Forcing my kid out of school in Vancouver, BC? - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-23-2011, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Mamas,

I'm new on this forum.  I have two beautiful, healthy dd's, aged 7 and 4, both never vaxxed.  I always said I would visit vaccinations as something came up, and I do so much research, that I literally scare myself into not vaccinating.  At this point I'm far more afraid of vaccine injury than I am of the diseases themselves.  My big problem at this moment is there is a Mumps outbreak in The Lower Mainland (Vancouver, BC).  I have been told that if there is a Mumps outbreak in my daughter's school, I will have to remove her from the school for no less than 3 weeks.  Now seeing as it's the end of the school year, that's fine.  However, last year it was a Measles outbreak in April, and we faced the same issue.  My daughter is in French Immersion, and I feel it would be detrimental for her to miss 3 weeks of school because she's not vaxxed....but I feel like that's a bully tactic that I HAVE to get her the MMR vax...the one I'm MOST fearful of.  My husband is either way, he supports what I decide...he'd rather I didn't vax, but won't fight me on it.  I read in our papers last year that they forced one mother's daughter out of school while the measles outbreak happened, and my heart just broke for her.  She rushed her daughter to the dr, got her the MMR shot, and they still told her it was too late, and she had to miss school.  I don't want this to happen to my kids.  I know it's a small chance that the disease will actually show up in her school...I guess I'm wondering HOW they can tell my kid she can't attend classes when it's her Constitutional right to an education...if it's not LAW here to vaccinate, how can they legally keep her out of school?  Thoughts?

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Old 06-23-2011, 02:42 PM
 
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I suppose you can find a way to challenge it based on the constitution.

 

www.vran.org is Canadian. Maybe they can help you.


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Old 06-23-2011, 02:56 PM
 
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Ask them to show you the law that says they can do that. There might actually be a law. Many states in the U.S. do have laws saying unvaccinated children can be excluded from school during an outbreak at the school. But if there is no law, I would fight them on that.

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Old 06-23-2011, 03:02 PM
 
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Are you more scared of the vaccine or of your daughter missing 15 days of school? If I were to consider vaxing, it would be because evidence convinced me it was the safest thing for me to do for my kids. Not because I was afraid she might miss a handful of days of school.

 

My dd is 3 and bilingual. I can tell you that 15 days without one language wouldn't cause her to lose it. It wouldn't even set her back. I am also bilingual, and not being immersed in one language or the other would not cause me to forgot the language. Even if your daughter did take a setback, she would recover within a short time of being back in school.

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Old 06-23-2011, 03:21 PM
 
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My DS is in Grade three and this hasn't come up yet at all.  I haven't tried to find an actual law.  I haven't even really thought a whole lot about it.  I have assumed that some day before DS is done school an outbreak of some sort will occur and he will have to miss school.  I've just accepted it as part of not vaxing.  If anyone does find a law somewhere I would be interested in seeing it, I'm in Alberta though.


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Old 06-23-2011, 03:53 PM
 
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Well, I have right for safe educational enviroment for my kids. So, I would not want my kid to be in the shcool in the midst of epidemic if unvaccinated kids were atteding because I realy on herd immunity factor. So, that argument would not fly.

I had to deal with it on totally unrelated matter. Shcool will try to balance needs of each child. So, they may, for exmpale, provide your child with nessesaary materials and tutoring at home should outbreak occur. My school distric had to find a solutiong that allowed my child, and another child to each have safe and appropriate education.

 

You can always go to healthcare prodiver and see if some sort of modified solution will work for you. For examples, get MMR as 3 separate preservative free shots.

 

I did not get one of MMR booster. At age 18 I was working with kids in the hospital. ONe kid had mump. I caught it. I almost died and I was sick for a very long time. The issues with many childhood ilnesses is that if you are not vaccinated and do not get them as a kid, getting them as an adult as far far worse.

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Old 06-23-2011, 04:38 PM
 
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I'm wondering how the school would even know.  Our school doesn't have access to our children's vaccination status.  It isn't anywhere on the registration forms or requested at all.  In Alberta it is all done through health clinics and not even at doctor's offices.  Last year during the measles outbreak OP mentioned a few cases showed up in Calgary, I'm no where near Calgary but we did receive a general form letter from the health clinic.  It was sent home through the school.  It mentioning that if our child is not up to date that we might want to go get them vaxed.  There was no mention of missing school.  I imagine that the health clinic might be responsible for keeping unvaxed kids out of school in an outbreak.  I just haven't heard of it happening here.


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Old 06-23-2011, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for your reply....I have looked into getting the MMR separated, it is not available here in Canada at all.

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Old 06-23-2011, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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When I applied for my daughter to go to the school (we were out of district) it had a spot on the form for vaccination records.  I obviously had nothing to fill out.  I think I wrote, 'not vaccinated; DO NOT vaccinate.'  They don't require your immunization records in Alberta??

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Old 06-23-2011, 06:53 PM
 
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There is no mention of vaccines on any of the forms for enrollment.  I have a copy right now because my DS2 is going to be going to kindergarten next year and I have the forms to fill out for him.  They do have vaccine clinics at the school for grade 1, 5 and 9, like they do in all AB schools.  When DS 1 was in grade 1 we received a sealed letter from the Health Unit that listed the vaxes he had and the ones he was missing.  I could give permission for him to receive them at the clinic day at the school if we would like or not. 

 

BC has no vaccine mandates for school either but obviously things are done differently if you were asked by the school for vaccine info.


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Old 06-23-2011, 07:41 PM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post
You can always go to healthcare prodiver and see if some sort of modified solution will work for you. For examples, get MMR as 3 separate preservative free shots.

 

Are you implying that the MMR contains a preservative? It does not.

 

Merck stopped producing the separate measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines in 2008.

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Old 06-23-2011, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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hmmmm....I'm starting to think I live too far out West!  One of my best friends lives in Alberta, maybe it's time for a change!  haha  I don't know why the school asked for immunization info, but they did.  I guess I'll just have to hope & pray it doesn't show up in their school.  Ever.  LOL

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Old 06-23-2011, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I wish I had the OPTION of giving my child one immunization shot at a time, with regards to the Measles, Mumps or Rubella.  I hate the thought of giving their little bodies 3 vaxxes at once.  I hate when other parents say to me, 'well you got immunized, didn't you?'.  Sure, I did.  What did I have, like 6 shots?  Now you want to give my KID 36?  Crazy.  For the record, I'm not entirely anti-vax...I'm anti over-vaxing.  :)

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Old 06-23-2011, 09:06 PM
 
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The MMR was not out when I was born. In my baby book, it described measles and mumps as innoculous. I would not get the shots over their stupid scare tactics. I would also lie low and try to hope no one remembers or notices that my children did not have the shots when the outbreaks happen.

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Old 06-23-2011, 09:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronwen13 View Post

I wish I had the OPTION of giving my child one immunization shot at a time, with regards to the Measles, Mumps or Rubella.  I hate the thought of giving their little bodies 3 vaxxes at once.  I hate when other parents say to me, 'well you got immunized, didn't you?'.  Sure, I did.  What did I have, like 6 shots?  Now you want to give my KID 36?  Crazy.  For the record, I'm not entirely anti-vax...I'm anti over-vaxing.  :)



It is closer to 50 by kinder now.

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Old 06-23-2011, 09:19 PM
 
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If there was an outbreak of a serious disease in my kids school, I would not want my unvaxxed kid there.  Some of those diseases are serious and highly contagious, and I do not want my kids to get them.

 

I suppose you could challenge it on an individual basis (a female getting the mumps is not a big deal) but overall I think exclusion from school during an outbreak for Vaccinatable diseases is a good thing.

 

I do think you are borrowing trouble a little bit.  Outbreaks are rare, they will probably not affect you.  If it did happen, I would happily keep my kid home from school.  My reasons for not vaccinating are much stronger than a worry that they will miss 2-3 weeks of school.  Exceptions might include teens in late high school (where missing could be a PITA but I would expect the school to work with me on any missed work including exams)

 

Health trumps school - maybe the community knows this and that is why they have such a policy?

 

Lest you think otherwise, I do not vaccinate.  I simply think it is a good idea for unvaccinated kids to skip school during an outbreak of serious diseases.

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Old 06-23-2011, 09:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

Well, I have right for safe educational enviroment for my kids. So, I would not want my kid to be in the shcool in the midst of epidemic if unvaccinated kids were atteding because I realy on herd immunity factor. So, that argument would not fly.


I am confused.  If your child is vaccinated, don't you expect the vaccine to work?   Why is an unvaccinated child a threat?  

 

Herd immunity works through, well, the herd.  Vaccine rates are in the high 90's in most places.  I do not think you have to worry about herd immunity being low through one childs unvaxxed status.

 

To be clear - I do not think the child should go to school during an outbreak - she could get ill, and spread it to other unvaxxed people.

 

I do not think she is a threat to a vaxed child, though.

 

 

 

 

 

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Old 06-27-2011, 04:22 PM
 
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What do they consider an outbreak?   What percent of kids in the school have to have a CONFIRMED by a doctor disease before it is an outbreak?    You could always ask them what the policy on Influenze outbreaks out & why kids don't have to miss school if they aren't vaxed for the flu.

 

Is it a private school?

 

Have they shown you policy or did they just tell you this was policy?

 

Do you re-register each year?  If so I would leave the immunization area blank.  in Saskatchewan they don't/can't ask you immunization information.    The school has no idea if my kids are vaxed or not.

 

How often do you end up with outbreaks?  My kids are 9m 10 & 12.  My oldest will be going into Grade 8 in the fall.  There have been outbreaks of lice & there was quite a bit of mono this year, then of course the annual bouts of the influenza.  The Swine flu never turned out to be as bad as they figured it would be & the rates of kids missing during that year was the same as every other year.  There have never been outbreaks here of any other disease.  My kids have only missed school due to being sick themselves.

 

No vaccine is mandatory in Canada & if you really wanted to fight it I'm sure you could take it to court so that your child would not miss school(which is mandatory in some form) for something that is not mandatory.

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Old 07-22-2011, 11:41 AM
 
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I agree with Kathymuggle.  I never understand why people with kids who are vaxd feel like my un-vaxed kid is a threat to them.  

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Old 07-26-2011, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

If there was an outbreak of a serious disease in my kids school, I would not want my unvaxxed kid there.  Some of those diseases are serious and highly contagious, and I do not want my kids to get them.



Do you want to clarify this?

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Old 07-26-2011, 11:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nursingmommaof2 View Post





Do you want to clarify this?



What is not clear - please be more specific.  

 

K.

 

 

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Old 07-26-2011, 11:44 AM
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You don't want you child to get contagious and serious VPDs, but you won't vaccinate. You don't see the disconnect? 

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Old 07-26-2011, 12:08 PM
 
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There is no disconnect.  

 

If you are really interested in knowing what I think about vaccines and VPD's feel free to go through my threads.

 

I went through yours and have come to the conclusion you are mostly a pot stirrer.   If I have read you wrong and you are just a noob, my apologies. 

 

Kathy

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Old 07-26-2011, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post

In my baby book, it described measles and mumps as innoculous. 


That's an odd description.

 

CDC says if we stopped doing measles vax, we could expect 2.7 MILLION MEASLES DEATHS PER YEAR globally.  

 

I don't consider that innocuous.  Maybe your book defined things differently.  

 

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Old 07-26-2011, 11:42 PM
 
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I think she was talking about a baby book as in a scrapbook-type book that a parent fills out.  I think what she was getting at, was that when she was a baby, measles was a lot more common and considered a typical childhood disease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFortune 



That's an odd description.

 

CDC says if we stopped doing measles vax, we could expect 2.7 MILLION MEASLES DEATHS PER YEAR globally.  

 

I don't consider that innocuous.  Maybe your book defined things differently.  

 



 


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Old 07-27-2011, 09:30 PM
 
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I guess I am confused, because I really thought that most non-vaxers, delayed and selective vaxers, wanted their kids to get the "childhood illnesses" as children and develop natural immunity.  Avoiding them when you kids are young raises the frightening spectre of adults getting these illnesses, or worse still, pregnant women...  measles and rubella, in particular, are a terrifying prospect during pregnancy. 

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Old 07-28-2011, 07:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama View Post

I guess I am confused, because I really thought that most non-vaxers, delayed and selective vaxers, wanted their kids to get the "childhood illnesses" as children and develop natural immunity.  Avoiding them when you kids are young raises the frightening spectre of adults getting these illnesses, or worse still, pregnant women...  measles and rubella, in particular, are a terrifying prospect during pregnancy. 



I think it depends on the disease.  I would like my kids to have CP, rubella and mumps in childhood.  The diseases can have nasty repercussions in pregant women and sre less fun as adults.

 

Diptheria and tetanus - not at all!

 

Pertussis?  I do not want them to get it at all - but outside of infancy I do not think it is all that dangerous.  It is not fun, however.

 

Measles is a gray zone for me.  I would prefer they do not get it at all.  Some people differ and it is discussed a lot.  Thankfully, with the current stats in the part of the world I live in, it is not a major concern for me.  I am sure someone is going to come on and say "but that is because others vax!".  Simply because I do not want my kids to get a disease does not mean I am Ok with vaxxing.  That is too simplistic a view for a complicated issue.

 

I will look up if measles is dangerous in pregnancy - CP and rubella is thrown around but measles rarely is.

 

Edited to add:  measles may cause miscarriage or premature labour but not birth defects.  http://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/pregnancy-health/complications/measles.aspx

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