The Autism-Vaccine Debate: Why it won't go away - Mothering Forums

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Old 02-11-2011, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/autism-vaccine-_b_817879.html

 

I thought this might be of interest to everyone.

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Old 02-11-2011, 08:46 AM
 
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Nice article! Thanks for sharing.

 

Here is my take (which is not necessarily from the article - but my own POV)

 

Autism rates have risen.  I believe this to be true with all my heart, based on things i have seen and research I have done.  There are those who disagree and think we are just diagnosing it more nowadays - but I do not think that alone accounts for the meteoric rise in autism rates.  

 

If there has been a significant rise in the rate of autism, it cannot only be genetic, it must be partly environmental.

 

I suspect the cause of autism is multi-causal.  Someone talked about a pot theory once.  

Take a pot.  Throw in genetic tendancy, throw in exposure to environmental toxins of one sort or another, throw in infections and antibiotics, throw in a boy baby, throw in vaccines.....if the pot overflows you may have autism.   Many of these items you have no control over - vaccines you do.

 

I do not think vaccines cause autism - I think it is multi causal and vaccines may or may not be a part.  It is something I can control however, and because the risks of not vaccinating are small, I abstain.

 

There are many on this forum who skip vaccines for reasons unrelated to autism.  I am autism focused but I have 2 nephews on the spectrum.  

 

 

 

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Old 02-11-2011, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I absolutely agree with you that it's a combination of factors causing autism, some genetic and some environmental.

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Old 02-12-2011, 01:30 PM
 
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  It won't go away until someone gets the nerve to actually admit that vaccines may actually have a connection.  

If you think about it-vaccines are untouchable.  Drugs, food etc-it seems there is no problem admitting that everything else may be a factor in Autism, or other illness and allergies, but when it comes to vaccines....Just look at how long to get the DTP changed, or mercury removed.  Think of the backlash if they ever admitted that vaccines may have a connection to Autsim.  Why is it accepted that people have reactions and get sick from everything BUT vaccines?  

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Old 02-14-2011, 07:46 PM
 
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My mother, whom I was very close to, died a long horrible death at the ripe old age of 50 due to a rare neurological disease that is somewhat similar to Parkinsons Disease.  Her doctors believe that her illenss was caused by her exposure to a neurological toxin in the water that she was drinking at her work. After going through this experience we found out that everyones body reacts to neurotoxins in unique ways.  So if one person is exposed to a neurotoxin they may develope MS if another person is exposed to the same neurotoxin they may develop my Mom's disease.  It's totally up to the unique individual as to how their body will react

So if it's common knowledge that different neurotoxins effect everyone differently and we know that vax's have documented neurological effects on people (seizures, encephalitis, MS etc) then why is it so hard to believe that there may be a possibility that vax's are capable of causing autism?

 

For me personally I AM concerned about the neurological effects of vax's particularly because my Mom having the disease that she had may mean that my kids and myself are prone to neurological toxins.  I also know that I'm allergic to heavy metals so even more reason to protect my kids IMHO.  So even though I have concerns about the neurological effects of vax's I must admit that Autism isn't high on my list of worries BUT I definitely see how the potential for vax's to cause autism could be there.

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Old 02-16-2011, 02:07 PM
 
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Epidemiological studies would show an association between vaccines and autism, or any neurological disorder. Numerous studies have been conducted and they show that there is no association, even casual. People will continue to believe there is a link until we have proof of what does cause autism.

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Old 02-16-2011, 07:29 PM
 
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thanks for sharing your story, harli.  I agree with everything you said.

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Old 02-16-2011, 09:16 PM
 
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For me, it's all the junk that is in them. Just read : http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

 

Formaldehyde

Bovine (Cow) extract

Thimersol (Yep, it's still there)

Monkey kidney tissue

Aluminum

 

Need I go on?

Insect cell protein

MSG


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Old 02-16-2011, 10:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heathergirl67 View Post

Epidemiological studies would show an association between vaccines and autism, or any neurological disorder. Numerous studies have been conducted and they show that there is no association, even casual. People will continue to believe there is a link until we have proof of what does cause autism.


Yep. I don't think we'll ever have a one thing because there isn't one thing. But we do know some things that do cause autism in particular individuals (it's interesting to to do a pubmed search for medical journal articles to see what is being discovered and is known in this area actually). In reality I think for most the environmental triggers are things we can't control in a prevention sense. Still worth knowing though as some can be addressed in some ways that can help a person feel better physically. The problem for me with the focus on vaccines is that it gets in the way of looking at how to actually help a spectrum person's body and mind function at it's best. For a few it gives a false sense of having prevented something that happens to "other" people. I suspect for the vast majority it has little to nothing to do with vaxes and that's why we can't find a link in studies.

My son is still on the spectrum but he looks much less spectrum and functions at a much higher level with....carnitine! A supplement really though it's by prescription for his condition. His autism is at least partly related to mitochondrial function. Not uncommon. Missed though if the focus is all vaccines. Oh, and I wouldn't dream of thinking every child will have a response like my son did. My son responded to carnitine because of his autism's cause. It doesn't mirror the autism others are experiencing. That's why other things may help people didn't or wouldn't help my son in the least.

Rachelle, mommy to 8 year old boys! 

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Old 02-16-2011, 11:19 PM
 
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FWIW there are vaccine info sheets (i.e. the ones in the package - what're they called again??) that give autism as a possible side effect... I realize this is just CYA on the part of the pharmaceutical companies, but still...

 

I'm in the multi-causal camp but I definitely also believe that individual bodies react differently to everything. We delay and selectively vax. I feel some vaxes are worthwhile but have no problem declining others... It sounds strange to say when this decision should really be based on scientific research, but I really feel the importance of this decision in my *gut*. I truly believe that only parents are qualified to decide whether or not their children should be vaxed and that parental intuition plays an important role.


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Old 02-17-2011, 05:03 AM
 
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I'm not up for a debate. But I do think it is curious that so much effort is being put into dispelling this belief. The parents I know either dismiss any connection, and always have. Or thought there was a connection, dug deeper, and came to the conclusion that if vaccines are involved it is not the only factor.

 

I suspect that there are some prominent people who support the CDC schedule who have identified "belief that vaccines cause autism" as the primary barrier to vaccine uptake. And are fighting hard to dispel this belief, in the hope that winning over the public to disbelieving any vaccine autism link will result in greater vaccine uptake.

 

The problem with this strategy is that it is creating a lot of noise on the topic and parents who might not have thought twice are now digging a bit deeper. And are not satisfied with pat answers  that don't answer the questions being asked. Any reasonable person will look for a variety of sources/opinions on a topic - not just one persons/organisations recommendation/opinion. And people who present the most content with the least emotive pleas are probably going to be more accepted/respected.

 

And it can come as quite a shock to a parent to discover that there is for example,  aluminum in vaccines. And even more of a shock to discover that there are no studies to date on the safety of injecting aluminum into newborns, premies, babies or toddlers - any age group. So, a parent who has been vaccinating, but has started to ask questions, can be left with legitimate concerns. That no one can address with information.

 

Put simply, I think while an initial concern about autism might start a parents questioning, I don't think concern of having an Autistic child is what is keeping the public from following the CDC schedule. Overall concern with vaccine safety and efficacy and the concern with efforts to mandate vaccination for every child according to the CDC schedule are usually at the bottom of any concern.

 

The battle for the trust of some parents is going to be a bit harder than handing out red herrings like 8% of the earths crust is aluminium, for example.

 

In short I think it is oddly enough the 'pro' vaccine camp that is keeping this debate humming.

 

 

 


Megan, mama to her little boy (Feb2008) and introducing our little girl (Dec 2010)
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ema-adama View Post

And it can come as quite a shock to a parent to discover that there is for example,  aluminum in vaccines. And even more of a shock to discover that there are no studies to date on the safety of injecting aluminum into newborns, premies, babies or toddlers - any age group. So, a parent who has been vaccinating, but has started to ask questions, can be left with legitimate concerns. That no one can address with information.

 

 


This was me. My first son was vaxed on schedule. I had a few doubts but none really strong. Then......I started looking into all the noise. Found out about aluminum and wondered what else might be there. I am not that concerned about autism, I am more concerned with autoimmune disorders. They run in my family and I want to do what I can to protect my kiddos. Not vaxing is one thing I can do. I thought about selective vaxing and delayed, but really, I think we will stick with not, at least till about 10-12 yo and see what immunities have been picked up and consider vaxing for those things that ARE deadly in adults.

 

But the aluminum question lingers on. While the CDC is focusing on one area (mercury), I've moved on to aluminum.


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Old 02-17-2011, 10:53 AM
 
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Allow me to chime in with my ol' "Fluoride is Bad" spiel. Hear me out:

 

There is aluminum in vaccines. We consume too much sodium fluoride from tap water, processed food & drinks, absorb it in bath water, etc. I believe Fluoride is an unnecessary, harmful chemical--a drug-- which should not be forced on us. Seriously, look it up!

 

Ok......so, how does the aluminum in vaccines react with the excessive amount of sodium fluoride in our bodies?  Could vaccines be reacting with toxins in our diet and environment, to cause health effects? Of course! How could they Not?!?

 

So, if you believe vaccines might contribute to autism and health issues (which I Do), you should also look into the controversial practice of fluoridating the water supply.

 

"When combined to fluoride, as occurs in vaccines as well as fluoridated drinking water, aluminum-fluoride complex causes a significant loss of brain cells in the hippocampus  of the brain, the site of recent memory generation."   

Source: http://www.rense.com/general67/vacc.htm


 
 
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

Allow me to chime in with my ol' "Fluoride is Bad" spiel. Hear me out:

 

There is aluminum in vaccines. We consume too much sodium fluoride from tap water, processed food & drinks, absorb it in bath water, etc. I believe Fluoride is an unnecessary, harmful chemical--a drug-- which should not be forced on us. Seriously, look it up!

 

Ok......so, how does the aluminum in vaccines react with the excessive amount of sodium fluoride in our bodies?  Could vaccines be reacting with toxins in our diet and environment, to cause health effects? Of course! How could they Not?!?

 

So, if you believe vaccines might contribute to autism and health issues (which I Do), you should also look into the controversial practice of fluoridating the water supply.

 

"When combined to fluoride, as occurs in vaccines as well as fluoridated drinking water, aluminum-fluoride complex causes a significant loss of brain cells in the hippocampus  of the brain, the site of recent memory generation."   

Source: http://www.rense.com/general67/vacc.htm



I had never even thought of that. Man oh man. oh man. So what to do now. My kiddos are not vaxed. I am so unsure I figured it best to not.


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Old 02-18-2011, 09:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

Allow me to chime in with my ol' "Fluoride is Bad" spiel. Hear me out:

 

There is aluminum in vaccines. We consume too much sodium fluoride from tap water, processed food & drinks, absorb it in bath water, etc. I believe Fluoride is an unnecessary, harmful chemical--a drug-- which should not be forced on us. Seriously, look it up!

 

Ok......so, how does the aluminum in vaccines react with the excessive amount of sodium fluoride in our bodies?  Could vaccines be reacting with toxins in our diet and environment, to cause health effects? Of course! How could they Not?!?

 

So, if you believe vaccines might contribute to autism and health issues (which I Do), you should also look into the controversial practice of fluoridating the water supply.

 

"When combined to fluoride, as occurs in vaccines as well as fluoridated drinking water, aluminum-fluoride complex causes a significant loss of brain cells in the hippocampus  of the brain, the site of recent memory generation."   

Source: http://www.rense.com/general67/vacc.htm



 Yup. Synergistic Toxicity. Happens with many things in our environment. Take 1 substance and by itself it may be slightly toxic, but when combined with other substances, it may be quite toxic. Boyd Haley spoke about the synergistic toxic effects of thimerosol and other vaccine ingredients 10 years ago. http://nationalautismassociation.org/library/BoydHaleyAFFIDAVITThimerosal9-03.pdf (The part about synergistic toxicity is on page 3)


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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