Are getting no vaccines right for us? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 109 Old 01-13-2012, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am a first time mom and my son is now 15 months old and has had no vaccines. I was fortunate to find a Dr. that would let us decide when and if we choice to vaccinate. At first I was going to just delay vaccinating but now the more research that I have done the more it has made me not want to vaccinate at all. But at the same time I don't want to expose my son to something that might hurt him. I feel torn with what I feel is right and what society has made me believe is right. How have you dealt with making your decision and how has it affected your family? How have you dealt with other peoples negative comments, etc. Did you regret your decision to not vaccinate?

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#2 of 109 Old 01-13-2012, 06:42 PM
 
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i have never regretted my decision not to vax my kids... it was the best thing i ever did NOT do for my kids.  and if someone doens't like my choice for MY kids, thats THEIR problem not mine.  And every child needs some kind of contact with daily germs/bacteria to build resistance...are there any outbreaks of anything in  your area? keeping your child nutritionally fit is key for fighting illness as well as EBF..do you breastfeed? 

here is a link to the inserts so you can see the poison they deem is "safe" to inject into your child:

http://vactruth.com/vaccine-inserts/

Here are some things to consider about vaccinating....good luck and keep posting with questions.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding about vaccination:

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices 1/18 DVD, By Sherri J. TENPENNY-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OORHqEedtUY



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/pink-chapters.htm

http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552&q

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6351515212287981735&hl=en

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/G/cases&deaths.pdf


WHO GRAPH-http://apps.who.int/immunization_monitoring/en/globalsummary/timeseries/tsincidencepol.htm


Beyond Conformity Resources Page- http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/resources

Do you have a quick-fire summary?- http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/questions#

Inside Vaccines- http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/

http://het.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/05/04/0960327111407644.full.pdf+html
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/G/cases&deaths.pdf

http://vaers.hhs.gov/index

http://www.thinktwice.com/sids.htm

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#3 of 109 Old 01-14-2012, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much for all that information!  It will be very helpful. As far as I know there are no outbreaks of anything in my area and yes I am still breastfeeding.

 

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#4 of 109 Old 01-14-2012, 05:18 PM
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My kids' pediatrician was also really helpful and comforting when I made my vaccine decisions - both pediatricians, actually, as we moved between kid 1 starting the vaccine schedule and kid 2's birth.  

 

My concerns with kid 1 at 15 months were very different than with kid 2.  I was a graduate student with kid 1, and she wasn't in group care until she was 2.5, so we held off on a lot of vaccines.  That was also 2001, before the unfortunate info came out about fraud in Wakefield's vaccine studies.  We caught her up on the schedule before she started school.  

 

By the time kid 2 came along, I was working full time as a high school teacher.  I'm likely to be near the front lines of any outbreaks of VPDs in my community, if not on them, and I almost definitely will be exposed to all the fun new strains of flu.  Kid 2 has mild asthma, and about 20% of her illnesses develop into pneumonia.  It's best if we just keep her from getting respiratory illnesses as much as possible.  She's had all her shots on time, and has gotten through a couple flu outbreaks without getting it herself.  Maybe that's the vax, or maybe it's luck, but I feel better if we don't take chances.    

 

 

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#5 of 109 Old 01-23-2012, 07:16 AM
 
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I would research disease individually.  How common are they?  How serious are they?  

I would then research individual vaccines - how many have serious adverse reactions?  

 

For me, doing the above was enough to forgo most vaccines.  Others I forgo for different reasons. Please do your own research, though.

 

I would add in a few other things to think about:

 

1.  effectiveness of vaccines (pertussis, imho, is not as effective as I would like)

2.  Herd immunity.  Some people acknowledge the chances of their child getting diptheria is incredibly low, but they vaccinate because they think it will prevent it from coming back.  Others think that is a load of cr@p - and question the ethics of putting an individual child at slight risk  (all vaccines have a risk of complication) for the masses. Some diseases are not contagious (tetanus) and have no  herd immunity implications.

 

At the end of the day, it may come down to what risk can you live with:  the risk your child will get xyz disease and a vaccine might have prevented it?  Or the risk that your child might have a serious reaction to a vaccine or that a vaccine might have contributed to something (say an immune or allergy issue)?  

 

I would like to add, that for me, the lack of certainty around vaccine reactions drives me a little bonkers.  We know vaccine reactions are under-reported - but we do not know by how much.  We know parents (many, many parents) think vaccines played a part in issues their children have - but those stats are not captured as they are anecdotes.  Some may be co-incidence - some may not.  It is so hard to know.  Belief and proof are different things.....

 

At the end of the day, the lack of solid numbers around vax reactions is not something I choose to play with.  At least with diseases, I can crunch the numbers easier, which gives me a better picture of their risks.  

 

 

 

 

 

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#6 of 109 Old 01-23-2012, 07:33 AM
 
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With 20-20 hindsight, if I could do it all over again, I would only have my kids vaccinated with the polio vaccine sometime between the ages of 2-5, and then individual varicella, measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines before adulthood--but ONLY if titers indicated a lack of immunity. (For a boy, I'd do mumps before puberty, as a known complication of catching mumps at puberty is sterility.) If they had an individual diphtheria vaccine I'd do that, but they don't, so I'd probably opt for a DT, but not for an infant.

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#7 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 03:49 AM
 
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Vforba, that is a very interesting article--but is it published anywhere other than whale.to?

 

Whale.to is has an entire section devoted to "proving" that the Holocaust never happened.  Many of their anti-government articles are similarly  full of vicious anti-Semitic diatribes. To my mind, that puts the trustworthiness of the entire site  (and any article contained therein) in question

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#8 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 04:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

Vforba, that is a very interesting article--but is it published anywhere other than whale.to?

 

Whale.to is has an entire section devoted to "proving" that the Holocaust never happened.  Many of their anti-government articles are similarly  full of vicious anti-Semitic diatribes. To my mind, that puts the trustworthiness of the entire site  (and any article contained therein) in question



look up other things written by Dr Robert Mendelsohn-that article was written by him...he writes books and articles on the issue.  It helps to look at who wrote the article, not just where it came from.  Sometimes good articles end up in the wrong media hands, thus making it seem like a bunch of "hooey" to some people.  

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#9 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 05:32 AM
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Dr. Robert Mendelsohn has written several articles on whale.to.  It's not an accident that his stuff is there.  If it's not a bunch of hooey, it will be published somewhere else that doesn't devote so much time and energy to Holocaust denial.  If you have an alternate citation from another website (with no Holocaust denialists), please provide it.  

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Quote:
 


The fact that the article is on whale.to does not make it useless.  

 

This is how articles are formed:

 

state a thesis

make points to back it up

conclude by showing your thesis is right.

 

Articles try to prove points.  That is what they do.

 

In order to decide whether or not the article is useful, you need to look at the points they are making.

 

The article in question cited JAMA (a very respected medical journal).  Did it state and interpret the stats correctly?  I have no idea - I did not look into it.  I was not overly impressed with the article as it did not state where in JAMA it got its information from (thus making it very hard to verify) - but I could still look if I felt so inclined.

 

According to many whale.to denies the Holocaust (I, personally, have not checked).  I think this is separate from whether it is produces decent articles on vaccination.    I could be a total UAV  (insert nasty word of choice) but If I say 2+2 = 4, and can prove it, I am am still right.  

 

I have no issues with people boycotting whale.to on ethical grounds, but to say whale.to denies the Holocaust therefore everything it says on this totally separate subject is incorrect makes little sense.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#11 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 06:52 AM
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If a source's analysis on whether or not the Holocaust happened is so blatantly out-of-sync with reality, there's reason to doubt the rest of their analysis as well.  Citing (referring to) an article in a reputable source does not make the article reputable itself.  

 

Plus, a bunch of us won't go to whale.to because we refuse to support Holocaust denialists by clicking on their site.  

 

If the article actually contains a thoughtful and accurate analysis, those ideas will have found a home elsewhere as well.  

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#12 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 07:10 AM
 
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Hey guys,

Please don't reference this website anymore. I need to check with the admin to find out what happened, but this website was put on our censored list because it's a hate site. I'm removing the original reference to this site and would appreciate it if we don't send any more traffic over to this hate site.

Mi vida loca: full-time WOHM, frugalista, foodie wannabe, 10+ years of TCOYF 

 

R-E-S-P-E-C-T spells BRAND NEW User Agreement!!

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#13 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 08:46 AM
 
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nm  

 

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#14 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 12:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stik View Post

If a source's analysis on whether or not the Holocaust happened is so blatantly out-of-sync with reality, there's reason to doubt the rest of their analysis as well.  Citing (referring to) an article in a reputable source does not make the article reputable itself.  

 

Plus, a bunch of us won't go to whale.to because we refuse to support Holocaust denialists by clicking on their site.  

 

If the article actually contains a thoughtful and accurate analysis, those ideas will have found a home elsewhere as well.  



I agree with you on 2 out of 3 points--that's got to be a record for us!!clap.gif

 

It's your last point I don't agree with.  Thoughtful and accurate analyses are dismissed all the time by those whose profits are threatened by them. I'm assuming you've seen enough of this yourself that I don't need to provide examples.

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#15 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 12:41 PM
 
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No - he has written several articles that whale.to has taken and posted on their site. They do this with many articles written by many different people at many different times. This doesn't mean the author wrote it for that website, nor that the author advocates anything on that website. Dr. Mendelsohn died in 1988....Im pretty sure Whale.to did not exsist in 1988.

 

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Originally Posted by stik View Post

Dr. Robert Mendelsohn has written several articles on whale.to.  It's not an accident that his stuff is there.  If it's not a bunch of hooey, it will be published somewhere else that doesn't devote so much time and energy to Holocaust denial.  If you have an alternate citation from another website (with no Holocaust denialists), please provide it.  



 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#16 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 12:43 PM
 
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Okay, I looked up Dr. Robert Mendelsohn.  He died in 1988, so he obviously had no say on whether or not any of his work appears on whale.to.

 

Here's what Wikipedia had to say about him: Robert S. Mendelsohn (1926 – 1988) was an American pediatrician who criticized his profession, inveighing against pediatric practice, obstetric orthodoxy and the effect of the preponderance of male obstetricians, and vaccination. He also opposed water fluoridationcoronary bypass surgery, licensing of nutritionists, and the routine use of X-rays.

For 12 years, Mendelsohn was an instructor at Northwestern University Medical College, and was associate professor of pediatrics and community health and preventive medicine at the University of Illinois College of Medicine for another 12 years.

From 1981 to 1982, Mendelsohn was president of the National Health Federation (NHF). He also served as National Director of Project Head Start's Medical Consultation Service (a position he was later forced to resign after criticizing the public school system), and as Chairman of the Medical Licensing Committee of Illinois.

He often spoke at NHF conventions and produced a newsletter and a syndicated newspaper column, both called The People's Doctor. He appeared on over 500 television and radio talk shows. In 1986, the National Nutritional Foods Association gave Mendelsohn its annual Rachel Carson Memorial Award for his "concerns for the protection of the American consumer and health freedoms."

Mendelsohn considered himself a "medical heretic." One of his books charged that "Modern Medicine's treatments for disease are seldom effective, and they're often more dangerous than the diseases they're designed to treat"; that "around ninety percent of surgery is a waste of time, energy, money and life"; and that most hospitals are so loosely run that "murder is even a clear and present danger."

***************************************************

 

He wrote several books, but this one jumps out at me:  Male Practice:  How Doctors Manipulate Women

http://www.amazon.com/Male-Practice-Robert-S-Mendelsohn/dp/0809259745

Having had several doctors offer me antidepressants (when I wasn't the least bit depressed, but had undiagnosed Hashimoto's) and valium for my "nerves" (when I wasn't the least bit nervous but had had one really nasty migraine), I certainly applaud this book.

Hmm.  So far I kinda like this guy.

Quackwatch doesn't have anything more illuminating to say about him than Wikipedia, but is bitterly critical nonetheless: "Robert S. Mendelsohn, M.D. (1926-1988) engaged in irresponsible criticism of the medical profession and science-based health care during most of his medical career."

They never bother to explain how any of his criticism is irresponsible, implying that the very fact that he does criticize the said medical profession and science-based health care is irresponsible in and of itself.

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#17 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 01:15 PM
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As a mod has now pointed out, linking to whale.to violates the UA, because it is a hate site.  The web is big.  If the info is good, it will be elsewhere.  Can't stop the signal.  

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#18 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 01:27 PM
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I am finding some interesting information about the National Health Federation.  

 

It is (from wikipedia):

 

Quote:
an international health freedom non-profit organization which describes its mission as protecting individuals' rights to use dietary supplements and alternative therapies without government restriction. 

 

 

 

Quote:

the National Health Federation was founded in 1955 by Fred J. Hart, a marketer of radionics devices. Hart founded the NHF after the U.S. Food and Drug Administration compelled his company to cease marketing untested devices for medical treatment. Over the years, the Federation has engaged itself in a wide variety of natural health-related campaigns. According to its website, the NHF fought and won the battle for mandatory inspection of poultry, coordinated a drive to help chiropractors become legally licensed in the United States, waged a campaign against water fluoridation, and advocated legislative recognition of acupuncture in the United States.[1]

The Federation began producing expos in the early 1980s.[2]

In the 1990s, the Federation lobbied to pass the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA), which allowed dietary supplements to be sold without prior testing for safety or effectiveness.[3] The organization has also fought malathion spraying, promoted claims that vaccines were dangerous,[4] and continues to oppose water fluoridation.[5]

 

I didn't know what radionics was, so I looked that up too:

 

 

 

Quote:
Radionics is the use of blood, hair, a signature, or other substances unique to the person as a focus to supposedly heal a patient from afar.[1] The concept behind radionics originated in the early 1900s with Albert Abrams (1864–1924), who became a millionaire by leasing radionic machines which he designed himself.[2] Radionics is not based on any scientific evidence, and contradicts the principles of physics and biology and as a result it has been classed as pseudoscience and quackery by most physicians.[3] The United States Food and Drug Administration does not recognize any legitimate medical uses for such devices.[1][2][3]

 

So, in summary, this man who says you don't need vaccines also says the FDA should inspect the chickens you eat, but not your dietary supplements - they want you to buy those whether o not they are safe or effective.  He headed a non-profit organization with a name that makes it sound kind of like a federal agency.  This npo was originally founded to lobby for this one guy's right to pretend to cure people of illness from great distances.  He did all these things voluntarily.  

 

I'm unimpressed.

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#19 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 01:59 PM
 
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Disclaimer.  I am a scientist and understand the desire to rely on data to resolve the vaccine debate.  Another post mentioned the fact that it is impossible to conduct clinical trials on children in order to test the effects of vaccines.  This means that any studies of this kind are epidemiological and will never provide enough evidence for or against vaccines.  The best thing you can do is examine the research yourself and make your own logical conclusion.  Look for independent studies, look up the citations in listed the bibliography, research the authors’ background and funding, if an article cites CDC data, look up the data yourself and see if it supports the claim.  Remember, you are the expert when it comes to your child and his/her health, you are intelligent and capable of making choices for him/her based on research of VALID information and your own instinct.  

Those who choose not to vaccinate are regarded as ignorant and reckless, which couldn’t be further from the truth.  Everyone who faces this decision goes through an internal struggle between trusting the conventional “wisdom” and protecting the health of a child.  My son is 2-and-a-half and has not had one vaccination.  Before he was born, I did a great deal of research and continue to do so.  I believe that by choosing not to vaccinate, I am protecting his health to the best of my ability.  I am not against vaccines as a concept, but I have major problems with the contents of the vaccines in their current form and the volume of vaccines that are administered in a typical doctor visit.   

Breastfeeding eliminates the need for early vaccination.  If you are able to breastfeed, your child will receive your immunity.  In fact, the immune factors increase dramatically as the child becomes more mobile (around 1 year of age).  Since my son has stopped breastfeeding, I have made a commitment to continuously boost his immune system.  I found a doctor with a background in homeopathy who shared my philosophy.  I make sure he doesn’t eat a lot of refined sugar, refined grains, or processed food.  He eats yogurt or kefir instead of milk because it is easier to digest.  He has never had an ear infection or any illness other than fever or cold which always went away within a day or two.  

I have had a number of conversations with friends about this - some understand completely and support my choice, others are skeptical.  Some people are appalled and not always polite when they find out my son does not have vaccinations.  I have to resist the urge to try to “educate” someone and simply explain that.  

I personally never had vaccinations and I have never been to a doctor for illness or received any antibiotics.  
The ingredients in the vaccines and the known side effects are enough to keep me away.  
We use diet, supplements, and homeopathy to boost his immune system.  
We believe his body is strong enough to fight off illness and we choose to make it stronger rather than give it a crutch.
(to those who say we are endangering herd immunity)
There are better ways to prevent these diseases from spreading (long enough maternity leave for mothers to breastfeed their babies, providing adequate health care to ALL people, reducing poverty, improving air and water quality)
Making a parent take a chance with their child’s health for the sake of herd immunity is wrong.

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#20 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 02:17 PM
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What field of science do you work in?  What evidence have you found to support the value of a homeopathic approach to boosting immunity?  

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#21 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 03:01 PM
 
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Robert S. Mendelsohn also published a book called "How to Raise a Healthy Child... In Spite of Your Doctor," I bought a copy off Amazon.  It´s from 1984 so a lot of stuff is outdated, particularly when he talks about vax, (old schedule and diff vaxes) but the overall theme is about how to avoid unnecessary drugs/procedures. 

 

Some of the major topics:

"Drs. Aren´t Taught the Importance of Nutrition" "Drs. Rarely Investigate the Drugs They Use" "Why Weight Charts are Misleading" "Childbirth Should be a Natural Process" "Don´t Start Solid Foods Too Early" "Children Cry Because they Have Problems"

 

And then he goes into what the parents should do for whatever ailment your kid has, before you call the pedi.

 

On vax he wrote:

 

Quote:
1. There is no convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease...
2. It is commonly believe that the Salk vaccine was responsible for halting the polio epidemics that plaqued American children in the 1940´s and 1950´s. If so, why did the epidemics also end in Europe, where polio vaccine was not so extensively used?...
3. There are significant risks associated with every immunization and numerous contraindications that may make it dangerous for the shots to be given to your child....
4. While the myriad of short-term hazards of most immunizations are known (but rarely explained), no one knows the long-term consequences of injecting foreign proteins into the body of your child....
5. There is a growing suspicion that immunization against relatively harmless childhood diseases may be responsible for the dramatic increase in autoimmune diseases since mass inoculations were introduced.

He does have some references listed in the back of the book, but does not cite specifics in the chapters.

 

He then discusses what to do if your child should have a vpd...

 

It´s a pretty interesting book, (although some things outdated), especially to hear his perspective as a dr. who practiced for many decades, many decades ago. His attitude towards measles is fairly non-chalant (I know sometimes people bring up the brady bunch episode about measles and it being a normal childhood disease back then), he additioanlly wrote: " I would consider the risks of associated with the measles vaccination unacceptable even if there were convincing evidence that the vaccine works. There isn´t."

 

I guess it was a good thing he wrote this at the end of his career/life!!

 

too bad now everyone here will associate his name with a hate website...

 

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#22 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 03:02 PM
 
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sorry, double post! oops

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#23 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

 

too bad now everyone here will associate his name with a hate website...

 



Or with deceptive marketing practices for unregulated dietary supplements.  It's too bad he didn't care enough about his patients to avoid involving himself in efforts to protect quackery and deception.  

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#24 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 04:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stik View Post



Or with deceptive marketing practices for unregulated dietary supplements.  It's too bad he didn't care enough about his patients to avoid involving himself in efforts to protect quackery and deception.  



He died in 1988... published 3 books in the 80s... 

 

according to wikipedia - 

 

 

 

 

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For 12 years, Mendelsohn was an instructor at Northwestern University Medical College, and was associate professor of pediatrics and community health and preventive medicine at the University of Illinois College of Medicine for another 12 years.

From 1981 to 1982, Mendelsohn was president of the National Health Federation (NHF). He also served as National Director of Project Head Start's Medical Consultation Service (a position he was later forced to resign after criticizing the public school system), and as Chairman of the Medical Licensing Committee of Illinois.

 

when did he deceptively market unregulated diet supplements??? are you thinking about mercola??

 

 

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#25 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 04:28 PM
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As head of the National Health Federation.  

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#26 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 04:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stik View Post

As head of the National Health Federation.  



Ok, I did some quick searching... he was head of NHF 1981-82, theres some info about NHF's "Vitamin Bill" in the 70s, so what exactly did he do 1981-1982, can you fill me in??... also, the only sites I've found are on "quackwatch.com" clearly unhappy with many of his positions...

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Originally Posted by stik View Post



Or with deceptive marketing practices for unregulated dietary supplements.  It's too bad he didn't care enough about his patients to avoid involving himself in efforts to protect quackery and deception.  



 

Could you please specify exactly which dietary supplements, and exactly what the deceptive marketing practice was?

 

Would you also like to comment on the deceptive marketing practices currently used by the pharmaceutical industry?

 

whether or not a product is regulated means nothing if the regulating body is corrupt.

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#28 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 05:34 PM
 
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I tried posting earlier but my comment is being held for moderation because im new, even though ive been posting fine up until now...

 

I was going to say I did a quick search and only found reference to NHF "vitamin bill" in the 70s... so what exactly did Mendelsohn do in for NHF 1981-1982 to deceptively market dietary supplements?? (the only websites I found that info on in regards to this were quackwatch sites, not exactly unbiased based on what they would think of Mendelsohn's published opinions)...

 

so if a dr. is/was anti-vax or even questioned vax, and not selling supplements, and not an Aids denialist, can we entertain his points?

 

 

 

I hope this doesnt cause a double post, ill try to delete it if i can, assuming this post isnt held for moderation too...

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#29 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post



 

Could you please specify exactly which dietary supplements, and exactly what the deceptive marketing practice was?

 

Would you also like to comment on the deceptive marketing practices currently used by the pharmaceutical industry?

 

whether or not a product is regulated means nothing if the regulating body is corrupt.



 

But NOT regulating a product solves the manufacturer all kinds of time and trouble. They can cram whatever they want into some capsules, plaster the container with unproven claims, and make scads of money from people who seriously believe that whatever it is will make them better, behave in a predictable way inside the body, and not interact with their other supplements or medications.  I don't trust supplements AT ALL.  

 

If you have something to say about deceptive marketing practices being used by drug companies, you should go ahead and say it.  I haven't looked at any vax marketing materials lately (or ever), so at this time I have no comment.    

 

 

 

Quote:
I was going to say I did a quick search and only found reference to NHF "vitamin bill" in the 70s... so what exactly did Mendelsohn do in for NHF 1981-1982 to deceptively market dietary supplements?? 

 

In my opinion, anyone who got involved with the NHF after that point knew what the organization had done and why, and thus actively participated in perpetuating supplement-related scams.   Honestly, anyone who got involved with an organization created by someone upset about a ban on radionics deserves some very serious scrutiny, even without the vitamin bill issue.  The alleged goal of the NHF is to "protect consumer's rights" to buy and use unregulated supplements - i.e., to make sure companies can sell them to you.

 

 

 

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so if a dr. is/was anti-vax or even questioned vax, and not selling supplements, and not an Aids denialist, can we entertain his points?

 

You can entertain any points you want, but the criteria above are a reasonable starting point for identifying people whose ideas I am willing to consider.  

 

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#30 of 109 Old 01-24-2012, 06:07 PM
 
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Ok, maybe you can show me where Mendelsohn made profit off of enabling supplement scams.

 

So you don't trust any vitamin or supplement, which are totally optional - you choose if you are interested in it, choose to buy whatever kind you want, choose to take it, choose how to take it...

 

but you trust vax - which are so shoved down our throats it is practically mandatory?

 

Guess I feel about vax like you feel about supplements. Fair enough. At least you don't have to fight with anyone about your option to not take a multi-vitamin, or get a school exemption because you don't want to give your kid vitamin C.

 

I know there are lots of vitamin/supplements scams out there. I know it's possible to do plenty of harm by ingesting too many or the wrong supplements. But at the end of the day it is optional. 

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