Vaccinating Without Parental Knowledge Soon To Become The Norm Across The World - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 27 Old 10-12-2011, 03:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.preventdisease.com/news/11/092811_Vaccinating-Without-Parental-Knowledge-Soon-To-Become-The-Norm-Across-The-World.shtml

 

It was just a little over one year ago when the pharmaceutical industry, the Department of Health and Human Services, and Centers for Disease Control allocated millions of dollars in funding to establish vaccine clinics in public schools, causing a huge uproar from concerned parents. 

The RAND Corporation, paid by Sanofi Pasteur, outlined how to turn schools into vaccine clinics, which critics claimed will inevitably poison children with multi-dose vaccines. 

 

 

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...............................

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#2 of 27 Old 10-12-2011, 07:46 AM
 
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People we are on our own. We have to claim our sovereign right over our health or be consigned to a lifetime of chronic ill health (its not really ill health as such, but having our bodies in a constant state of healing that never resolves) if we choose their conventional medicine. It is patently obvious that governments and the corporations that control them do not have our best interests at heart at the very least. I have taught my children to resist any vaccinations they might be forced to take at school. They know to call me immediately, hide and leave the building as soon as they can, if they need to.


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#3 of 27 Old 10-12-2011, 03:05 PM
 
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#4 of 27 Old 10-12-2011, 04:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by miriam View Post

OMG! If I had children of school age today, I would homeschool, again.

 

What happens if you have an exemption on file and your child goes in anyway?  Does anyone pay attention to the exemption on record?  



This is why I remind my son often that if anyone tries to give him a shot, to scream NO and tell them to call his mother.  I don't know that my school district will do shots at school, or that they won't respect exemptions or even respect my son saying no, but it's the best I can do (other than keeping him home on a known shot day if there was one).  

 

Homeschooling isn't an option for my family, and the recent developments in California scare me. 

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#6 of 27 Old 10-13-2011, 04:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by miriam View Post

We should all recall that Marcella Gruelle died in just this way. She was supposedly given a smallpox vaccination at school w/o her parents' knowledge nor their permission nearly 100 years ago.  We need to learn from our mistakes or we will just repeat them and have to live through the tragedies all over again.

 

She died from the side effects of the vaccines.  You know her through her dolls, the Raggedy Ann and Andy dolls.

 

"Gruelle created Raggedy Ann for his daughter, Marcella, when she brought him an old hand-made rag doll and he drew a face on it. From his bookshelf, he pulled a book of poems by James Whitcomb Riley, and combined the names of two poems, "The Raggedy Man" and "Little Orphant Annie." He said, "Why don’t we call her Raggedy Ann?" 

Marcella died at age 13 after being vaccinated at school for smallpox without her parents' consent. Authorities blamed a heart defect, but her parents blamed the vaccination. Gruelle became an opponent of vaccination, and the Raggedy Ann doll was used as a symbol by the anti-vaccination movement" -from wikipedia article on Raggedy Ann.

 

Note the italicized bolded line - sound familiar?


Wow, I didn't even know they did that at schools back then.  I didn't know this about the Raggedy Ann doll. Thanks for providing the background on this miriam! Very interesting.
 

 


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#7 of 27 Old 10-18-2011, 01:44 PM
 
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That is so interesting about Raggedy Ann.  Makes me want to go get one now.


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#8 of 27 Old 10-18-2011, 02:29 PM
 
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Scary.. we select and delay vax. One of mine does have a vaccine related injury.. I do not discuss it online because she's close enough to adult age that I feel its her business not mine. My kids have never been at schools where shots were given but I did coach them that they were to receive NO shots unless mom or dad were present.
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#9 of 27 Old 10-18-2011, 03:05 PM
 
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The only involvement our local schools have in vaccines is sending a letter when kids are not up-to-date. This sounds like a lot of overblown hysteria to me. Did you people not read in the article that parental consent forms would have to be obtained in that scenario? Even if there were vaccine clinics in schools, they wouldn't be dragging children in without parental say so. This is hardly something I would bail on public school over.
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#10 of 27 Old 10-18-2011, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post

 Even if there were vaccine clinics in schools, they wouldn't be dragging children in without parental say so. This is hardly something I would bail on public school over.


yes, actually children have been vaxed without parental consent at school...they have also been vaxed when the parent signed the NO VAX on the form..and the child was vaxed anyway.  I wouldn't bail on public school over it, but i would keep my child home that day to prevent an "accidental" vaccinating.

 

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#11 of 27 Old 10-18-2011, 07:59 PM
 
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This is disturbing. "But parental consent forms are not a guarantee that children whose parents do not consent to the H1N1 vaccination, or who actively object to it, will not mistakenly receive the vaccine. The relative success of school-located H1N1 vaccination programs in mass immunizing an at-risk population has been peppered with media reports of vaccines mistakenly administered, contrary to parental consent.

Mistakenly, but it still happened.

 

There is even a whole section, titled:      

IV. Non-injurious school vaccine mistakes

 

*"Causes of action in incidents of H1N1 vaccines mistakenly given to children, contrary to parental consent, which do not result in any immediate apparent injury, are unlikely to succeed in the historical and modern judicial climate surrounding school vaccinations, despite the claims of some that such acts may constitute battery or assault."

 

*How's this one for you......"Justice Harlan wrote: “[T]he liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States . . . does not import an absolute right in each person to be, at all times and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint. There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good. One such restraint that courts have long favored is vaccination requirements, because of their public health benefits."

 

*The H1N1 school-located vaccine clinics are examples of such “common good” public health initiatives, which have been historically treated with favor by the courts. Thus, parents seeking remedy for vaccines administered to their children without consent face a number of obstacles.

 

To read the entire article--and it's a great read--click here http://www.mdchhs.com/sites/default/files/pdf_articles/needles_in_the_h1n1_haystack.pdf

 

What would you do if your child were subjected to a medical procedure against your wishes? Think about it....I'm sure 99% of you parents have at least  ~ONE~ thing you don't want your kid to do/have: High Fructose Corn Syrup, Aspartame, Meat products, Listen to/watch something against your beliefs, such as religious or political in nature, etc.  The list is endless, so think of something you don't want your kid to have, eat, watch, learn, etc.

 

Now, what if your kid were given this at school, and you strongly disapproved? What would you do? What could you do about it? This is such a violation, and I hope even those of you who love vaccines can see the problem with it.

 

 

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#12 of 27 Old 10-20-2011, 11:20 AM
 
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#13 of 27 Old 10-20-2011, 11:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miriam View Post

If you consider how many women on these boards have complained that their newborns receive the Hepatitis B vaccine at birth w/o permission and against the parents' wishes, then what would keep a school nurse from cajoling a young child into accepting a vaccine if they could be convinced it was for their betterment?



 

Most likely the ethics of practicing medicine, the ideals of upholding informed consent and the overwhelming likelihood the parents would sue the school & nurse


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#14 of 27 Old 10-20-2011, 11:44 AM
 
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Most likely the ethics of practicing medicine, the ideals of upholding informed consent and the overwhelming likelihood the parents would sue the school & nurse


Yeah, those are the things I was thinking of that would prevent it.

Honestly, I haven't seen scores of women on these boards claiming that their babies were vaccinated with Hep B without their consent. I've read stories of women being pressured by doctors to consent (which is not the same) and of situations where one parent had a child vaccinated without the knowledge of the other (which is not the same thing, either). I'm not saying it's never happened, but in our litigious society, I doubt it happens a lot. (I declined Hep B for my newborn and you can bet I'd have sued if he'd been vaccinated. As it was, no one made a peep about it.)
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Originally Posted by zinemama View Post


Yeah, those are the things I was thinking of that would prevent it.
Honestly, I haven't seen scores of women on these boards claiming that their babies were vaccinated with Hep B without their consent. I've read stories of women being pressured by doctors to consent (which is not the same) and of situations where one parent had a child vaccinated without the knowledge of the other (which is not the same thing, either). I'm not saying it's never happened, but in our litigious society, I doubt it happens a lot. (I declined Hep B for my newborn and you can bet I'd have sued if he'd been vaccinated. As it was, no one made a peep about it.)


But if the baby was out of your sight for even a minute, and there was no adverse reaction (or even if there was!), you might not know if he had been vaccinated without your consent.

 

I do see moms posting about nurses at the pediatrician's office just giving a shot before the mom can even say no, or retracting their son's foreskins for that matter.  Consent is not always practiced or even asked for.


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#17 of 27 Old 10-20-2011, 02:47 PM
 
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But if the baby was out of your sight for even a minute, and there was no adverse reaction (or even if there was!), you might not know if he had been vaccinated without your consent.


So you're saying you believe a doctor would vaccinate a child without the parent's consent and then fail to document that in the medical record?
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So you're saying you believe a doctor would vaccinate a child without the parent's consent and then fail to document that in the medical record?


I believe that a nurse might vaccinate a child without consent and then document it.  How many parents read their newborn's medical record?  Written consent is not needed for vaccinations - I never had to sign anything when my son got his shots.  I've read of many NICU moms whose wishes were not respected with regards to vaccination and circumcision, as well as giving formula and pacifiers.


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I believe that a nurse might vaccinate a child without consent and then document it.  How many parents read their newborn's medical record?  Written consent is not needed for vaccinations - I never had to sign anything when my son got his shots.  I've read of many NICU moms whose wishes were not respected with regards to vaccination and circumcision, as well as giving formula and pacifiers.


Before any vaccinations have been given to my kids, the nurse or doctor has always gone over the vaccination record with me, so that I know exactly what my child is there for and what has been given previously. It would have been obvious to me if my kid had gotten vaccinated without my consent.

You are correct that written consent is not required. But federal law requires that the Vaccine Information Sheet is given to parents prior to any vaccination. How many rogue nurses do you think are out there routinely flouting federal law? What would be the point?

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Before any vaccinations have been given to my kids, the nurse or doctor has always gone over the vaccination record with me, so that I know exactly what my child is there for and what has been given previously. It would have been obvious to me if my kid had gotten vaccinated without my consent.
You are correct that written consent is not required. But federal law requires that the Vaccine Information Sheet is given to parents prior to any vaccination. How many rogue nurses do you think are out there routinely flouting federal law? What would be the point?


I don't know what the point would be.  But that's irrelevant, as it is apparently happening.

http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/newhepb.html#Parental

 

 


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#22 of 27 Old 10-20-2011, 04:09 PM
 
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I know plenty of places that do NOT hand out the vaccine information sheets. The one time DS got a shot I knew what it was cause I checked the vials, and I knew everything about it, but no, we did not get any informational papers. NAda. Same goes for the local Air Force Base. My friends who fully vaccinate never get any sheets. All they get is a paper saying call if fever is high call a doc. Sometimes if you are lucky you get a printout that states what diseases the vaccines are for, but never it is said which brand or combo is used. So yeah, I've got to see a place that actually hands out those papers before I believe it. Have never seen one (granted, out of 3 offices I have been I have never seen those sheets, and I admit there are more than just 3 offices in the US).

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I know plenty of places that do NOT hand out the vaccine information sheets. The one time DS got a shot I knew what it was cause I checked the vials, and I knew everything about it, but no, we did not get any informational papers. NAda. Same goes for the local Air Force Base. My friends who fully vaccinate never get any sheets. All they get is a paper saying call if fever is high call a doc. Sometimes if you are lucky you get a printout that states what diseases the vaccines are for, but never it is said which brand or combo is used. So yeah, I've got to see a place that actually hands out those papers before I believe it. Have never seen one (granted, out of 3 offices I have been I have never seen those sheets, and I admit there are more than just 3 offices in the US).



My kids' ped. always gave the info sheets AFTER administering the shots.  Funny how we have to sign a form declining shots but nothing acknowledging the we understand the risks of giving them.


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#24 of 27 Old 10-20-2011, 08:03 PM
 
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I am not sure why people are bickering on this thread (for sport?).  

 

I think having vaccines in schools is a bad idea, and here is why:

 

-schools mess up. I don't think it happens often - but I bet it happens.  Lots of kids, not so many adults around, misplaced forms....   A true story:  last year my daughters class was receiving a vax for something or other.  They called her name, she went into the gym (where they were doing the vaccines) and she told them she was not supposed to receive the vax.  They had to hunt up the paperwork, but if she had not spoken up she might have received a vax.  

 

-it removes the confidentiality of the who is vaccinated and who is not.  Vaccines are a medical decision - her whole class does not need to know she did not receive one (and while I suspect most of the kids in her class are simply jealous she did not get a jab mischievous.gif we know people can be awful to non-vaxxers, and she does not deserve any flack for what is my decision)

 

-as a parent, I want to have an opportunity to discuss the vaccine with a health care provider and monitor for side effects.  I do think I can do a better job monitoring for reactions than a school with its poor adult to kid ratio.

 

 

I think keeping young kids home on vax day is a good idea.  There are no laws around excused absences here - if there were, I would be quite upset.  

 

Another thing (and this does make me ragey):  Before vax day, they have the nurse come in, do an assembly, and explain all the wonderful things about vaccines and how you are risking death by not getting it.  My daughter interpretation.  

 

The health unit frequently reschedules vax day, or comes in a second time to get any kids it missed the first time - so the thing take 2 days.   Three if you want to skip assembly day.  The whole thing is a giant PITA!  Some vaxxes (Guardasil) require booster so you get to skip school again or worry that your child will be a rare  "oops"

 

 

 

 

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#25 of 27 Old 10-20-2011, 10:06 PM
 
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kathymuggle, it sounds like a student would have to miss 7 to 9 days in the school year just to avoid vaccine indoctrination and the three Gardasil shots. Not cool. Seven if they only have one assembly, nine if they have an assembly before each dose.

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#26 of 27 Old 10-20-2011, 11:11 PM
 
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The military screwed up hubby's paperwork and he's been vax'd like 3-4x the normal person against his wishes because THEY misplaced his proof of vaccinations. They tested his immunities prior and found he was already immune to everything they were going to try and give him outside of the Anthrax vax. They vax'd him anyway... over and over.

While I can say this is NOT a school it is a major organization and accidents are totally possible. My daughter attended public school (for kicks... her idea) for about a month last year and she said they are so tough on kids for the "obesity epidemic." She's skinny and felt AWFUL! If they employ the same guilt tactics to make people/kids make decisions based on fear or emotions I can only imagine the troubles down the line. I am all for a persons right to chose for their child. But, this whole thing just sounds bad. School nurses IMHO are not doctors and if I think my daughter is enjoying a nap after school and find her dead in her bed (worst case scenario) I would be so pissed... Losing my daughter and not being able to sue the school would mess me up royally.

What's next? Involuntary circ at hospitals? Seriously! Pro or anti anything, someone coming in and telling you how to raise your kid is just plain intrusive and wrong. Doing anything to a child that could potentially change their entire lives or damage them without at least making sure the parent knows or has consent?! Way to rip out our parental rights and stomp on them.

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#27 of 27 Old 10-21-2011, 09:16 AM
 
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An idea just came to me.....you could get one of those medical alert bracelets, with a charm that says "no vaccines". It could be something pretty that looks like jewelry. Or for a boy, maybe a dog-tag type of chain necklace, or a watch with "no vaccines" on it. Something to wear, to help prevent the "oops" mistake vaccinations.

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