Please help me make sense of Gardasil for myself at the age of 39. - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 31 Old 04-17-2011, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Mamas.

Geez, when I started out here in my pre-pregancy days, I could not have forseen coming back with THIS question.

I'm a single mom now, and have been for about two years, and I just met someone.  I like him.  He's highly intelligent and makes me laugh and is ethical.  Ethical enough to tell me before we ever even got close to each other that he's dealing with genital warts.

I dealt with this myself when I was 20, and after that even had some cervical dysplasia, which was taken care of and has not returned.  HPV has not been an issue in my adult life since all that happened almost 20 years ago.

 

I'm trying to make sense of these Gardasil articles.  My daughter is 5 and almost completely unvaxed.  Even though I've protected my daughter from vaccines, some of these Gardasil links rub me the wrong way; they strike me as more sensational than factual.  I feel like I'm having trouble getting to the bottom of things.

What would you do if you were me?  Break things off with him before we get to the point that we love each other and would like to have sex?  Get vaccinated?

Sigh.

Life is complicated.

Thanks.

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#2 of 31 Old 04-17-2011, 02:17 PM
 
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They will not give it to you I think 24 is the age cut off.


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#3 of 31 Old 04-17-2011, 02:17 PM
 
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There are over 100 strains of the HPV virus.  Gardasil only protects against four of them, two of which may or may not lead to cervical cancer.  Gardasil will not stop genital warts.  Get a hold of The Vaccine Book by Robert Sears, and read the chapter on the HPV vaccine.  It’s a lot more level-headed than a lot of the websites from EITHER side.  Good luck with your decision!

 

ETA: Sorry!  If couldn't tell if you were considering it for you or your daughter.  Yes, the age range (I believe) is 9-26.


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#4 of 31 Old 04-17-2011, 02:35 PM
 
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Countries are taking it off the shelves, some already have, such as Spain.  I know there is much hype about Gardasil, but some medications make it so much easier to create hype because they're so atrocious.  I'll try to lead you to less sensational things anyway...

 

CDC - Reports of Health Concerns Following HPV vaccination

 

Erin Brockovich was taking on the makers of gardasil.

Another of Erin's posts.

 

The truth about gardasil dot com

 

 

The study found that Gardasil is associated with at least twice as many Emergency Room visit reports, four times more death reports, five times more “did not recover” reports, and seven times more “disabled” reports, as compared to Menactra. 

from side effects page

 

A good area to research this particular vaccine is the stats of how often HPV turns to cancer.  Plus, it only attempts to prevent two of the many types of HPV.  

 

Ack, have to run but back later...


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#5 of 31 Old 04-17-2011, 11:45 PM
 
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You've gotten some good advice on the vaccine situation, so I won't speak on that (don't know much about this particular vax anyway!) but I wanted to comment on this really quick-

Quote:
Break things off with him before we get to the point that we love each other and would like to have sex? 

 

I don't think I'd consider this option at all. HPV is SOOO common! Chances are high that if you broke it off with this guy, you'd encounter it with another anyway! Maybe from a man who isn't even aware he  has it. Or one who won't bother to tell you! So... Yeah. I imagine it's scary to be knowingly dealing with this, but if he's a great guy, I'd give it a go. Keep up with regular medical care, paps, you know the drill.

 

Best of luck to you!


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#6 of 31 Old 04-18-2011, 12:22 AM
 
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Liz makes a good point.  I had HPV.  I don't now.  Apparently most people get it.  Killing the virus is much easier and safer than vaccination and won't leave you with residue in your nervous system or body cells for years or life.  Herbal antivirals are effective, and what I personally used.  But if I ever got anything like it again, I'd just use my most favourite treatment in the whole wide world - oxidizers, baby!  You have a selection of things to choose from that oxidise, I stick with chlorine dioxide.  Low dose hydrogen peroxide is just as cheap (but not as effective).  I have no fear of illness, because no pathogen can build resistance to oxidation like they can antibiotics and chemotherapies etc.  Malaria is treated in hours with oxidation and the parasite cannot build a resistance to it.  Fear not.  There are options... you just have to look in places other than mainstream for them.... but then, most mainstreamers die of diseases like cancer soooo, what they say doesn't carry much weight.  

 

Think outside the box and you won't end up in one before your time.


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#7 of 31 Old 04-18-2011, 04:18 AM
 
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nak

 

you're older than the cut-off, and unless you are a virgin (i see you have a dd) you're very likely to have been exposed to HPV already.  Something like 80% of people get it at some point.  

 

If it were me i'd date this man and accept that it's a small risk but not one i haven't faced before.

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#8 of 31 Old 04-18-2011, 11:27 AM
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Liz makes a good point.  I had HPV.  I don't now.  Apparently most people get it.  Killing the virus is much easier and safer than vaccination and won't leave you with residue in your nervous system or body cells for years or life.  Herbal antivirals are effective, and what I personally used.  But if I ever got anything like it again, I'd just use my most favourite treatment in the whole wide world - oxidizers, baby!  You have a selection of things to choose from that oxidise, I stick with chlorine dioxide.  Low dose hydrogen peroxide is just as cheap (but not as effective).  I have no fear of illness, because no pathogen can build resistance to oxidation like they can antibiotics and chemotherapies etc.  Malaria is treated in hours with oxidation and the parasite cannot build a resistance to it.  Fear not.  There are options... you just have to look in places other than mainstream for them.... but then, most mainstreamers die of diseases like cancer soooo, what they say doesn't carry much weight.  

 

Think outside the box and you won't end up in one before your time.


I remember the other thread where you suggested people should drink bleach water to cure AIDS and cancer etc. I looked up the guy you were talking about too, he has quite a rap sheet, I don't think dispensing medical advice to cure ANYTHING with drinking bleach is a good idea.

 

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#9 of 31 Old 04-18-2011, 01:49 PM
 
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I don't want to take the thread off topic, as I may start a chlorine dioxide thread at some point, but I will say this... until you have held a child dying from malaria in your arms and you have no choices but Jim is standing there with medicine... I reckon you'll give your child the medicine.  The thousands of children who are still alive directly because Jim was there will totally laugh you out of the room.  I know the line, I've heard them all before, but just because something is used industrially to kill pathogens on our food and water (btw, did you know you're already ingesting it??) does not make it "bad".  Learn the facts before commenting... because I'm saving lives.... how about you?


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I don't want to take the thread off topic, as I may start a chlorine dioxide thread at some point, but I will say this... until you have held a child dying from malaria in your arms and you have no choices but Jim is standing there with medicine... I reckon you'll give your child the medicine.  The thousands of children who are still alive directly because Jim was there will totally laugh you out of the room.  I know the line, I've heard them all before, but just because something is used industrially to kill pathogens on our food and water (btw, did you know you're already ingesting it??) does not make it "bad".  Learn the facts before commenting... because I'm saving lives.... how about you?


yeah I read about his other "medicine" that destroyed people's faces and the numerous legal issues he has had.... I won't hijack this thread arguing, suffice it to say though I am not drinking watered down bleach and calling it a cure for anything (amazing how no one has heard of this "cure")eyesroll.gif

 

OP...As many PP have pointed out the Gardasil vaccine has so many issues with it, I guess you could consider yourself lucky you are too old for it....Enjoy your new relationship! Congratulations on finding a wonderful man who was honest enough to be upfront with you!

 

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#11 of 31 Old 04-18-2011, 03:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bookworm View Post

Hi Mamas.

Geez, when I started out here in my pre-pregancy days, I could not have forseen coming back with THIS question.

I'm a single mom now, and have been for about two years, and I just met someone.  I like him.  He's highly intelligent and makes me laugh and is ethical.  Ethical enough to tell me before we ever even got close to each other that he's dealing with genital warts.

I dealt with this myself when I was 20, and after that even had some cervical dysplasia, which was taken care of and has not returned.  HPV has not been an issue in my adult life since all that happened almost 20 years ago.

 

I'm trying to make sense of these Gardasil articles.  My daughter is 5 and almost completely unvaxed.  Even though I've protected my daughter from vaccines, some of these Gardasil links rub me the wrong way; they strike me as more sensational than factual.  I feel like I'm having trouble getting to the bottom of things.

What would you do if you were me?  Break things off with him before we get to the point that we love each other and would like to have sex?  Get vaccinated?

Sigh.

Life is complicated.

Thanks.



I could be wrong, but I always thought that HPV was something you had or didn't have.  It's not something that is cured, but the warts can be removed.  The virus stays in your body for the rest of your life.  So, unless I understood that wrong, you have it in your system.  Your body could produce its own warts without any help from him and you'd just have them removed.  The vaccine won't do anything for you.  I'd wait for him to get the warts dealt with, consult your gyno for advice about how to avoid spreading anything and go from there.  I had cervical dysplasia in my 20's as well and even though I never had any warts, I"ve always had the assumption that I have hpv based on such an early start of pre-cancerous cells on my cervix. 


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#12 of 31 Old 04-18-2011, 03:17 PM
 
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The vaccine does not protect against the strains that cause warts.  And since you've had dysplasia, chances are you have been exposed to the strains that the vaccine does protect against.  I am not an expert on the vaccine but I have read that it is contraindicated for women with previous or current HPV infection of the dysplasia-causing strains.

 

That being said, I would have gotten this as a teen if I'd had the choice.  For me the risk would have been less than the reward.

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#13 of 31 Old 04-18-2011, 07:27 PM
 
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The HPV vaccine should not be given to someone who has already been exposed to the virus. You have been if you've had cervical dysplasia. It is an extremely common virus. Most people who've had sex have been exposed.

 

Regarding chlorine dioxide, I've taken it with good results (not for HPV). It is not "watered down" bleach. I'm pretty sure I would not have had good results if I had taken sodium hypochlorite.

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The HPV vaccine should not be given to someone who has already been exposed to the virus. You have been if you've had cervical dysplasia. It is an extremely common virus. Most people who've had sex have been exposed.

 

Regarding chlorine dioxide, I've taken it with good results (not for HPV). It is not "watered down" bleach. I'm pretty sure I would not have had good results if I had taken sodium hypochlorite.



right it is mixed with vinegar....so much better.

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#15 of 31 Old 04-18-2011, 07:40 PM
 
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right it is mixed with vinegar....so much better.

Chlorine dioxide is not sodium hypochlorite (household bleach) mixed with vinegar. I'm not interested in a debate about chlorine dioxide (it worked for me, and people can take it or leave it), but I certainly don't want someone to read your post and think it's safe to mix bleach and vinegar, because it is not.
 

 

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#16 of 31 Old 04-21-2011, 07:26 AM
 
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Hi Bookwarm,

 

I can't see when you posted on this blog, hopefully my answer doesn't come to late.

There is what I would do:

1) Vaccinate myself (which I actually did this year, after a diagnosis of mild dysplasia with a low risk HPV).

Unless you have a chronic disease of other kind I don't see this vaccine affecting your health. Think what is on stake cancer versus some mild inconvenience like rush on the infection site for 3 days (or 1 in a 10000 chances of something more severe when associated with some other chronic disease). I had no other side effects from this vaccine but some mild redness for 3-4 days and I'm happy I took it. It is a vaccine like any other vaccine.

Plus don't forget the vaccine was approved in 2006 and is continuously monitored.

So postpone being with this person for 6 months until you complete your vaccination.

2) Ask him to go to doctor and determine which HPV type he has. DNA tests on men are not DNA approved but are used for research purposes to determine the HPV types in men as well. Tell him to seriously discuss with his doctor what are the possibilities of determining the HPV type. Knowing this will give you piece of mind. You will know what are you dealing with. If he has types 6 or 11 you're lucky. You're protected by the vaccine.

3) Like I said before wait for 6 months. See how his treatment progresses. Ask him if he still has visible warts or if they reappeared after treatment.

The longer a person shows no symptoms (warts) after treatment the higher the chances the virus has gone. You will lower you're chances of getting the virus by waiting a few months.

4) Determine if this man has a good long term relationship potential, if you're compatible with him and if he's worth it. Its you're call here.

Keep in mind you always have 50% chances or more of finding a person with HPV and it is more difficult to put a diagnosis on men as there are no FDA approved tests for asymptomatic persons.

5) Remember warts don't lead to cancer. (just to see the good side of the things)

6) Remember that pregnancy activates the HPV virus in case that is still in your body. So if you consider a pregnancy in the future make sure you test negative on both DNA & Pap test. (a negative DNA test correlated with a negative Pap test = 99% you're clear).

7) Check yourself regularly.

8) Consider all the means to prevent a disease rather than treat. Its easier.

 

Hope this helps.

 

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#17 of 31 Old 04-21-2011, 07:37 AM
 
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Bookwarm,

 

One more thing. The vaccine is free for women up to 26 y/o, but that doesn't mean you can't take it at other age.

If it's not covered by the public plan you have 2 options:

1) claim it on your private insurance  or

2) pay for it.

 

If you want to further elaborate you can ask me any questions.

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#18 of 31 Old 04-21-2011, 08:50 AM
 
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Bookwarm,

 

One more thing. The vaccine is free for women up to 26 y/o, but that doesn't mean you can't take it at other age.

If it's not covered by the public plan you have 2 options:

1) claim it on your private insurance  or

2) pay for it.

 

If you want to further elaborate you can ask me any questions.


Gardasil is not approved for women over 26 years of age. In fact when the manufacturer submitted their data for approval for women 27-45 years of age, they were denied this indication. So are you suggesting docs use it off label anyway despite the fact that there is no evidence to suggest it efficacious in this age range?

 

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM251763.pdf
 

 

 


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Chlorine dioxide is not sodium hypochlorite (household bleach) mixed with vinegar. I'm not interested in a debate about chlorine dioxide (it worked for me, and people can take it or leave it), but I certainly don't want someone to read your post and think it's safe to mix bleach and vinegar, because it is not.
 

 


I certainly don't want  for someone to think that there is a panacea floating around too but hey we all have our sticking points...Mine is people touting a "miracle" that cures everything.

 

Marnica, I didn't know they specifically denied the 27-45 age group...how interesting and scary that an arbitrary difference in age suddenly makes it somehow "safe" for the younger women...So glad I never go it. 

 

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#20 of 31 Old 04-21-2011, 02:03 PM
 
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I certainly don't want  for someone to think that there is a panacea floating around too but hey we all have our sticking points...Mine is people touting a "miracle" that cures everything.

 

Marnica, I didn't know they specifically denied the 27-45 age group...how interesting and scary that an arbitrary difference in age suddenly makes it somehow "safe" for the younger women...So glad I never go it. 

 


Surely it's not that it's "safe", it's that the risks of adverse vaccine reaction were outweighed by the benefits of the vaccine for younger women who were less likely to have already been exposed to the strains of HPV which Gardisil aims to protect against.  If one has already been exposed to those strains of HPV there are no benefits to the vaccine, making it purely a risk.

 

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Surely it's not that it's "safe", it's that the risks of adverse vaccine reaction were outweighed by the benefits of the vaccine for younger women who were less likely to have already been exposed to the strains of HPV which Gardisil aims to protect against.  If one has already been exposed to those strains of HPV there are no benefits to the vaccine, making it purely a risk.

 

fair point!
 

 

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#22 of 31 Old 04-21-2011, 02:19 PM
 
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Cancer linked HPV is not the same as genital warts HPV.   


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#23 of 31 Old 04-21-2011, 02:41 PM
 
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Arguably the presence of a strain which causes warts is indication of the presence of silent strains too.  When i was younger i "found out" a partner had once had warts.  Knowing it was a "forever" type virus and that my mother had cervical cancer (which killed her BUT it was one of the rare forms which ISN'T caused by HPV) i went to a GUM clinic in a terrible state.  There the gynaecologist gave me a cup of tea and told me that HPV is so incredibly common they assume every sexually active person, whether they used condoms or not, to have been exposed to one or other of the strains.  

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#24 of 31 Old 04-22-2011, 02:11 AM
 
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Just to clarify from some of the posts, there are more than 150 identified strains of HPV. Many - perhaps 30? - strains can cause genital warts. More than a dozen can lead to cancer.

Gardasil offers some protection against  two that cause 90 percent of genital warts and two others that cause cancer.  (Strains 6, 11 cause most genital warts, 16 and 18 cause 70 percent of cervical cancer).

Cervarix protects against five strains that cause cancer, but not against any genital wart strains (cancer strains 16, 18. 31. 33. 45).

The reason that the FDA did not approve Gardasil in older women is NOT because it was shown to be unsafe in older women, but because the maker could not prove that it was effective in preventing "cervical disease" -- that is, the lesions that can lead to cancer - in older women. (Interestingly, I think some research shows that older women are better at clearing HPV infections than younger women, but don't quote me on that) I believe Merck, the manufacturer, submitted a different set of evidence to the FDA in 2009 or 2010 about whether Gardasil could prevent genital warts in older women, but I don't know what that showed. I imagine that Merck thought it demonstrated effectiveness, but if that were the case, you'd think they would have gotten an approval for use on that basis.

In any case, you'd have to talk to your doctor about whether s/he would give you Gardisil at your age. You probably realize that it takes three injections over six months, and it costs several hundred dollars. 

Although genital warts are harmless, they are ugly and contagious, and I'm sure you'd like to make every effort to avoid catching them, even from a loving and stable partner. A very long period of abstinence (18 months, I'd say), followed by STD testing, is probably good advice for any modern couple that wants a safe way to be together.

 

 

 

 

 

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#25 of 31 Old 04-22-2011, 02:27 AM
 
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And I should elaborate... from what I've read, it takes months for an average healthy man to clear an HPV infection. According to research reported in this U.S. News article, it's an average of 7.5 months, but it could be as long as 24 months.

http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2011/03/01/half-of-adult-males-carry-hpv

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#26 of 31 Old 04-27-2011, 03:56 AM
 
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Well, isn't this interesting. HealthCanada has just approved Gardasil for women up to 45. Maybe there's more than one way to look at the data?

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/04/26/health-canada-approves-hpv-vaccine-for-women-up-to-age-45

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#27 of 31 Old 04-27-2011, 11:30 AM
 
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interesting article since we are discussing the risks vs benefits of gardasil

 

http://sanevax.org/news-blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Gardasil-vaccination-risks-vs-benefits-FINAL11.pdf

 

 

Quote:

 

Clinical trials on Gardasil have been largely inadequate, the efficacy of the vaccine in preventing cervical cancer has not been demonstrated, the benefits of vaccination have been exaggerated and safety concerns downplayed, thus preventing parents from making informed decisions for their children. Routine immunization against cervical cancer with Gardasil is not supported by the current data. The benefit of vaccination is uncertain and the risks of serious adverse effects are substantial.

 


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#28 of 31 Old 04-27-2011, 08:50 PM
 
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Some elaboration on the Canadian view: http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/Debate+renewed+over+Gardasil+vaccine/4680027/story.html

Here's what Merck is claiming for older women: "In a study commissioned by Merck in women 24 to 45 years old, Gardasil was reported to be almost 89 per cent effective against HPV infections that can lead to cervical cancer."

Although if that's true, why did the FDA go the other way? I haven't seen anything that says.

 

 

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#29 of 31 Old 04-28-2011, 06:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cattmom View Post

Some elaboration on the Canadian view: http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/Debate+renewed+over+Gardasil+vaccine/4680027/story.html

Here's what Merck is claiming for older women: "In a study commissioned by Merck in women 24 to 45 years old, Gardasil was reported to be almost 89 per cent effective against HPV infections that can lead to cervical cancer."

Although if that's true, why did the FDA go the other way? I haven't seen anything that says.

 

 


Who knows, but perhaps this should be a concern, especially for women in this age group who very well may have already been infected with these strains in their lifetime.

 

 

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In fact, according to Merck‟s VRBPAC Background Document on Gardasil HPV Quadrivalent Vaccine, the manufacturer expressed "concern" regarding the administration of Gardasil to girls who are already affected with HPV strains 16 and 18. Merck indicated that if the cervical cancer vaccine was administered to such girls, it would increase their risk of developing cervical cancer by 44.6 % (page 13, VRBPAC 8). Despite this warning by Merck, no screening is being done to rule out the presence of strain 16 or 18 of the HPV in girls before vaccination.

 


 

 


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#30 of 31 Old 04-28-2011, 11:45 AM
 
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US seems to follow the same trend, still a bit slow and less convinced.

April 5th, 2011 they approved ""to include information on women 27 through 45 years of age in the Package Insert."" Follow the FDA link bellow.

 

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm251025.htm 

 

This doesn't mean much yet, but at least they agree on informing the public about the results of clinical trials and the benefits of the vaccine in the age group 27-45 as well as the risks.

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