Scared to death of newborn getting pertussis- anyone else? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 37 Old 03-12-2011, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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From what I've read on the net, breastfeeding helps prevent a lot of diseases in babies, except pertussis. :( My husband has a horrible cough- how likely is it that it is pertussis (btw he doesn't have insurance although our kids do so won't go get checked out)??? I live in Maryland and there are no outbreaks that I know of, but still am scared.

 

Anyone know what, if any, protection BFing has when it comes to pertussis? Like I said, I couldn't find anything online that said BF is beneficial. :(

 

Anyone else worried about this?

 

ETA: Did any of your babies get pertussis, and were they okay? Maybe some stories of babies getting it and being okay will help me feel better!


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#2 of 37 Old 03-12-2011, 01:55 PM
 
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Have you researched sodium ascorbate as a treatment for pertussis? It can be given to babies, and you might as well try it on your husband to see if it helps him.

 

I'd have to hear your husband's cough or get a good description of it to have any idea whether or not it is pertussis.

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Honestly, pertussis is about the only disease they have a vax for that really worries me.  But, the vax is one of the most reactive and one of the least effective.  So there you go.  Fortunately my youngest is 20 months, and as she gets older I worry less.


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#4 of 37 Old 03-13-2011, 08:54 AM
 
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Everything Dahlia RW says.  We do vax for pertussis.


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#5 of 37 Old 03-13-2011, 09:15 AM
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Whopping cough has a pretty distinctive sound - it kind of sounds like they are saying "whoop whoop" (hence the name)

 

You can listen to it on youtube

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuvn-vp5InE&feature=related

 

Since your baby is too young for the pertussis vax, you can protect baby by getting everyone around the baby vaxed or getting them boosters. Before my baby was born, DH, my MIL (who watches the kids a lot) and I all went and got the vax.  I figure we all probably got it when we were kids but I did not want to rely on that.  DS was already vaxed recently.  

 

If your DH does not have insurance, try calling the county or other health service.  My MIL got shots through the county for like $20.  Some drug stores also do shots, but I don't know which ones - maybe just flu.

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Originally Posted by MsFortune View Post

Since your baby is too young for the pertussis vax, you can protect baby by getting everyone around the baby vaxed or getting them boosters. Before my baby was born, DH, my MIL (who watches the kids a lot) and I all went and got the vax.  I figure we all probably got it when we were kids but I did not want to rely on that.  DS was already vaxed recently.  

 

 


Actually the vax doesn't prevent carriage or transmission.  So you can be fully vaxed, never get the identifying symptoms, simply appear to have a cold and still pass pertussis to a newborn.

 

-Angela

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Actually the vax doesn't prevent carriage or transmission.  So you can be fully vaxed, never get the identifying symptoms, simply appear to have a cold and still pass pertussis to a newborn.

 

-Angela


That does not make sense to me.  You would have to have pertussis to pass it on.  

 

If you know otherwise, can you provide a link?

Thanks

 

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I agree with pp that the best way to protect your small babe is to make sure that everyone around her is vaccinated against pertussis.  I don't know what protection breastfeeding offers.  I would contact your local health department and see if your dh can get tested for pertussis.  I would think that it would be free or close to it because it's a matter of public health.

 

There has been an outbreak in my community and I know of one family who lost their 5mo baby :( 


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Here is a link of compiled data regarding the shedding of the vaccine.  Personally, I keep my children away from people who have recently been vaccinated for it.  Also, it has mutated over time, and during the recent outbreak in CA the vaccine wasn't really effective-2 out of 3 that got sick were vaccinated.

 

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/vaccine-efficacy-how-often-do-vaccines-work/dtap/pertussis-vaccine-and-transmission/

 


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There is a difference between pertussis and whopping cough as the latter is the name given to an advanced/serious case of pertussis that has developed the distinctive cough. The big issue I have with the pertussis vaccine is that you can still get pertussis (vaccine does not prevent transmission), but are less likely to have it become serious enough to develop the distinctive cough of whopping cough. Therefore (as stated by a PP) you will probably not know if you get the disease...but you can still transmit it to those around you should this occur.

Therefore if everyone in a family were to be vaccinated because of babies in the house, those family members are just as likely to develop pertussis...but not know it and therefore not take the proper precautions around the baby. No thank you....I see nothing but problems with the pertussis vaccine. And blaming an uptick in cases on unvaccinated people is pure fearmongering in this case.

I would encourage those who believe otherwise to get out there and do some research.
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That does not make sense to me.  You would have to have pertussis to pass it on.  

 

If you know otherwise, can you provide a link?

Thanks

 


Pertussis is the name of the bacteria that results in the disease whooping cough. The whoop is a result of a toxin secreted by the bacteria that are in the mucosal lining of the respiratory tract.

 

The vaccine is designed to induce immunity to the toxin. Not the bacteria. You can carry the bacteria and spread it without knowing that your runny nose contains Pertussis bacteria. However, if the vaccine works, you will have a good chance of having a less severe cough.

 

Despite high vaccination rates, pertussis remains endemic. Unlike measles.

 

 


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#12 of 37 Old 03-13-2011, 11:12 AM
 
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The vaccine may not completely prevent transmission, but it does significantly reduce transmission. Of course, some feel its not worth the risk of the vaccine, while others feel that its better than no protection at all.



 

 

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#13 of 37 Old 03-13-2011, 11:20 AM
 
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The filamentous hemagglutinin (FHA) and pertactin in the vaccine do help reduce colonization of the bacteria.

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The vaccine is designed to induce immunity to the toxin. Not the bacteria. You can carry the bacteria and spread it without knowing that your runny nose contains Pertussis bacteria. However, if the vaccine works, you will have a good chance of having a less severe cough.

 

 

 



 

 

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The vaccine may not completely prevent transmission, but it does significantly reduce transmission. Of course, some feel its not worth the risk of the vaccine, while others feel that its better than no protection at all.


Are you referring to the mechanism whereby a vaccinated person coughs less and for a shorter duration, so they spread the virus less?


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Unlike measles.


Well, not in the US, but it is in the UK and Australia.  GO TEAM USA!

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#16 of 37 Old 03-13-2011, 12:34 PM
 
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Are you referring to the mechanism whereby a vaccinated person coughs less and for a shorter duration, so they spread the virus less?


Partly yes, although its actually bacteria, not a virus. The vaccine also reduces colonization, so even if the vaccinated person is coughing, they are transmitting less bacteria. 

 

 



 

 

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Please listen to the whooping cough sound ... We had it .. It is a very distinctive sound and your husband would feel that he can't breathe because the throat closes entirely. For me, I would have to vomit before my air passages would open again and I could breathe. It is unlike any, any other cough.

We too were afraid to pass it on to our newborn .... But by the time I gave birth I guess I was not contagious. They were, however afraid my labor would be messed up by the coughing. It wasok.

Statistically it is really unlikely your dh has it ... So pls try not to worry.

If his cough does have the woop sound ... Call the health dept and say he needs a PCR test at low or no cost ... They may agree as he is a public health risk. He should wear a mask when going out to not infect others. A baby or a frail old person could die from it.

Please pm me if any questions.

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The filamentous hemagglutinin (FHA) and pertactin in the vaccine do help reduce colonization of the bacteria.



In theory, FHA, pertactin and FIM 2 and 3 should reduce the transmission of pertussis. However, despite DTP and now DTaP vaccines, the endemic cycles in pertussis cases has not really changed.

 

It would seem that FHA is better than just PT. And FHA + Pertactin + PT is better than just FHA with PT. And that FIM 2&3 added to the FHA and Pertactin  and PT is even better. Better at offering protection to the vaccinated host. Not necessarily better at clearing the bacteria from the nasopharynx. Or preventing transmission.

 

From what I can understand Pertussis is very good at evading the immune system. And there is room for improving the vaccine. I will look for more details on vaccinated children/people clearing the bacteria from the nosapharynx, At the initial stages of infection. When you are most infectious.


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"It is unknown whether immunizing adolescents and adults against pertussis will reduce the risk of transmission to infants."

http://vaccines.com/index.cfm?FA=protect/adacel/content&S=HOME&P=HowS_pread

Advertisement for pertussis vaccine on vaccine manufacturer's website

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Partly yes, although its actually bacteria, not a virus. The vaccine also reduces colonization, so even if the vaccinated person is coughing, they are transmitting less bacteria. 

 

 

Duh. Sorry, I do know it is a bacteria. Thats what you get when NAK a baby and emotional toddler make demands while trying to postshake.gif Lesson to take a step back from the computer when I am needed IRL.

 

Transmission is most likely during the catarrhal stage, not the coughing stage.

 

I am not making these points to pick a fight about choosing this vaccines. Pertussis is scary. And some people feel much safer with the vaccine. I am pointing out that there is not good evidence that the vaccine prevents transmission and there is a lot of work being done to try and control pertussis with a vaccine. Perhaps a newer vaccine will have more success. 
 

 


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Duh. Sorry, I do know it is a bacteria. Thats what you get when NAK a baby and emotional toddler make demands while trying to postshake.gif Lesson to take a step back from the computer when I am needed IRL.

 

Transmission is most likely during the catarrhal stage, not the coughing stage.

 

I am not making these points to pick a fight about choosing this vaccines. Pertussis is scary. And some people feel much safer with the vaccine. I am pointing out that there is not good evidence that the vaccine prevents transmission and there is a lot of work being done to try and control pertussis with a vaccine. Perhaps a newer vaccine will have more success. 
 

 



Oh, there's definitely room for improvement with the vaccine; no doubt about that. Pertussis seems like a bacteria that can't be outsmarted by man. For me (and it was a long journey to come to this point), its the best we've got and is better than no protection at all. We had pertussis go through our house several years ago, and while it was fairly mild for us, its still worth avoiding... if for no other reason than it is such a long time to be sick.

 



 

 

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My ds was almost 2 when he got pertussis last August, so it was never as severe as with a newborn.  I brought him to the doctor before the whooping started, he would cough till he was purple in the face.  My doctor said it was likely croup and gave him a puffer to use when he had coughing spells.  The puffer did NOTHING for him, he just worsened.  I started to suspect WC because he would cough for so long and his face would turn blue and he`d nearly pass out and would gag after each spell, and when he started with whooping after coughing till he was purple I *just knew* what it was.  I brought him to the ER twice and both times left without seeing a doctor after waiting hours upon hours in the middle of the night in the waiting room.  NO ONE would listen to me.  I brought him back to the doctor and myself and my older children started showing symptoms.  My ds, of course, managed not to have a spell while at the doctors and my doc looked at him and said he didn`t have WC because he didn`t look sick enough and he hadn`t seen a WC case in 20 yrs!!!  But he sent us to get the nasal swab done anyhow at the Lab and when we dragged our sick family all the way over there I handed the lady our sheet and she nearly threw it back at me and lectured me for coming into the office while suspecting we had such an illness!  She very rudely demanded that we leave immediately and I told her my doctor specifically told me to go there, she told me the nasal swab was to be done in office!  The ball was dropped once again!  At this point I had been to the doctor 3 times, the pharmacy twice, the hospital twice and the lab and still had no diagnosis or treatment or any help whatsoever- I even called the City Health Dept and asked if there had been any reported cases in the county of WC and was told NO!  Well- is it any wonder!?  We were DONE with doctors!  I have video recordings of his coughing spells, it is very clearly WC, w/o a doubt in my mind.  I read about Sodium Ascorbate on mothering- it was the only thing that worked for him.  My older children and I got it as well, though more mildly, I was coughing and puking w/o warning for weeks.  It took a while, but we slowly all recovered, it`s been about 8 months since he first got sick and he is fully recovered, no lingering issues or concerns.  If we were to have another child, I would probably not vax him or her as well, though I would worry much more about pertussis, having seen how awful it is.  It was very stressful and frightening, I lost 10 pounds in one week from the stress of it, I couldn`t eat or sleep, when he was at his worst I slept fully dressed in a reclining chair with him in my arms in case we needed to go to the ER.  I cannot imagine how much worse it would be with an infant, but I have a lot of confidence in the Sodium Ascorbate (Vitamin C buffered with salt- all the other supplements, herbs, garlic poultices, Ester C did nothing for him, the only thing we saw immediate and progressing results from was the SA.)  I wish there were a safer pertussis shot, I just don`t trust it myself, I personally have fears of it being linked to SIDS.  Each mother needs to do her research and make a choice she is comfortable with.


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#23 of 37 Old 03-20-2011, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'd have to hear your husband's cough or get a good description of it to have any idea whether or not it is pertussis.


Thanks for all the replies!
 

His cough was hacking and he coughed up a lot of "gunk". It's a week later and he doesn't cough much anymore though. My two older kids got whatever he had/has, but theirs is much less severe... my 2-year-old has a really runny nose and only lets out a cough once in a blue moon. My 4-year-old didn't get a runny nose, only the cough but the cough has been very mild and he hardly coughs at all. So far baby is still ok (crossing fingers)! My nose ran a bit for the first time, today, so looks like I may be getting what everyone else has!

 

What do you think? Do you think maybe it's just a cold??

 


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My ds was almost 2 when he got pertussis last August, so it was never as severe as with a newborn.  I brought him to the doctor before the whooping started, he would cough till he was purple in the face.  My doctor said it was likely croup and gave him a puffer to use when he had coughing spells.  The puffer did NOTHING for him, he just worsened.  I started to suspect WC because he would cough for so long and his face would turn blue and he`d nearly pass out and would gag after each spell, and when he started with whooping after coughing till he was purple I *just knew* what it was.  I brought him to the ER twice and both times left without seeing a doctor after waiting hours upon hours in the middle of the night in the waiting room.  NO ONE would listen to me.  I brought him back to the doctor and myself and my older children started showing symptoms.  My ds, of course, managed not to have a spell while at the doctors and my doc looked at him and said he didn`t have WC because he didn`t look sick enough and he hadn`t seen a WC case in 20 yrs!!!  But he sent us to get the nasal swab done anyhow at the Lab and when we dragged our sick family all the way over there I handed the lady our sheet and she nearly threw it back at me and lectured me for coming into the office while suspecting we had such an illness!  She very rudely demanded that we leave immediately and I told her my doctor specifically told me to go there, she told me the nasal swab was to be done in office!  The ball was dropped once again!  At this point I had been to the doctor 3 times, the pharmacy twice, the hospital twice and the lab and still had no diagnosis or treatment or any help whatsoever- I even called the City Health Dept and asked if there had been any reported cases in the county of WC and was told NO!  Well- is it any wonder!?  We were DONE with doctors!  I have video recordings of his coughing spells, it is very clearly WC, w/o a doubt in my mind.  I read about Sodium Ascorbate on mothering- it was the only thing that worked for him.  My older children and I got it as well, though more mildly, I was coughing and puking w/o warning for weeks.  It took a while, but we slowly all recovered, it`s been about 8 months since he first got sick and he is fully recovered, no lingering issues or concerns.  If we were to have another child, I would probably not vax him or her as well, though I would worry much more about pertussis, having seen how awful it is.  It was very stressful and frightening, I lost 10 pounds in one week from the stress of it, I couldn`t eat or sleep, when he was at his worst I slept fully dressed in a reclining chair with him in my arms in case we needed to go to the ER.  I cannot imagine how much worse it would be with an infant, but I have a lot of confidence in the Sodium Ascorbate (Vitamin C buffered with salt- all the other supplements, herbs, garlic poultices, Ester C did nothing for him, the only thing we saw immediate and progressing results from was the SA.)  I wish there were a safer pertussis shot, I just don`t trust it myself, I personally have fears of it being linked to SIDS.  Each mother needs to do her research and make a choice she is comfortable with.


Thanks for sharing your story and so sorry you had to go through that, but glad everyone was okay!

 


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#25 of 37 Old 03-20-2011, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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... if for no other reason than it is such a long time to be sick.

 


How long were you guys sick?

 


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#26 of 37 Old 03-20-2011, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Whopping cough has a pretty distinctive sound - it kind of sounds like they are saying "whoop whoop" (hence the name)

 

You can listen to it on youtube

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuvn-vp5InE&feature=related

 

Since your baby is too young for the pertussis vax, you can protect baby by getting everyone around the baby vaxed or getting them boosters. Before my baby was born, DH, my MIL (who watches the kids a lot) and I all went and got the vax.  I figure we all probably got it when we were kids but I did not want to rely on that.  DS was already vaxed recently.  

 

If your DH does not have insurance, try calling the county or other health service.  My MIL got shots through the county for like $20.  Some drug stores also do shots, but I don't know which ones - maybe just flu.


Is the adult pertussis vaccine safe while breastfeeding??

 


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#27 of 37 Old 03-20-2011, 07:19 PM
 
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We had the same round around of everyone doubting we had it, too.  You just don't look sick between spells.  But then you literally CANNOT breathe and start to black out/become incontinent.  Until you barf or gag.  Oh, terrible.  We had to insist that they do a swab on us.  Boy, did they eat crow when it came back positive.

 

We wore masks when we went out in public and would typically avoid the waiting rooms of dr's offices.  


There is nothing much they can do once you have it --  inhalers don't help at all.


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#28 of 37 Old 03-21-2011, 08:00 AM
 
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How long were you guys sick?

 


We had the cough for about 3 weeks, though it was a good 2 weeks after that until we were fully-recovered.



 

 

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#29 of 37 Old 03-22-2011, 10:21 PM
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Is the adult pertussis vaccine safe while breastfeeding??

 

 

Yes.  I got mine in the hospital after giving birth.  
 

 

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#30 of 37 Old 03-23-2011, 07:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFTB1177 View Post




Is the adult pertussis vaccine safe while breastfeeding??

 


as with many things vaccine realted safety is assumed. They do not know if it is safe as they have never studied it.

 

 

Quote:
 

It is not known whether BOOSTRIX is excreted in human milk.

Because many drugs are excreted in human milk, caution should be exercised when BOOSTRIX is administered to a nursing woman.

 


 

 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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Pertussis , Transmission , Vaccinations , Breastfeeding

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