Vaccine eradication of disease - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 101 Old 04-25-2011, 09:50 AM
 
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I have moved the MMS/Chlorine Dioxide conversation to Health and Healing.   Here is the link for the continued discussion of that topic. http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1309975/spin-off-discussion-about-chlorine-dioxide-and-the-eradication-of-disease#post_16408326

 

Thank you

Lisa


Our children make a study of us in a way no one else ever will.  If we don't act according to our values, they will know.~Starhawk Rainbow.gif  New  User Agreement! http://www.mothering.com/community/wiki/user-agreement

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#92 of 101 Old 04-25-2011, 10:56 AM
 
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Just recently found a new pediatrician because my previous one made me feel soooo guilty about not vaxing my 6mo old.  Funny story when I spoke with the current pediatrician she highly recommended Dr. Sears book and I discovered later in our conversation that she herself had only received ONE vaccine (polio) her whole life and she said it was because of the time in which she grew up.  She also let us know that her own children were only partially vaccinated.  For instance she said that she saw absolutely no reason to get the rotavirus vax (she said to her all that is is diarrhea).  Also had many other comments about vaccines.   During the visit I mentioned to her that my biggest concern was the fact that there had not been enough research done on children with special needs receiving vaccines which is where my son fits in.  I then later told her that I will get my child vaccines when he is older (school age) and his immune system is more able to deal with the vaccines.  Then she said something quite interest that really caught my attention... "The thing about waiting til your child is older is that they may no longer need the vaccine.  One of the primary reasons we give vaccines to young babies is because they are not able to fight the illnesses with their immature immune systems, however when they get older the illnesses no longer affect children the same way.  When you hear of babies dying from vaccine "preventable" illnesses its usually very young babies (under the age of 3 mo)."  She told me that if my child was home most of the time and not in day care or school there was probably really no problem with waiting for some of the other vaccines.  On a side note I am a SAHM and I exclusively breastfeed and will probably do so til he is 9mo. and then slowly introduce foods to my child.  I also plan on bfing til my child is at least 2.  Anyway thought I'd share this eye opening information.

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#93 of 101 Old 04-25-2011, 11:28 AM
 
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oops responded to wrong thread!


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#94 of 101 Old 04-25-2011, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Now that we have that all sorted out, where I would like to go from here is to continue to analyze these three theories for how infectious diseases could cease to become a problem for society or are eradicated.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMJ View Post

Theory 1: We allow the disease to run its course to allow people to develop natural immunity.  This creates a sort of a herd immunity where immune factors passed from mother to child causes a slow decrease in severity of the disease over many generations of exposure.  Combine this method with better medical care for treating less common severe cases, and a killer disease has been turned into a mild illness.

 

Theory 2: Use vaccines to reduce the number of non-immune people without actually getting the disease.  Quarantine anyone who gets the disease or is believed to be a possible carrier of the disease.


 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calm View Post

Theory three: diet and lifestyle are everything.

 

Nutrient deficiencies create poor illness outcomes. Infection also drains vitamin and mineral stores. I explain this to clients by holding up my water bottle and saying that illness is like someone comes along and stabs the bottom of my bottle so that everything leaks out much faster and I must refill more often and at a greater rate to even have a chance to keep up with the loss.

 

If the depletion of certain nutrients are not replenished at a HIGH rate (not the RDA!), death can occur. Infection changes nutrient requirements

...the integrity of the body as the ultimate protector and healer.  

 

if all people were checked at time of death..., they'd find ... deficiencies simply because illness depletes stores... - which gives much more clarity as to why poverty is such an indicative state for minor disease resulting in death. 

 

Please feel free to comment on these theories or add your own.  I am particularly interested in what evidence we have that these theories can work, and if so then how?

 

It appears that theory one has happened for some diseases that just aren't a problem anymore, but what evidence do we have that each new disease that comes up could be taken care of in this fashion?

 

Theory 2 seems to be a favorite in the CDC, but we have been vaccinating people for decades, and only smallpox has been eradicated.  It appears to me that a combination of sanitation, vaccination, quarantine, and the specific nature of the smallpox disease (less contageous, obvious symptoms when contageous, vaccine worked somewhat well when administered after exposure, obviously serious disease, etc) that caused smallpox to be eradicated.  We have less evidence that maintaining a 95%+ vax rate will eradicate a disease or keep it out.  Other diseases have been eradicate regionally only to have them come back in, and while unvaxed people are often blamed, it's not just unvaxed people who get sick.

 

Theory 3 is quite interesting to me, probably mostly because I don't understand it fully, and I do not have much evidence for it, but it seems like a very nice idea if it is true.  What evidence do we have that illness drains nutrients (or against this idea) or that people who die of diseases have nutrient deficiencies (or that they do not)?  I have not been able to find any research on this in my limited searching.  I can certainly agree that diseases are more serious for people with nutrient deficiencies.  There is ample evidence for that.  I  am far more concerned about people with terribly nutrient-poor diets faring well in diseases than I am with my family when we do a good job at eating nutrient-rich foods, but we still get sick.  We are trying to rebuild health from mistakes made previously in life, and we have been sick less this winter than ever before, but I am not yet convinced that optimum nutrition could head off every disease or that targeted supplements could stave off death from disease.  Are there not pathogens that are more difficult to kill because they attack or hide from the body's natural immune processes?

 

Calm, I am particularly interested in what you have to say on Theory 3 since it is your assertion, but I understand that you are busy, especially now that you have another assertion to defend on another thread.  Take your time and get back to me when you do have some time.  I'm in no hurry.  This discussion isn't going to disappear any time soon (hopefully), so you can always come back later.  In the meantime, I'd love to hear what any of you other knowledgable women have to say on this topic.

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#95 of 101 Old 04-26-2011, 06:11 AM
 
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I think everyone, whether you eat well 100% of the time or not, is going to get sick. The reason I believe this is not because I don't believe healthy diet and vitamins can prevent illness, but because we are exposed to far too many things every day that weakens the immune system that we don't even realize. Toxic overload is one.  Our environment contains so many toxins, pesticides in food and water, cleaning fluids, chemicals, etc.  Toxic overload disrupts the liver from detoxification which may cause inflammation and destroy healthy tissue.  Toxins directly weaken the immune system. 

 

So many factors play in the role of the immune system like stress, etc. Even if we eat well, there are going to be times when our defenses are down due to lack of nutrients, lack of sleep, overexposure to antibiotics, stress, etc., and we will get sick and have a harder time fighting the illness.  However, I do believe that boosting the immune system with good food, vitamins, watching sugar intake, avoiding toxins as much as possible, etc, will certainly improve on the ability to fight off illness effectively.

 

In an individual with a strong, healthy immune system, I certainly do believe targeted supplementation could ward off death in an illness/disease.  While I haven't yet searched for studies to prove this, it's my belief that a strong healthy body filled with nutrients and good wholesome food is key when it comes to illness/disease.


Loving WAHM to my two little handsome DS's, '08 and '12, and loving wife to DH, '07love.gif

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#96 of 101 Old 04-29-2011, 11:14 AM
 
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Supplements can and do work. There is a entire industry devoted to Nutriceuticals. However, it is a largely unregulated industry. If you want to use Nutriceuticals I strongly recommend using those that are third party tested for ingredients and have actual peer reviewed studies for efficacy at the recommended dosages. I'm not seeing that MMR has either of those. They should make that information more easily available so that people can have the information before trying their products. Especially since drinking bleach can kill you if you don't get the dosage correct.

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#97 of 101 Old 06-28-2011, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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So, I found out today that Rinderpest has been officially declared to be eradicated.  Here's an article about it.

 

Quote:
“Later, sitting in a bar drinking smuggled Peroni beer, it came to us: It wasn’t necessary to constantly be doing mass vaccinations. We were trying to get 30 million cattle and never getting more than nine million. We needed to concentrate on these lowland areas where the virus was persistent. We could vaccinate two million and do better.”

 

That about sums up where I am with my thoughts on vaccines right now.  For both smallpox and now rinderpest, the battle has been won not through mass immunization, but through targeted immunization combined with quarantine and knowledge of the specific workings of a particular disease.  Whether or not my daughter is vaccinated against polio while living in the US means nothing to the polio eradication efforts.

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#98 of 101 Old 06-28-2011, 03:13 PM
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Cattle don't get on airplanes and visit other countries the way people do.  Also, they aren't at much risk for being exposed to cattle who went to another country and came back infected with VPDs.  

 

The typical incubation period for polio is 6-20 days, which means it could circulate widely in the human population before a widespread outbreak.  The battle against polio has really not been won in huge chunks of the world.  

 

Your decisions are yours to make, and I don't expect you to change them.  However, I don't agree with the logic you are attempting to promote in this case.  

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#99 of 101 Old 06-28-2011, 04:04 PM
 
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Vaccines are not really eradicating diseases. They are creating new diseases. Genetically modified and engineered vaccines are contributing to mutation, vaccine and antibiotic resistance, horizontal gene transfer, recombination with other viruses and bacteria, cross-species contamination, and therefore the creation of many new hybrid diseases. Vaccines can be contaminated by other virus strains. With all this genetic modification and experimentation going on, this presents new dangers with the emergence of more powerful superviruses and superbugs appearing on the scene. Being that everything is connected, what is happening not only to humanity, but also the animal kingdom, plant kingdom, insect kingdom, etc? There are some very real emerging threats resulting from genetic modification.

 

Use of genetically modified viruses and genetically engineered virus-vector vaccines: environmental effects: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16982535

 

GM Vaccines Recombine into Unpredictable Hybrid:

http://www.seedsofdeception.com/utility/showArticle/?objectID=39

 

GENETICALLY ENGINEERED & MODIFIED LIVE VIRUS VACCINES: PUBLIC HEALTH AND ANIMAL WELFARE CONCERNS

http://www.twobitdog.com/DrFox/specialreport_Article.aspx?ID=273f53f4-bcdc-474f-a189-cca1d1a81c38

 

 

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#100 of 101 Old 06-28-2011, 04:10 PM
 
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Genetic Biophysicist Dr. Mae-Wan Ho weighs in on GM and Science:

http://www.saynotogmos.org/scientists_speak.htm#_mae_wan

 

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Viruses_and_Virus_Nucleic_Acid_Contaminate_Vaccines.php

 

How measles jumped species after the vaccine was created:

http://www.trackingvaccinations.com/allfiles/mmr.htm#distemper


Knowledge is power.

But only as powerful as the mind which grasps it, reading.gif the heart which believes in it, heartbeat.gif and the hands which wield it.goodvibes.gif

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#101 of 101 Old 06-29-2011, 01:41 PM
 
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I just wanted to mention how much I've enjoyed this post so far. I thought it would have gotten out of hand a long time ago (bashing, hurt feelings, and attacks) and am so pleased to find a good debate on an important subject! Thanks for letting me read along!! =)

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Tags
Vaccinations , Polio , Centers For Disease Control And Preventi , Immunity , Measles , Chicken Pox , The Virus And The Vaccine Contaminated Vaccine Deadly Cancers And Government Neglect , Autism

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