CA bill (AB 499) would allow 12 year olds to consent to certain vaccines without parental knowledge - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 93 Old 06-10-2011, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)

There is a bill in California (AB 499) that has already passed the CA Assembly, and is scheduled for a vote in the CA Senate June 14 (this Tuesday). It would allow children as young as 12 to consent to vaccines for sexually transmitted diseases, mainly HPV (Gardasil or Cervarix) but also hepatitis B, without their parents' knowledge or consent.

 

It would add to an existing law that already allows children starting at age 12 to consent to testing and treatment for STD's. The bill would add prevention, including vaccines to the law.

 

What are your thoughts on this? The purpose of the existing law was to make it possible to treat STD's in kids too afraid to tell their parents. I think vaccines for prevention is a lot different than treating an existing disease. I think there is no need for this law, and that it is dangerous and probably and unconstitutional infringement on parents' rights.

 

If you want to do anything about it, I'll link to my post in Activism.

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1316697/california-bill-ab-499-would-allow-12-year-olds-to-consent-to-certain-vaccines-without-parental-knowledge

member234098 likes this.
ma2two is offline  
#2 of 93 Old 06-10-2011, 11:33 AM
 
SilverMoon010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Well, I'm not even in CA and I'm outraged as a parent. Does this mean they are bypassing parents' personal belief exemptions?

 

This is complete and utter BS and most certainly unconstitutional.  No way in hell would I let them do anything to my child without my knowledge or consent.  I hope the parents in CA stand up to this big time and shut the bas***rds down.  What do 12-year-olds know anything about vaccines, the safety of them, and the side effects? They are not old enough to weigh risks vs. benefits for crying out loud! Plus, I'm sure these vaccines would be pushed on these kids in such a way where it makes the kids feel comfortable to get them, enabling them to consent every time.   I could just see ads all around the school promoting these vaccines making them seem as if they are so wonderful, just like they do with ads on TV, or handing out pamphlets to the kids.  Sick.

member234098 likes this.

Loving WAHM to my two little handsome DS's, '08 and '12, and loving wife to DH, '07love.gif

SilverMoon010 is offline  
#3 of 93 Old 06-10-2011, 01:13 PM
 
Marnica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,585
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

hmmmm ------- I mean some 12 years old I know think that they should be allowed to drink/ They have thought about it carefully and have decided that because they don;t drive, they would not pose a danger to others. A carefully thought out rational choice don't you think? I'm all for lowering the legal drinking age to 12. In fact I think 12 years old should be able to decide if they wish to attend school as well. I mean if 12 is the age that "they" have decided that kids can make sound rational choices having fully weighed the pros and cons of their actions - then why not just make that the age where kids can be emancipated from their parents should they so choose.

 

Seriously though - this is ridiculous. I know a 12 year old girl who recently had a meltdown (I mean serious meltdown) when she was told she could not attend a Justin Beiber concert unchaperoned. The hysterics that ensued were acadamy award worthy - and she is mature enough to make a choice that has the possibility of serious injury or death? or even has the maturity enough to express concerns and ask he right questions to establish the pros and cons - follow up on what they are being told by their doctor - weigh the evidence and make a truly informed choice? Gimmme a break. I still had a cabbage patch kid when I was 12.

member234098 and Bokonon like this.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

Marnica is offline  
#4 of 93 Old 06-10-2011, 01:36 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 View Post

Does this mean they are bypassing parents' personal belief exemptions?

 

 

This is EXACTLY the intent, I believe.  They can get around parents' philosophical exemptions with, "Don't listen to your Mom and Dad.  These vaxes are completely safe." 

 

Unfortunately, it looks like this issue is split between some dangerously black and white lines.  On one side, the religious conservatives (Catholic lobby, Right to Life) are opposed, and on the other, the Planned Parenthood/NARAL crowd favors it.  This is all according to the article posted in the Activism forum. 

 

But that shouldn't even be the FRAMING.  It makes no difference if you're religious or atheist/agnostic, pro-life or pro-choice.  The whole adolescent sex issue is a red herring.  The question we should be asking is whether or not 12-year-olds should legally be able to consent to pharmacological or similar medical interventions, such as the HPV vaccine.  As Silvermoon suggested, this law will provide a way for public health officials to bypass parental objections and coerce children into more of their vaxes. 

 

Furthermore, this legislation also sets up a slippery slope.  If children can consent to the HPV vaccine, why not DTaP boosters and the whole rest of the CDC schedule?  Nurses could go into schools, tell kids scary things about the diseases, and vaccinate them without any parental consent.  Just some thoughts... 
 

 

member234098 and Bokonon like this.

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#5 of 93 Old 06-10-2011, 02:10 PM
 
SilverMoon010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Say this law passes and the child who consented to the vaccine suffers an extremely terrible complication from it or even death (as we have seen far too many times with Gardasil) and the parent had no idea the child had been vaccinated, what happens then? The parent had been completely left in the dark and is left to pick up the pieces from the damage done?  Seriously, what is wrong with these lawmakers today? They have serious issues.

 

Also, how do they plan on informing the parents of the receipt of the vaccination afterwards, or do they never plan on informing the parents at all? 

 

I find it so disturbing how the focus is always on the weak-minded when it comes to vaccines....New parents (more easy to place fear in when they first have a baby), pregnant women (who want to make sure they don't "catch" anything when they are pregnant for fear of harm to the fetus), and now 12-year-olds who know nothing about vaccines and who are too busy worrying about what color they are going to paint their fingernails.

member234098 likes this.

Loving WAHM to my two little handsome DS's, '08 and '12, and loving wife to DH, '07love.gif

SilverMoon010 is offline  
#6 of 93 Old 06-11-2011, 08:45 AM
 
Bokonon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 View Post

Say this law passes and the child who consented to the vaccine suffers an extremely terrible complication from it or even death (as we have seen far too many times with Gardasil) and the parent had no idea the child had been vaccinated, what happens then? The parent had been completely left in the dark and is left to pick up the pieces from the damage done?  Seriously, what is wrong with these lawmakers today? They have serious issues.

 

Also, how do they plan on informing the parents of the receipt of the vaccination afterwards, or do they never plan on informing the parents at all? 

 

I find it so disturbing how the focus is always on the weak-minded when it comes to vaccines....New parents (more easy to place fear in when they first have a baby), pregnant women (who want to make sure they don't "catch" anything when they are pregnant for fear of harm to the fetus), and now 12-year-olds who know nothing about vaccines and who are too busy worrying about what color they are going to paint their fingernails.



I completely agree.

 

Do we really want to give 12 year olds the message that they are grown up, independent, and can keep important information from their parents?

 

A friend of mine is a pharmaceutical rep. and posted on her Facebook the other day that she caught a 13 year old girl at a doctor's office as she fainted after her Gardasil shot. It boggles my mind that this vaccine is still not only on the market, but recommended to all children in that age group.

member234098 likes this.

A, jammin.gif mama to a boy (2005) and a girl (2009)
Bokonon is offline  
#7 of 93 Old 06-11-2011, 08:50 AM
 
member234098's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Behind you.
Posts: 3,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

member234098 is offline  
#8 of 93 Old 06-15-2011, 07:55 AM
 
lovebeingamomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: RI
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Let's hope the communication between parent and child is strong enough that the child will respect the parents opinion when they tell their child never to consent to a vaccine.  But seriously...what kid is going to consent to a shot when they don't have to?  It's a shot, kids HATE shots!  Wouldn't the child have to ASK for it?  It's not like they're opening a free vaccine clinic in the school and the class all goes in and they just ask them to sign...it's like handing out condoms at school, they don't actually hand them out, the child has to ASK for them.  Am I wrong?

member234098 likes this.

Christian SAHM & birth doula.
lovebeingamomma is offline  
#9 of 93 Old 06-15-2011, 08:08 AM
 
SilverMoon010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by lovebeingamomma View Post

Let's hope the communication between parent and child is strong enough that the child will respect the parents opinion when they tell their child never to consent to a vaccine.  But seriously...what kid is going to consent to a shot when they don't have to?  It's a shot, kids HATE shots!  Wouldn't the child have to ASK for it?  It's not like they're opening a free vaccine clinic in the school and the class all goes in and they just ask them to sign...it's like handing out condoms at school, they don't actually hand them out, the child has to ASK for them.  Am I wrong?

 

Very true, kids hate shots, but this opens the door for kids to be persuaded into getting them. An example is the pizza party (in Detroit I believe) for the class of kids with an 80-percent vaccine rate or more for H1N1.  Who the heck knows! Or even if their friends talk about it and say they have received the vaccine, they may feel it's okay. Kids are easily influenced at that age, too easily influenced.

 

Either way, even TRYING to pass a law like this is taking even more control away from parents when it comes to their own children.  That's the point. It doesn't matter if the child is going to ask for it or not. It's the principle of not having control over the medical decisions of your own child and not even being informed of them. Who is held accountable/responsible if the child has a severe reaction to the vaccine, such as a complication that is life-altering? The 12-year-old? Absolutely not. I see lawsuits written all over this bill, particularly with Gardasil.

member234098 and Bokonon like this.

Loving WAHM to my two little handsome DS's, '08 and '12, and loving wife to DH, '07love.gif

SilverMoon010 is offline  
#10 of 93 Old 06-15-2011, 10:56 AM
 
lovebeingamomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: RI
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I totally agree that this shouldn't be passed, just saying if it is, we still have power as parents to be smart parents, and make sure our children understand the importance of issues like these and that we are protecting their health.  I know kids are easily influenced, but I think at age 12 kids are pretty smart and it wouldn't be difficult to explain health topics like these.  Although I could see a teen who wants to be rebellious say HA I got the vaccine IN YOUR FACE, lol...but I know not really funny...so again I agree this shouldn't be passed. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 View Post

 


 

Very true, kids hate shots, but this opens the door for kids to be persuaded into getting them. An example is the pizza party (in Detroit I believe) for the class of kids with an 80-percent vaccine rate or more for H1N1.  Who the heck knows! Or even if their friends talk about it and say they have received the vaccine, they may feel it's okay. Kids are easily influenced at that age, too easily influenced.

 

Either way, even TRYING to pass a law like this is taking even more control away from parents when it comes to their own children.  That's the point. It doesn't matter if the child is going to ask for it or not. It's the principle of not having control over the medical decisions of your own child and not even being informed of them. Who is held accountable/responsible if the child has a severe reaction to the vaccine, such as a complication that is life-altering? The 12-year-old? Absolutely not. I see lawsuits written all over this bill, particularly with Gardasil.



 


Christian SAHM & birth doula.
lovebeingamomma is offline  
#11 of 93 Old 06-15-2011, 11:02 AM
 
alittlesandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 598
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Hmmm... my first reaction was that this was a terrible law and shouldn't be passed. But then I realized that I believe teenagers should be allowed access to birth control and/or an abortion against their parents' wishes. Is this the same thing? Why or why not? (I don't know the answers to these questions; I'm just adding them to the discussion.)

member234098 and mamakah like this.

Sandy (41), Mama to Oscar (Feb 2009) and Aria (April 2012), infertility and miscarriage survivor brokenheart.gif 11/25/10 and brokenheart.gif 6/22/11.

alittlesandy is offline  
#12 of 93 Old 06-15-2011, 11:24 AM
 
pers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I'm a bit torn on this one.  On one hand, I support teens being able to access birth control and such without parental notification.  But on the other, while I do think the vaccine can be important to preventing cervical cancer, I'm not sure the risk of cancer is enough/the value of the vaccine in preventing it is enough to disregard the right of the parent to have a say in medical choices for their teen.  Maybe someday in the future when we know more about if some of the things the vaccine has been accused of causing are real risks and have better long term data as to how much it really does reduce cervical cancer rates, but for now.. I couldn't support a law like this.  

 

But this vaccine is indeed different from others in that a teen may have more knowledge of their risk factors than their parents do.  A parent can be expected to have at least as much knowledge, if not more, as their child/teen as to how likely it is that their child will encounter measles etc. But a fourteen year old may be aware that she is at risk for HPV already while her parents intend to have her vaccinated eventually but want to put it off until there is an actual need because they don't expect her to be sexually active for a few more years. 

 

Balancing the rights of the parent and the rights of a child tends to be quite a difficult thing once teenage sexuality enters the picture. 

 

 

erigeron likes this.
pers is offline  
#13 of 93 Old 06-15-2011, 03:48 PM
 
lovebeingamomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: RI
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

This is interesting because my parents had the right to vaccinate me, and did.  Now, if I had been educated on the subject when I was younger, I would have been pissed if they had forced me to get vaccinations that I considered potentially dangerous.  So shouldn't children have the right NOT to be vaccinated too?

member234098 likes this.

Christian SAHM & birth doula.
lovebeingamomma is offline  
#14 of 93 Old 06-16-2011, 02:41 PM
 
Arduinna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 32,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Gee how did I know it would be a vax related to sex that they want kids to be able to consent to. :rolleyes

member234098 likes this.
Arduinna is offline  
#15 of 93 Old 06-19-2011, 07:40 AM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by pers View Post

I'm a bit torn on this one.  On one hand, I support teens being able to access birth control and such without parental notification. 

 

 


By "birth control," would that include hormonal contraception?  By "and such," do you mean abortion?

 

I'm OK with kids getting condoms without parental consent, but the Pill is a medication with side effects, and abortion is surgery which, like 100% of all surgeries, has risks.  Parents need to know about such medical interventions because as legal adults, they are in a much better position to hold doctors and pharmaceutical companies accountable should something go wrong.  So I'm pretty across-the-board consistent when I oppose California giving the HPV vaccine to minors without parental consent.  There may be a link to S-E-X, which in our culture tends to get everybody on every side all up in arms, but we're still talking about medical interventions. 

 

ETA: I heard a rumor that this bill passed.  Any word.......?

 

member234098 likes this.

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#16 of 93 Old 06-19-2011, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
I heard a rumor that this bill passed.  Any word.......?

 


No. The third reading in the Senate is scheduled for Monday, June 20.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=ab_499&sess=CUR&house=B&author=atkins

 

member234098 likes this.
ma2two is offline  
#17 of 93 Old 06-20-2011, 11:09 AM
 
pers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post

By "birth control," would that include hormonal contraception?  By "and such," do you mean abortion?

 

I'm OK with kids getting condoms without parental consent, but the Pill is a medication with side effects, and abortion is surgery which, like 100% of all surgeries, has risks.  Parents need to know about such medical interventions because as legal adults, they are in a much better position to hold doctors and pharmaceutical companies accountable should something go wrong.  So I'm pretty across-the-board consistent when I oppose California giving the HPV vaccine to minors without parental consent.  There may be a link to S-E-X, which in our culture tends to get everybody on every side all up in arms, but we're still talking about medical interventions. 

 

ETA: I heard a rumor that this bill passed.  Any word.......?

 


Yes, hormonal contraception.  And I don't want to get into an abortion discussion on this forum, but "other stuff" would indeed include that, along with STD testing and treatment.  

 

Getting pregnant also can have serious side effects, even when the pregnancy is not carried to term but especially when it is.  While sexually active teenagers should certainly be using condoms, being on the pill too can make it even less likely that pregnancy will occur.  While it is certainly better to have a parents input, they can't make informed choices when they don't have all the information (that is, knowledge of exactly how sexually active their teen is), and there is no way to ensure they have that without violating the teens privacy and possibly putting some teens in danger of abuse or becoming homeless after being kicked out.  

 

pers is offline  
#18 of 93 Old 06-22-2011, 09:17 AM
 
mar123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 582
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I think it is inconsistent to be opposed to teens consenting for vaccines but okay for them to consent to chemical birth control. Both have side effects; both can be damaging if you don't know your medical history (blood clots run in my family, so my girls should never take the pill.) The pill and the vaccine have failure rates, none are perfect. Both go intot he body and can have lost lasting side effects. I think this is completely comparing apples and apples.

 

I teach high school students and have no problem with students being given condoms without their parents knowing. Teens have sex- not all but many do. ANd they are very open about that fact at school. But they are also persuaded easily- and while they don't like shots, I can see ads promoting the vaccine worded in such a way that it sounds like it is mandatory, or what the cool ones are doing

Turquesa likes this.
mar123 is offline  
#19 of 93 Old 06-22-2011, 02:57 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by pers View Post

Getting pregnant also can have serious side effects, even when the pregnancy is not carried to term but especially when it is. 


 

True, but unlike pills, vaccines, or surgery, pregnancy is not a medical intervention performed on somebody.   

 

Teens and children need SOME kind of adult advocate (maybe not a parent!) looking out for THEM and not the interests of doctors and pharmaceutical companies.  The latter aren't inherently "evil" (as I and other like-minded moms often get accused of thinking), and the existence of a conflict of interest doesn't necessarily mean that a stakeholder is going to exploit it.  But it's there nonetheless, and no minor should be vulnerable to it.     


In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#20 of 93 Old 07-07-2011, 11:00 AM
 
member234098's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Behind you.
Posts: 3,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

.

member234098 is offline  
#21 of 93 Old 07-07-2011, 11:21 AM
 
LiLStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 3,360
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)

One thing I've thought of that I think would be an excellent compromise is if parents could "pre consent" (or "pre-refuse") their child receiving birth control, vaccines, std treatment, even abortions.. without their knowledge. Just a form on file with the child's doctor (and possibly also school?) stating that hey, if my child wants birth control (etc) and is uncomfortable discussing it with me, I consent to their receiving it without my knowledge. Respects the parents' right to make medical decisions for their children, and also allows teens a way to get access to things like birth control if they aren't comfortable going to their parents about it. 


dd (7) ds (5), ds (2) &3rdtri.gif hbac.gif and the furbabies cat.gifZeus, Dobby, Luna, & Ravenclaw
LiLStar is online now  
#22 of 93 Old 07-07-2011, 04:23 PM
 
Lovemy3girls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: the rabbit hole
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Has anyone seen this article about stealth vaccine laws?

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/032691_vaccine_laws_consent.html

 

It really chaps my hide that this bill would sneak the HPV vaccine into the package (another genetically engineered virus - yay!) when girls as young as 12 are clueless about the ingredients or possible dangerous side effects and are really in no position to make a mature and informed decision on it.  This bill will provide more opportunities to scare or manipulate a vulnerable population into getting the vaccine. But then how many girls are actually going to want to follow through with the 3 shot series anyway? That's expecting a lot of dedication and commitment for that age group...would it really be that successful? Let's hope not.

 

http://www.onemoregirlfilm.com/

Turquesa likes this.

Knowledge is power.

But only as powerful as the mind which grasps it, reading.gif the heart which believes in it, heartbeat.gif and the hands which wield it.goodvibes.gif

Lovemy3girls is offline  
#23 of 93 Old 09-03-2011, 06:55 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I'm for it, but I'm also for teens being able to get the Pill without their parents having to get involved. Like any pharmacologic therapy, both have their risks and their benefits, and like any intervention related to sexual health, there may be generational disconnect and the potential for abuse getting in the way of the teen's ability to seek care. It's a nice thought that teens who perceive themselves as being at risk could sit down and have a heart-to-heart with their parents, but that's not going to happen with everybody. I would assume this legislation is targeted less at those who deliberately decided not to vaccinate for ideological reasons and more at those who a. don't vax because they can't be bothered to take their kids to the doc or who b. wouldn't approve the Gardasil vax specifically because they think their kid should be abstaining.

One_Girl and _ktg_ like this.
erigeron is online now  
#24 of 93 Old 09-04-2011, 02:38 PM
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I'm 100% wih Turquesa on this issue. What I take away from this is to be absolutely open with my children and starting at a young age will ingrain in them to NEVER LET ANYONE VACCINATE YOU WITHOUT MAMA OR DADDY. EVER. Whatever they promise, we'll buy two of those for not vaccinating. I do realize that kids have s-e-x, but frankly I'm rather a grandma at 40 than having my kid taking hormonal birth control. Any medication and surgery can have severe side effects, and I sincerely hope to be able to openly discuss all of this with my children. The law has nothing to do with giving 12 year old rights, it has all to do with circumventing parental rights.

nia82 is offline  
#25 of 93 Old 09-04-2011, 06:28 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nia82 View Post
frankly I'm rather a grandma at 40 than having my kid taking hormonal birth control.

Okay, but look at it from the other side. Maybe your daughter would rather take hormonal birth control than be a mom at 16, and it's her body and her life that is most affected. Maybe she'd rather take the risk of the vaccine than the risk of HPV. Then again, maybe not. But this decision isn't just about the parent and their desires for their kid's life, it's also about the child and their desires for their own life.

 

And fundamentally, it's not really about people who have good relationships with their kids, either. Do you want to deny autonomy to the kids in difficult situations in the name of your own parental rights?

kathrineg likes this.
erigeron is online now  
#26 of 93 Old 09-04-2011, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by erigeron View Post

Quote:


Maybe your daughter would rather take hormonal birth control than be a mom at 16, and it's her body and her life that is most affected. Maybe she'd rather take the risk of the vaccine than the risk of HPV.

 

And fundamentally, it's not really about people who have good relationships with their kids, either. Do you want to deny autonomy to the kids in difficult situations in the name of your own parental rights?


Let's not forget that the bill targets kids as young as 12.

 

The top executives at Merck are not idiots. There's not enough money in limiting it to kids in difficult situations. No, the vaccine will actually be pushed on kids, with bribes, incentives, contests, etc. It's already happened, except in this case, parental permission was required. http://www.NaturalNews.com/032330_vaccines_iPod.html

 

nia82 is smart. "Whatever they promise, we'll buy two of those for not vaccinating." This is what it has come to.

 

ma2two is offline  
#27 of 93 Old 09-04-2011, 07:10 PM
 
prothyraia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Borean Tundra
Posts: 2,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I'm for it.

 

If they're physically old enough to procreate, they're old enough to have control over medical decisions directly related to that.   Including those decisions related to prevention, like birth control, STD prevention, and these vaccinations. 

prothyraia is offline  
#28 of 93 Old 09-04-2011, 08:43 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ma2two View Post

Quote:


Let's not forget that the bill targets kids as young as 12.

 

The top executives at Merck are not idiots. There's not enough money in limiting it to kids in difficult situations. No, the vaccine will actually be pushed on kids, with bribes, incentives, contests, etc. It's already happened, except in this case, parental permission was required. http://www.NaturalNews.com/032330_vaccines_iPod.html

 

nia82 is smart. "Whatever they promise, we'll buy two of those for not vaccinating." This is what it has come to.

 

Well, what primarily bothered me about nia82's response was that she put more emphasis on what her preferences were for herself as a parent than on what her child's preferences might be for her own life. Just because she would take being a grandmother at 40 over her daughter taking contraceptives doesn't mean that her daughter would view the situation the same way. I'm not going to defend the idea of "targeting" children to get them to get vaccinated, but I don't want the option to make sexual health decisions without parental influence taken away from those teens who do need that option. Parents furious about losing their own "rights" over their teenage children are forgetting that angle.

erigeron is online now  
#29 of 93 Old 09-04-2011, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by prothyraia View Post

I'm for it.

 

If they're physically old enough to procreate, they're old enough to have control over medical decisions directly related to that.   Including those decisions related to prevention, like birth control, STD prevention, and these vaccinations. 


If 12 year olds are having sex, there are bigger problems to address than the possibility of catching HPV, which most people are infected with anyway. For example, if a 12 year old is seeking out an HPV vaccine because she is having sex, the health professional administering the vaccine has a legal obligation, under mandatory reporting laws, to report. In California, it is a felony for someone 18 or older to have sex with a 12 year old. It is a misdemeanor for someone under 18 to have sex with a 12 year old.

TiredX2 and Bokonon like this.
ma2two is offline  
#30 of 93 Old 09-05-2011, 06:10 AM
 
purslaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I think 12 is too young.  I do think older teens should be able to consent to medical procedure - I do not have a hard and fast date in my head, but 16 seems right. 

 

I live in Ontario, where in theory 12 year olds could be deemed mature minors and capable of making a vaccine choice.

 

Vaccines happen at school here. I do not want the nurse pressuring my children to take a vax, and the fact that all or almost all their friends are taking the vax just adds to the pressure.  My daughter (age 12) had her whole class called in one by one last year for some vax.  She told them she was not supposed to receive the vax and the nurse said "oh, yes you are".   DD said her mom did not sign the form, nurse went to find it, and DD was released unvaxxed (phew!)  Had it been me at 12 and a nurse told me I was receiving a vax I would have just rolled up a sleeve - I was not capable at that age of standing up to authority.

 

FWIW, I have kept my DD home on other vax days - I did not know this "vax" day was coming.  

 

If California passes the law, and people keep kids out on vax days, I wonder if truancy or "unexcused absences" will come into play?

purslaine is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off