Don't worry about it - Just vaccinate! - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 41 Old 02-16-2011, 02:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by heathergirl67 View Post





http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/786414-overview 

 

This article claims that 15% of people die from tetanus.

 

15% is too high for me.


Absolutely.  But the whole thing is a numbers game.   How many people get tetanus?  Very, very few in North America.  How many children under 3 have febrile seizures?  A fair number  (4%).  http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/febrile_seizures/detail_febrile_seizures.html

 

In some way this conversation has gone off topic.  A poster mentionned that febrile seizure are nothing to freak out over.  While  for most people they are benign, they are not for about 5% of those whole have febrile seizures.

 

The gist of the Op is that we should not be vaccinating people who have had serious prior reactions to vaccines.  I tend to think the likelihood of a person with a history of serious vax reactions having a bad reaction to another vaccine is higher than the likelihood they will get a vaccine preventable disease and have a serious complication from it.

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#32 of 41 Old 02-16-2011, 02:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post




Absolutely.  But the whole thing is a numbers game.   How many people get tetanus?  Very, very few in North America.  How many children under 3 have febrile seizures?  A fair number  (4%).  http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/febrile_seizures/detail_febrile_seizures.html

 

In some way this conversation has gone off topic.  A poster mentionned that febrile seizure are nothing to freak out over.  While  for most people they are benign, they are not for everyone.

 

The gist of the Op is that we should not be vaccinating people who have had serious prior reactions to vaccines.  I tend to think the likelihood of said person have a bad reaction to another vaccine is higher than the likelihood they will get a vaccine preventable disease and have a serious complication from it.

 

 

 



I agree.

 

15% may sound like a huge number, but when you are talking about 43 people per year, you have more chance of dying from a lightning strike.

 

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/vaccine-efficacy-how-often-do-vaccines-work/tetanus/


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#33 of 41 Old 02-16-2011, 06:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EviesMom View Post

Just to be clear, that page in the OP says that "collapse/seizure after DTaP is not a reason to forgo TDAP," but it does NOT say "if you've had a reaction to DTaP, you should do DTaP again anyway." It doesn't say anything either way about DTaP after prior DTaP reaction.

 

Is TDAP supposed to have less antigens than DTaP, being that it appears that they're the same 3 antigens--diptheria, tetanus, and pertussis? Are they thinking age will make a difference? Different adjuvants? What is supposed to be the shift in the same antigens being okay?



Like Marnica said, it has to do with the amount of antigen. Both DTaP and Tdap contain diptheria, tetanus and pertussis antigens. The size of those letters has significance - it tells you that DTaP has a lot of all 3 antigens, whereas Tdap has a lot of tetanus but less diptheria and pertussis. Since those types of neurologic reactions are known to be associated with large amounts of pertussis antigen, it is thought that they are more likely to occur when the amount of pertussis antigen is large. The rationale in saying  "collapse/seizure after DTaP is not a reason to forgo Tdap" is based on the idea that smaller amounts of pertussis antigen in Tdap in comparison with DTaP aren't likely to result in those neurologic reactions. I think it would be beneficial for parents to see any available data supporting or refuting that rationale.

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#34 of 41 Old 02-25-2011, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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A febrile seizure absolutely can cause permanent damage.

 

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/Golkiewicz.Mersburgh.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post





And thats fine, but a febrile seizure, caused by vax or something else, doesn't cause permanent damage.  So, freaking out over vaccines causing febrile seizures, which are normal in young feverish children, is not worth it.




If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#35 of 41 Old 02-25-2011, 03:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post


A febrile seizure absolutely can cause permanent damage.

 

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/Golkiewicz.Mersburgh.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 


 


 


 

Are febrile seizures harmful?


Although they can be frightening to parents, the vast majority of febrile seizures are short and harmless. During a seizure, there is a small chance that the child may be injured by falling or may choke from food or saliva in the mouth. Using proper first aid for seizures can help avoid these hazards (see section entitled "What should be done for a child having a febrile seizure?").

There is no evidence that short febrile seizures cause brain damage. Large studies have found that children with febrile seizures have normal school achievement and perform as well on intellectual tests as their siblings who don't have seizures. Even when seizures are very long (more than 1 hour), most children recover completely, but a few might be at risk of subsequent seizures without fever (epilepsy).

In other words, between 95 and 98 percent of children who experience febrile seizures do not go on to develop epilepsy. However, although the absolute risk remains small, some groups of children--including those with cerebral palsy, delated development, or other neurological abnormalities--have an increased risk of developing epilepsy. The type of febrile seizure also matters:; children who have prolonged febrile seizures (particularly lasting more than an hour) or seizures that affect only part of the body, or that recur within 24 hours, are at a somewhat higher risk. Among children who don't have any of these risk factors, only one in 100 develops epilepsy after a febrile seizure.

 

 

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/febrile_seizures/detail_febrile_seizures.htm

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#36 of 41 Old 03-04-2011, 08:47 PM
 
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Is there a NIH or CDC reference that states emphatically that seizures are beneficial to a baby?

 

Seizures are a sign of something going wrong. They are a signal to the parents to do something and see what is wrong with their baby.   I hope that the government agencies and AAP are not telling parents to ignore seizures in the same way that paediatric practices are now telling parents to ignore constant, incessant, non-stop "purple crying".

 

http://www.purplecrying.info/sections/index.php?sct=1

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#37 of 41 Old 03-04-2011, 08:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miriam View Post

Is there a NIH or CDC reference that states emphatically that seizures are beneficial to a baby?

 

Seizures are a sign of something going wrong. They are a signal to the parents to do something and see what is wrong with their baby.   I hope that the government agencies and AAP are not telling parents to ignore seizures in the same way that paediatric practices are now telling parents to ignore constant, incessant, non-stop "purple crying".

 

http://www.purplecrying.info/sections/index.php?sct=1

 

No one is saying seizures are a GOOD thing.  We're just saying that a febrile seizure is highly unlikely to cause permanent damage.  Or any damage at all.  No one is saying that seizures of any sort should be ignored either.
 

 

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#38 of 41 Old 03-04-2011, 09:02 PM
 
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Wow it is incredible to me that they would have you continue vaccinating after something like a seizure, for example.


Alicia, wife to an loving and faithful DH, and mama to three fantastic though nutty children (cs, then an HBAC, then a VBAC!!).
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#39 of 41 Old 03-04-2011, 09:08 PM
 
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Actually, if you click around a few more times on the website, you will discover that the things mentioned in the OP are absolutely listed as precautions regarding vaccines.  What the link in the OP is saying (and not very clearly, for sure) is that those things are not AUTOMATIC contraindications.  Further, another page on the websites says this

 

Quote:
 Events or conditions listed as precautions should be reviewed carefully. Benefits of and risks for administering a specific vaccine to a person under these circumstances should be considered. If the risk from the vaccine is believed to outweigh the benefit, the vaccine should not be administered. If the benefit of vaccination is believed to outweigh the risk, the vaccine should be administered. Whether and when to administer DTaP to children with proven or suspected underlying neurologic disorders should be decided on a case-by-case basis

 Each of the things listed in the OP are listed as precautions here

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/vac-admin/contraindications-vacc.htmI

 

Edited because I apparently misundestood the removal of the 2009 guide.  Or something.

 

Anyway, a few more clicks and I find this page, which seems to be a pretty good resource in general

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr6002a1.htm?s_cid=rr6002a1_e#Tab7

 

And from this page

 

 

Quote:
 In general, vaccinations should be deferred when a precaution is present.

 

 

IOW, the OP's title is incorrect, the CDC is NOT saying "Don't worry about it.  Just vaccinate."

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#40 of 41 Old 03-05-2011, 06:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happysmileylady View Post

Actually, if you click around a few more times on the website, you will discover that the things mentioned in the OP are absolutely listed as precautions regarding vaccines.  What the link in the OP is saying (and not very clearly, for sure) is that those things are not AUTOMATIC contraindications.  Further, another page on the websites says this

 

 Each of the things listed in the OP are listed as precautions here

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/vac-admin/contraindications-vacc.htmI

 

Edited because I apparently misundestood the removal of the 2009 guide.  Or something.

 

Anyway, a few more clicks and I find this page, which seems to be a pretty good resource in general

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr6002a1.htm?s_cid=rr6002a1_e#Tab7

 

And from this page

 

 

 

 

IOW, the OP's title is incorrect, the CDC is NOT saying "Don't worry about it.  Just vaccinate."



Not entirely.  The title of the page the OP referenced is :

 

 

Conditions Commonly Misperceived as Contraindications to Vaccination

 

Maybe that is not what the article says if you click around - but you should not have to click around.  The title should be clear and indicate what is in the article.

 

I think the medical community is so desperate to for everyone to vax that they deliberately write muddy pieces to muddy contra-indications to vax.

 

 

 

 

 

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#41 of 41 Old 03-05-2011, 09:06 AM
 
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Well, all of the information is there, so interpret it how you will. 

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