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#31 of 54 Old 04-14-2011, 04:19 PM
 
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Yes, in undeveloped countries.  The vast majority of measles cases in the U.S. are in vaccinated individuals.

 


No, in the US.  At least in the past decade or so, it may have been different back in the 1980s before they added another dose.  But in the current century at least, while there have been a few small outbreaks that consisted of vaccinated people such as one where nine vaccinated kids at a boarding school got it, the large outbreaks have mostly involved unvacinated people, and overall by far the majority of measles cases have been in those who were not vaccinated. I'm not sure about the 1990's but suspect it would have been the same. 

 

 

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Some good info about the efficacy of MMR here:

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/mmr/

 

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2008/02/02/measles-the-grim-reality/



Eh.. I have some issues with those links and how they portray things.  

 

1.  The first link seems to mix numbers around, it speaks of how effective the MMR is as a whole but then links to a supporting study that is just about the Mumps portion of the vaccine.  It quotes a bit from an abstract claiming that "a large proportion of children vaccinated under routine conditions do not have detectable measles and mumps antibody." But the abstract also says that kids vaccinated at a younger age were more likely to have undetectable measles levels, but what counts as a young age?  Are they looking at kids vaccinated before 12 months?  Comparing 12 months to 18 months or a few years?  And was this a study of kids who have had just a single dose of the vaccine, or does it take into account that kids are supposed to get another dose before starting school in order to create immunity for most of those for whom the vaccine didn't take the first time?  Who knows?  Someone who is willing to pay to read the full article, I suppose. Did the author of the webpage who quoted the abstract pay or otherwise have access to the full study to evaluate it, or did he/she just read the abstract and decided to throw the information at us without any context or discussion of methadology, etc?

 

2.  Apparently, according to the second link,  a disease isn't worth bothering to attempt to prevent unless it has parents absolutely wailing in terror?   

 

3.  The author discuses how infants and teens/adults (both ages at which measles is more dangerous than in the age range most kids used to get it) now make up a greater percentage of measles cases than they used to.  This is true since infants aren't vaccinated so much, much more likely to catch measles if exposed than older kids who would be protected by vaccination, and also as the author points out they are less likely to be protected (though still not completely unprotected) by the immunity transfer from a vaccinated mother than a mother who had measles.   On the other hand measles is rare enough that kids who are unvaxed or whose vaccine failed are unlikely to even encounter it during the short age-range that most kids used to get it at, leaving them open to getting it at some point later in their lives.  The author sums this up as a bad things saying "Translation: Mother Nature knows more about protecting infants from measles than we do.."  But what he/she seems to be overlooking is that the proportion isn't everything.   While most kids had measles during the safest period, there have always been some people who got it as infants or as teens or adults.  Since there used to be millions of cases per year, and now it is rare to have a year where there are hundreds, it stands to reason that far more babies/teens/adults used to get measles than they do now.  Also, now there are many years in which no one dies of measles compared to the past when at least several hundred if not more died each year.  Translation: infants are safer from measles in a highly vaccinated population than in one where measles is allowed to circulate freely. 

 

4. There are some concerns as to whether the measles vaccine will provide life long immunity or not. The CDC claims that current thought is that it will, but they are apparently still looking into it. The author seems to have decided that it will not and is presenting that immunity will wain enough to leave large portion of older people at risk, but does not provide any source to back that up.  Also seems to ignore that even if that did happen, that doesn't mean that there aren't other solutions such as a booster late in life, even if the author would be against one on principle, to prevent measles from running rampant among older people. 

 

 

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I didn't make a judgment there.  I don't claim to know enough to be sure of much of anything.  I just stated what most historians credit polio's eradication to.  I'm interested in hearing your theories as well.


 

Smallpox was eradicated through a combination of quarantine and targeted vaccination.  Getting the vaccine to everyone the world was not feasible.  Instead, they chased outbreaks, quarantining known cases and vaccinating everyone who may have been exposed (the vaccine could be effective at preventing smallpox even when administered a few days after exposure).  This worked with smallpox which is not quite as contagious as measles and where victims generally show signs of being ill before they are contagious.   It would not work so well with measles which is highly contagious, allowing a single contagious person to infect a large number in a short time and where a person can spread it up to four days before showing any sign of being sick. 

 

But the reason polio is no longer native to the US is due to vaccination, and measles mostly has been eradicated in the US, only it keeps being imported from places that still have it, generally by unvaxed travelers.   

 

 

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#32 of 54 Old 04-14-2011, 08:22 PM
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I further discussion is warranted on smallpox, start a thread and let me know.  Don't want to lose posts if this is considered off topic.


http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1308476/vaccine-eradication-of-disease#post_16389901

 

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#33 of 54 Old 04-25-2011, 02:31 PM
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Update on the situation in Utah:

There have now been 9 confirmed cases and one more probable case.  Cases 1-5 were unvaccinated.  (Cases 1-3 were in the same family.)  Case 6 was vaxed, and now the health department is citing "privacy laws" and not telling us if cases 7-9 were vaxed or not.  Case 6's family came forward in the comments section of a local newspaper to identify themselves and to say that a toddler in the family who had received one MMR dose both got the measles.  It's strange that privacy laws are being applied now, but they didn't apply until vaxed kids started getting sick, and I really wonder if that means 4 of the 9 were vaccinated.

 

One of the confirmed cases (no mention of vax status) attended 2 events last week where there were a total of almost 1000 people there, so health officials are trying to get vax records from or quarantine everybody at those two events.

 

It's getting closer to home for us.  One of the events was where I went to school, and we relate regularly to people who are often on that campus.  I don't have a problem with DD getting the measles.  I think she'd be fine.  I'm just concerned because we have travel planned with our pro-vax family (so pro-vax that they don't know we're skipping some because we don't want to deal with that conversation) in the next few weeks, and I don't want to deal with the fallout if we get quarantined and miss the trips just because DD ends up in the same room as somebody who might have had the measles.  I'm sick of the blame in the news and especially the comments on the news.

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#34 of 54 Old 04-26-2011, 08:22 AM
 
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I suppose unvaccinated people don't deserve privacy?

 

I agree it seems suspicious they are citing privacy laws all of a sudden


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#35 of 54 Old 04-26-2011, 08:43 AM
 
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I suppose unvaccinated people don't deserve privacy?

 

I agree it seems suspicious they are citing privacy laws all of a sudden



I agree.  


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#36 of 54 Old 04-26-2011, 09:52 AM
 
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You guys may have seen this already as it was from 2 weeks ago, but they mention the whole privacy thing in here: 

 

"School and health officials have sought to shield the family’s identity, citing state and federal privacy laws and concern for their well-being.

“We are wary of any potential push back they could receive from the community because of the circumstances,” said Ben Horsley, a spokesman at Granite School District, the only district affected by the outbreak so far. “Parents have a right under state law to make the best decisions for their child’s well-being and education. We as a district fully respect that right.”

 

I find it a bit strange that they state this now, yet the fact that the family was unvaccinated has been all over the news. They certainly made sure that info got out there, didn't they? Now that there is a case who WAS vaccinated, the rest of the cases are hush hush.shrug.gif

 

I guess we will never know. 

 

http://www.sltrib.com/csp/cms/sites/sltrib/pages/printerfriendly.csp?id=51614160 


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#37 of 54 Old 04-26-2011, 01:20 PM
 
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I was getting ready to post about the SLCC Measles, but saw this Measles in Utah Post. So I go to SLCC (Salt Lake Community College) and at the Nicholas Kristof Lecture someone had the measles (http://www.slcc.edu/pdf/Measles.pdf). Well, Friday my Aunt just randomly texted me, I am guessing my cousin who just had a baby a few months ago saw or read something about it in the news and she told my Aunt(I still haven’t been formally told by my school). My Aunt then texted me ...“Has Kyler had his measles shots?" So I told her yes, (my son was vaccinated after I told the doctor that I didn’t want him vaccinated) and I responded yes, why do you ask? She responded "Patty heard there are cases at SLCC. Do you still go there? I didn't know if Kyler had his shots because you said you don't believe in it. I was just hoping that you changed your mind (then she put a smilie face)" I responded that I hadn't heard anything about measles, and that Kyler has had his MMR. I thought if it was a big deal the Lab School my son attends at SLCC would have said something or kicked him out of school. When I looked on the school website I could not find anything about measles, but when I googled measles at SLCC I found the link for the attendance of the Nicholas Kristof lecture. Then Monday (yesterday) when I dropped Kyler of at the lab school and checked the parent’s box this paperwork was in my box… (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-mmr.pdf). I had to laugh to myself, because I had thought about this when my Aunt had told me about the measles cases on Friday. I usually get this kind of paperwork in my box randomly but so do other parents (at first I thought that it might just be me because I don’t vaccinate, but I have checked other parent folders to see and usually all the other parents get it too). Yesterday it was just Kyler and I that got the measles paperwork, I think that if he hadn’t had the MMR that they probably would have kicked him out of school, but who knows.
The reaction the public has to supposedly “deadly” diseases like, Measles, Chicken Pox, etc. Is really out there, I mean hello I had Chicken Pox and I am still breathing! My mother and most my ancestors all contracted Measles, Mumps, Chicken Pox, Rubella, and probably everything else they vaccinate for and they all survived. Where do people these days get their thinking from, I mean reading the articles from the Trib they do use a ton of scare tactics, but I mean come on common sense Measles and other childhood diseases that they now have Vaccines for used to just be a part of childhood, so how do people really believe that they are so deadly? Life is full of destructive deadly forces, the everyday Flu is still one of the most deadly killers, and there are also things like Drugs and Alcohol that kill people on a daily basis; every fifteen minutes someone is killed by drug use and that includes illicit and prescription drugs, people are killed in car accidents, and homicides and more. In this day and age if someone even gets sick with a cold, or the flu everyone freaks out! Really…? Last I checked getting sick was just part of being human, when did catching anything that makes us ill whether it be a cold, or the measles became the end of the world? The responds that are the Trib article just make me sick, and I can only shake my head at how people treat other people who choose not to vaccinate as if they were the scum of the earth!! e MMR that they probably would have kicked him out of school, but who knows.


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#38 of 54 Old 04-26-2011, 01:28 PM
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SilverMoon, that's more about the privacy of the family that brought the measles home with them.  People around here are really angry about the whole thing, accusing them of purposely exposing people when they knew it was the measles (not sure if that is true or not), and they are upset that they don't think measles threatened their life.  I'm all for not telling the media the names of the minor children who got sick.

 

This was the article (also a week old, so it doesn't have information on the latest events) that talks about how the health department isn't mentioning vax status anymore.  It just makes no sense.  Why would they reveal vax status until one vaxed kid gets it and then not talk about vax status anymore because of "privacy laws."

 

Quote:
A case confirmed late last week involved a student who had received immunizations; however, department officials would not comment on the immunization status of the latest three cases, citing federal privacy laws.

 

I am almost positive that the kid who exposed 1000 people last week was vaxed.  All the unvaxed kids were told to stay home and were on alert.  They do mention that so far, people outside of the same schools haven't gotten it, and all the unvaxed kids at all those schools were quarantined and not allowed to attend any events.  It would have been nearly impossible for an unvaxed kid from any of those schools to make it to either of those events.  I'm not blaming the vaxed kid either, just saying it's not all the fault of unvaxed kids.  Vaxed kids may get it less often, but they've got a false sense of security.  When one gets it, s/he has more potential to expose a lot more people.

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Originally Posted by JMJ View Post

SilverMoon, that's more about the privacy of the family that brought the measles home with them.  People around here are really angry about the whole thing, accusing them of purposely exposing people when they knew it was the measles (not sure if that is true or not), and they are upset that they don't think measles threatened their life.  I'm all for not telling the media the names of the minor children who got sick.

 

 

Oh, of course. I certainly support their right to privacy as well and would never want their identity to be exposed. (I hope you didn't think that's what I meant.)  They normally don't expose identity in these types of outbreaks anyway, do they?

 


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#40 of 54 Old 04-26-2011, 03:01 PM
 
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Here is an article that I often cite:

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/swcounty/article_cdd5eac3-2d89-54cd-b421-a668899709a4.html

 

Utahans should use the tactics that these journalists and journalism students did to obtain the data on vaccination status.  The public is every bit entitled to this data.

 

I’m finally coming to learn that “privacy” laws have little to do with protecting consumers and everything to do with serving the medical-industrial complex.  But I suppose that’s a whole other matter.  Another day, another thread perhaps.

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#41 of 54 Old 04-26-2011, 03:51 PM
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Turquesa, thanks for the article.  It's amazing what they were able to find.  I don't see much in the article about what techniques they used.  Do you know any more about that?

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#42 of 54 Old 04-26-2011, 03:55 PM
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oops... double post

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#43 of 54 Old 04-27-2011, 01:45 PM
 
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Well, SLCC finally contacted me through Email, a little slow on the punch if they are trying to prevent deadly diseases from spreading its way past the 10 day incubation stage if this happened on the 11th.


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#44 of 54 Old 04-28-2011, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I go to SLCC as well, and I got an email YESTERDAY warning me that I was possibly exposed on April 11th. Well, thanks for the heads up 2 weeks later! He he. The email was really frantic and poorly written, as if someone was in pure panic mode writing it.

I'm not afraid of DS getting measles and was secretly hoping he would be exposed so I wouldn't have to think about it ever again. 

I wish we could know the vax status of ALL cases. grrr.

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#45 of 54 Old 04-28-2011, 03:34 PM
 
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Turquesa, thanks for the article.  It's amazing what they were able to find.  I don't see much in the article about what techniques they used.  Do you know any more about that?


 

I've been fishing for the link and can't find it.  There are a lot of news stories about it, but I can't find the specific one that talked about how they contacted different county health departments and collected the data (I believe through Freedom of Information laws)  Health Departments vary state by state with how much data they're willing to spill.  Some are cooperative, others cite (ahem!) "privacy" concerns.


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#46 of 54 Old 04-28-2011, 07:54 PM
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Please let me know if you find out.  There is something fishy going on around here.  An unvaxed family gets the measles (3 cases).  They pass it on to 2 more unvaxed people and 1 vaxed person, and it sounds to me like the vaxed kids spread it from there to other vaxed people, but the health department stops telling us what's going on.  I don't know much about getting the information, but the public has a right to know what is going on.

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Please let me know if you find out.  There is something fishy going on around here.  An unvaxed family gets the measles (3 cases).  They pass it on to 2 more unvaxed people and 1 vaxed person, and it sounds to me like the vaxed kids spread it from there to other vaxed people, but the health department stops telling us what's going on.  I don't know much about getting the information, but the public has a right to know what is going on.


I agree, it's weird. 

 

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#48 of 54 Old 04-28-2011, 10:34 PM
 
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I doubt there is any sort of conspiracy going on.  The public for sure has a right to know how affective the vaccine is, but they do not necessarily have the right to know any individuals private medical information, nor, I believe, does the health department have a right to share that information - wouldn't it would fall under HIPPA?  With such a small number of cases, even not naming names when telling vaccination status is still basically telling everyone who knows who the latest person to come down with Meales is whether or not that individual was vaccinated.  

 

My guess would be that the first family gave permission for the information to be released and later families did not.  Or problems arose as a result of releasing the information and so the stopped doing it so as not to anger other families or when some lawyer came along and pointed out that it was a privacy violation. 

 

The CDC puts out a report every year on the number of measles cases and how man were vaccinated or unvaccinated.  From a larger report like that, it is far more difficult to determine the vaccination status of any particular individual who was known to have measles, unless it was the same for all, so not so much of a privacy violation.  Whether or not information about individual cases and vaccination is released to the media now, I do expect that the report will come out  eventually revealing that information for the entire year just as it usually does. 

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I go to SLCC as well, and I got an email YESTERDAY warning me that I was possibly exposed on April 11th. Well, thanks for the heads up 2 weeks later! He he. The email was really frantic and poorly written, as if someone was in pure panic mode writing it.

I'm not afraid of DS getting measles and was secretly hoping he would be exposed so I wouldn't have to think about it ever again. 

I wish we could know the vax status of ALL cases. grrr.



 I had posted the letter they sent out to us, but got into trouble and had to take it off.... I agree though

I was secretly hoping that my son would get it too, the lab school for SLCC (my son attends) has had several cases of Chicken Pox, and my son never gets them!! That is my luck!!


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Please let me know if you find out.  There is something fishy going on around here.  An unvaxed family gets the measles (3 cases).  They pass it on to 2 more unvaxed people and 1 vaxed person, and it sounds to me like the vaxed kids spread it from there to other vaxed people, but the health department stops telling us what's going on.  I don't know much about getting the information, but the public has a right to know what is going on.



 I read on one of the websites I was looking at that all 9 cases were unvaxed. I am not sure which one it was because I was looking at so many...


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#51 of 54 Old 04-29-2011, 08:27 PM
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 I read on one of the websites I was looking at that all 9 cases were unvaxed. I am not sure which one it was because I was looking at so many...



Let me know if you find it again.  The KSL article I posted said that case 6 was vaxed, and a commenter on the SLTribune claimed to be the father of case 6 who he said is vaxed, and the grandfather of a vaxed (1 shot, but up to date) toddler who was confirmed to have the measles.

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#52 of 54 Old 05-01-2011, 08:22 AM
 
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I found another article in the Salt Lake Trib this morning about how they want tighter laws on vaccinating children

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/51714627-82/teachers-health-utah-april.html.csp#disqus_thread

 

I hope that the uproar of this measles scare dies down, I was afraid that this may cause parents who are normally oblivous that there are people like us out there that do not believe in vaccinating our children pressure the goverment to get rid of the Philospocial exemptions.


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#53 of 54 Old 05-03-2011, 08:00 PM
 
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I would like to know more about this issue, since my kids go to school in the Granite School District and the school called me to let me know that if the outbreak reaches our school, my kids will not be allowed to go to school. I don't see what the big deal is - I had the measles and rubella when I was about 7 years old, and it wasn't any worse than the chicken pox. My only memories of it were that I itched and that I was really annoyed that my mom wouldn't let me go outside . . . I guess my kids are a danger to the vaxed kids at school? Hmmm . . .

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#54 of 54 Old 05-03-2011, 08:46 PM
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Anjis, I believe that excluding unvaxed kids in the case of an outbreak is part of the agreement that parents have to sign for vax exemptions.  Even though we don't think we need to be protected from getting measles, the schools do, and they want to protect us in spite of ourselves.

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