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#1 of 18 Old 11-03-2011, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I was just surfing the web and a found this on the NVIC site, If you Vaccinate They have a downloadable pdf brochure.  So tempting to print some of these up and leave them at the park district, doctors offices, etc.  Most parents don't know that they can report a reaction or even what to look for and when they call the doctor they are dismissed by the nursing staff.  Until we have honest reporting, we will have a have safe vaccines. 


Done with diapers!!

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#2 of 18 Old 11-04-2011, 09:10 AM
 
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Our pediatrician gives us a form from the CDC describing the vaccination, typical side effects, and then extreme side effects. There is information about who should get the vax, who shouldn't and the Vaccine Injury Comp program, and includes this "Or you can file this report through the VAERS
website at www.vaers.hhs.gov, or by calling
1-800-822-7967."

 

I've lived in two states and received these forms from peds in both states, so I am sure it is pretty widespread practice. 


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#3 of 18 Old 11-05-2011, 05:41 PM
 
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We get a printed page with every vaccine, as well.  General info, reactions to watch for, and how to report.

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#4 of 18 Old 11-07-2011, 02:57 PM
 
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#5 of 18 Old 11-07-2011, 06:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miriam View Post

Few people bother to read, let alone ask for the VIS.  This is why people are so alarmed to know they have a choice or that vaccines can injure a child or even to report the reaction. 

 

Few people ask questions. When a reaction does happen, few know what to do. Not everyone is so educated. It is not the norm.

 



Can you support this?  I think most parents read the material given to them with every medicine prescribed to their child.  I don't know any parents who wouldn't.  Vaccinations are medicines like any other, and I think most parents would read the literature. I sure always have.

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#6 of 18 Old 11-08-2011, 02:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by carmel23 View Post



Can you support this?  I think most parents read the material given to them with every medicine prescribed to their child.  I don't know any parents who wouldn't.  Vaccinations are medicines like any other, and I think most parents would read the literature. I sure always have.



I don't have stats or data, but I can tell you most of the mom's I know don't even know what vaccines their children get at each appt. They just got their "shots". And these women researched the hell out of what carseat/stroller/crib to get- but when it comes to medicine stuff they "trust their doctor".

And IMO, those "what you need to know" 1 page info sheets they give out at the doctor do not equal informed consent.

 

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#7 of 18 Old 11-08-2011, 03:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by littlec View Post



I don't have stats or data, but I can tell you most of the mom's I know don't even know what vaccines their children get at each appt. They just got their "shots". And these women researched the hell out of what carseat/stroller/crib to get- but when it comes to medicine stuff they "trust their doctor".

And IMO, those "what you need to know" 1 page info sheets they give out at the doctor do not equal informed consent.

 


And if you have a doctor that you have a good relationship with and trust, there is nothing wrong in trusting an expert.

 

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#8 of 18 Old 11-08-2011, 07:34 PM
 
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Carmel23, I am one of those people who vaccinated without a second thought. My son, who just turned 9 today love.gif was completely vaccinated up until age 5. I never questioned vaccines back then, and I suspect many parents don't either.

 

Now, I'm the complete opposite, and I question everything!

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#9 of 18 Old 11-08-2011, 07:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by WildKingdom View Post


And if you have a doctor that you have a good relationship with and trust, there is nothing wrong in trusting an expert.

 



I agree with this statement, but here's the catch--who qualifies as an expert? There are experts on both sides of the issue.


 
 
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#10 of 18 Old 11-08-2011, 07:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post





I agree with this statement, but here's the catch--who qualifies as an expert? There are experts on both sides of the issue.


Personally I would consider an individual whose knowledge is solely gained by Internet research to be knowledgeable but certainly not an expert.
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#11 of 18 Old 11-08-2011, 08:30 PM
 
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Why did you just write that?  Don't you know there are doctors, scientists, and researchers who question vaccines? Real experts on BOTH sides of the debate. I don't know where you got the idea that I was talking about some dufus off the internet.

 

 Am I allowed to trust a pediatrician who also questions vaccines? They do exist, you know. Or, can I only trust your approved pediatrician who supports vaccines? This is what I meant by my first post. Who gets to decide who is an expert, when there are practicing doctors on BOTH sides (and many doctors are in between, such as those who support a delayed schedule.) 

When there are experts on both sides (actual doctors, not just internet researchers duh.gif) what do you do? Can I trust the doctor I choose?

 

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#12 of 18 Old 11-08-2011, 08:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

Why did you just write that?  Don't you know there are doctors, scientists, and researchers who question vaccines? Real experts on BOTH sides of the debate. I don't know where you got the idea that I was talking about some dufus off the internet.

 

 Am I allowed to trust a pediatrician who also questions vaccines? They do exist, you know. Or, can I only trust your approved pediatrician who supports vaccines? This is what I meant by my first post. Who gets to decide who is an expert, when there are practicing doctors on BOTH sides (and many doctors are in between, such as those who support a delayed schedule.) 

When there are experts on both sides (actual doctors, not just internet researchers duh.gif) what do you do? Can I trust the doctor I choose?

 


Good gracious you are reading far deeper into my comment than was intended. First you are assuming that you know my opinion on vaccinations but that really isn't important.

Of course you should trust your doctor's opinion - can't see why anyone would see a doctor that they didn't trust in the first place. But more than a few times I have read posts here of people who claim to be "experts" on one thing or another having done nothing more than some research on google (and I was certainly directing my comment at you - just replying to your comment). I am very well aware that not all doctors agree on the safety and effectiveness of vaccines and I can see and agree with some of what both sides say at times.
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#13 of 18 Old 11-08-2011, 09:57 PM
 
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I don't have stats or data, but I can tell you most of the mom's I know don't even know what vaccines their children get at each appt. They just got their "shots". And these women researched the hell out of what carseat/stroller/crib to get- but when it comes to medicine stuff they "trust their doctor".

And IMO, those "what you need to know" 1 page info sheets they give out at the doctor do not equal informed consent.

 



I agree that they are not informed consent. Why they say we are giving you the "BLAH BLAH BLAH" vaccine today, I can see that most parents *might* just nod (bobble head!).  But I think most parents on MDC don't do this.  I sure don't!  And we mostly vaccinate.  But you *bet* I read everything they give me, for each child, and pay attention.  We decline certain vaccines, and delay others.  But not because we fear the vaccines.

 

It is a DRUG they are injecting into my child, and like any medicine, there are risks. 

 

But to assume that parents who don't have a huge debate about vaccines with their peds. don't know that vaccines can be damaging, or potentially dangerous in a very few cases, seems false. 


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#14 of 18 Old 11-10-2011, 12:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by carmel23 View Post



I agree that they are not informed consent. Why they say we are giving you the "BLAH BLAH BLAH" vaccine today, I can see that most parents *might* just nod (bobble head!).  But I think most parents on MDC don't do this.  I sure don't!  And we mostly vaccinate.  But you *bet* I read everything they give me, for each child, and pay attention.  We decline certain vaccines, and delay others.  But not because we fear the vaccines.

 

It is a DRUG they are injecting into my child, and like any medicine, there are risks. 

 

But to assume that parents who don't have a huge debate about vaccines with their peds. don't know that vaccines can be damaging, or potentially dangerous in a very few cases, seems false. 



Are you implying that my statement above is false? Or that it's hard for you to believe  that it happens? I think there's quite a bit in between having a "huge debate" with your doctor about vaccines and not knowing what they were vaccinated for.

 

I do agree that the women on MDC are far more educated on the subject than most of the parents I encounter in day to day life. That's why when I'm questioning something, I like to see what "the other side" here thinks, because even if I come to a different conclusion, I will at least be given more than "vaccines save lives; anyone who deviates from the CDC schedule is anti-vaccine and horrible!"

 


"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." ~Mark Twain

 


 
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#15 of 18 Old 11-10-2011, 07:05 AM
 
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It's just that not all of us are that touchy-feely when we approach our medical decisions.  My very nice physician and her very nice nurse, both of whom I trusted for a long time, have severely botched some facts on vaccinations to the extent that they presented a completely inaccurate catch-up vaccination schedule for my children.  "Doctor" doesn't equal "expert."  And any genuine critical thinker knows to consult with multiple sources before deciding on the course of treatment to which they're willing to consent.     

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildKingdom View Post


And if you have a doctor that you have a good relationship with and trust, there is nothing wrong in trusting an expert.

 



 

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#16 of 18 Old 11-10-2011, 08:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carmel23 View Post

Our pediatrician gives us a form from the CDC describing the vaccination, typical side effects, and then extreme side effects. There is information about who should get the vax, who shouldn't and the Vaccine Injury Comp program, and includes this "Or you can file this report through the VAERS
website at www.vaers.hhs.gov, or by calling
1-800-822-7967."

 

I've lived in two states and received these forms from peds in both states, so I am sure it is pretty widespread practice. 



My kids' ped. always gave me the info sheets AFTER administering the shots, and my son was fully vaccinated for 5 years with the same ped, so that's a LOT of shots I knew nothing about until after they were given.

 

I've also never heard of a doctor making sure that a parent reads each form before consenting to each vaccine, and for the early ones, it's something like 5 vaccines for 8 or 9 illnesses, right?  I doubt many doctors are concerned with their patients understanding the diseases, risks and benefits before giving the shots,

 


A, jammin.gif mama to a boy (2005) and a girl (2009)
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#17 of 18 Old 11-11-2011, 05:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post

It's just that not all of us are that touchy-feely when we approach our medical decisions.  My very nice physician and her very nice nurse, both of whom I trusted for a long time, have severely botched some facts on vaccinations to the extent that they presented a completely inaccurate catch-up vaccination schedule for my children.  "Doctor" doesn't equal "expert."  And any genuine critical thinker knows to consult with multiple sources before deciding on the course of treatment to which they're willing to consent.     

 


I agree.  

 

Doctors see many, many patients.  Is there ever a true personalization with each patient?  I can see this being the case in very small practices, but I don't believe this to be the norm.   From my experience (of course not speaking of all doctors, just my own experience with mainstream), doctors just use "blanket" medical advice when it comes to vaccines and apply it to all children and believe they will all react the same way. I just don't agree with that, and it's not personalized to me. (I do, however, understand that that is what they are taught in med school and believe it's the best course of prevention.  I just personally do not.) Plus, doctors do make mistakes.  I think it's important for people to research whatever information their doctor is giving them and then come back and ask questions, not to just put 100% trust in everything they say, no matter how close they are to them. 

 

 


Loving WAHM to my two little handsome DS's, '08 and '12, and loving wife to DH, '07love.gif

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#18 of 18 Old 11-11-2011, 02:16 PM
 
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I am not sure what the debate is over???  headscratch.gif

 

I liked the pamphlet the Op linked to.  Works for me.

 

I have not immunized in a long time (since my now almost 16 yr old was a baby) and I remember the pamphlet they gave me was lame.

 

I decided to look up pamphlets in Ontario for vaxxing and they are still lame.  Here is an info sheet:

 

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/pub/immun/immunization.html

 

It does not cover who should not get vaccines, nor does it cover the stats on the chances of serious reactions and what is normal and what is not in terms of reactions.  I wish they would.  I don't think they should whitewash information for parents. 

 

Carmel - the form you listed looks better than mine. It is lacking on how many cases of measles, mumps, and rubella are actually floating around.   It is a little concerning poster are mentioning getting it after the vax, though, and this is not the first time I have heard this.

 

 

 

 

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