotely likely. I don't believe that is this case here. I think shedding occurs more often in the stool so someone changing diapers at daycare, for example, without proper hygiene is a realistic scenario.


ma2two 01-24-2011 09:55 PM

Rotavirus and oral polio vaccines shed through the stool. MMR can shed, but not through the stool.


Xerxella 01-25-2011 11:12 AM

Pinkytulip - Can I ask what state/area you were traveling through?  Measles seems so uncommon.  Anecdotally, I never hear about a case. 


newmum35 01-27-2011 11:03 PM

how does it shed and can you give source? no possibility through stool? I know I've read that before, but, could have been in error


Ruthla 01-28-2011 06:09 AM

Or, a toddler was recently vaxed, somebody changed the diaper in a public place and didnt' wash their hands properly, touched a surface (restroom doorknob, for example) that your daughter later touched and then she put her hands in her mouth.


member234098 01-28-2011 08:04 AM

.


Subhuti 01-28-2011 08:07 AM

I was in a similar quandry.

 

Getting pertussis before my first child's birth and being thru a complete horror (it lasted 3 months ... it involves literal asphysiation w/each coughing bout) ... it made me decide that I would vax.  I wasn't so worried about adults getting it.  But the absolute terribleness of complications in newborns (which we were facing) is what made me decide being part of the herd and vaxing was the right thing to do.  

 

But I sure understand why people don't vax, or do a modified schedule.  A good friend of mine didn't vax her son, went thru hell to avoid it, was forced by her public school to "catch up" (long story) ... and her son had an moderate allergic reaction.  But he was 5 going on 6.  She clearly did the right thing by avoiding the vaxes for so long.  What if he had been a newborn with the allergic reaction?  Not good.

 

I hope your husband and your daughter do great in their recovery ... and I'm glad you're looking at the upside ... natural immunity for life!!

 

 

 


EarthMamaToBe 01-28-2011 08:35 AM

OP I would suggest YOU get the pox vaccine, I had the pox at 16 and it was truly one of the worst experiences of my life.  My little bro (4) and little sis (9 months) got it as well and it was a normal childhood disease.


tatsu15 05-12-2011 12:56 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by ma2two View Post

Rotavirus and oral polio vaccines shed through the stool. MMR can shed, but not through the stool.



MMR can shed through stool. A mother, who has a son that received the MMR vaccine reacted poorly (she got an acute form of it which caused her to get MS). Her doctor thinks it's from the virus that shed into his stool and she was still changing his diapers during that time.


Marnica 05-12-2011 08:31 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by tatsu15 View Post





MMR can shed through stool. A mother, who has a son that received the MMR vaccine reacted poorly (she got an acute form of it which caused her to get MS). Her doctor thinks it's from the virus that shed into his stool and she was still changing his diapers during that time.


Yes, and it can shed via the urine as well. Secondary transmission of measles  has never been documented. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened as with the above posters story, but it is probably fairly unlikely.
 

 


MommatoGray 05-17-2011 01:48 PM

Glad your babe is feeling better hope DH feels better really soon!

 

I don't want to hijack this thread. But I do have a question - I have a 4 1/2 month old, unvaxed. And while I was pregnant I showed no titers for rubella, even though I was vaxed as a child. So what should I do now? I was planning on getting it before getting pregnant again, but wanted to wait till I finished BF (not sure when that will be). And now as I read this post it seems that rubella vaccine sheds, so does that mean DS could get it from me? Help pleasesmile.gif

 

Also as a side, I am quite comfortable about not vaxing my DS, but constantly worry about Hib? Should I worry about him contracting Hib? Or is the vaccine less risky then the benefit? I don't know, man all I do is read all the time about this, and Hib is one that keeps me questioning my decison not to vax. I am at home and EBF.

 

Thanks. I don't know what I would do without this forum.


Marnica 05-18-2011 10:37 AM



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MommatoGray View Post

Glad your babe is feeling better hope DH feels better really soon!

 

I don't want to hijack this thread. But I do have a question - I have a 4 1/2 month old, unvaxed. And while I was pregnant I showed no titers for rubella, even though I was vaxed as a child. So what should I do now? I was planning on getting it before getting pregnant again, but wanted to wait till I finished BF (not sure when that will be). And now as I read this post it seems that rubella vaccine sheds, so does that mean DS could get it from me? Help pleasesmile.gif

 

Also as a side, I am quite comfortable about not vaxing my DS, but constantly worry about Hib? Should I worry about him contracting Hib? Or is the vaccine less risky then the benefit? I don't know, man all I do is read all the time about this, and Hib is one that keeps me questioning my decison not to vax. I am at home and EBF.

 

Thanks. I don't know what I would do without this forum.


yeah - HIB was the one that I struggled with/consdiered as well. My DS started daycare at 3 months too. I breastfed him until almost 3. If your child is at home with you and breastfed, the liklihood of hib infection would be practically nil. There are lots of studies about the protection breastfeeding provides against HIB. Have you done a forum search? there are lots of posts and threada about this very topic. As for the rubella - yes it can shed, but I think the risk is more theoretical than anything else. I would certainly not get it for yourself  while you are BF though!

 


 

 


Emmeline II 05-19-2011 07:29 AM


 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MommatoGray View Post
 And now as I read this post it seems that rubella vaccine sheds, so does that mean DS could get it from me? Help pleasesmile.gif

 

 

The rubella vaccine is given for the benefit of pregnant women, not the child who is recieving it.


northcountrymamma 05-19-2011 08:03 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by miriam View Post

The package insert for MMR states that the vaccine can shed through nasal droplets...for 7-10 days after vax.



Can I just ask (sorry if this is an ignorant question...I just haven't thought of it in a while). If the MMR vaccine sheds through nasal droplets, why aren't more unvaccinated children getting the diseases? is it uncommon? I know that here in canada the MMR vax is given at age 1, this is also coincidently when children start going to daycare here as our mat leaves end at one year. But I haven't heard of a measles (or mumps) outbreak here in a long time. 

 

 


CourtBChase 05-19-2011 11:17 AM

I just wanted to add to this conversation, for anyone considering MMR (or rubella) for an adult, or waiting until high school for your children, please look into the potential auto-immune side effects in girls after puberty.  The rates are really high, for a vaccine reaction, and can be lasting.

 


member234098 05-20-2011 01:48 PM

.


PrincessFiona 05-22-2011 05:00 PM

Hi, Im so confused why parents with vax kids believe they are at risk around unvax kids? its makes so sense.  But in this scenario, an unvax kid contracted measles somehow..went to school unknowing at the time, infected the kids in his class who are all vaccinated. Can this actually happen? And if so, whats the point in vaccinating? THe thing with this scenario..which is obviously what parents fear..is that a kid who IS vax could have just as easily caught that measles themselves had they been exposed to it, from some random adult on a flight for example.

 

Can you see how it is just going around in circles, one thing contradicts another..it makes NO sense.

 

Any sign of sickness fair enough the child should be kept at home, isolated from anyone until he's better.

 

its just so plain and simple and clear that I dont understand what parents are so afraid of when it comes to an unvax kid?? if they are relying on Herd Immunity..thats BS..because an infected adult can pass it on to a vax child anywhere anytime...sure maybe the symptoms might be less severe?? so we've been told..but doesnt that defeat the purpose of calling it Immunisation... boggles my mind.


Marnica 05-23-2011 08:29 AM



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessFiona View Post

Hi, Im so confused why parents with vax kids believe they are at risk around unvax kids? its makes so sense.  But in this scenario, an unvax kid contracted measles somehow..went to school unknowing at the time, infected the kids in his class who are all vaccinated. Can this actually happen? And if so, whats the point in vaccinating? THe thing with this scenario..which is obviously what parents fear..is that a kid who IS vax could have just as easily caught that measles themselves had they been exposed to it, from some random adult on a flight for example.

 

Can you see how it is just going around in circles, one thing contradicts another..it makes NO sense.

 

Any sign of sickness fair enough the child should be kept at home, isolated from anyone until he's better.

 

its just so plain and simple and clear that I dont understand what parents are so afraid of when it comes to an unvax kid?? if they are relying on Herd Immunity..thats BS..because an infected adult can pass it on to a vax child anywhere anytime...sure maybe the symptoms might be less severe?? so we've been told..but doesnt that defeat the purpose of calling it Immunisation... boggles my mind.


I hear you and agree. BUT this is what the party line says.....unvaxed children are a threat to herd immunity, that no vaccine is 100% effective so that unvaxed child could pass on measles to a vaxed child and this is possible because in that child who was vaccinated the vaccine didn't work. Also there are children who are yoo young for the MMR or who are too sick to be vaccinated and herd immunity is relied upon to protect those children. So really it's the pesky non-vaxers who are screwing with herd immunity because over 95% of the population needs to be up to date on their mmr for it to be effective in regards to herd immunity. BUT there is no way that number will ever be reached IMO because most adults are not up to date. Many adults have had 1 MMR because that's what was required to eradicate measles back then - until they discovered opps 1 is not enough - now you need 2. How they come up with their numbers in terms of what percentage of people need to be vaccinated in order for herd immunity to be effective is totally arbitrary.
 

 


SundayCrepes 05-23-2011 08:54 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkytulip View Post
 I never had pox and I showed no antibodies to it. I am now going to get the pox vaccine after the birth of this baby so that I can hopefully nurse my kids through it when they get it, and I will make my husband get it too if his titres don't show. 

Please research this. I don't think you can give immunities through breastmilk if you got the vaccine rather than the disease. Also, I have heard that if someone who had actual chickenpox nurses their child while the child has chickenpox that it can prevent the child from developing their own immunities.



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