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#91 of 107 Old 10-01-2011, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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 The theory of population reduction is commonly linked to outlandish theories, such as space aliens. First, people assume that if you believe in one theory, you automatically believe in other theories. This is not fair at all, nor does it disprove my original theory.

This is straight out of the playbook, and it's as obvious as they come--try to discredit a person by mocking them, and categorizing them into the "crazy alien shapeshifter conspiracy type of theorist". So the common person, who will not look into the matter, will simply laugh it off and move on.

 

I hope you are not laughing off the issues I've brought up. I hope you at least read some of the links.  I will list the important issues again, and please tell me what you think. I understand that most people will not share my conclusion, because we all have a different way of thinking. However, what do you think? I'm genuinely curious. Do you see a problem at all? Or is the only problem that you don't like the way I think of our government, of our world leaders? Is that what bothers you the most here? My thought "crimes"?

 

This is what bothers me, and why I've decided that it's deliberately--not accidentally--evil. The list can be much longer.

 

*GMOs.....................evidence of harm when consumed, threat to natural organisms, almost all soy is genetically modified

*Fluoride...................in water supply, recommended for babies

*Aspartame..............known to be harmful before it was unleashed, and it the way it was approved exposes the corrupt system

*Vaccines................adverse reactions downplayed, under reported; often contaminated, chemicals cause infertility, aluminum

*Depleted Uranium....danger known beforehand, now babies are born deformed, and troops are sick/dying. So evil!

*Economy................NAFTA, bad deal on purpose! world economies crashing by design

*History................... the Nazis never left the US! It is true. We also have a real history of eugenics.

*Drug companies......come on!

*Gov't corruption........does anybody argue with this one? It's common knowledge

 

(Notice, I didn't even bring up chemtrails and 9/11, which are not proven....yet. They are still theories, while the above list is provable.)

 

So, does any of this bother you? Of course it does. I just happen to believe it's intentional, deliberate. You might not believe it is, but I don't understand why I'm mocked. Surely, there are ways pop.control can be done, and surely it has been done in the past. It is not a stretch of the imagination to think it's being done on purpose now. It's in our history!  But, you decide to put me in the alien robot conspiracy group. Do you see the problem with that? This  tactic does not help you prove your point--it only diverts the very real conversation. By mocking my theory, you have done absolutely nothing to disprove it.

 

What do you people think? So far, I've heard nothing but mockery. Do any of these real issues bother you at all? Or is it easier to turn a blind eye, and make fun of me? So far, the most outrage you've expressed is with my way of thinking--not with any of the issues I've raised. Apparently, poisoning kids and bombing innocent people is not as bad as me pointing out the problem. ??

 

 

 

P.S. Corruption in the gov't and drug companies should not be tolerated. We all know it exists, but it has become so commonplace and almost expected. This is not ok. You can believe it is only greed that drives these people--not deliberate harm, like I believe-- but that is still no excuse for what they do. I believe it's deliberate, you believe it's only greed-driven, but whatever it is, it's not right. Have we lost our standards? When did this become acceptable?

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#92 of 107 Old 10-01-2011, 12:07 PM
 
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Becky (serious question - not mocking)

 

Why do you think they would want to lower the population?  Dead people do not buy products, and they want people to buy products.

 

 

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#93 of 107 Old 10-01-2011, 12:31 PM
 
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.

This thread made me curious as to why people are drawn to conspiracy theories and his reasons make a lot of sense.

Why are conspiracy theories so popular?

 

By BobLloyd

 

Stories are so much easier

The web is full of the most amazing conspiracy theories ranging from the claims that no-one has landed on the moon, through the CIA planning 9/11, right up to earthquakes being caused by testing experimental weapons. Somewhere in between comes the idea that climate change is a conspiracy between various agencies such as governments, light-bulb manufacturers, scientists, and environmentalists.

Along the way we have overlaps in irrationality between those who claim we are all descended from alien races, that the world is going to end sometime soon, and that there is some all-encompassing energy field we can tap into. Entertaining though these stories are, we might wonder why so many people are drawn into them and believe them so firmly.

The search for easy answers

What causes climate change? That is not an easy question to answer and it take years of consistent, painstaking research to identify the factors involved, their relative importance, and their interactions. It takes a long time to develop the technology to provide the appropriate measurements to test the predictions from theories. To understand how all this works, to understand the scientific details, take some serious effort in study.

Many people either are not able to, or are unwilling to devote the time to studying the science behind it, and therefore are looking for a conclusion they can grasp with less effort. Simple explanations would suffice if they were available, and many people are happy to go with simplistic explanations. That's often the basis of prejudice.

Some things are complex and in order to understand them, we have to make an effort. Conspiracy theories and irrational explanations cut out that time-consuming learning process and jump straight to the desired conclusions.

Deep suspicion

Many people are deeply suspicious of governments and official bodies. Because they distrust the drug corporations or governments, the assume that everything they say must by definition be false. Any of their actions must have some hidden motive which will invalidate whatever they claim.

In the case of governments, particularly in the US, some people resent the role of government in regulating public affairs. Brought up on an ideology of unfettered freedom and opposition to taxation, they see the growth of government as being against their interests, and are therefore predisposed to oppose government actions.

In the case of drug companies, they may feel that since every human condition is medicalised for profit, that therefore the whole of medicine is untrustworthy. They throw the baby out with the bath water.

Not understanding the need for evidence

Anyone can make any claims they like and the only way we can tell which is right and which is wrong, is by looking at the evidence. But if we have already ruled out the trustworthiness of anyone who might offer evidence, we won't even consider it.

In the absence of any evidence, one story is as credible as the next. So for example, once we have dispensed with the idea that clinical medicine can be trusted, we reject any medical explanation for any treatment. That opens the way for us to propose another alternative explanation, without evidence. Since we don't accept clinical medicine as offering reliable evidence, we don't need to produce any ourselves.

But the problem with this approach is that even if we dismiss established knowledge, an alternative still needs to establish its claim using reliable evidence. It doesn't become credible simply because the believer has rejected conventional, evidenced knowledge.

Ignorance of science

There are very many strange theories about undetected energies, the properties of various substances such as crystals and magnets, and sound and light. But in all cases, science has already established a wealth of knowledge about these subjects. We already know a great deal about energy, its various forms and the means by which one is converted to another.

Ignorance of these processes, these basic scientific concepts and facts, makes people gullible to fanciful claims about the property of things. Sometimes there is some effort made to use scientific terms but without the necessary rigour to give them meaning. For example, some people will talk about the fundamental frequencies of crystals, or the biophysical effects of magnets.

But they won't realise that all objects have a fundamental frequency and that crystals remain inert until excited by a strong external energy source. The crystal itself will do absolutely nothing. They will think that because a magnet attracts metal, it must affect your blood circulation because blood contains iron, and of course iron is magnetic. But they don't know that blood is not magnetic.

Notoriety in opposition

There are some people who enjoy standing out from the crowd. They like to be the centre of attention and enjoy being noticed by other people. Some do this naturally because they are congenial engaging people who develop their own popularity. Some have talents and expertise that naturally raise them to public attention.

But there are others who would like the attention, but lack the means of getting it. Adopting an oppositional stance provides some attention. Creating or supporting wacky theories serves the same purpose. Riding on the waggon of doubt, exploiting uncertainty, encouraging confusion, and spreading unsupported stories such as conspiracy theories, provides them with just the attention they want.

Running a business

Businesses run by selling things to people willing to pay for them. If there's a market already, we can join it by offering our products. But it is more profitable if a new market can be created in which we are automatically the market leader. And if we can sell a new belief, so much the better.

That is why during the alternative medicine boom of the 90s, so many differentiated theories of alternative medicine flourished. People started claiming to diagnose illnesses by looking at the iris in the eye, by pressing the feet, cracking backs, and all sorts of other approaches. Inspiration was often drawn from obscure mystical theories from the East.

Some people claimed water has a memory (it doesn't), others that healing energy can be transferred to people (it doesn't exist), or that you needed your chakras aligning (they don't exist either). The claims of alternative medicine have been scientifically investigated and consistently found to be groundless. It hasn't stopped people making money out of it.

Running a business based on unevidenced claims would normally run the risk of prosecution for fraud but alternative medicine can avoid the charge by carefully dressing the therapies in beliefs. It is highly profitable but also ethically highly questionable.

The need for excitement

If there was a healing energy floating around ready to be used to help people, that would be really cool. If it was possible to cure people with water that had a memory, that would be great. If you really could diagnose illness by pressing parts of the foot, that would save hospitals a fortune. If there were channels and chakras and doshas, and meridians and the like, it would be interesting.

But enjoying the success of a claim for treatment without showing the evidence, is just an illusion. It's believing in fairies, leprechauns, unicorns, magic. It enjoying that child-like fascination with fantasy, made up stories, imaginary characters, fictitious events, and exciting challenges.

Without a basic understanding of science or human biology, there are many fantasies about medical treatment and the causes of illness that persist in this fantasy state. It provides excitement for those wanting a better, simpler reality. Instead of the complexities of metabolic problems, we have some unbalanced chakra. And as long as you reject the science totally, you can maintain the fiction.
 

Rationalism is open-minded

It may seem a dull place where everything turns out to be fairly complicated and knowledge is accumulated by slow steady work. And being skeptical about new theories is being closed-minded, right? Wrong.

Science works by challenging theories, by questioning results, by looking for contradictions and evidence against the claims. Anyone can come along with a better explanation at any time and have it considered and checked by others. Scientists are extremely open-minded because they are driven by the desire to understand what is happening. They want to know the truth. They will consider any explanation on its merits. But they're not easily fooled.

If someone proposes for example, healing energy, it will be taken seriously and subjected to critical scrutiny. First in the list of questions is "what evidence is there for its existence?" That's not being close-minded but open-minded: they are open to consider anything and are inviting the presentation of new information in the form of evidence.

Theories are not all equivalent. Some are just wacky and stupid. Some are just plain wrong. Some are deliberately misinforming. Some are bordering on criminal in their social impact. We need to be able to filter out the silly and misleading ones, the venal and the dishonest, and we do that by using evidence. There's no shortcut.

 


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Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

 

 

 

 

 

What do you people think? So far, I've heard nothing but mockery. Do any of these real issues bother you at all? Or is it easier to turn a blind eye, and make fun of me? So far, the most outrage you've expressed is with my way of thinking--not with any of the issues I've raised. Apparently, poisoning kids and bombing innocent people is not as bad as me pointing out the problem. ??

 

 

A lot of those issues bother me... and I don't turn a blind eye to them. I also don't mind folks disagreeing with our government or believing people are corrupt. There is just such a huge paranoid leap to poisoning children on purpose and some of your other points. Also, you seem to be astounded that we believe our sources for information and we are astounded you put faith in your sources. It's the same thing. You gotta believe somebody, right? I don't put you in a category with people who believe in space aliens etc... I just think you read some stuff that scares you and you don't know how to tease out fact from fiction. That's what I think.

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Originally Posted by savannah smiles View Post

 First in the list of questions is "what evidence is there for its existence?" That's not being close-minded but open-minded: they are open to consider anything and are inviting the presentation of new information in the form of evidence.Theories are not all equivalent. Some are just wacky and stupid. Some are just plain wrong. Some are deliberately misinforming. Some are bordering on criminal in their social impact. We need to be able to filter out the silly and misleading ones, the venal and the dishonest, and we do that by using evidence. There's no shortcut.

 


Again, yet the vast majority of the world believes in a higher being, for which there is NO evidence. 

 

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A lot of those issues bother me... and I don't turn a blind eye to them. I also don't mind folks disagreeing with our government or believing people are corrupt. There is just such a huge paranoid leap to poisoning children on purpose and some of your other points. Also, you seem to be astounded that we believe our sources for information and we are astounded you put faith in your sources. It's the same thing. You gotta believe somebody, right? I don't put you in a category with people who believe in space aliens etc... I just think you read some stuff that scares you and you don't know how to tease out fact from fiction. That's what I think.

 

Blue mine.  I think that is quite the assumption, and a little...arrogant?

 

Your world view differs from hers - I do not say you are incapable of teasing out fact from fiction because of this. 
 

 

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She asked what I thought, so I told her. She may think the same of me, since we put our faith in different sources, and that's okay. I don't think it's arrogant. She seemed quite curious how people were reacting to things she said, and I gave an honest answer. I also shared with her that we agree on some things.

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Originally Posted by savannah smiles View Post

.

This thread made me curious as to why people are drawn to conspiracy theories and his reasons make a lot of sense.

Why are conspiracy theories so popular?


 

 

That's a cute opinion piece.  It's also naive and idealistic.

 

Evidence is subjective.  What kind of "evidence" would be acceptable for theories like this?  Is mainstream media the only acceptable source?  Because someone provides a blog link or YouTube video and they are vilified.  The bottom line is that we aren't always given the full story by the media.  MDC posters know this, right?  Co-sleeping is good, and CIO bad, though the "evidence" on these things is sketchy.

 

Did you know that the CIA placed journalists in news agencies all over the world to manipulate information being released, and to gather information?  It was called Operation Mockingbird.  That's not a conspiracy theory.  That's fact.

http://carlbernstein.com/magazine_cia_and_media.php

 

Did you know that the CIA also did mind control experiments on unwilling participants, many of these experiments using LSD?  Again, not a conspiracy theory.  Project MKULTRA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_ultra

 

Did you know that the US recruited Nazi scientists after WWII, and many of those helped lay the foundation for MKULTRA?  Operation Paperclip.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

 

Oh, and remember when the US apologized to Guatemala for infecting hundreds of unwitting participants with STDs?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39456324/ns/health-sexual_health/t/us-apologizes-guatemala-std-experiments/

 

And the Tuskegee experiment, which went on for 40 (!) years, denying poor black men a diagnosis and treatment for syphilis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment

 

There are many more examples of medical experimentation on unknowing patients:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/27/AR2011022700988_2.html

 

Really, you can pretend that the government and powers that be are good and altruistic and that there is transparency in their projects and motives, but that is simply not rooted in fact or history. It's an incredibly naive world view, and you can mock and laugh at those who are less trusting than you, but don't ever forget that conspiracy theories exist because there always have been and always will be actual conspiracies.  Fundamental human ethics and morals haven't changed so greatly since many of these experiments were done; the documents are simply being declassified now.  Pretending that people were evil in the 1950s but wouldn't dare think of such transgressions now is just ignorant.

 


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Blue mine.  I think that is quite the assumption, and a little...arrogant?

 

Your world view differs from hers - I do not say you are incapable of teasing out fact from fiction because of this.  

 



It definitely seems arrogant to me, that she assumes that she is right and any other view is wrong, based on nothing but skepticism.


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It definitely seems arrogant to me, that she assumes that she is right and any other view is wrong, based on nothing but skepticism.



I don't assume "any" other view is wrong. I assume that OP has read some things that scared her and she is passing on that information- she's talked about eugenics/population control, vaccines, big pharma, cancer, mainstream doctors, Nazis, the Bush family, extreme environmentalists, aspartame, fluoride, managed health care, GMOs, forced sterilization and Bill Gates all in a few breaths! She sounds overwhelmed.

 

 

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I don't assume "any" other view is wrong. I assume that OP has read some things that scared her and she is passing on that information- she's talked about eugenics/population control, vaccines, big pharma, cancer, mainstream doctors, Nazis, the Bush family, extreme environmentalists, aspartame, fluoride, managed health care, GMOs, forced sterilization and Bill Gates all in a few breaths! She sounds overwhelmed.

 

 

Blue mind.

 

First you made comments about teasing fact from fiction, and now you make comments about her being overwhelmed....

 

Let's not patronise each and other; let's keep it to the topic at hand.

 

I agree with a lot of what the OP has to say but not necessarily her conclusions.  I think the point I made about "dead people don't buy drugs"  and another poster made on  "why isn't the population decreasing?" are quite relevant to the discussion.  Speculations about her state of being are not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#102 of 107 Old 10-01-2011, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Kathy, I would never think you were mocking me. Your posts are always thoughtful and kind. I know you are genuine!

 

Well, I am not sure why they want to lower population. I don't put it past them, and this is why I think they might be doing it......

 At the top of this, you have a small amount of very wealthy, powerful people, who think it is their duty? place? to talk about world affairs. The Bilderberg conference is one example. (Then, you have the Bohemian Grove retreat, which is a whole different animal lol!!) Anyways, the elite we'll call them, have been known to talk about eugenics/population control and world governments throughout history. Even Bill Gates talks about it, although he tries to take a positive approach. The end, though, still points to lower population.

 

Considering these elites are often the heads of these large corporations, and are already wealthy, I feel they have turned their attention onto population control.  We all know Ted Turner's opinion lol. They might not worry about billions of people to buy their products, since they are already wealthy. Since control and extreme wealth go hand in hand. So, a lust for control might be one reason. If there are less people, they will be easier to control, using food, electricity, medicine, money, regulations, police state, etc. The elites and their corporations will still be wealthy, even with less people. Tyrannical governments have existed in the past, and some exist to this day. Right now, the population is enormous and uncontrollable.

 

Another reason might be their love for the environment, and the carrying capacity: The carrying capacity of a biological species in an environment is the maximum population size of the species that the environment can sustain indefinitely, given the food, habitat, water and other necessities available in the environment. In population biology, carrying capacity is defined as the environment's maximal load, which is different from the concept of population equilibrium.

 

These elites, often turned environmentalists, might feel the world population needs to be reduced in order to protect the planet, animals, and even each other. Too many people=disaster, so they try to find ways to reduce the population. The ways must be secret, because nobody will line up for voluntary sterilization! We see a trend in the world, pushing the theory of Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW)--meaning, human bad, killing planet. Must have less people, or else planet die! 

How about that human population counter a few posts back? Is this meant to encourage people to support a lower world population?

 

Notice, I don't have the answers. I only take what I've read, and for me, population control seems to make the most sense. There could be several reasons why they want to cull the population--maybe one is true, maybe all, or maybe there's a reason I haven't thought of.  It's just too hard to ignore history, full of killings, corruption, and sadness. I don't think it has gone away, but they've gotten better with hiding it.

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Blue mind.

 

First you made comments about teasing fact from fiction, and now you make comments about her being overwhelmed....

 

Let's not patronise each and other; let's keep it to the topic at hand.

 

I agree with a lot of what the OP has to say but not necessarily her conclusions.  I think the point I made about "dead people don't buy drugs"  and another poster made on  "why isn't the population decreasing?" are quite relevant to the discussion.  Speculations about her state of being are not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Regarding those points, my answers (which are not necessarily my beliefs, but are how I understand these theories) are:

For wanting a reduced population - fewer people are easier to control than many.  

For the question of why isn't the population decreasing - either, yes, the strategies theorized are not working well, are more long-term goals than short-term, or perhaps the population is actually not increasing but we are told it is.  After all, we pretty much have to accept population numbers as "they" tell us.  Again, this isn't what I believe, but I don't think it's that preposterous either.

 


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Buzzer Beater, you are correct. This information is overwhelming, there's no question about that. The only difference is that I believe it's intentional, not accidental or purely greed-driven. The information exists, and it probably doesn't matter why. I just dwell on the why and how a little too much.

 

In the end though, we all should work to support what is right, and that's my motivation for posting. To raise awareness and try to make positive changes. Hey, we stopped x-raying pregnant women, right? And, some places allow VBAC's. We don't drug and strap down laboring women, or do routine episiotomies. Let the cord finish pulsing, allow water births, birth freedom in general......ending slavery, desegregating schools, voters' rights is another good one.

 

Maybe I should make a list of all the positive changes that have come from activism. We still have a long way to go though!


 
 
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#105 of 107 Old 10-01-2011, 10:46 PM
 
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Thanks BeckyBird for persevering--in both your research and this thread! You have very gracefully managed to pass along lots of information in spite of numerous distractions. I'm very grateful.

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#106 of 107 Old 10-02-2011, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you Annjo! love.gif


 
 
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More from Dr. Tenpenny, for anyone who is still interested in this subject. She once again talks about her view of the depopulation agenda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od7B79q_58s  Fast forward to 8 minutes for her interview.

 

 

While speaking about flu vaccines, how they don't work, cause adverse affects, etc, she says,

"How could they be so negligent? They can't. They can't be that negligent. It has to have an element of intent."   http://www.youtube.com/user/astonisher1#p/c/CCAC240DE22298FA/2/Od7B79q_58s

 

 

 

This lady also speaks about the subject of eugenics in our country today. Former pharmaceutical sales rep, Gwen Olsen. Here's her site. http://www.gwenolsen.com/

Here's her interview with Mike Adams, where she talks about eugenics. You can take her expertise into consideration, or you can listen to the messages sent out from the pharmaceutical giants, the media (who is totally bought out) or, ha, the government. All one in the same.

http://www.youtube.com/user/astonisher1#p/c/3D19AFF208048E01/22/SwHGdRbHJuc


 
 
 "Medical propaganda ops are, in the long run, the most dangerous. They appear to be neutral. They wave no political banners. They claim to be science. For these reasons, they can accomplish the goals of overt fascism without arousing suspicion.” — Jon Rappoport
 
 
 
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