Is it dangerous to skip the MMR and Chickenpox vaccine? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 150 Old 07-02-2011, 12:29 PM
 
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We didn't vaccinate our daughter either.  She is three now and I once again chose to pass on vaccinations at her check-up this year.  The MMR in particular scares me.  If there were separate vaccinations I may consider it but it is a lot for her little developing body to handle.  We will wait for now and down the road we can always go back and catch up if we are so inclined.  She did have the chicken pox about a year ago and it wasn't bad at all.  It was a very mild case and she handled it very well.  Granted, I had the shingles at the time and passed chicken pox on to her so I wonder if some immunity passed on through my breast milk.  I never worried about chicken pox though.  As an adult it may be a different story but as I said we can always catch up on some of the vaccinations at a later time when there is less to worry about regarding the effects on her developing body. 

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#62 of 150 Old 07-02-2011, 11:26 PM
 
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I am sorry but you are confused. CP does not gives you immunity to shingles. the reactivation of CP virus causes shingles.

 

WEbMD

"

Shingles - Cause

 

Shingles is a reactivation of the varicella-zoster virus, a type of herpes virus that causes chickenpox. After you have had chickenpox, the virus lies inactive in your nerve roots and remains inactive until, in some people, it flares up again. When the virus becomes active again, you get shingles instead of chickenpox.

Anyone who has had even a mild case of chickenpox can get shingles."

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue View Post





There is a shingles vax right now.  It's mostly marketed to seniors right now.  It will just be marketed to a wider age range soon.  I've see a push for it already.



 

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#63 of 150 Old 07-03-2011, 07:15 AM
 
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According to this article, a particular vaccine prevents shingles 50% of the time.  

 

http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/shingles/shingles-vaccine.

 

Here is another one, citing a 55% reduction:

http://nrsmedic.blogspot.com/2011/01/preventing-shingles.html

 

Not the best odds.

 

Shingles is usually a disease of the elderly.  Given that vaccines decrease in effectiveness over time (hence the need for boosters) it make sense to vaccinate, if you are going that route, in adulthood.  One article I saw said 60 was a good age.

 

In any event - for me the shingles debate is moot for a child.  If the child grows up and is worried about shingles and is Ok with vaxxing they can get it then.  It is a decision they can make for themselves.

 

Vaxxing to wipe out shingles does not work - due to the fact that vaxxing has a low rate in preventing shingles.   

 

I do know a woman who had chicken pox in pregnancy - her child had many health complications due to it.

 

I intend to research more thoroughly both rubella and chicken pox vaccines (along with incidences of pregnancy complications) as my girls hit their teen years.  I am not doing it for a baby though - and actually hope my kids get said diseases so we can avoid the whole disease/vax cost/risk issue.

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#64 of 150 Old 07-03-2011, 10:54 AM
 
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Correct.  That's what I said.  I had the shingles and passed the chicken pox on to my daughter.  As a child I had had the chicken pox and hence this time around I got the shingles.  I did not say that I had immunity to shingles nor that she will have immunity to shingles or even that having a mild case will prevent her from getting chicken pox again.  However, since I had the shingles at the time, starting about a week before my daughter ended up with the chicken pox, my pediatrician thought the reason she may have had such a mild case of the pox is that some anti-bodies were passed on through my milk perhaps allowing for a speedy recovery and a mild case in general.  Whether or not that is true is of course questionable ... but I thought it was interesting enough to share.  The question was whether chicken pox are dangerous and my point was that in our case for our daughter they were not.  If you chose not to vaccinate by the time your child reaches a certain age and chicken pox can impose certain health risks it may be a good idea to reconsider.  And vaccinating against shingles is up to them when they themselves are elderly ...

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#65 of 150 Old 07-03-2011, 01:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post


I am sorry but you are confused. CP does not gives you immunity to shingles. the reactivation of CP virus causes shingles.

 

WEbMD

"

Shingles - Cause

 

Shingles is a reactivation of the varicella-zoster virus, a type of herpes virus that causes chickenpox. After you have had chickenpox, the virus lies inactive in your nerve roots and remains inactive until, in some people, it flares up again. When the virus becomes active again, you get shingles instead of chickenpox.

Anyone who has had even a mild case of chickenpox can get shingles."

 

You're forgetting something here....After contracting and recovering from chickenpox (usually as a child),  your natural immunity gets asymptomatically "boosted" by coming into contact with infected children, who are recovering from chickenpox.  The problem is since the chickenpox vaccine, there is less chickenpox around to provide that natural immune boost for children and adults.   Since there are less children getting the chicken pox, adults are less exposed to it and thus not getting a natural immunity boost to it.  The natural boosting immunity of the CP virus helps protect you from shingles later in life, which is a big reason why the CP vaccine is causing more harm than good.

  

 

 


 

 


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#66 of 150 Old 07-03-2011, 03:16 PM
 
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Me too...I don`t trust vaccinations and besides polio, i refused to vaccinate my two youngest children now 14 and 10 ...i did allow it with my two eldest 21 and 19..but back then i didn`t know anything about our children being used as guinea pigs...angry.gif but my two eldest are fine though namaste.gif
 

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Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

Well in the interest of full disclosure I don't vax at all - but you said you wanted any and all replies so here goes.

 

 

Whether you feel it is dangerous to skip the MMR and CP vaccine all depends on how you feel about those particular diseases. I think a vaccine for CP is ridiculous personally and even if I did vax - I would never do this one. For the record I had CP as an adult (when it is supposed to be DEADLY) and Im still here :) Yes CP can be unpleasant, but a lifetime of immunity would be a great trade off wouldn't it? Vaccine damage and reactions can be unpleasant too.

 

As for MMR well, IF the measles vaccine was still offered as a single vaccine I always said I would at least consider it, but it isn't and therefore well I don't consdier the MMR. I would not touch the MMR if you paid me a milllion dollars to get it. I am not concerned about rubella or mumps (seriously the risk of sterility in mumps is miniscule) and measles while yes it does concern me on some days - (like the days I let the fear mongering bullcrap get to me), Most days I call my mother and ask her about when she had it and every other child she knew had it and I watch the brady bunch clip and remind myself that in the VAST majority of cases measles are not dangerous and 40 years ago it was considered a mild inconvenience for most kids.

 

I won't really get into your statement: "MMR has been proven to not be associated with autism"

because I don't agree with it. It has not PROVEN to not be associated with autism. A series of seriously flawed studies found no causal relationship. I'm not inviting debate from others about this either as it has been hashed out here many times before. Im just offering an opinion.

 

If my child was showing signs of being on the spectrum that I was concerned about (regardless whether the doc was concerned or not)- vaccinating him would be the last thing I would do.



 

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#67 of 150 Old 07-03-2011, 03:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 View Post

 


 

 

You're forgetting something here....After contracting and recovering from chickenpox (usually as a child),  your natural immunity gets asymptomatically "boosted" by coming into contact with infected children, who are recovering from chickenpox.  The problem is since the chickenpox vaccine, there is less chickenpox around to provide that natural immune boost for children and adults.   Since there are less children getting the chicken pox, adults are less exposed to it and thus not getting a natural immunity boost to it.  The natural boosting immunity of the CP virus helps protect you from shingles later in life, which is a big reason why the CP vaccine is causing more harm than good.

  

 

 


 

 



This is true, and unfortunately, it's the reason I'll probably get my kids vaccinated for the chicken pox once they hit 13 if they haven't had it.  I don't think that with younger children, it's dangerous to skip those live vaccines, but personally, I'll most likely be doing them once my kids hit young teens.  All of those viruses are pretty severe in adults and pregnant people.  Since there aren't many children who are giving older people the natural boosters, vaccination wins in the risk/benifit analysis once my kids hit the early teen years.  At least those are my thoughts on it today.  Ask me again when it's time to make those appointments and I may feel differently. 

 


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#68 of 150 Old 07-03-2011, 05:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chaoticzenmom View Post

This is true, and unfortunately, it's the reason I'll probably get my kids vaccinated for the chicken pox once they hit 13 if they haven't had it.  I don't think that with younger children, it's dangerous to skip those live vaccines, but personally, I'll most likely be doing them once my kids hit young teens.  All of those viruses are pretty severe in adults and pregnant people.  Since there aren't many children who are giving older people the natural boosters, vaccination wins in the risk/benifit analysis once my kids hit the early teen years.  At least those are my thoughts on it today.  Ask me again when it's time to make those appointments and I may feel differently. 

 


Ah, yes.  The good 'ol medical merry-go-round.  The neverending, endless circle of medical treatment that you are thinking about getting and otherwise would not have if given a different situation.  It really puts you in a very awkward situation.  We're basically trading one issue for the next, that's all. 


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#69 of 150 Old 07-03-2011, 06:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post


I am sorry but you are confused. CP does not gives you immunity to shingles. the reactivation of CP virus causes shingles.

 

WEbMD

"

Shingles - Cause

 

Shingles is a reactivation of the varicella-zoster virus, a type of herpes virus that causes chickenpox. After you have had chickenpox, the virus lies inactive in your nerve roots and remains inactive until, in some people, it flares up again. When the virus becomes active again, you get shingles instead of chickenpox.

Anyone who has had even a mild case of chickenpox can get shingles."



 

 

I'm not confused.  What in my post made you think I was confused.  There is a vax for shingles is there not?  It's called Zostavax.  I was assuming everyone knew that you needed re-exposure to CP in order to keep up your immunity and not get shingles. My bad.


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#70 of 150 Old 07-04-2011, 01:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue View Post

I'm not confused.  What in my post made you think I was confused.  There is a vax for shingles is there not?  It's called Zostavax.  I was assuming everyone knew that you needed re-exposure to CP in order to keep up your immunity and not get shingles. My bad.


 

On the previous page, Icmrockets said that chicken pox gives you immunity to shingles.  I'm pretty sure that's who Alenushka intended to call confused and am guessing she hit quote on the wrong post and didn't notice.     

 

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#71 of 150 Old 07-04-2011, 04:53 PM
 
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Shingles is mostly a disease of the elderly, but it happens in younger people. I'm 33, and had it last year when I was 32 (my NP's theory was that the work stress I was under weakened my immune system), and my sister had it at 34 during her second pregnancy. It's seriously, seriously uncomfortable.

 

A note on the CP vaccine: I'm another who had CP as a child back in the days when parents often chose to have CP parties when one kid picked it up. If your kids don't get it by puberty, though, give serious thought to the vaccine--the adult (20-something) son of a friend of mine recently came down with one of those "such a severe case he nearly died" adult CP episodes. He was in the hospital for a couple of weeks due to trouble with severe swelling of mucous membranes, if I remember correctly.

 

As for the other vaccinations, I went ahead and did them (and CP) with my son (now 21 months). No issues whatsoever, and honestly I feel a lot more comfortable having him in some of the really public situations we tend to take him into (big museums and historic sites with lots of people from all over) than I would be if he weren't vaccinated.

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#72 of 150 Old 07-04-2011, 09:08 PM
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"Is it dangerous to skip the MMR and Chickenpox vaccine?"

Yes.  Not being vaccinated increases the chances that your kid will get these vaccine preventable diseases and pass them on to other people.  MMR is for life-threatening diseases.  Chicken pox less so, but still pretty nasty and not fun to get.

 

 

 
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#73 of 150 Old 07-06-2011, 02:42 PM
 
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Do your research & go with your gut! It's horrible how many doctors often make us feel like we are "endagering" our children and other children if we opt out of vaccinations. Most of the vaccinations given to us in the states are supposed to prevent an epidemic and diseases that where almost on there way out of the country in the 1990's anyways! My 8mo old has only had his 2mo shots and I regret him ever getting them because he got so sick. You wouldnt believe how helpless and ignorant the pediatrician made me, (a 21 yr. old mother on Medi-Cal), feel after I refused to get his 4mo set. He yelled at me in front of everyone and made me sign papers to transfer to a different DOC. How unprofessional. GO WITH YOUR GUT FEELING!

 

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Doctor should not yell, but they are not ethically obliged to provide treatment they find harmfull. Doctor fire patients all the time.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFortune View Post

"Is it dangerous to skip the MMR and Chickenpox vaccine?"

Yes.  Not being vaccinated increases the chances that your kid will get these vaccine preventable diseases and pass them on to other people.  MMR is for life-threatening diseases.  Chicken pox less so, but still pretty nasty and not fun to get.

 

 

 

if these diseases are vaccine preventable, why are so many cases in the vaccinated popping up? And its the secondary bacterial infections that crop up with the disease that ends up killing the person, but in our country,  with our antibiotics, death is unlikely in an otherwise healthy individual. 

 

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Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

Doctor should not yell, but they are not ethically obliged to provide treatment they find harmfull. Doctor fire patients all the time.


Doctors don't need to agree with the patients/parents but they should definitely require an amount of respect for the patient's/parent's decision. Getting vaccines is not something to be taken lightly and any doctor with a brain in their head should know that and let the parents weigh the decision out for themselves.  Firing patients for their decisions about what they choose to do with their own bodies is just absurd, although I do know it happens.  If I had a doctor like that, I would gladly want to find another one.

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#77 of 150 Old 07-07-2011, 06:13 AM
 
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Doesn't make it right. The AAP guidelines even state that pediatricians should NOT refuse to see unvaccinated children. Honestly it sounds like any doctor that behaves so irrationally is doing that parent a favor. The parent can see what type of doctor they are dealing with (one that works collaboratively with them or one that dictates treatment and expects compliance) and then get the heck out of there and find a better one. You site ethics as a reason why a doctor is justified in dropping unvaccinated children. This is a load if crap since it is entirely unethical for a doctor to drop a patient from care when they have not found a suitable replacement and they do it ALL THE TIME. They are supposed to allow the parent time to find another doctor, but this rarely happens.

 

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Doctor should not yell, but they are not ethically obliged to provide treatment they find harmfull. Doctor fire patients all the time.



 


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Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

200 thousands of children die worldwide  every year from the "harmless" measles. Once the vaccination rates in US fall below 70% and all the heard immunity benefits are gone....I do not even want to think that will happen here. It  will be like one of those 19th century novels.


Yes people do die from the measles, but the majority are in developing nations that are suffering from malnutrition and in particular low levels of Vitamin A. Most healthy well nourished children that contract measles, that are cared for properly (no tylenol given, large doses of Vitamin given, kept warm etc) will not develop complications. And for the people that think it is a relatively harmless vaccine, just go to the VAERS database and look at the all the adverse reactions.
 

 

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Originally Posted by debrad72 View Post




Yes people do die from the measles, but the majority are in developing nations that are suffering from malnutrition and in particular low levels of Vitamin A. Most healthy well nourished children that contract measles, that are cared for properly (no tylenol given, large doses of Vitamin given, kept warm etc) will not develop complications. And for the people that think it is a relatively harmless vaccine, just go to the VAERS database and look at the all the adverse reactions.
 

 


Both my brother and I had measles as children, and we both got through it without any complications and I doubt very much my mother gave us vitamin A, we probably didn't get Tylenol, but I wouldn't be surprised if she dosed us up with junior aspirin which was her go to remedy! 

 


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#80 of 150 Old 07-07-2011, 01:47 PM
 
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My kids are 12 and 9 and still alive despite no vaccines,so I would say no it is not dangerous to skip the MMR/CP.

 

If I were in your situation I would delay a bit  due to the possible *spectrum* issue. You want to vaccinate well after the times when those issues are dxed.

Another thing to consider is when you vax you want your child to be able to fully explain how he/she is feeling.Be sure to get the lot numbers when you do vax.Evaluate for spectrum disorders before you vaccinate,and then and after.

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Originally Posted by mattemma04 View Post

My kids are 12 and 9 and still alive despite no vaccines,so I would say no it is not dangerous to skip the MMR/CP.

 

If I were in your situation I would delay a bit  due to the possible *spectrum* issue. You want to vaccinate well after the times when those issues are dxed.

Another thing to consider is when you vax you want your child to be able to fully explain how he/she is feeling.Be sure to get the lot numbers when you do vax.Evaluate for spectrum disorders before you vaccinate,and then and after.


Thank you for this!!!! :)

 


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#82 of 150 Old 07-10-2011, 11:09 AM
 
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The MMR is contaminated: http://www.fearoftheinvisible.com/mmr-dangerously-contaminated 

 

Measles being hyped to scare parents: http://www.fearoftheinvisible.com/trouble-with-mmr 

 

Vaccines in general are highly contaminated: http://www.fearoftheinvisible.com/cannot-clean-the-vaccine 


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#83 of 150 Old 07-12-2011, 11:53 AM
 
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Hmmm

 

Is this waht is happening to all those old  Eastern European patients with shingles I work with?  They were exposed to CP in Easter Europ their entire life. So, this idea of natural boos hold no water to me. Is there a link to an actualy study that can proove it?

 

I happen to know many American who had shingles and whow ere exposed to plenty of kids with CP

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 View Post

 


 

 

You're forgetting something here....After contracting and recovering from chickenpox (usually as a child),  your natural immunity gets asymptomatically "boosted" by coming into contact with infected children, who are recovering from chickenpox.  The problem is since the chickenpox vaccine, there is less chickenpox around to provide that natural immune boost for children and adults.   Since there are less children getting the chicken pox, adults are less exposed to it and thus not getting a natural immunity boost to it.  The natural boosting immunity of the CP virus helps protect you from shingles later in life, which is a big reason why the CP vaccine is causing more harm than good.

  

 

 


 

 



 

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Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

Hmmm

 

Is this waht is happening to all those old  Eastern European patients with shingles I work with?  They were exposed to CP in Easter Europ their entire life. So, this idea of natural boos hold no water to me. Is there a link to an actualy study that can proove it?

 

I happen to know many American who had shingles and whow ere exposed to plenty of kids with CP

 



 


I got my information regarding this from other sites (not Wikipedia) but I figure this is the most neutral source. It mentions this under sections Vaccination Worldwide and Controversy.   I also actually posted the study that is found within the Wikipedia footnote link below (24,25)  regarding Americans and the problem with the varicella vaccine and Shingles. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicella_vaccine 
 

http://herpesdoctor.net/chickenpox-vaccine-linked-shingles-epidemic 


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#85 of 150 Old 07-12-2011, 03:46 PM
 
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Stress can also bring on shingles, just as it can trigger a herpes outbreak.  It happened to my husband, he got stressed out and broke out in shingles. Twice. 

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#86 of 150 Old 07-12-2011, 06:08 PM
 
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Yes, stress is a big one. Nutritional deficiencies, a weakened state of immunity in older individuals, emotional trauma, and going into a state of fear can all weaken the immune system and trigger an outbreak. Oh yeah, and lack of natural boosting!


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#87 of 150 Old 07-12-2011, 06:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post

Stress can also bring on shingles, just as it can trigger a herpes outbreak.  It happened to my husband, he got stressed out and broke out in shingles. Twice. 



Yup.  Coworkers mother - got sick and stressed from sickness.  Recovered.   Got shingles  - recovered (shingles is not fun but is not dangerous to most healthy people according to Google)

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#88 of 150 Old 07-13-2011, 08:46 AM
 
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There are many studies that discuss this: One is " Varicella Vaccine and Shingles" JAMA  May 1, 2002; 287(17):2211

 

here's another reference to a study done in the international journal of toxicology http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/01/12896.aspx

 

Some overseas references: http://www.hpa.org.uk/webw/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1221638180451?p=1204186170287

 

really the notion of CP serving as a natural booster and being protective for shingles is an accepted and known fact. Whether you choose to believe it or not is irrelevant.

 

http://www2.ukhealthcare.uky.edu/publications/AI/general/shingles.asp

 

 

Quote:
 

Because of the success of the chicken pox vaccine, there are fewer incidents today of what was once a common childhood disease. As a result, adults rarely get re-exposed to chicken pox. Re-exposure can help elevate antibodies to the varicella zoster virus.

 



 

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Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

Hmmm

 

Is this waht is happening to all those old  Eastern European patients with shingles I work with?  They were exposed to CP in Easter Europ their entire life. So, this idea of natural boos hold no water to me. Is there a link to an actualy study that can proove it?

 

I happen to know many American who had shingles and whow ere exposed to plenty of kids with CP

 



 



 

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If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#89 of 150 Old 07-13-2011, 09:02 PM
 
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It is obviously fail to act as booster in many people. I plan to get a shingles vaccine.  I really do not need the pain and suffering of shingles in my life.

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#90 of 150 Old 07-14-2011, 08:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

It is obviously fail to act as booster in many people. I plan to get a shingles vaccine.  I really do not need the pain and suffering of shingles in my life.



 and you are free to do so. The point is not really about the shingles vaccine, it is about the fact that when vaccines are created (like the CP vaccine) no consideration is given to the long term consequences of that vaccine - such as a rise in shingles. Listen Im not downplaying shingles. My mother is 73 and is suffering from post herpetic neuralgia right now and is in pain and it's frustrating and heartbreaking and maybe if she had gotten the shingles vaccine, she would have avoided what she is now having to endure. Athough what I can't help be bitter about is that if the CP vaccine hadn't taken away all of her opportunities to get those natural boosters, maybe she wouldn't have gotten the shingles either.

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If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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Vaccinations , Mmr , Chicken Pox , Shingles , American Academy Of Pediatrics

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